1. Having no luck AND getting ICED....

2. I've been thinking about this the last few days while hunting and seeing nothing....

Regardless of the rifle>>>WHAT CARTRIDGE has given you the MOST 1 shot DRTs?? (drop right there) Not one shot kills with death run et.al.>>>>> 1 shot 1 drop.

I've killed deer with cartridges ranging from 243/6mm thru 8mm RM. I've had a few days to reminisce over the last 40+ yrs of deer hunting and deer reactions. I've had DRT with many or most cartridges BUT...

FOR ME, I've had more DRTs with the 7 RM - 139 HBTSP @ 3300 fps.

How about for YOU??

223AI

ALL of them at one time or another....

270 Win with 130 gr bullets

264 Win and 140 Partitions.

A Point of Order!! Does NOT answer the question! Smart Alec

In my opinion DRT's are function of bullet placement much more than bullet/headstamp. Hit CNS/or big bone and DRT's are the result.

Mule Deer - 7x57 154 grain Hornady

Whitetail - 250-3000 87 grain Speer

True. But I've HAD DRT with chest shots not CNS.

Regardless....

Mine was the 300WinMag. Old stock 150gr Ballistic Tips at 3,400fps over IMR4831. Lungs, shoulder, quartering-to, quartering-away, it didn't really seem to matter. I think I had 16 of 17 deer drop in their tracks.

Since I used a 30-30 all my life. It's safe to say it's a 30-30.

.270 with 130gr NPts pushed at the top of the range.

.22 magnum.

Perry

270 wsm with federal premium 130gr nbt. 22 instant kills on deer and hogs.

45-70 with 300 grain speer hot core bullets loaded HOT. Never had a deer or bear take a step after being hit.

.270 Win with 130g bullets.

It also hold my "record" for the longest death-run with a well-placed shot though.

-06 But only because 90% of my BG hunting has been with an -06.
But as Jack O'Connor said, If the bullet doesn't go in the right place, it doesn't matter what you are shooting.

22mag??

I'd say a .30-30 with either a 150 or 170 round nose or Silvertip. A .30-30 was my first and only rifle for my first 10 years of hunting and most were bang flops with the Marlin 93. Shot placement probably had more to do with it then the caliber or bullet as back then most were neck shots at short range.

270

How about, "what camo pattern were you wearing when you got the most DRTs?"

260 Rem

For me the 7X57, but it's a matter of I've shot more deer with it than any other.I think ratio's are probably a better indicator and for me the DRT/Kill ratio is a tie between the .223 and the .350 Rem. That should say something about the ability of light fast right there.

Carhartt and orange. It's a special pattern.....

Start Y'ALLs OWN thread!!!!! No smiley face!!

Without a doubt the .30-06 and 150 grain bullets.

Fluorescent orange for sure.

Same for me.

30-06 w/165gr bullets. Close second is a .280 Rem.

Highly underrated.

.30-06 with 150 grain c&c or .270 with 130 grain c&c. I have used both extensively for more than 50 years and I don't remember which. The totals will be close.

Also highly ILLEGAL in Ark.

7mm RM with 150 gr. bullets. Don't think I've ever not had a DRT with that combo.

You didn't ask for legal cartridges.

I guess it was wrong of me to ass u me we used them for LEGAL hunting?? <G>

For me, it was teh 243 Win. With 80 grain bullets and before I was taught to get off the spine and shoulder and tearing stuff up so bad.

But the real answer to your question is simple, its not about the round, its about the placement.

Nothing other than placement will give you what you want every time you want it.

that's easy .243, and that includes through the ribs not high shoulder. death runs are very often short when they do occur. speed kills plain and simple.

300win mag, 180grn interlock loaded to a goal of 2960fps. What I noticed though was that even with the same cartiridge, distance made a difference. Almost every deer shot past 150yrds dropped. Almost every deer shot inside 100yrds ran.

That load also gave me my longest blood trail. 150+yrds on a big doe that was heart shot at 10 yards.

That 300wm was my only centerfire for 14 years, my .257 Rob is quickly catching up, in fact I can only think of three runners with the .257.

30-06, but because it was all I had for the first couple of years I hunted. 3 of 4 were DRT

1 for 1 DRTs with 25-06, 7RM, and 220Swift

If past performance is any indication, I figure on a lot of future DRTs with my 257Wby!

25-06 and 100gr nosler ballistic tips.

Oh, that's an easy one.

Blue jeans & a plaid shirt, hunter orange vest/jacket & hunter orange ball cap/toque.

To the OP:

.243 & 95gr federal fusion.

Close second - 7mm-08 & 120gr TTSX.

300 Savage, Remington 180 grain corelokts.

375 win

30-06 slinging 180's

270 with 150 gr. bullets. Going to try 140's someday.

308 WIN

A.30-06

Jwall I will answer by not answering again

I can't tell you what cartridges have given the most DRT's...but I can tell you what bullets have, for me.

12 ga 2 3/4" lightfield sabot slugs

Your Honor, would you instruct the witness to answer the question ?

Reckon I could guess ?

Toss-up between the 25-06 (in my youth) and the 260 Remington (mature years).

Kaiser Norton

My .264 Win. mag. Hands Down. My 7x57 is not far behind it.

300 WSM and 150gr Interbonds. Killed 15 in two yrs with that rifle and load and they never took a step.

250 Savage

35 Whelan and 7-08

I would have to say the 6.5 swede. Then maybe a toss up between the 243 and 250 savage. The last 2 used lighter bullets,70 and 87 grainers.

I have killed thousands of animals with every caliber from .22 to .45. My experience is that the condition of the animal has more to do with DRT's that the mechanics of any load.

An undisturbed completely unaware animal that is hit in the shoulder/lung area is more likely to drop on the spot than and aware animal shot with anything whatsoever, in the same spot.

DRT's are as easy as your ability to head shoot if anyone cares to be clinical about it, but the majority of hunters will place bullets in the shoulder/lung area, hopefully taking out the heart or major arteries as well.

Some of the very best cartridges are mild with just a touch more caliber beyond adequacy. eg; A .243 is a good deer cartridge but a 6.5x55 Swede or 7x57 with a lightish medium weight cup and core style bullet will record higher percentages of DRT's.

Alternatively, the fast cartridges also demonstrate a jump in percentile such as the 3300fps+ range of cartridges also using cup and core bullets. An eg here would be .257 Weatherby loaded with 87gn Hornady's at 3800fps. Quite Spectacular.

As a cull cartridge, .308 or .30/06 with 150 grainers. .270 with 110's, .300's with 165's etc.

So...what did I really say?

Don't confuse a DRT question with best bullets for bad angles. No worst case scenarios, as is a usual consideration. The question was simpler than that, "What cartridge have you had the most DRT's?"

Hope this helps explain it.

Yep, John it does. I'm glad you checked in too.

Actually I wasn't addressing, head-c n s shots. I thot most everybody knew that a decent hit to the cns meant instant drop.

Also I've experienced the diff between a calm, relaxed animal's reaction compared to 1/more that were JACKED up for whatever cause. A scared or nervous animal has what I'd call adrenaline flowing. They can be TANKS to stop if the cns is not hit.

I was posing a simple question not directed at any particular place of impact.

Some animals simply COLLAPSE w/o being hit in the cns, just don't expect it every time.

I'm not ready to draw a conclusion but you can see the answers cover the gamut.

Thnx.

Happy Birthday, Jwall.

The cartridge that has given me the most bang-flops has been the 7mm/08. Specifically, I used to load the 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip over 42 grains of BL-C2, and it was like 2700 fps of cyanide.

It's interesting that so many have seen similar results from so many different (but comparable) cartridges. Mostly we seem to be talking deer sized stuff.

I wonder do the results change when we move up in animals size? Say, elk and beyond?

.243 100gr Corelokts.

First of all, I suppose the responses prove(indicate) that 'deer' are hunted more than any other big game (?) animal.

Secondly, I would be surprised if 'larger' game did NOT take, need, or require more than 1 shot.

THNX C T.

I am starting to count backward this yr. I'm not going to get any older <G>

Aussie Gun Writer has it pretty well pegged. My experience is far less varied, but may be instructive nonetheless.

I have 2 guns shooting 150 grain Rem PSPCL-- all 30-06, all are pretty consistent bang-floppers. I shoot 165 grain Hornady SP's out of most of the rest. One is a 308 WIN that I download to about 300 Savage levels and the rest are all 30-06. I have one 35 Whelen shooting 200 GR REM SPCL and a 30-30 that shoots Winchester 150 grain PP's.

I would say they all produce fairly consistent DRT, in that either the drop where they stand or you can stand where you shot them and see the toes sticking up in the air.

Of all of them, I am least impressed with the 30-30. I've had trouble with it on-and-off for years. The 35 Whelen is a bit of a flyer as well. You'd think bigger would be better, but I have had my share of runners.

I am certain that there are mechanics as yet fully understood that produce a "DRT". I have consistently pulped the lungs and jellied the heart, but sometimes they run, sometimes they stand there and look at you and sometimes they go back to eating grass. I had one a few years ago that took two through the heart and lungs. I heard the first hit and saw the hair move on his chest. He continued walking, he paused at a fence, and I took another shot-- same spot. He still managed to take a jump over the fence and died in mid-air.

I've used a half dozen or so cartidges on enough deer to have a decent sample size, and the .30-06 150gr cup&core and the 150gr .30-30 are pretty much tied. The 6.5 x 55 is slightly behind, but the sample size is smaller.

For the "speed kills" guys, I have a small sample of four deer: two small bucks, a doe, and a yearling. All were shot behind the shoulder at ranges from 30 to 60 yards with a frangible 100gr bullet from a .257 Roberts at 3100fps MV (2 Speer boat tail, and two Nosler BT's).

There were no exits, and the lungs on all 4 deer were completely destroyed. All exhibited the same behavior at the shot, they humped up, trotted approx. 30 yards, stopped, wobbled for a couple of seconds, went down, then got back up and made 30 yard death dash before piling up. I went to the 117gr Hornady at 2800fps and started getting exits, and the deer started dying quicker.

Also, although there have been no DRT's, I have killed over a dozen deer with the .22 Hornet with 55gr Sierra SMPs at 2500fps and have never had one go further than 40 yards.

.358 Win. on whitetails.

.30-06 with 165gr bullets. However, that's the only centerfire I hunted with for 20 years and killed my first 30 head of game. In the last 30 years, I've hunted with at least 10 other cartridges.

Aussie Gun Writer has it pretty well pegged. My experience is far less varied, but may be instructive nonetheless.

I have 2 guns shooting 150 grain Rem PSPCL-- all 30-06, all are pretty consistent bang-floppers. I shoot 165 grain Hornady SP's out of most of the rest. One is a 308 WIN that I download to about 300 Savage levels and the rest are all 30-06. I have one 35 Whelen shooting 200 GR REM SPCL and a 30-30 that shoots Winchester 150 grain PP's.

I would say they all produce fairly consistent DRT, in that either the drop where they stand or you can stand where you shot them and see the toes sticking up in the air.

Of all of them, I am least impressed with the 30-30. I've had trouble with it on-and-off for years. The 35 Whelen is a bit of a flyer as well. You'd think bigger would be better, but I have had my share of runners.

I am certain that there are mechanics as yet fully understood that produce a "DRT". I have consistently pulped the lungs and jellied the heart, but sometimes they run, sometimes they stand there and look at you and sometimes they go back to eating grass. I had one a few years ago that took two through the heart and lungs. I heard the first hit and saw the hair move on his chest. He continued walking, he paused at a fence, and I took another shot-- same spot. He still managed to take a jump over the fence and died in mid-air.

.222 Remington Magnum--somewhere north of 1,100 animals (scientific collecting). Another 100+ with a .223 Remington.

243 with 70gr speer tnts.

over the head of many.

I once saw a fawn shot with a 12 gauge slug thru both rear hams such that you could see light thru the hole, it was not DRT. This DRT stuff reminds me of "hold my beer and watch this" for some reason.

Well you took the time to stop and watch.

I can't speak for you or anyone else,
In 41yrs of deer hunting I've had many DRTs. Some from CNS hits, others not.

It does happen and obviously with many diff cartridges.

Toss up for me. A 22-250 with 50-60 grain bullets and 243 win with 85 grain bullets. The 22-250 with 60 grain Partitions around 3400 is instant through the lungs or right in the leg. I have killed them with .22, .24, .25, .277, and .30 calibers but the light fast bullets seem to work as fast with the RIGHT shot. If the shot was less than ideal for the smaller calibers I passed the shot. I carry these calibers in an area that the landowner allows the 243/6mm to be the largest calibers we use.

This

i done it with various calibers.shot placement .

I've killed deer with over 40 cartridges, ranging from .221 Fireball to .404 Jeffery and naturally, some have died in their tracks, some have made the mad dash. Thinking back, I have never had a deer take a step with the .284 Win and the old, long discontinued Winchester 125 gr Power Point. Something about that load just makes them come unglued. Guess it's the speed (roughly 3200 fps) combined with a very fragile bullet. Don't think I ever had a pass through with them. Biggest buck I shot with it was about 160 lbs, which is pretty good around here. Most of the recovered "bullets" were shrapnel. I'm a big proponent of exit wounds but with this load, a blood trail was never necessary. Next one I shoot with it might run like a scalded assed ape, but so far they haven't. This load would not be my choice for "big deer" but on our Southern sized deer, it has been poison. Haven't actually hunted with that gun in years but this has made think about digging it out of the safe. I still have about 4 boxes of that precious fodder left.

Have had several DRTs over the years but since I am a constant experimenter and gun trader I don't have any single cartridge with more than 1-2 DRTs and most have been due to CNS hits. The most DRTs I have had with a singe firearm was my old browning 54 cal ML with 3 that I can recall.

Yeah - SCGN I haven't hunted w/ a 7RM in a few yrs.

I have a week +3 days after Christmas left. I may have to dust off that 7 w/139s too.

I've been hunting a 270 and 6.5 Swede. Think I'll switch.

.270

Simple answer to a simple question: 300WM with 180gr NPs.

This...

Still, too many others with similar results to call any one combo a clear winner.

9.3x57 and 9.3x62 Bang-Flop and eat up to the hole. What is not to like?

I used to have a big pile of American Riflemen Magazines. I stumbled across a an article on this subject in an old one, maybe from the 30s. This study had the advantage of being conducted with a huge number of killed deer.

If anyone remembers this article and can reference the results that would be fun. I remember the 30-06 with 150 grain pill was the winner, but obviously the competition was very different back then.

Yes, agreed. When I started this thread, A single winner or so was NOT what I had in mind.

Having been blessed to have multiple rifles/cartridges over the yrs and been able to deer hunt w/them, I've seen the DRTs with TOO many different ones to think only 1-2 cartridges were reliable/repeatable.

Yes---I know that nearly every Center Fire WILL give DRT with a CNS hit. I've had way too many DRTs w/o hitting the cns to know it happens whether we expect it or not.

I've been only curious what others have experienced with their deer rifles.

Of ALL the cartridges named--I've been surprised by ONLY one. I would not have expected that combo to give DRT without a CNS hit.

7x57 with 140 NBT

I like to shoot through both lungs over the heart so to save the heart for table fare. During the decade plus when I was shooting a bunch of deer on annual kill permits, I used many different cartridge combinations culling deer. I've used several combinations with light for caliber bullets loaded to higher velocities which took down deer like a lightning bolt, but most of those combinations destroyed the heart. Using the heavier bullets of several different standard cartridges resulted in more saved hearts with lesser damage, but not quite the same level of DRT. I'm sure there are many outstanding combinations for maximizing meat yield, but the most effective combination I ever experienced during that decade plus culling deer, was from my bear rifle chambered in 375H&H shooting standard velocity 270 to 300gr bullets. I ran a long string of kills with this combination where I shot through both lungs over the heart making for impressive DRT kills while saving the heart for table fare. Most of the other combinations I used, which would equal the DRT performance, tended to destroy the heart causing a fair amount of blood shot meat. Some combinations were absolutely obnoxious in wanton waste. But, even though my bear rifle performed exceedingly well, I no longer use it for a regular deer rifle as it is a bunch of gun to handle day in and day out if you have no intention of shooting anything bigger than a deer.

Best

THNX - Gary AND the other responders who've killed MORE than the average hunter being able to do 'culling' etc on big scale.

Your responses give us an even broader understanding about DRTs and cartridges/bullets that do it frequently.

I appreciate it sincerely.

my 300 wby ,loaded with 200 grain speer bullets,pushed to about 2960fps with a stiff load of H4831 and a 215 fed primer, has up to now had an un blemished record of DRT kills but to be fair Ive used it mostly on mule deer, and rarely have taken shots at over 300 yards, and I doubt the total kill exceeded 12 mule deer that Ive used it on, over the last 45 years..btw its a browning 78 with a 26" length barrel similar to this picture


http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...;header=.30%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data

3 way Tie between 270 winchester,308 and 30-06.

Whatever cartridge I've hit shoulder or spine with.

Unless a bullet strikes one of these areas DRTs are quite unusual in my experience, regardless of cartridge.

Hunted a 243 exclusively my first 5-6 years, then a scattering of calibers and finally settled on a 270. Got in the Gun bidnizz as a street rep for a Dist'r working out side for 5 years & 2 years inside running 6 outside guys. Did a lot of horse trading with my dealers swapping guns and stuff back then. Moved to a 5 state Rgl Sales Rep deal for 6 years and swapped stuff with my dealers. Shot a lot of different guns & calibers in those days from Spring 1976 thru the end of 1988. Scored a huge buy from a dealer who was closing out all of his Speer bullets & bought 70-80+ little yellow box's at an average of 20- 25 cents on the 4 year old wholesale invoice dollar, mostly 270 150gr'ers. Killed a pile of WTails over a 10-15 year period all with that one bullet, head/neck shots, heart/lung shots, spine shots you name it, if I could see fur the critter was mine from any angle, from 10 feet to 400 yards....bang flop.
2nd runnerup would be from a NIB USRAC PF 257Rbts XTR M70 Fwt I bought at the Distr in Oct 1979 that would only shoot 100 gr'ers accurately. Quit using it 25-3000 rounds later after it almost got me killed by a 125lb hog that had been hit 3 times with well placed heart/lung & shouder shots at under 60 yards until a "facial" at a PB range of 20 feet did the final honors as he came for me the 2nd time in a deep briar patch dragging a leg ...and I went back to the 270 and cured that little problem.

Best DRT shooter I got right now is a 270gr Speer over 59gr's of RL15, WLR sparkplug in Privi brass called a 9.3x62. 1st WTail I hit was a 135lb'er with 9" tall spikes at 125+/- yards that was ejected "airborne" from the POI about 35 feet back up the trail he'd just exited.

Best DRT incident I ever had was at about 130-140 yards was with a T3 6.5x55 Swede 120gr Sierra ProHunter over 47gr's RL19, WLR, in Lapua brass that died mid stride and folded in half in place with a hit in the crease that broke the off shouders inside half of the joint, behind a mature dry doe's front shoulder like a busted bag pipe...the bullet did not exit but I didn't need to track her very far either.
Ron

257 Wby And 100 Gr Ttsx @~ 3500 From Near To 600

I am not the only one who has seen REPEATEDLY deer pole axed from a shot in the chest and NOT a CNS hit.

Correct or NOT this has been called the result of 'hydro static' shock. AFAIC - maybe so, maybe no.

In the OP I stated that I've had more DRTs with the 7 RM, 139 HBTSP than any other single cartridge.

After lunch I dug it out, knocked the dust of it, and checked it out. I still had a dozen loads ready for it. I set up a target to 'verify' sight in---BINGO! she's ready.

I intend to 'tote' it this last week of our MG season. Maybe changing rifles/cartridges will change my luck.

This may sound weird but my expereince is between a 12 gauge with buckshot and my 50 cal. muzzleloader. I typically shoot 250 gr. hollow points out of the muzzleloader and they ususlly just go right down. With the muzzleloader they may kick around a little but the deer tend to stay down. With the buckshot they just drop dead. I usually aim for the junction where the head ad neck meet with the shotgun.

+1, but in my favor, it was close to 400 yards off when I hit it, and it was a helluva shot, if I say so myself. Finally found the deer, and when I did find it, it was a short drag to a road. Can't fuss much.

By far the 22 LR. For the last 20 springs or so, it has accounted for several thousand ground squirrels. Nothing else in the safe even merits an honorable mention.

Brother and I would say the 7 STW loaded with the 140g Nosler/Win Combined Tec bullets at 3600 fps, or the old Nosler solid base lead tip at 3800 fps. I or brother have never had a deer take a step when shot with these loads!

30.06 with 150 grain Rem Core-Lokt. The 1st 5 bucks I killed were bang flop!!!!! anywhere from 20 to 200 yrds with an old savage 110, That's all I could afford at the time. I should have kept that old rifle.... Instead I spent 1000s of Dollars looking for that perfect deer rifle, Some look and feel better, but none kill any better....

My experfience with the .22 Magnum was in the early and mid 80s helping during culls in research plots for a university where a buddy attended. The shooting was at night and the shots were close and always in the head. Does and Bucks were taken as they appeared. The meat was donated to local food banks. If you think it would be fun to kill 30 or 40 deer in a night, you should experience the cleaning and quartering process. I was young then and blood thristy as hell and was with a bunch of other young, blood thirsty guys; but killing that many deer at a time has a way of making you stop pulling the trigger. I killed more deer in a weekend than most guys take in their entire hunting career. A .22 Magnum is a one shot drop killer to 75 yards with head shots.

The most DRT shots with a centerfire on whitetails deer would be a 300 WinMag loaded with 150 grain Barnes X. I killed a pile of them in Kansas when doe tags were liberal and deer seemed to be in every field or woodline. We hunted a huge farm owned by an old guy who allowed us to hunt pheasants if we would kill every deer we saw. We filled a ton of tags back then and I don't remember one ever running off when shot through the shoulders when I used that rifle and load.

Perry

Mine was the great 7RM with 150NBTs. I'll probably be back to that combo eventually as I find myself comparing darn near every cart to it

The most would be with a 303 Brit, only because I hunted one for quite a while!
Cat

6MM, I'm not sure how many deer I got with it but I can only recall one that didn't DRT. I sold the 6MM and bought a 280 have many runners, they don't go far but they do run.

I have taken deer with 25-06, 300 Win Mag and 358 Win. The longest shot I've taken was just over 160 yards. I've gotten the quickest kills with my 358 Win using 225 grain NP's. The least effective kill was with my 300 Win Mag at about 60 yards. The small buck ran about the same distance up a hill before expiring.

On one memorable deer hunt, I took a large buck in S. Dakota with my 25-06 at just under 100 yards. The buck was on the far bank of the Little White River. He jumped in the river and made it to a sand bar in the middle before expiring. Needless to say, I got a bit wet dragging it to my side. That said, all were good, humane kills and I have no regret using any of the calibers based on terrain where I was hunting.

me too!!!

30-06 every time I hit one in the spine.

The double lung/heart/liver shots always ran for a few seconds no matter the cartridge chosen.

See a pattern emerging, maybe, that the closer shots no matter the cartridge, unless small, tend to run the deer more. And the smaller 22 magnum is very effective, (my experience agrees). I've had very good luck with the .222 as well. So what's the consensus on perhaps the noise being a contributing factor to making the deer amp up and run?

I see a pattern emerging ,too

Had two lengthy phone conversations with two pals this past week,(one of whom posts here and know his stuff). The conversations centered around this very subject and the objective was the same...namely the focus on cartridge/bullet combo's that gave DRT's with a high degree of reliability.

Listening to their experiences,coupled with my own,and reading this thread reminded me of some things.First is,there really are no cartridge/bullet combos that will reliably, every time. assure DRT's with soft tissue vital hits...... Every time you think you found one, eventually, you are going to have runner, no matter what you are shooting.

One of my chums related a story from this year where a doe did a death run of 168 yards after taking a double lung hit with one of the CF darling bullets from a 7mm Magnum...if any cartridge/bullet combo had the characteristics we normally associate with DRT's and soft tissue hits, this combo had it all. yet,he had a runner.

Another had similar results on a good sized Wyoming mule deer buck at about 400 yards (using a tougher bullet) and that one ran about 80-100 yards.

I have had the same sort of things happen myself with lung shots.

In my own mind the only conclusion I can come to is that there are no cartridges....nor bullets...guaranteed to give you a high percentage of DRT's with double lung hits, even though we will all see them now and then with almost anything.

And if we want them with a higher degree of frequency,at any distance,we had better plan on shots that take bone along the way through vitals and plan on using a bullet capable of penetrating bone going in or coming out of vitals...if we do that, I don't think we will see much difference in what we shoot them with.

.358 Winchester, and must come out of a SAVAGE 99!

Percentage wise, it would be the 30-06, because none have ever gone a step. Next would be the 300 Winmag, since only one has ever gone further than straight to the ground,, and it had no heart left. But my sample size is nit as large as some of you other guys. One deer a year is usually all I shoot -- sometimes two. I AM liking the 6.5 Swede though. That is likely going to become my new favourite.

12 gauge slug from my Model 37. No contest!

Bob

I've said it before, but the only one I"ve ever HEARD of being perfect was 40ish grain HPs in 220 swift driven hard, and shot in the flanks.

I have no proof other than the family is well respected, and known to tell the truth

The one the right has been, knock-on-wood, 100% DRT on every thing so far:



The 286 NPT makes a bullet size hole going in, straight thru every time, an inch & half round hole exiting and takes out everything in between!

I imagine we're talking killing shots not those hit on the edges.

I am 50% with the .358 Win and 225g NPT. One ran ~50 yards the other dropped in his tracks.

50% with a .356 Win. 250g PP and 200g PP Same as above.

100% with a 300 H&H shooting 180g Hornady Interlocks.

50% with a .284 Win. 150g Win PP drop dead. 120g NBT ran `35 yards.

~75% with a 30-06. Various bullets, but seemed to go farther when shot with 180g NPT at 2650 fps.

90% 270 Win. various 130g bullets, but did have a 130g Sierra fail to penetrate a mule deer bucks shoulder at 100 yards. And 130g NBT fail to penetrate more than half way on a buck antelope, but did eventually kill him. In other words, when they got in they killed well. I just remembered an antelope that went 25 yard, ~. After being hit through the heart with a 130g Sierra Game King.

100% with a .257 Roberts. Various bullets.

100% 300 Win Mag with 180g PP, Antelope buck.

I have only killed one elk so far. It was with a 30-06 and 165g Speer Hotcore. 100% on kill 0% on DRT. The cow took a leep and then rolled down a hill about 50 yards. I wish it had been a DRT as it would have been a lot easier to get her out.

I've read every post here and honestly I find it very interesting. Seems whatever guys use all over the country all produce drt's. I personally have never witness a DRT without hitting the CNS with any caliber in the sub-medium bore category. I can also say I don't think I have hunted in any state that allowed less than a 243 or 6mm. Poachers used 22's both LR & Mags in Maine as a standard round for their work but usually used head shots.

For me, between witnessed and done myself, I have to say 30 caliber and up have produced more DRT deer & elk. The best of the best was the 300 Win Mag. using both 180 & 200 grain bullets of various makes and models.

I've never hunted with or owned or hunted with someone that had a Weatherby but have heard some amazing stories about them...including the little 257. The stories are they kill like lightening.

Probably the most DRT's I produced was when I converted a Browning BSS shotgun to a paradox gun with express sights and all that launched a solid soft lead 730 grain projectile @ around 1100fps. I used this gun when I hunted very thick cover were 50 yards was a long shot. Every deer I hit with the Paradox gun in Maine & North Carolina dropped at that very instance. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-20 deer of all types and sizes & every shot angle you can think of. It also double as a fantastic grouse & woodcock gun in the Maine alders. Work pretty good on bobwhite quail in NC also.

You absolutely can get true DRT's with pure lung hits every time. You just have to use a cartridge and bullet combo that destroys a massive amount of tissue. So much damage that very few would be willing to accept.

Somewhere north of a hundred deer with 300Win Mags and 178gr AMAX's. Shortest shot of around 20 yards and longest of 860 yards. Only two I believe have not bounced at the shot with lung hits- the 860 yard buck pushed himself downhill on his face for around 40 yards, and a freak of an 8pt that had just been fighting another flopped for about 20 yards.


The other stellar performer has been 95gr Nosler Ballistic Tips from 243's. closing in on three digits and I believe a total of 6 have not flopped at the shot with lung shots.

35 Whelen, both 200 gr & 250 gr bullets. Overkill is way under-rated.
270 with 130 gr bullets, mostly Partitions, has a pretty good track record as well. Took 2 whitetails last Sat AM that went straight down, the third managed 30-40 yards before giving up the ghost.

280 Remington & its ballistic twin, 308 Winchester.

IF your 280 AINT any better than that, I'd get rid of it!

Oh, it's a dream to carry. It is the most accurate long gun I own. It is also my favorite cartridge without doubt. But, I do still have a soft spot for the 308 since it's what I started with back in 1977.

165,168 gr. usually BT's but not always. 70% 30-06,15 & 15% ,.308 or 300 win mag, Nothing lets the air out, bang flop, drop like a sack of feed like a good old 30 cal.

Most bang flops, My 22-250 using 60 grain Hornady sp's and hp's has only failed me one time. That was a 180 pound buck that made it 25 feet. This is generally my "doe rifle". I have great hopes for my new "doe rifle" using 70 gr. Ballistic Tips from a 243. Next up would have to be my 30-06 using the old 150 grain Speer Hotcors.

280 Ack with the Speer 160 gr Hot Core

257 Weatherby.

.30-30 and .270 Win

My experience exactly.

308 always

Have had more DRT's with my T/C pro Hunter 20 gauge and my reloaded
20 gauge slugs. The Hornady .452 FTX bullet is devastating.

Doc

Its a toss between the 350 Rem MAG and 338-06AI.

.243win believe it or not.

Wait, you guys shoot some deer that aren't DRT ?

35 rem 200gr corelokt
270 with 130's a close 2nd

Never had anything run after the .460 is fired.
Gravity works!

M198 Howitzer

Chalk up another 270 win & 130 gr.

The only elk i've seen drt[without a cns hit] was one i shot this year. 40 yards away and quartering away i hit him center of the second rib from the flank with a 250 gr berger 338. The bullet exited the sternum and it looked like a wrecking ball hit him. I have never seen an animal flung to the ground like that. He wasn't dead for a couple minutes but barely struggeled only once.
Deer have been 2out of 3 drt 270wsm with 130ttsx. 120 to 300yds.

Fred

This year two whitetail at 80 yards with 250A.I. It was like someone kicked their feet out from under them!! Oh they we're standing about 10 feet apart too.

.416 Weatherby. Never seen anything take a single step. Instant light out and down.

I've only killed 3 with my Whelens so far, but all three dropped on the spot. Range varied from 60-210. First two were Remington 200gr factory. This year was 225gr Sierra reloads.
My next best "bang flop" gun is my .44 rifle with 200gr XTP hand loads. Most shots I have taken with it were less than 50 yards, some less than 15.
Shot a whitetail facing me with a .300 Win mag at about 125 yards. Bullet was a Hornady 180gr. Deer had ZERO reaction to the shot other than to turn and walk away. Walked about 50 yards and fell over.

.35 Whelen with 225 gr AB's

270 winchester and 130 gr bullets.

.300 Savage with Remington 180 gr. RN Core-Lockt. Second would be 30-06 with Federal Premium 165 gr. Sierra Game King BTSP. Third would be 12 ga. Remington Sluggers. Last but not least would be .22 LR. Squirrels really don't like head shots......

.280 with Winchester Silvertips and 7mm-08 with Federal Fusion.

300win. Mag. From Browning bar named "Mother".

Shot placement?

Once again the answer will almost always be what you shoot most and best. DRT has nothing at all to do with the round, but all to do with placement.

But some can't seem to understand that.

And would call a man a liar if he said every deer he shot with a 22 LR or mag was DRT.

I would have to disagree, with the terminal aspect of the statement. the cartridge has a little to do with it. a .17 placed in the same exact spot as a 280, won't have the same effect.

+1

Interesting moniker with the above in mind.

Eat right up to the hole w/ that one too I'll bet.

DRT: .54 roundball, 30-06, 12g 00buck, 12g copper solid slugs, 12g brenneke, .44 w/180grain xtp, .44 w/240grain xtp, .451 w/460grain conical....


Non DRT: .54 roundball, 12g 00buck, 12g copper solid slugs, 12g brenneke, .44 w/180grain xtp, .44 w/240grain xtp, .451 w/460grain conical....


CONCLUSION: 30-06 is better & man has caused global climate change.

For me the largest % DRT is a tie between the '06 with 180 grain RN core lokts and the .54 with roundball.

I dont seek out DRT, since I can usually track a large non-dangerous game animal with 2 huge holes in its vitals across the 25-50 yards they cover in a "death run". Usually. Yeah, I 'm THAT good.

.35 whelen with Barnes ttsx. Pure magic on white tails.

Dave

In a way yes, but if you are after DRT, the ONLY shot placement thats 100% is going to be the same wiht a 17 or a 280 and the results will be exactly the same.

if you are NOT trying to hit the CNS, then you are never guaranteed a thing. All of the folks touting the 257 wtby for DRT... my buddy and I bought a pair 5 years ago. I've not even put a scope on mine, he did right away and has shot 5-6 deer a year plus hogs with his. He has NEVER had one DRT ever. Thats contrary to what folks post generally about a high speed round. But then he does not shoot CNS shots either.

Of course my earlier answer was 243 win. And thats the truth for me, not aiming at CNS shots. moved to a 300 wtby and recall 2 deer that dropped at the shot. Vs about 50% on the 243.

If you want hte best chance with a non CNS shot, IMHO speed is your best friend and then if you add a frangible bullet that helps even more. I don't do frangible bullets though.

280 AI probably because its what I usually have in my hands when I'm hunting deer. I agree with others that DRT's are more a function of shot placement than caliber.

25-06 and a 100gr bullet, mostly Nosler ballistic tips.

One rifle is 12 for 12, a few beyond 400 yards. Another rifle is 2 for 2, the last one a tad over 200 yards.

All one shot kills (primarily heart/lungs). All but two deer just fell where hit and neither that didn't drop, went more than a few yards before toppling over.

I shoot mostly between 400 and 500 yards.

Good DRT ratio is:
.257 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip 4 killed
.270 130 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip 9 killed
7mm 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip 1 killed
7mm 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip 2 killed

Bad DRT ratio:
7mm 180 gr Berger VLD hunting 3 killed
7mm 162 gr Hornady SST 1 killed

I have hunted deer for 41 seasons now and have used many a different round / cartridge during that time.

By far the most DRT by total and percentage is the 7x57mm shooting 120g X Bullets.

It is so effective that twice now I have shot deer that where on the run in the rib cage and each time they just folded and crashed. That bullet in my 7x57mm impressed me so much that I went and bought 500 of them. I still have that supply I am working through. These are the original X bullets without and grooves and flat base.

I have used the 7x57mm with the 139 HSPBT and they work good but not like the 120g X. Not wanting to start a bullet debate but with over 25 deer to that 7x57mm and 120g X combo and none ever taking a follow on movement I know what works for me.

I'd have to say, the 30-30 with Winchester 150gr Powermax. Hard to believe even for me.

.308 Win CorBon 168gr DPX

.45-70Govt CorBon 300gr. DPX

both neck-n-neck....

bottom line: Barnex X-bullet is like throwing a chainsaw thru game.

264 Win Mag

120 BT going 3200

Oh, and 12 gauge slugs are devastating..

Agree with RAS. Only "DRT"s I have had is here in NC with 12 gauge slugs. My favorite deer rifle is my 35 Whelen CDL, but no "DRT" even on a small doe and a neck shot 8 point in WV. 30-06, 7mm-08, 243 all right behind the shoulder have ran at least a little. All of these have been a non issue though as within 50 yds I have found the deer but as far as the posted question, 12 gauge slugs have been the most devastating. If you are able to place the shot in the vitals, I don't think you can go wrong with most calibers.

I've killed far more game with a .280 than anything else but the rounds that I've had the most non-CNS DRT kills with are the .257 Roy with 85 TTSX and .300 RUM with 180 BT. I'm not talking about lung hits here though. Don't recall many, if any, DRT lung shots with any round. I'm talking center shoulder shots or raking shots from behind.

30-06

35 Whelen 250 Gr bullet

165gr in an 06

.338 250NP both WM & 338-06

257 Roberts 100gr Sierra

GreggH

I agree with rost495. I could be wrong but I think he meant specific shot placement with a specific round = DRT. There have been plenty of white-tailed deer elude hunters that have been shot with the like of 7mm mags, 300 wm, etc. on the contrary there have been too many animals to count that go DRT with a 22-250. Obviously a .22-250 and a .280 would not have the same effect if shot in a lung heart area. But if shot in neck or head....not much different.

Basically, choose the shot according to the round you are shooting nd any animal can go DRT.

The last 15 deer all but 1 were DRT from lots of different angles with .260 rem 120gr fusions.... Very deadly combo on Deer. Next would have been .270wsm 130. Can't remember the kind I shot in that..... I have shot deer with .300wm, .270wsm, 30-06, .308. .260, .243. The .260 for its size in a 120 is just plain Impressive..... My Mountian rifle DM is my go to gun.

Oh none were neck shots and the one was a death run for 25 yards

7mm-08.

7-08 with a 140.

270 by a landslide! DRT's have been pretty much guaranteed since I started using the 120's in the 7-08 tho.

270 win

257 Roberts and the old Remington factory 117gr. Seems to drop deer quicker than my 35 Whelen but I do love the Whelen. Both are Rem 7600.

Just whitetails but 35 whelen with 200gr core-lokts

DRT is more on the hunter than the cal. I have killed many many whitetail (drt) with a large range of cals. head shots and high shoulder hits puts them right down I have used 243 up to 300 weatherby and also ued 12ga slugs. all work well when bullets are placed where they belong just my 2 cents worth

257 WBY magnum. Death ray.

.270 Win with 130gr Game Kings, 130gr Interlocks, 140gr BTSP Interlocks, and 1st generation 150gr Ballistic Tips. I've said it many times here on the Campfire, but I really don't know why I don't currently own a .270�

John

I don't worry much about which caliber for does,I shoot them in the head or the neck 125yds and closer.Bucks I usually use something bigger them a 270win with 130gr bullets.

270 Win. with 130 gr. NP or Core-Lokt.

270 with the 130gr

Just got mine out to try for the first time.

You are right. Shot a deer and DRT. Of course all I had was the head and it worked.

But the other 4 deer I"ve shot with it ran like heck. Not that far, but like heck. A buddy has shot probably 15-20 deer with his too. Finally dropped one this year. Broke its back.

Its shot placement to be reliable DRT, not caliber. I won't argue some calibers are more prone to shocking, than others.

But shot in the ribs, and not close to the spine or major bones, fast or slow, probably 99% of the deer shot there will run.

THIS.

.270 win with 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip or Hornady Interlock.

25-06 and any premium bullet I have tried.

270Weatherby Mag. 130gr Hornady. It will on a lung/chest hit blow blood out the nose and mouth. No deer sized animal can survive, even for a second or two, from that degree of trauma.

.260 with 130 bergers!

.300 win 180gr. Silver ballistic tips.

Bout 35-40 with a. .308; nothing much beyond 100 yards and most either core lokts or the dreaded, always purported to fail....... Drum roll....... Nosler green tip ballistic tip boat tails.

You know as slow as my 308 is, the Ballistic tips are not that bad out of it.

I still fail to see why anyone would run a 150 bt out of a 300 mag though... my BIL used to all the time... and waste who knows how much meat.

I still don't care that much for them unless they are driven slowly.

Like in my 1800 fps 243 load with 80 bt varmint bullets.. those work just right at that speed at around 150ish yards. Pretty quiet and for rib shots work just right.

Combination of two calibers:

243 from age 6 - 16 - took over 100 WT with it
16- current age - 25-06 Taken another 100 wt as well as a dozen desert mule deer and two elk

Grew up hunting a ranch with a doe cull operation, hence the larger than normal numbers.

.338wm.

Winchester .243, 125 grain

Where do you find 125gr bullets for the 243?

Yeah anyway?

Seen the same thing from a 7 Rem Mag. Nasty stuff.

25-06 with 120 Gr Hornady HP's.
280 Rem with Hornady 139 SST's

5.56 ball.

BC

Evidently the OP has not shot that many deer. A lung shot, will not always knock a deer down. HV rounds may err to that side often, but will not be 100%.
And regardless the deer lives longer than 1-2 seconds anyway, being picky that I am.

Shot placement and don't worry about it.

Bob, that was at the OP there, not you.

308 w/165gr and 7x57 w/154gr RN. 25-06 w/100gr has dropped a few right there. In fact everyone if I remember right. But it also made any flesh hit uneatable. I went to the 117gr Hornady and kills but animals generally walk off 30' or so and fall down.

Jeff got it.

This may happen more often than we think, this business of a high velocity bullet through the lungs blowing blood from nose and mouth but have only seen it that I was aware once. I shot a good sized 4x4 that hove into view on a small hogback suddenly quartering on, so I shot off hand.

He collapsed to the shot at 60 yards or so and as the rifle recoiled I was aware of a sort of "cloud" of mist in front of his face. Got to him and the front of his antlers were covered with blood that blew out the nose and mouth at bullet impact.

The load was 7RM and 140 BBC at about 3300 fps. I found that bullet back in the opposite ham. Still have it...there was no wind that morning and I guess the light was right to see this happen.

Ahh...the wonders of high velocity...

But as often as not a lung shot "anything" will make tracks but not many but you never know.... some will cover 50-100 yards. One of our more astute posters on here related to me this year, a 7mm-150 BT from a mag 7 at 3250 let a doe cover over 100 yards with a solid lung hit and this is supposed to be one of those fast killers with lung shots. One buck in Sask covered 80-90 yards after a 300 magnum 180 blew chunks of lung and blood debris all over the snow on the off side...the exit was pretty big. So you never know.

Personally have had more DRT's(with anything) when bone and vitals were taken at the same time. More dramatic and predictable IME; and what I will just naturally go for if I can..

It was the last morning of a Kansas DIY rifle hunt for me. I had climbed down from the stand and was circling around a field of prairie grass with the intent to walk through it and jump a buck as an attempt to salvage the hunt. Before I could make it all the way around, a couple of deer jumped, one being a ten point. Swinging my 270 WBY mag with the running buck, I touched one off. I quickly ran over to that area so that I could look into the pasture beyond and get another look at him. There was no deer running across the pasture, so I went back where he was when I shot. There he lay with an entrance just in front of the hind quarter with a slight angle forward to a mid body exit. No spinal damage that I could tell, just an immediate kill from a ultra high velocity cartridge. Since then, I've seen the same type performance out of the 257 WBY magnum on several occasions.
I certainly think bone is the best option for dropping them, but there is something to the shocking power of a high velocity round.

Sometimes it seems that way

But then, it won't work...and you scratch your head.

I can't recall a lot of DRT shots, but the two I do remember were with a 130 grain Federal .270, and the other with a 270 grain Speer Gold Dot SP .44 Mag.
I don't think it's all that important what you shoot 'em with.

Like I said, shot placement, all the rest is never 100% reliable.

I"ve seen 270s with pure gut hit, not even angling but broadside, flop and never move. I"ve seen the same shooter bust a shoulder/leg bone and blow stuff all over the the deer running off without much running gear left... go figure.

YOu can hype velocity all you want, but it simply isn't the end all. But it can up the odds, but to me, thats depending on how much energy is transferred.

Read fast 300 mag rounds, and I dropped more lung shot deer in their tracks with a slightly slower 243.... Go figure. Best I can, the 243 gave more energy to the deer, and the 300 blew more of it out past into the dirt...

The most spectacular DRT I ever did was during testing the then new, Woodleigh Weldcore 340gn Spire Point .416 bullet. Geoff McDonald told me it was designed to perform up to around 2600fps.

The trouble was, I asked him that question "after" I was using it at over 2900fps from a .416 Weatherby. I took a shot at a goat feeding on the edge of a clearing from a couple of hundred yards out and the bullet hit high lung directly in the spine.

The result was rapid expansion that blew the animal in half and sprayed the trees behind with buckets of blood soaked molecular structure, chunks of skin and flesh and fine red mist.

Resuscitation failed, the bullet didn't

I believe it's more the bullet than the cartridge. If you hand load, just about any cartridge with the right bullet will do.

In factory ammo, I've seen more bang flops from the .243 with 100 gr. Remington loads than any other cartridge.

Personally, I hand load and select bullets for bang flop kills. Sierra Game Kings or Nosler Ballistic Tips will do that.

The most from a single cartridge would have to be the 220 Swift because I've shot more deer with it than the others.

280 Remington with 150 CoreLokt's

.376 steyr. 225gr. Hornady sp at around 2600 fps using IMR 4895. It rolls the muddy foogers. Haven't had one yet take more than 2 more steps. Less meat damage than a high velocity smaller diameter round. Where we hunt, in thick mountain laurel and dense woods where a 75-150 yd. shot is the norm, it's damn near the perfect round for me. Shot a nice little 6 pointer right at dusk this year stand hunting with my daughter, and it fell in it's tracks with all 4 legs straight up in the air like a turtle on it's back.

Exactly. I have an uncle that cussed a .22-250 after he maimed up several deer. I asked him what bullet he was using..... a 52 gr. hornady flat base match bullet?! Hunted with a friend of a friend for hogs in Crockett TX last year, same story, .223 loaded with 55 gr. VMAX. The wrong bullet along with poor placement, but it's the fault of the caliber choice... My Dad taught me very early on that you pick the right tool for the job, and if you don't get the shot you need, the animal walks.

For deer-sized game, I'd have to say .257 Wby Mag with 120 gr. Nosler Partition.

Death Ray...

Well I would have to say for me it has been my .300 Win mag with 165 and 180 grain NBT's. However I have killed more deer with it than any other rifle. Having said this all 3 off my kills with my new .270 WSM and 150 grain NBT's have been DRT. I can only think of 3 kills where I hit the CNS. All others were thru the chest and all had exit wounds. I will also say most of my DRT kills were at distances over 200 yards. Most of my hunting is hillside to hillside and I have come to expect a bang flop. Even at 400 yards with a .257AI and 115 grain Partition a big doe double lunged only stumbled about 10 yards this past season.

.270 Win, of course, with 130g TTSX

Didn't read the whole thread but have to say my most DRT is using my 220 Swift and 55 gr Vmax on varmints but since everyone else is talking about big game then I'll share I get very few DRT on big game, most all go at least a couple of feet. Even the heart shot animals go a little ways.

As far as caliber goes I haven't seen a big difference in DRT kills from my .243, .257, 25WSM, .284, .280 or even the .375 H&H.

I will state the animals I've shot with the Barnes bullets go further, on the average, than those taken with cup and core but they all die fairly quick.

The title of the OP should read

"what bullet and at what impact velocity have you had the most DRT's with?"..and throw out all the CNS hits.

headstamps have zero impact on DRT's.

And to a certain extent shot placement matters.

Matters that most every shot that has been DRT that I"ve seen, has been really close to a CNS shot, and probably either shock or more likely frags of bone/lead/jacket did the shock rahter than simply a fast bullet passing by within an inch or so of CNS...At least thats my guess, x ray would be the ONLY way to know for sure.

Consistent theme runs through this stuff, I think. We see different results from soft tissue lung hits, because, while these shots induce a lot of trauma, there isn't anything about lung hits that are "immediately" fatal or disabling. Sometimes(regardless of cartridge or bullet) we see a lights out kill with such hits, and sometimes, we don't.

Like punching a hole in a gas tank, they move until the blood pressure drops and the oxygen runs out, which does not take too long but a wild animal can move a long ways in 5-10 or 15 seconds or so.

Rem. 7RM and 150gr. corelok's. DRT. Cheers NC

Only one round in this discussion has earned the title, "Death Ray". The 257 WBY magnum goes beyond the science of bullet types, shot selection, etc. It's a mystical round and the king of DRT.

.270 Winchester with 130gr Core-loc's..40+ whitetails

Nope not at all. I"ve shot 5 or 6 deer with mine now, only bang flop was a spine hit. My buddy has shot 5-6 deer every year with his also, but for about the last 5-6 years. Only bang flop was also a spine shot.

They don't go all that far, usually less than 50 yards.

Jeff

And no, not a one of them has been non lungs.....

Your sample size is small, but that is a very low percentage for your friend. Are y'all shooting some weak loads or something?

I've had 5 out of 6 mature bucks DRT along with a antelope and bighorn sheep. My son has DRTed 2 of 3 mature bucks. All of these are 257 WBY magnum kills. I don't have a number on the does, but a bunch of them dropped, also.

They ain't no where near mild. My cases have ejector marks on most of them. 100 grain TTSX.

Its shot placement. Put it middle of lungs, and you punch pieces of lungs out on the ground at times but you simply are not close enough to a high shoulder shot or CNS to shock the CNS enough to dump em.

I have dropped 2 though, that I did not mention, in their tracks with it but it doesn't count, they were head shots.

Yes a sample of 30 isn't large. But then again for most folks 30 deer ain't a small sample either.

Boils down to shot placement, somewhat to bullet choice too, but shot placement trumps all. There is no magic round that dumps em all on the spot without the correct shot placement. I've had more DRT witht he 243 than teh 257 wtby so far...

That being said I"ve heard of a local guy, 220 swift, gut shot all his deer in the flanks, gutless cleaning method, and supposedly never had one run. No clue if its true or not.

Its shot placement. Put it middle of lungs, and you punch pieces of lungs out on the ground at times but you simply are not close enough to a high shoulder shot or CNS to shock the CNS enough to dump em.


My experience disagree's with this statement rost495. I have shot many deer in this spot and dumped them where they stood. I still feel the conditions have more to do with it. Get deer out past 200 yards and calm and a good solid hit drops them where they stand.

Rost495, I've had great DRT results with tissue only hits. Your results are surprising. We've always used the BT and NAB bullets. If you aren't shooting for bone, is an X bullet needed? I'm sure your getting pass thrus and that's great for trailing.
As far as the 220 swift, I think ultra velocity makes a big difference. That's the only way I can explain some of the 257 results I've had.

I use X because I hate lots of meat damage, and I"m prepared.

The next deer that walks out, may have to be shot lengthwise, at an angle, may be 100 pounds larger than all the rest etc..

I just choose to be prepared.

Trust me, I've shot a LOT of deer. I'm pushing 50, have been shooting deer for 40 years, and rarely shoot less than 4 or 5, sometimes pushing 10.

I've tried it all and seen it all. High speed always gives more chance of DRT.

But then again you note bullet choice. Which means its not all about the caliber or cartridge, but a LOT about getting shock. Means bones and close to or in CNS, and fragmenting bullets. You can fragment slow or fast, just depending on how you go about it or try to go about it.

You couldn't pay me to shoot a ballistic tip after taking a deers head totally off with one. And a few body shots that had horrific exits the size of a baseball.

But they do work and can put em down quick with a lot of damage along the way.

FWIW most of my shots are 150 out to over 400 and I've still found it simply shot placement most of the time.

I've actually had more DRTs with the 308 and heavy bullets than I have with the 257. No clue why, as it makes no sense.

Rost I've probably not shot near as many deer as you but what I have shot has been with a 270 95% or better. 130 gr hard bullet has served me well, my shots are close though and usually well placed. I agree on the ballistic tips, killers they are but meat destoyer's they are also. I don't need huge holes, just two holes. I have had a few run but never far. I would imagine a 308 with the 130 TTSX would give you a lot of DRT's. It works and so far without a lot of meat damage.

This is surprising. Tell me how this happens?

I have yet to see any round elevate itself above bullets and placement,certainly none have reached the level of "mystical"....but have never used a 257 Weatherby....only the 257 Roberts and 25/06 in 25 caliber.

I don't need DRT. I actually enjoy the puzzle of the trailing part. Some folks are different, or I'm different, whichever way you look at it.

But its funny to me that folks think they can find a round thats 100% DRT without hitting CNS. Just ain't such a beast that I can tell.

Agreed.I have never seen anything that will do it 100% of the time.

I'd tell you if I knew. That's why it's mystical. We've had some last rib quartering forward shots that are amazing with the WBY. Ultra velocity is my guess.

Rost, my son had great results with the .308, also. Just about an ideal for whitetails. I made the mistake of getting him the Ruger Compact with a 16.5" barrel. Cool rifle, but just too loud and not ultra accurate.

If you are ruining too much meat with BT's you are hitting them in the wrong spot or you like ribs and lungs! BT's are at their best with lung shots. They turn everything to soup. I expect the reason I get so many DRT kills is because I use more than enough gun and shoot mostly calm deer. However I have had DRT with a .260 rem and 129 grain Interlocks, go figure. However the deer was only 100 yards but feeding and totally unsuspecting.

My longest death runs were deer who were aware I was there. One was shot with a .300 Win Mag at about 50 yards with a BT. The other was shot at about 150 yards with a 7.5x55 and a 150 grain Interlock. Both deer were alerted to my presence and were about to bolt when hit.

I've seen the 257 Weatherby in action on probably a half dozen big game animals. It worked just like a lot of other high velocity rounds. Shot in the right place, animals died quickly. Shot in the wrong place, they ran off and died somewhere else after some more shooting.

120 NBT from a 7-08 @2950 is like lightning strike on deer. Pretty much any mid/lightweight NBT moving fast into the boiler room is going to smash them like a hammer.

PG that's what I sort of figured...... I don't believe in magic.

The effects of high velocity are pretty well known,and I don't see why they should apply any more to a 257 Roy than to anything comparable,or more potent. After all, it's only a 25....admittedly a fast one, but still just a 25 caliber.

You are a better man than I am. Ability to get the perfect broadside shot every time.

Sometimes I have to involve parts that I'd like to eat. And yes ribs, if not overly fat, are very good on the grill. Not all like them though. But if I put that BT in the wrong place, either entry or exit, due to angling shots.. ugh.

As to shooting enough gun, all I can say is still to this day the most bang flops I've ever had, was with a 243 win...... the 300 mags I"ve had, just have rarely rarely dropped deer where they stand. Even with light for caliber bullets running fast... 150 barnes to the max would not do it. 168 ballistic tips would not eihter. Though those BTs are impressive for head shots.

I have shot very few deer that have any clue I"m around, and when I have to, I fully expect them to run.

And then ran a 185 berger bullet into one this year as he had me made... and danged if the 308 didn't put him on the ground inside of 20 steps.... go figure.

So I just will generally go with a gun/bullet combo that will take any angle shot at the max distance I might attempt, and be happy with that ability.

Who cares if I have to follow them a bit into the bush...

.280 Rem using 150 gr. Nosler Partitions. The only time I had a deer move after shooting it with a .280, I was using 139 gr. SST's. Not a fan of them as I got no blood trail at all from it. I used 140 gr. NBT with great success in the .280 and 7mm-08.

PG that's what I sort of figured...... I don't believe in magic.

The effects of high velocity are pretty well known,and I don't see why they should apply any more to a 257 Roy than to anything comparable,or more potent. After all, it's only a 25....admittedly a fast one, but still just a 25 caliber.[/quote] What is comparable or more potent than a 257 WBY?

What is comparable or more potent than a 257 WBY? [/quote]


Any 7mm Magnum....or 264 WM....or 300 mag....or (?).

375 RUM using 260 Nosler BT 's or 250 Sierra BT's

Laffin'

I am unworthy....and too meek.

338 win mag using 200 gr. barnes ttx bullets I have never had a deer take more than two steps. So far shot 9 deer with this combination. A bit of an overkill some might say but I like not searching especially in this thick south Texas brush

I killed a feral goat on the run at about 150 yards with a 300gn Hornady HP loaded a little over 3000fps in my .460.

When I went up to the carcass, the bullet smashed everything calcium related so my boot felt like it was touching a hessian bag (Sugar bag to Aussies) full of nuts and bolts. The hide over the spine split about 5 inches from the pressure of expansion within the chest cavity.

It never heard the shot.

Have shot quite a bit with 338 win mag, 210 ttsx bullets. Only bang flops again have been head shots.

I doubt there is any difference between your loads and mine. But I bet there is shot placement difference.

I too hunt the thick stuff down south, but we've had no issues trailing deer, its not a big deal, follow the blood, leads to the deer. Get a few spines dragging em out though.

We did have an issue trailing one I shot wiht my 50 bmg though once... she only bled where she fell, about 200 yards away, after punching both lungs.... lucky she took a deer trail as we followed more than a few to find her. So much for the 50 not needing good bullets too.

50 bmg right through the chest and out the rear...filets em out!!!

hahahaha Nahhhh one year I shot 8 w/ my 7-08 that went no where but down...Winchester Ballistic tips. Then again, I shot and never found a deer this year at about 10 yards due to a twig busting my bullet causing it to pulverize an area between the shoulder and backbone. Bled fer about 50 yards and ceased! Scoured the area w/ a dog, and no luck!!! It made an awesome (except loosing the deer) video since I had a GoPro on my gun.

50 bmg, most just assume, becuase they have NO clue.

It does almost no damage at all. Of course its big, but its slow.

We ate right up to the 50 cal hole in the doe I shot with mine.

Like I said, no blood trail and hard to find, but she was dead.

I've refrained from posting on this long thread until now, but couldn't stand it anymore. My experience is the same as Jeff Rost's: A lot of cartridges look like magic killers until you use them a lot.

I went through a period during the late 1980's and 1990's when I thought the .338 Winchester Magnum was THE ANSWER. This was because I killed a lot of animals in both North America and Africa with it, using various bullets from 200-250 grains, and none went over 25-30 yards before falling, most a lot less. The animals included everything from doe whitetails to Alaskan moose.

Then one day I shot a caribou bull with the 210 Partition, right through the top of the heart and both lungs. Caribou aren't particularly hard to kill, but the bull went 75 yards with enough blood spraying from both the entrance and exit wounds to leave a double blood trail across the tundra, then stood there for a while before falling. In fact I was ready to shoot him again and was starting to tighten on the trigger when he finally keeled over.

If I shot enough animals, similar things always happened with other rounds I thought were magic (though never as certainly as with the .338) from the .257 Weatherby Magnum to the 9.3x62 Mauser.

Have seen more quick kills with bullets that fragment more than those that hold together more, but even then there can be LOTS of variation.

I would disagree on the 50 BMG being slow.
all depends on the bullet too.


12k+ ft/lbs is nothing to slouch about. and with a 750 amax at even 2600+ fps.... it'll leave a hole!

22-250 with regular 55 gr SPoint 100 to 300 yards. Deer and antelope

7mm RM with 160 speer mag tips elk. all less than 150 yards

So does one experience out of many mean that the .338 isn't one heck of a round on deer? A good friend hunted whitetails with the .338 WIN and it stomped 'em. Just more gun that I want to shoot. Of course, not every shot is going to instantly put an animal down, but I've shot enough deer with various rounds to come up a good sample size. It seems that Rost had incredible bad luck out of the 257 WBY and 338 WIN on DRTs or he is sandbagging his results a bit. The "I aim for lungs, therefore I don't have DRTs" doesn't work for me. Both of those rounds will drop deer instantly with lung only hits at times. Not everytime for sure, but not to the point that it never happens.

My answer, a no good, low down, 270 Winchester loaded with anything from a 130 to 150 grain projectile. Just seems to work every time I've tried it.

Well, if 2600 fps isn't slow, these days, I don't know what slow is.

Have not had the chance to use an amax on a deer, but from watching other rounds, speed tends to make a difference.

How many have you shot with the amax, and what was the hole like? I have barnes on hand if i ever buy a press for my 50...

I'm interested to know the results, the boards I read said no problem with ball ammo, would knock em off their feet... yeah right, what I get for listening to the interenet.

That was a long 200 yards looking for a deer... in south texas brush.

I don't sandbag results. Its how it happened. I long ago gave up on DRT just due to a round.

I will tell you this, if I chose to shoot a more frangible bullet, like a nosler ballistic tip, which I don't and won't unless they are slow or subsonic uses, then I can see more DRT. And if I'd choose to run teh rounds as fast as I could, then I could see it.

But I don't. And I'm happy with the results.

I'm CLOSE to DRT with the 257 wtby, my buddys and my results have shown that you really don't have to blood trail generally speaking, they are goign to be 20-30 yards maybe to 50 so far... with one exception and after my wife finally found his doe, had we gone back to look, she may not have been more than 50-60 yards from teh shot, but in wicked thicket and round about way to get to her....

Of course I rarely have to follow my 308 deer very far either...