Good morning, y’all. I’ve got a pretty basic question that could probably be answered with a little searching on my part, but where is the fun in that?

Me and a couple of my Marine buddies are going on our first elk hunt this fall. We had one set up 3 years ago that wound up getting cancelled, so here we go for our second attempt. My problem is deciding which rifle to take and what to load it with. I have a plethora of rifles that are chambered in what suitable cartridges (according to my campfire research) but now I am second guessing my choice.

As of right now, my choice is a pre-64 Model 70 30/06 loaded with 180 grain Sierra Gamekings. I know, the rifle is heavy by today’s standards, but I figured I should give it a shot while I’m still young and still have some piss and vinegar left in the tank.

After reading the 300WM v 338 Mag thread, I’m really starting to second guess my bullet choice. My hunting experience has been limited to whitetails and pigs on the high end of the size scale, so I have no experience shooting anything heavier than about 250-300 pounds. My general philosophy has been choose a “heavier” for caliber cup and core at moderate velocity, so up to around 2900 or so tops. I’m partial to SGKs and have been happy with this approach, BUT, how foes that translate to elk? Should I ditch the cup and cores altogether?
Interestingly, I had a bullet failure this year on a nice 9 point out of my 338 Fed. Bullet was a Hornady 200 grain SP. shot was through the ribs at 220 yards. The jacket departed on impact and the core was in the offside hide.

We’ll be hunting in SW Montana. Public land. bull elk. 3rd week of November. The rifles I would consider are;

30/06 pre-64 Mod 70
338 Fed Kim 84M
7mm/08 Kim 84M

Of these, the 7mm/o8 is the most pleasing to shoot for obvious reasons, but I can and do shoot all three of these rifles just fine, regularly. I guess what would help me is, if you were to choose either of these rifles, which one and what bullet? Real experience would be greatly appreciated.

Take the two you shoot the best. You don’t need a magnum to kill an elk.
My 06 has killed every elk I’ve ever shot, And most dead right there.
One only one ran a little bit because my poor shot placement on the shoulder due to the angle and didn’t hit vitals.
The 7-08 is also very capable and will serve you just fine and carry that since it’s the easiest to shoot for you. shot placement is the key. Just use appropriate bullet..
The 338 fed would work, and would probably be little thumper.
The more trigger time with your main rifle, the better you’ll be off

Your 06 with 180s will do just fine. Don't overthink it.

Other then the weight the .06 will do the job nicely. 3rd week of Nov. might have a lot of moisture. The wood stock would be a concern if it gets wet. That old wood might soak up some water and warp a little, causing some POI change. Confidences in the whole package is huge.

You’ll be fine with the 30-06 and the 180 Gameking.

Inside 2600-2900 starting velocity cup and core bullets perform very well.

Where’s your trip?

We’re going with a guide out of Stevensville, MT. Hunt area is in unit 270.

Any reservations on shooting through shoulders with the 180 gameking?

Yes - you’ll probably tear up a lot of meat in the process - punch the vitals and be done with it.

It’s really a distance and energy question if you want shoulder penetration - but having hammered a shoulder to stop an elk, I would probably have been better off staying in heart lung area.

I know I would have saved more meat...

I've killed a bunch of them with a 270 and 150 gr Speer Hot Cores. Your '06 and Gamekings will work nicely. The 7mm Mag will shoot a little flatter but won't give you much advantage over the '06. If you want to use a magnum, that's your choice but it's not needed.

I would have no doubts it would get the killing job done. As AH noted shoulder shots damage good meat.

I purposefully avoid shoulder shots if possible.

I’m with Joel, while I’m not a huge Sierra fan, that won’t hold you back on any elk. If you have confidence in the rifle to shoot out to 400 or so I’d not worry a bit about it. At 30-06 speeds you’re unlikely to tear that Bullet up.

Rifles matter more than anything else in the discussion here and you’ve got two kimbers. If either is stainless and synthetic, go with that one.

This.
Gamekings tear meat up if impact velocity is high. From your 30-06, at modest impacy velocity you may or may not be fine if you hit solid shoulder bone. Put it tight behind the shoulder and that combo will be perfectly adequate.
Put it on the shoulder and you may have a rodeo, depending. You're pretty much guaranteed to have some nasty, tore up meat though.

Bigger question is how are your hunting boots and how is the glass on those rifles. These are things you don't skimp on hunting the west. Great broken in footwear is essential as is the best glass you can afford. I grew up back east so I speak from experience.

Take the .06, but stuff it with 180gr Partitions and H4350 powder. A Game King at 30 yards out of an .06,might not give you the desired results/. As for the pre 64 being a might heavier, I am 76 and I still tote mine around at 10,000-11,000 feet. Surely a young marine won't have of much problem.

When you get down to the serious stuff, it doesn't make much difference what the head stamp on the cartridge is as long as you can hit what you aim at and select the appropriate bullet. Elk are not hard to kill.Those that claim they can soak up a lot of lead, more than liklely, are putting the lead in the wrong place.

Great input so far, I'd take the old model 70, you have time to find a different load if you wish, if it were me I'd give some TTSX's a try either 168 or 150's heck, at the worst think of the weight you save!

That's most of it right there.

Any of your rifles will do the trick, I like the '06 or '08. I always wanted to use an 08 on elk. I have only killed two elk beyond 200 yards. Most all my shots were close in the woods, base of the skull with my 30/30, but I was a young airborne ranger then! As mentioned your footgear, your physical shape and your marksmanship skills need to be honed. The guide can only do so much, most of it is up to you. Elk are where you find em, hence the guide!

saddlesore has already covered it for me. Only I used 4831. """Take the .06, but stuff it with 180gr Partitions and H4350 powder. A Game King at 30 yards out of an .06,might not give you the desired results/. As for the pre 64 being a might heavier, I am 76 and I still tote mine around at 10,000-11,000 feet.""

Quite often when an animal is shot, it almost immediately goes into shock. That happens when the blood pressure plummets rapidly. If they go into shock, they will often just stand there while you keep shooting. Quite often, they're dead on their feet and the brain has mostly quit functioning. I once shot a bull 4 times, all 4 in a 3 or 4" circle in the center of the lungs. It just stood there then slowly collapsed. Each shot was a sure killer. The lungs were jello and the far shoulder was broken yet it just stood there as it bled out inside. I think this happens more often than what is known and it's often blamed on the bullet. In fact, the bullet worked perfectly but the elk just took a little longer to go down.

I've never been elk hunting so I'm definitely not your expert. But I'm 72 years old and age not withstanding, if in your position I would take that Pre-64 .30-06 and not look back. I think I might change from that SGK and go for a Nosler Partition in 180 grains. Don't get me wrong, I'm a SGK man from hell, but for Deer. What I've read on here, the Nosler Partition is one of the best elk bullets around and from what I hear here I would definitely use it no matter the cartridge choice. That's what I personally would use. In fact, my favorite cartridge for hunting is the .270 Win. and If I had the opportunity to go elk hunting I would probably use a .270 with a 150 Nosler Partition in a heart beat. But that is mostly because I've used one for 54 years and have a degree of confidence in it. However, for animals like elk it might be a toss up between the .270 and .30-06 as to which rifle I'd take. But which ever I took would be stoked with a load consisting of Nosler Partitions.

Depends somewhat on your hunting style and the condition of your .06. Will the pre-64 cause you to protect the rifle instead of concentrate on the hunt? A week of hunting is often good for adding character (ding or scratch) to whatever I'm carrying. I love everything about how my pre-64 .06 handles and shoots but it is about 99% condition and I have other, call them 'utility', rifles that perform well so my pre-64 doesn't go along for the rough hunts.

I would vote for the 30-06 and use the 178gr Hornady ELD-X ammo. I don’t reload and those work very well out of my Tikka. The other option for loaded ammunition would be the Barnes TTSX in 168gr or 180gr.

In a pinch I'd run the SGK's. Given that you have 4+mo, I probably try to get a 180 Partition load sorted out.

...what Saddlesore said.

When you top out on some knob somewhere, heart rate 150 plus, and an elk materializes out of no where, and you have three or four seconds to shoot, you just might appreciate the extra weight of that rifle.
As far as the 30/06 goes, 458 Win has a post on here saying that the quickest kills they have seen on big bears has been with the 30/06, 270 class. 458Win forgets more about guns and hunting while he loads his rifle than most of us will ever know.

Except that when you pop out on the knob with a heavier rifle, your pulse will be 180, not 150.

I’d grab the rifle you’re most comfortable with shooting.

Having killed elk with two of your three choices (30-06 M70 Fwt & Kimber 7-08), I’d absolutely be packing the Kimber 7-08. For the elk hunting I do, lighter is righter.

Conditioning and footwear are more important than rifles or bullets...

Wow. Thanks for all of the replies, gents. Until Brad posted I was thinking take the 06 and 338 Fed. The Fed is a Montana.

Brad, what bullet do you like in your 7/08? Of the three, that is the most enjoyable for sure, and not much heavier than the 338 Fed.

I'm not Brad, but a noted gunwriter that some have read on this forum seems to like the 140 TTSX in the 7mm-08 for elk, although at the modest muzzle velocity that cartridge produces, a 140gr Partition or nearly any well-constructed bullet should work well.

The cartridge is the least expensive item in your hunt. Don't be afraid of using premium bullets.

And, as others have mentioned, well broken-in boots, good binoculars and physical conditioning are far more important than the choice between a 7mm-08 and a 30-06 (which are both excellent choices).

Jeffrey, until I started racking up a good number of elk kills (and seeing a lot of elk killed by others) I was pretty hung up on cartridges and bullets, so I have a lot of sympathy for those that have limited or no experience on elk killing. I started my elk hunting with a 338 WM and 210 Partitions... I’ve now “regressed” to cartridges like the 270 and 7mm-08. I’d happily hunt elk the rest of my life with the 6.5 CM and might just do that.

To answer your specific question, I used the 150gr Ballistic Tip on a 9.5 year old bull I took with the 7-08 (6.5+ yo is what is considered “mature” here in Montana). The bullet caught him behind the onside ribs, and angled forward through the lungs and was under the offside scapula. That’s about 32” of penetration. He died more quickly than any elk I’ve ever shot.

I used the 150 NBT because my rifle shot them so well. My first choice was the 140 gr Accubond or Ballistic Tips, but my rifle didn’t especially like them. Honestly, I’d be happy with most any 140 gr bullet in the 7-08.

I’d take either your 7-08 or 338 FED (I’d load that with 180 or 200gr Ballistic Tips or Accubonds, whichever it shoots best).

7-08 Bull:

To everyone who gave input, thank you all. The emphasis on good footwear and physical fitness is not lost on me. At 34 I’m still lean and cagey, although cardio and strength training have been part of my lifestyle lately. I know the feeling of going uphill, winded, with seemingly not enough oxygen in the blood to keep the leg muscles pumping, although I haven’t been pushed to that extreme in a little while.

Brad, the idea of the ballistic tips in the 338F never occurred to me, but I am quite interested in that idea. At this point I’m probably overthinking and I think the 180 SGK and 30/06 would do just fine, but can see the merit in a premium bullet. The 30/06 is a shooter and I have a lot of kills with it, for me anyway. Some of them crawling to get the shot. A nice rifle, but one with character and a reputation for killing.

This, like most campfire discussions, shows how much opinions and experiences can vary. What is a gun nut to do with 5 months to go to his first elk hunt. Thanks, gentlemen.

I'd go with a bonded bullet and not over think it.
Your guide may well tell you to shoot for the shoulder, they don't like to blood trail elk evidently, they can go a long ways if wounded.
Take that lung /heart shot and be sure of your target.
Get yourself prepared to set up quickly and get a good shot off. Many first timers just take too long to get set and shoot. You need to practice getting your breathing down after say a taxing hike in and you jump a bull. Get practice using your pack or bipod as a rest and taking a steady shot.

Good boots are really important for a mountain hunt, get them broken in early and have a spare pair to wear when yours get wet.
Have some gaiters to help you keep your legs and pants dry, no rain pants needed.

[quote=Jeffrey At this point I’m probably overthinking and I think the 180 SGK and 30/06 would do just fine, but can see the merit in a premium bullet. The 30/06 is a shooter and I have a lot of kills with it, for me anyway. Some of them crawling to get the shot. A nice rifle, but one with character and a reputation for killing. . [/quote].

I have killed a lot of elk with the 180 gr Game King in my.06 and quite a few years ago,several with the 160 and 175 gr GK in a 7 mag until I figured out that the 7 mag only burns more powder and thumped my shoulder more than the .06 and the .06 killed them just as dead.
The only reason I switched to the 180 gr partition was I was getting low on the GK's and SPS had 180gr Partitions blems for $13/box so I bought 200 of them.

I have actually killed more elk with Sierra's 220 gr round nose loaded for my .06 at about 2500fps Doc said that with my replaced right shoulder, I needed to take care of it and not bang on it so hard. So I put a brake on the .06 and use the partitions now.

I will just repeat some of the info already suggested.
Either rifle should do fine, getting the rest of your equipment might be more advantageous.
I would find a pack board of some kind because if you kill a bull you will take it out in pieces, a good meat hatchet or meat saw. Conditioning should be easy for ex marines, get your mountain legs early on and it will make things so much better for your hunt.
Break in your boots over the summer.
Elk terrain can vary alot but expect lots of downed timbered, underbrush, sliderock.Most drainages / basins have drinking water ( around here)
If you are in your 30's , you are in your prime for these hunts....good luck

Yes. That said, most bullets will work most of the time.

My preference would be any of several other bullets including Barnes TTSX or LRX, Nosler Partition or AccuBond, Swift A-Frame or Scirocco II or Federal's new Terminal Ascent or its predecessors. I'd even go back to a Speer Grand Slam bullet, which has dropped more elk for me than all other bullets combined.

My group has yet to recover a Barnes TTSX, LRX or Nosler AB from elk or deer. About 50% straight down DRT results with one cow going about 25 yards after being hit with a 225g AB from a .338WM at 400 yards. A 150g AB from a .30-06 went through a cow broadside and she was on the ground before I recovered from the recoil, about 280 yards.

Got some 180 Accubonds coming for the 338 Fed and I’ll probably stick with the Gamekings in the 30/06. I’ve got a good load for the 160 TTSX but can’t seem to find any right now, so I’ll be seeing how the Accubonds do. I’ll take both rifles.

A little jealous that you are starting in your 30’s and have all the fun of elk hunting in great shape looking forward.

Your rifles will work fine but I like a premium bullets, Barnes TTSX specifically based on one BT failure & lots of Barnes successes Killing stuff & breaking bones. Likely 9 times out of 10 it makes no difference but better to avoid Murphy’s law.

I hunt public land in Colorado a couple of places border ranchers who hate public land hunters & do everything they can to keep them from recovering animals that cross the property line so I shoot a 300 Weatherby that I’m confident hitting targets to 700+ yards & elk out to 600 with no wind. We averaged about 300 yard shots mostly cross canyon so that is what we prepare for. Also a little jealous of big bulls on flat accessible ground - haven’t found that yet but heck half the fun is the challenge & adventure.

For me, it would be a toss up between the 7mm08 and 30-06. However, I'd switch bullets in your 30-06. I use gamekings in my 338, but I go heavy for caliber (meaning 250gr in the 338wm). This is general practice when considering the gameking bullet on elk. If you load your own, go with a 200gr Nosler partition. Wait for them to go on sale at SPS and you'll be good to go. If you need a good mild load that easily pokes clean through elk, shoot me a pm. I'd be glad to help you out there. I'm pretty familiar with the pre 64 model 70. As of right now, I have 2 fwt 30-06 rifles. I actually prefer these for hunting over the std wt pre 64, but a standard weight will work. If you use your 7mm08, use a good stout bullet. I believe Pharmseller here uses a 150gr Hornady ELDX for his elk hunting. That would be my choice, or a 150gr Nosler partition, if you can get it to shoot well in that Kimber. Practice quite a bit with each rifle, with the load you intend to shoot an elk with. After doing that, the decision may get easier for you, as to which one you prefer. Practice a lot of offhand and field positions, after finding that sweet load. Good luck with your elk hunt..

I’m all over the place. I ordered some 180 Accubonds for the Federal since I couldn’t locate any 160TTSX. At any rate I’ll be shooting a bunch with all three rifles between now and then. I’m sure I’ll come up with the pecking order eventually. I’ll order some of the 200 partitions for the 06’ and something for the 7/08. Really looking forward to this trip.

Listen to this guy. He actually knows what he's talking about.

If your .338 was a real .338 WM I'd say stoke with some 200gr NBT and H4350, but the '06 with 180gr PT will take care of business.

My buddy and I were in a similar situation on our first elk trip to central Montana. We debated for months if our 300 mags would be enough or if we should go get classic 338 elk killers. What if we had to take a 400 or 500 yard shot and so on. We went with the 300's since we already shot them well. Once we got there we found out the outfitter didn't want any of us shooting over 250 yards, so my 300RUM with a big Swaro scope turned out to be a little overkill, but I was lucky enough to take a nice 6x6 that didn't complain about being too dead.

During sight in I asked the outfitter (with 30+ years experience guiding) what he preferred for caliber, bullet and so on. He told me if every hunter would show up with a well worn 30-06 with a good 3-9 or even 2-8 scope, shooting 165 or 180 partitions his life would be a whole lot simpler. While I don't have near the experience with elk as many of the others here, I have gone on a few more trips since then, mostly cow hunts for meat but with the exception of last years 445 yard kill I could have easily gotten by with a 308 and 165 partitions or accubonds. I put the same question about caliber/bullet preference to all my outfitters, a couple of them wanted 7mm as a minimum but they all agreed that a 30-06 in good hands will kill any elk that walks. I did have one that said he liked his clients using 30 calibers but he personally used a 270wsm for everything.

Like others here have said, take the two that carry and shoot the best, put the absolute best glass on top (you can't hit what you can't see) as well as really good bino's that you don't mind looking through for several hours per day. Throw in a good pair of sturdy, well-worn boots and go have a blast.

I remember a few years back I had a chance to go on an elk hunt before my finances fell through that year. One reason my finances fell through was that everybody on the forum I was on was telling me I would need a 7 mag minimum. So I went and ended up buying both a 7 Remington Mag and a .300 WBY (long story about the two but really stupid of me for falling for all the magnum hype, I knew better). Then I come on here and for the last year I've read 50 people or more tell me they elk hunt with a .270 or 06 and even .308 and you just need a good bullet and have the skill to place the shot where it needs to be, both common sense and something someone who's hunted as much as me should know. WOW! What common sense is this? Anyway, after almost a year here I feel very confident in either my .270 or one of my .30-06s for elk. What can I say? If you've never been there-done that, you're at other people's mercy and really don't know what to believe if you're not comfortable with your knowledge.

Jeffrey--good luck. Lots of pressure in that unit. If you see a branch antlered bull, you better be prepared to pull the trigger.

Last time I was there, I went through the Darby check station on something like the 8th of November (+ or -) and they had had 2400 hunters, 120 elk. And they are only open on the weekends!

It's not very high there, so oxygen shouldn't be an issue.

I love playing the rifle games too, but have realized that it isn't as important as we like to make it. Any of your choices will work.

I love that valley. Maybe I'll get back there permanently one day.

The only suggestion I would offer is on the choice of bullet, as you stated. Personally, I won't use a Sierra for any hunting purpose. I have shot Nosler quite a bit, am absolutely confident in them, and would use a Partition or Accubond. I have never been disappointed. The bullet would no longer be a worry, and you could then focus on the really hard part of finding an elk and working into a shooting opportunity. Any sensible caliber will get the job done. Your 30-06 or 7mm-08 are great choices. Charlie Sisk coined the phrase, "Load Partitions, shut up, go hunting"

Oh, one more thing, can't believe I forgot...Semper Fi brother!!

Jeff, thank you for you service!

I can’t imagine your old 06 wouldn’t get it done. I’m partial to Barnes tsx/ttsx and might suggest one of those in 150-180 grains if you are concerned about your 180 Sierra. My mom took a 21” barreled 7/08 to Africa a few years ago with 140TTSX I loaded for her. It killed kudu, wildebeest, gemsbok and a very large zebra very handily. Good luck!

Ben

This

There are certainly "better" bullets you can pick for all-around elk hunting on unfamiliar ground with lots of unknowns than 180 grain Sierras in a 30-06. The problem isn't that they don't work. The problem is that they don't check all the variable boxes as well as some other bullets, like Partitions (and many others). I carry 200gr Partitions at 2600 when I carry a 30-06 after elk these days. It's sort of a "do it all" load for both the timber and open country shots. I'm fairly confident in the bullet, and very confident I can shoot it well.

All of your rifles will work just fine, so take what you want to hunt, and pick the bullet that sounds the coolest to shoot your elk with. Then shoot to kill, as in aim to hit the elk square in the vitals. Elk fever is still a big factor for me, and I've been hunting elk since I was 14, over 3 decades ago. I see other long-time elk hunters get it bad too sometimes. Handling your nerves and shooting well will be a bigger factor in preventing a rodeo than what caliber and bullet you pick.

For me, as it has always been, elk hunting is most about the boots and my physical endurance level. I've never shot one from next to a road. Others I have hunted with have had better luck than I have this way.

I hope yours is a successful hunt, with lots of great times and special memories. Hunting elk has been and continues to be one of the driving forces in my life, year-round. I love it, and got addicted to it a long time ago.

I'd be toting the 7'08. Not even close.

Thanks for all the advice. Been shooting all three a lot. Liking the idea of the 338F a lot. Narrowing down to a load with 180 Accubonds at 2800 with H322. Have loads in all three rifles that are performing so I’m feeling good about all that. 180 Partitions in the 06 are good and have 140 Accubonds doing well in the 7. Now I just have another 3 months or so to figure it out.

As you heard from others great to have confidence in your rifle, better to be able to catch your breath & be steady at the shot after running 200 yards uphill to get into position. Good boots & Best possible conditioning will have more to do with success.

You can probably guess which rifle I would use. Here's my Pre64 M70 30Gov't06. Was shooting Hornady 180gr SP's on this bull.

^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Love that pic.