Just booked my 1st western big game hunt. I have 1 center fire rifle - vanguard 257 wby mag. Thinking I might need to step it up a little for elk sized game.
Very interested in the Bergara Wilderness Ridge in 7mm rem mag or 300 win mag. Seems like a total package for $850.
Should I go with it or buy another vanguard since that is what I’m used to?
I know my 257 would work, but I’d rather have a heavier bullet for elk.
Just wanting to know if the Bergara is a quality rifle and if 7mm or 300 is the way to go.

It's a good excuse for another rifle but in all actuality that 257 with quality bullets is an excellent elk rifle unless you're hunting a bunch of dark timber. The optics to best utilize a 257 aren't the best for the deep woods. If I was getting a 2nd rifle in your situation I'd lean towards a bigger bore shorter range "timber gun" with minimal optics or open sights to cover a wider range of hunting conditions. My 2 cents.

Rusty75: I have actually killed Bull Elk with one of your option calibers - the 7m/m Remington Magnum.
I recommend it as a "do both" caliber (Elk and Mule Deer).
I use the wonderful 160 grain Nosler Partition in my 7m/m Remington Magnum.
Maybe a better solution would be to take along both Rifles (your 257 Weatherby Magnum for Deer and either a 7m/m Magnum or a 300 Winchester Magnum for Elk/Grizzly).
Among my friends and acquaintances here in Montana, that I consider to be very SERIOUS Elk Hunters, the 300 Winchester Magnum is the preferred caliber and has been for some time.
One of my "serious" Elk Hunting friends/partners has me sight in his 300 Winchester Magnums (he has 3 of these!) and his 300 Weatherby Magnums (he has two of these!) every year for him!
And believe me "recoil" becomes an issue with these 300 Magnums (at least with me!).
Best of luck with whichever you choose and on your Hunt.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Always a good argument for buying another rifle. Certainly no need for 7mag or 300 though, but go for it if you can handle the recoil. People have been killing elk with .243's for a long time. So the .257 with good bullets will do the job.
As always, it doesn't matter what is stamped on the case head,but how well you place the bullet in the elk where it needs to go.Taking a marginal shot or poorly placed bullet will yield the same results it if is a .243. .257mag or 300mag.

That Weatherby ammo is getting pretty pricey now, if you can find any. I'd look around and see what ammo is readily available before I chose.

I’d think an elk hunt is a great excuse for a new 7mm Rem myself.

Personally.....I’d prefer a bit more than a .25 caliber on a quite expensive guided elk hunt, or any elk hunt for that matter.

If you like and are comfortable with your Vanguard’s .....go for it. I’d be looking at a 7 MM and up for the hunt your paying for! memtb

Your rifle is fine for elk--just use a good bullet. Partition, TTSX, E Tip, etc.......

Any of these will work great on elk. To say the least, this isn't a complete list but these should be readily available and ammo not too hard to find. If you don't reload, factory ammo in the magnums will be pricey, probably $2/round or more.
The x'd ones are calibers that I've shot 3 or more elk with, all with very good results. On the lighter bullet sizes, I've shot a lot of elk with a 270 using 150 gr bullets. They work very well.

7mm Mag
7mm-08
270 x
308
30-06 x
300 WSM x
300 WM

Bergara and 7mm Mag are both excellent choices for elk and mule deer. I have a B-14 Woodsman in 6.5 Creedmoor - fantastic rifle. I consider it a Rem Model 70 done right. Good trigger, smooth action, great barrel, excellent accuracy in a rifle priced for the working man. Have to admit that I bought my B-14 mainly for the wood, but have been very pleased with it overall.

Choose whatever you like, but marginal hits with a bigger rifle can turn out ok. I have seen it numerous times... Placement is #1, but as Bob Hagel said choose a rifle that will be successful if things go wrong, and they will. They have been killing elk for years with a .243 and crippling them too.
Your ,257 will get things done, but depending on the country you hunt, you might want more bullet wt. at longer distances. If you are hunting heavy cover, big slow bullets are wonderful. If you are hunting open country, faster bullets from a .270 on up is what I would be looking at.
A rancher friend of mine shot over 100 elk with a 243.. All out of his hay fields. When he hunted otherwise the .270, 300 and 338 were his choices. You need to know what conditions these recommendations are made..

In most hunting instances the 257 Wby covers a great deal of the same characteristics as the 7mm Rem Mag. High velocity, long range capability, and specialized use. As stated by others, both platforms with their specialized optics are less desirable for close in work. Depending on where and what rifle season you’re hunting, big bulls in mid to late October and into early November are bedding in deep timber and remain close to heavy timber/deadfall areas through December from previous hunting pressures. The only thing that gets them moving out of cover is a tremendous snow event forcing them to lower elevations and forging. Neither 257 Mag or 7mm Mag is ideal for heavy timber hunting condition, however a 4x scoped 308 WCF or 30-06 with 165 gr or 180 gr loads are superb inside 200 yards and easily punch deadly holes at 400 yards. Will the magnums with variables in the 4x-16x/56mm scopes work, yeah, but not as versatile and handy as a 20”-22” barreled, 4x fixed scope in a 30 cal non magnum.

Comments like this always make me chuckle. Elk are hit bad and/or crippled every year with a plethora of cartridges, even the “respected” elk cartridges.

My first centerfire rifle was a .30-06. For many years it put an elk and a deer in my freezer, and all with standard cup and core Hornady and Sierra bullets.

Years later I was hunting sheep in one of Montana's unlimited bighorn sheep units using my .257 Ackley and 117 grain Sierra GK bullets. The morning of my planned last day in there I was going from my tent to where I wanted to find a ram when I heard a loud elk bugle close by. I hadn't seen a ram yet, and since elk season was open in the wilderness portion of that unit, I just hunkered down, and when that bull stopped about 75 yards in front of me, I put one of those little 117 grain Sierras just behind his shoulder, and he dropped in his tracks. He turned out to be my 2nd best 6x6 bull elk out of the 30 or so bulls that I've shot.

My favorite elk rifle now is my .300 Weatherby, but I have also killed elk with my 7 mm RM, my .30 Gibbs, a .30-40 Krag, and even a sharp stick. Bullet placement is the key!

Going on a new hunt is always a good reason for a new rifle, but many times, the rifle that we already have will work just fine. Instead, spend the money for the new rifle on shells, and practice, practice, practice.

Tough to beat your 257 for deer sized game. I’m an advocate for plenty of gun when trying to kill & recover an 800 lb bull elk. I switched from 7mm RM that did fine on elk to a 300 Weatherby that does noticeably better. The 7 doesn’t really improve on your horsepower that much but 300 is the classic elk caliber.

I shoot a vanguard & really like them but if Bergera feels good to you get it. The 300 Weatherby with a Zeiss V4 4-16 is really hard to beat for an elk gun. The Winchester 300 flavors aren’t far behind in effectiveness we use 180 grain Barnes in a couple of these & elk die pretty quickly with a reasonable shot.

This year my cow was one shot DRT as many have been but we hunt public & need to stop them quickly sometimes. First year elk hunter took 3 to kill his cow with a 7mm at 360 yards but she was close to the boundary so he kept shooting till she dropped. If you aren’t recoil shy I’d certainly go with the 300.

Ive killed elk with 270 Win, 7mm Rem mag, 300 WSM, 348 Win, 45-70, and 375 Ruger. To me, the 7 mag isn't a huge step up from the 257 Bee, with good bullets.

In the 7, Ive used 160 and 175 partitions, and 168 long range accubonds. I started with the lrab's which worked well on the first 5-6 cows, but began to notice they were pretty soft, especially if shot within 200 yds. They performed as designed, and they work great on deer, but I personally wanted better penetration on larger bulls so went to the partitions.

The 7 is a step up and a great round, but, if you want something bigger than the 257, then go big.

My vote would be a 300 magnum of any flavor. Ive used 180 partitions and 180 Swift Sirocco II's on elk. It will work both on deer and elk, and is a couple steps up from the 257. Good luck with your choice.

Manny

If you fail to cleanly kill an elk - any elk - with a 257 Wby, the fault is entirely your own.

If a DIY hunt, I would consider just using the .257 with a Partition or TSX. Though, it's never bad to have a back-up rifle. In that case, a 7mm Rem Mag or .300 would be just fine. Either a Bergara or Vanguard would be great. I used to be more of a .300 guy, but with time have come to see the attributes of the 7mm RM. It's a milder magnum with .30-06-level recoil.

If a guided hunt, definitely get a .300 or 7mm so you don't have to listen to the guide complain about your .257.

I've killed elk with various cartridges from 25-06 to .300, but have used a .270 Winchester more than any other. They're not bullet proof.

Oh yeah, Have fun! The best thing about elk and mule deer often is the country they live in.

I used my .257 WBY on a combo Elk and MD hunt and it worked perfectly. I used 100gr TTSXs and it dropped a bull the fastest I have ever seen, short of a CNS shot. I hit the bull quartering to me on the point of the shoulder and the bullet exited far back, opposite side. I would not hesitate to take it again.


However, another rifle is what it’s all about anyway, right? I mean, the next rifle is always the coolest!

Having a 257 WBY in hand, I would get a .300 of some flavor. That combination can do everything in North America, hands down.

It will be a semi guided hunt on 15000 acres of private land adjoining hard to access national forest.
I am very comfortable with my 257 wby out to 400.
The only reason I’m hesitant is that I shot a 225 lb whitetail at 325 yards this year and it didn’t flinch or move at 1st shot. I though I missed, so I shot again and the deer went down. When I got to the deer, there were 2 bullet holes 2” apart.

For an animal 3-4 times it’s size I feel like more bullet may be better. I really favor the 7mm rem mag from past experience and shoot ability, but the 300 win mag could be used for anything I would ever hunt. The Bergara wilderness ridge has a brake and enough weight to mitigate recoil enough for sufficient practice. It seems like a true out of the box rifle with no tinkering needed.

Always interesting to hear how bigger, badder bullets work better on shots that are somewhat misplaced. That has not been my experience on elk--or any other elk-sized animal.

A good friend has killed more than a few elk with the 257 Weatherby. He "stepped up" to the 7mm Remington Magnum for a while, but more recently stepped back down again--to the .25-06, and killed a 6x5 bull this fall.

Not that I would contradict Mule Deer when it comes to killing elk. But mathematics is my friend here. An excellent 100 grain bullet starting at 3200FPS at 450 yards placed well will kill elk all day. How far that big bull runs is hard to predict. That same excellent bullet weighing 180 grains starting at 3200 FPS at 450 yards will produce a very audible thump and a shorter run almost every time with the same good shot placement. It slso allows you to take shots through the shoulder if that is all you’ve got.

My 25-06 is perfectly capable of killing an elk, but I use my 300 Weatherby because I only get one elk hunt a year and I want every advantage.

I have shot many elk with a variety of cartridges and with a few hit and lost. I doubt that many hunters can hunt their entire lives and not have one or two get away. I have never had one, not recovered with a 300WM. I have lost one hit with a 7mm Mashburn, two with a 50 MZ and two deer with bad hits with an 06. The 300 WM has always been my first choice.

I have been lucky enough to recover all the elk I have hit about 20 using a 7mm RM and a 300 Wby. But a 600 yard trailing job in the snow convinced me to change to Barnes & then to the Weatherby. They aren’t bulletproof and will die from a lung shot but if you at 200 yards from a boundary they may not die soon enough to easily recover - permission to enter, wait for warden, prove blood trail & hope the rancher doesn’t choose to tag your animal.

I’ve stopped a bull & a cow shot by other members of our group that would have gotten away (had the tags so legal) both would certainly have died in a steep canyon on private and the bull had one through a lung top of heart & shoulder. If you hunt on a big ranch where no other hunters will potentially shoot your fatally wounded animal & you are an expert tracker who limits their shots to 200 yards - by all means use 243, 257, 6.5 they all kill elk. I’m not in that situation & want my elk dead and on the ground in less than perfect conditions.

The no apparent reaction to the shot is extremely common with elk shot through the lungs. Lots of hunters have shot an elk twice watch it walk over the hill and think they missed. When you get there see the blood & dead elk a hundred yards from where it was hit there is a big relief but no reaction or walking away is fairly common in my experience so following every shot to make sure you missed is essential.

Rusty75,

Game animals act differently, period. We have all seen weird things. Nobody here would say a 270 Win is an inadequate rifle for cow elk. I had cow elk take 4 rounds of 270 win 150 grainers at 150 yards all in a 6 inch circle of the heart lung region. It just stood there and then walked off. I was out of ammo. It walked about 50 yards then fell down.

I was the "guide" on a moose hunt. The bull was shot at 65 yards with a 7mm-08. Dropped at the shot and died, complete pass thru behind the shoulder.

The next year, I shot a moose 308 win 168 grain TTSX destroyed the heart. The bulled ran about 80 yards before it collapsed.

Do not base your rifle choice on one event.

That being said, my preference is something 7mm or above.

In thirty years of being around elk hunters from near and far, I am thoroughly convinced that the biggest mistake a hunter can make, is to buy new, more powerful rifle to bring on a first time elk hunt.

I’ll fall back on that Scandinavian study that showed on a LOT of moose, there was almost no discernible difference in how quick moose died from the 6.5 Swede to the 375.

Elk are not bullet proof.
Shot placement and at those velocities, proper bullet construction a must..
but you can’t go wrong with 7 or 300. Plus it’s a great excuse to buy a new rifle

Start practicing shooting, using your rifle, and RF out to 400 yards or so off your pack, kneeling, sticks etc .. Lots of off hand shooting out to 150 200 yards ( whatever your comfortable distance). With elk, based on my experience, shot opportunities come and go quickly. So if shot opportunity comes up better be quick to react and shoot. Just as important as your rifle. Plus side I like 30 cal and heavy bullets for shoulder and high shoulder/ neck shots if want to try and minimize running longer distances. You'll be fine with 257 for heart lung area type shots and good that you're comfortable with this rifle

While a poorly placed (for whatever reason) shot into the guts certainly will not be an immediate kill on elk sized game....a hit from a larger, heavier, fast large caliber rifle may slow the animal enough to provide the hunter with a “mulligan”! A lesser cartridge may not provide that extra few seconds.

The above comment was derived from “empirical data” as an “eye witness”! 😉

A perfectly placed knitting needle will quickly kill an elk, poorly placed.....may take a while! 🤔 memtb

I’ve harvested dozens of elk and seen at least that many shot. My elk averaged 300+ yards so I was set up for longer shots. I’ve seen lots of elk shot with 243 to 30-06 rounds. When properly hit, they died. However, very few ever gave any indication of being hit and all ran off. Because bullets rarely exited, blood trails were not ideal. Most of my elk were killed with 210 partitions out of a 338 or 340wby. Everyone was visibly rocked and most were bang flops or only took a couple shots. Those 210 partitions almost always exited leaving racquetball sized holes and impressive but unneeded blood trails. I killed several with a 300wby, 300win and a 7mmSTW. When using cup and core bullets, they killed very quickly. The rub with the cup and core bullets is their performance at timber ranges becomes an issue if shoulder joints are hit. When using partitions or accubonds, they performed nearly as well as the 210 partitions.

I never go a non-local hunt without taking a back-up rifle. With premium bullets your 257WBY will function very well as a back up for elk and as a primary for mule deer. As far as a new western rifle, I’d look at anything from the 300wsm and bigger otherwise there’s just not a lot of step up from your 257.

FWIW, my longest shots on deer and antelope were with the 210 partitions (500+yds) so if you jump up to 338/340, you’ll have a hammer on deer and antelope as well. Although the magnums with proper bullets do better on marginal shots, your first priority needs to be your proficiency under field conditions. If the magnum recoil is impacting your accuracy, you’d be better off with a 30-06 shooting 165-200grain bullets (this assumes you are a handloader and am getting full potential out of the 30-06). Bullet diameter and mass matters on big bulls if you need to take quartering shots.

I guess I’m missing it. IME on elk and oryx, I have not seen where a .338 Win.mag. misplaced shot was any better than a .308 Win misplaced shot.

I think some people see what they want to see.

I have posted before that the .300 Weatherby is the King of elk cartridges, if you can shoulder the recoil. Any of the other big .30’s will do just fine also. Choose a good rifle and practice.

It's called confirmation bias - this thread is rife with it.

I'm betting that was a classic case of shock. I had a smallish bull do the same thing, 4 rounds through the lungs and it just stood there. Your 1st round probably hit a major artery and the blood pressure plummeted, throwing her into shock. Her brain shut down and she just stood there bleeding out inside. Shock is when the major organs don't get enough blood. It can be caused by many things but bullet holes are a good cause of it.

The go to combination, in our household, is the 300 win with 200 grain accubonds. Bull and cow elk, whitetails, mule deer, antelope, bear, and oryx have all been taken with that combo. Ranging from up close, to 528 yards (the wife's NM oryx). Bullet performance is boringly consistent, and to date, no animals lost and very few requiring any tracking.

While the wife and daughter use this as their primary set up, I have often used other cartridges....that are more specialized to the hunt I'm on. .308, 30-06, heavy 35 Whelen, 375 H&H, various 338 win and 338 rum, all have come into play. BUT, everything that I've done with them, in the continental US, could have been done with the tried and true 300 win/200 ab combo.

Andy3

Very interesting. I have killed more elk (including my biggest bull, in both body and antler) with the .30-06 that any other cartridge, usually but not always with 200-grain Nosler Partitions. None has ever gone over 50 yards before falling.

Have seen the 210 Partition from a .338 Winchester Magnum stopped by an average-size Montana whitetail buck. It was a quartering-away shot, and the bullet entered the left side of the ribcage and ended up in the right shoulder. We found the bullet while skinning the buck a little white later, and the guy who shot it wouldn't believe it was his bullet until I put a caliper on the base.

Indeed.

Have shot several elk with my .257 weatherby. Partition bullets work great.

Based on my experience, it seems very suspect that this observation is caused by a difference in caliber or bullet weight, as you are implying. Large animals getting rocked or DRT by shoulder-fired rifles is strongly correlated with the bullet hitting or passing very close to the CNS, IME. Bullet placement and performance have been far more reliable predictors of the reaction of large game to getting shot, compared to any other factor (including bullet caliber and weight).

I would have no hesitation in chasing ~1000 lbs game animals with the .257WM if loaded with something like a 100 gr TTSX. Of course, something like a 7RM or .300WM is also very effective with the right bullet selection and placement, but there's no reason not to use your .257WM if that's what you want to do.

I’ve hunted elk far less than many of the guys reporting. I carried a 308 on my first hunt and had a close encounter with a brown bear. After that I carried either a 338 or 350 with 250 partitions.
Last year I was pretty sure that the area didn’t have big bears, - blacks but not browns. I carried a 270 and it worked well on the lead cow.
I think most cartridges from 308 or 7x57 on up work well. But as I wrote, I’m just a beginner compared to others here.

I know a guy who used a 25-35 and it worked for him. I wouldn’t recommend that cartridge though. His dad owned probably more land in the Black Hills in good elk country than any one else. He was lying down and shot a elk that passed nearby. There was no other people hunting, likely, for miles.

I haven't shot many elk compared to some. One with a 270win, spine hit and down. Some with a 30-06 and most with a 50 cal muzzleloader. Spine hits fell right now. Lung hits ran about 30 yards and fell. Some kicked awhile others not. Hardly ever any blood trail. They got elastic self sealing hide. The do kick up the ground when they run. Found everyone by noting the location at impact and direction of travel afterward. One I had to use the enlarging circle technique. Mostly because I was excited and missed the signs.

Strange stuff happens at times and many times a bigger cartridge won't necessarily solve the issue. I had a problem on similar shot (left side, quartering) on an Oryx a few years ago that turned into a rodeo because evidently, the 180 Barnes out of a .300 Weatherby didn't reach the vitals.

I’d go with the 7mm if it were me. 300WM is a bunch of extra recoil for no real reason.

Why stop there? May as well go with a 270. Kicks a little, kills a lot.

I have to chuckle a bit when I hear how bulletproof elk must be in some of the areas these guys hunt... and the fact that a rifle that is perfectly fine for killing elk in open country is suddenly useless when you enter the brush or trees... It has been proven over and over that shooting through brush to hit a game animal is a fools errand and usually results in a wounded animal. Big, slow bullets deflect in brush just like fast and smaller bullets do and any bullet that doesn't hit its mark isn't going to do you much good regardless of the charge of powder behind it ....

About the only elk I can remember losing is one my son shot with my 300 H&H Improved (basically a 300 Weatherby). He grabbed the wrong bullets when he left the truck that morning so he was shooting 180 grain Hornady Spire points instead of the Nosler Partitions he and I prefer. I watched as a herd of elk trotted by and he hit the lead cow in the shoulder. When she ran off she left a blood trail Stevie Wonder could follow for about 200 yards, then it stopped. It was obvious from the tracks she lost the use of the leg that was shot and I saw the ripples of the shock through her side as the bullet struck, but she was nowhere to be found and we tracked her all day long with at least 4 people for miles... if that bullet had been a few inches back, dead elk right there- but the bullet failed on the large shoulder bone and didn't penetrate.

Anyone who has spent enough time on public land and talked to other hunters (and some in our own camps) realize that you could give a guy a cannon and an elk broadside at 50 feet and a lot of people would make a bad shot and blame it on the rifle, cartridge, the wind, etc... anything but lousy shooting.... but we've also known those guys who go out every hunt with their trusty 270 and call a couple hours later to help drag their game out....

IMO, I would spend the money on the perfect scope for the situation than a different cartridge that you're unfamiliar with...

Bob

While I make no apologies for my bias towards my .300 Weatherby, I’ve seen a dump truck load of elk cleanly killed by 7mm magnums, .300 Win Mags/WSM, and .35 Whelen. The last 4 bulls I killed in the last 5 seasons dropped quickly when hit with a 168 gr TTSX from the .300 Roy at ranges of 240 to 307 yards, although I experienced the same results with 150 gr TTSX from my 7mm Weatherby. Also, lots of one-shot drops with 160 gr TBBC from my son’s 7mm Rem Mag. So, lots of great options out there. The .300 Wby has just been my “lucky charm” the past several years and I see no reason to mess with the karma.

This ^^
I would have recommend the as 270 well. The 7 mag doesn’t offer that much more shooting 140s. Except more recoil!

But it seems like when guy a gets the magnum bug for elk. It’s hard to convince them otherwise.
Maybe the 6.8 western? I see their ammo is available all the time

How long until your hunt?
Do you have, or have ready access to components or ammo for one or both the 7 or 300?

I killed 1 cow w/257Wby and 100TSX. I shot her through the lungs in her bed @ ~275yds, she struggled to her feet and dropped back into her bed on the 2nd shot.
I killed 9 more w/300Win using 200gn TSX and 2 w/200partitions from the 300.

I prefer the 300Win as IME an elk doesn't "shrug-off" being hit w/one. What I mean is there's a very definite reaction to the shot vs. what I've seen w/the 257Wby and several elk shot w/270Win.

Jordan,

The last elk I saw "visibly rocked" was the biggest cow either my wife and I have taken, as large as many branch-antlered bulls. Though it managed to stumble 20-25 yards before falling, it was obviously dead on its feet.

Eileen killed it at 250 yards with her "big" rifle, a custom .308 Winchester, using 130-grain Barnes TSXs handloaded to 2850 fps--which result about as much recoil as she can stand anymore, even with the rifle's muzzle brake. The cow was quartering toward us, and the bullet landed in the thick bone just above the left shoulder joint. We found it under the hide over the right ribs, retaining 62% of its weight due to losing all its petals.

John,

Your story is not believable. Only chamberings .300 Mag and up have that effect.

Well, if I was doing THAT, I’d go with a 6.5 something or the other.

Fair enough, but I personally wouldn’t/ don’t hunt elk with 140’s from my 7mm’s. I use 160-gn class bullets.

How many elk have you shot with a 25 caliber? How many have you seen shot by a 257 Weatherby? What was their reaction? I’ve seen a big mule deer shot at 300 yards, it took 2 in the chest to stop him.

I realize it’s trendy to hunt elk with a 6lb 6.5 Creedmoor & that most guys under 40 assume heavy kicking rifles are impossible to shoot well. But before the rapid testosterone loss generation people shot fast flat shooting magnums. More because of range finding limitations than horsepower but the horsepower works if you can shoot them accurately.

Please let me know the next time an elk does a backflip when hit by a little caliber at 550 yards. My 300 Weatherby afforded me that lovely sight a few years ago - some really cool kind of confirmation bias there.

I have to ask - your 25-06 using friend - is he hunting highly pressured public land or on the neighbors ranch? If you are the only hunter for miles on a big private ranch a 600 yard run isn’t a big deal & your shots tend to be fairly close. I know here & elsewhere hunters describe picking up their elk with a front end loader - that a different kind of hunting than most people. Nothing wrong with it just different.

Elk rifle threads are always a hoot.

He mostly hunts public land. The 6x5 bull he killed this past fall was taken on BLM ground in the Missouri Breaks, in an area which gets considerable pressure. He and his brother (who also had a bull tag) hiked a total of over 100 miles, according to their GPS's, before finding their bulls.

My buddy's bull never moved after the shot. I sincerely doubt that he would use any cartridge on elk that allowed them to go 600 yards after a well-placed shot--but then again, I have seen elk taken with a wide variety of cartridges, and haven't seen one go 600 yards with any of them with a basic double-lung shot.

He used to primarily use 7mm and .300 Magnums but eventually grew weary of the recoil after he found out smaller cartridges, shot accurately, killed them just as dead. One of the "transitional" cartridges he used considerably when down-sizing was the .257 Weatherby, and it worked fine. He's 63 years old, and has been hunting elk for 50 years. Might not have taken 100, but probably a least 70-75.

May I ask roughly how many elk you've killed? Cows and/or bulls?

By far more important to choose a bullet that will work in the way you use it. Diameter isn't very important, velocity can be if the bullet won't perform at the velocity you're using it at, in the chosen shot placement.

I'm old enough that when I started out bigger bullets did work better. A lot has changed in the last few decades. Bullets are better now than many believed would be possible back then. Do some homework on your choices of bullets in ballistic gel and compare. Then compare a smaller cartridge with similar bullets.

There really isn't as much difference in wound cavity as many believe.

Not nearly as many as some folks here having to travel to hunt them but 5 bulls & 15 cows all on public land. 1 with a 30-06, most with a 7mm Rm the last several with the 300 Weatherby. The 600 yard run I reference was hit exactly where I aimed behind the front shoulder with an older Nosler Ballistic tip. Palm sized entry wound shrapnel through the lungs. But I’ve seen lung hit elk go over 100 yards more than a few times. Including elk shot with a 300 of some kind.

Agreed! And we're lucky enough to have two going on at the same time ...

You’re not buying success by buying a different cartridge.

So this made me contemplate the longest run I can remember on any elk. It was a bull that I shot through and through at about 45 yards, just behind the humerus, as a central double lung hit. I didn't hit the heart or any of the blood vessels at the top of the heart. I also did not break a rib, so there was no additional bone shrapnel. That was a 7mm RM, 175 grain Nosler Partition. That bull ran about a quarter mile - 440 yards more or less - and was going full tilt when he hit a tree, broke a tine off, and finally came to rest. The fastest human time for a 440 yard dash is 44.5 seconds; an elk can probably at least double that. So a 600 yard run could be accomplished in well under a minute. A dead elk can easily live that long.

I will note that most elk shot with that rifle and load have taken few steps if any. Those were mostly hits that involved secondary projectiles in the form of bone shards, and often took the vessels at the top of the heart in addition to double lung damage. All had entry and exit wounds. I have never recovered one of those bullets. Any caliber and load that is similar ought to perform about the same, given similar hits. Enough have been listed in this thread to get the idea.

But, a point was made that you might not want an elk to run 600 yards, or even 440, especially if you have grizzly bears present. A longer tracking job may allow the "competition" to join in with the tracking. So it is a valid point that you don't want to use a combination that may not be as effective as quickly as some others. That bull of mine covered that distance a lot faster than I did tracking. There was no snow. Over that whole distance I found some running tracks in pine needles and one spot of blood the size of my little fingernail. Despite the entrance and exit wounds, he left no real blood trail. I was lucky to find him quickly. Even with a very effective combination, sometimes things don't go according to hopes or plans. Thus, I subscribe to the thought that you should use a caliber and load that is adequate when things are not perfect. And also, I try to put the bullet where it will do the most damage to vitals. Field conditions seldom allow bench precision.

I shot a large cow at 11 yards through both lungs with a 7mm RM 150 grain TTSX. She snuck up behind me in crunchy snow thought it was another hunter until she popped out from behind a tree awkward point & shoot. Through both lungs she ran about 100 yards dropped just before I could shoot her again but that was at almost powder burn range. Only a short way from where an ATV could get with a rope. One of the 2 elk I was able to get out whole. We were exhausted from packing out a bull the day before and wanted to hunt somewhere flatter - turned out to be a great “rest” hunting day. My partners both had close calls chasing elk that were pushed through the woods one pushed a cow into other hunters who shot it after trailing it for a mile.

If you were to peel an elk hit by a 257 WBY pushing a 115 Grain Partition and one hit in the exact same spot with a 150 Partition pushed by a 7 mag, I doubt you'd be able to tell which one was hit with what.

I can't tell the difference in damage to a deer imparted by a 60 grain Partition launched from a 223 and a 115 launched from a 257 Roberts.

If you are simply looking for something different, you could rebarrel your 257 to 7mmRM and save some money buy not buying a new scope and could always have your smith change it back from time to time as necessary.

Have you ever handled a Bergara Wilderness Ridge to know how it fits you? It may or may not make a difference in how well you will shoot it. As will the increased recoil, especially from a .300 WM.

I am absolutely sure that would be the case out to a certain distance say 350-400 yards. Even a 25-06 should produce similar results out to 300? Something of a guess where ft. Lbs drop off to under 1500. And then bullet performance gets less effective and the potential for a lost animal goes way up. Shorter than that going through bone. I recommend to get more performance than his great 257 Bee that the OP skips the 7mm and goes with a 300 of some flavor to get noticeable improvement.

Using my 180 grain TTSX 300 Weatherby load vs a partition 115 gr 257 velocities are still over 2,000 FPS at 500 yards but energy is rounded 1100 vs 2000 foot pounds. One is hopeful the other capable. Nobody who isn’t selling fancy rifles wants to take that long a shot - but it is nice to have the horsepower to do so. Particularly handy if they are wounded and on the way out of public land or your hunting area.

270 Win, 30 06, and 7MM Mag are like peas in a pod and would use any one of them over the 257 Bee. I'vew never used the 300 Winchester, but my 300 H&H worked well. I know all about bullet placement, you can kill a moose with a .22 Long Rifle if you put the 40 grain bullet between its eyes! Always bring enough rifle! Seems like hunters recently think using a lesser caliber rifle means you have a bigger dick, or at least a bigger man bun.

I’ve asked this before, but have never got a good answer.

What is magical about 1500 pounds? If within the velocity window of a bullet, what is 1500 going to do that 1100 won’t?

Finally got to hold a bergara wilderness ridge in 300 win mag today. I must say I’m pretty impressed. Lot of rifle for the money.
After much thought I am going to purchase the bergara, just trying to decide between the 7mm rem mag and the 300 win now.
I have had numerous 7 mags and had no issues with recoil on them.
Leaning that way and shooting heavy for caliber bullets. Have until mid November to practice.

1100 foot pounds gets you in the range of the mighty 222 Remington. Less than a 223 at the muzzle. Less than a 45 long colt pistol generates. So if you advocate elk hunting with your cowboy pistol than 1100 ft pounds seems the right benchmark. It is a 150 yard 30-30 that has killed plenty of elk. If you shoot your elk in the ear hole all of those work fine. My grandfather used the 30-30 rifle to kill a deer at 500 yards - they needed the meat - I think he killed it with the 4th shot - in the head.

I’ve heard minimums of1000 for deer & 1500 for elk as long as I can remember but after killing a couple of deer with a 30-30 I’ve never really looked for minimal killing power. At 17 I bought a 7mm RM because the most knowledgeable gun guy I knew used one. Not sure what motivates someone to flirt with barely adequate killing power and feel if you want to be handicapped a bow is a better tool than an underpowered rifle.

A .243 is more than capable for elk and mule deer. But everyone needs more than one rifle, good luck on your hunt. My advice is, practice shooting under hunting conditions not off a bench and bags.

You have a misunderstanding of how kinetic energy translates to tissue destruction. Or at least you're applying it incorrectly. Kinetic energy is not the dominant factor in the lethality of a bullet. When a bullet has sufficient momentum to penetrate through whatever comes before the vitals in its trajectory, and enough velocity to expand adequately, it does plenty of damage to be promptly lethal.

Understand lethality of a projectile - bullet, ball or arrow - isn’t as simple as a measure of foot pounds but that is the standard used by ammunition manufacturers as an apples to apples comparison so it’s what I used. There are various knock down or killing power measurements but none are so widely accepted.

As I indicate shooting elk in the brain through ears or eyes let’s almost any gun work. My assumption is a classic 50-500 yard heart lung shot as the basis with a challenging angle or shoulder forward shot presentation where you might have to penetrate bone or more paunch to reach the vitals. I’ve killed elk with neck shots & finished cows with head shots but don’t assume that. I’m more comfortable having enough gun - others prefer staying nearer the minimum required to preserve their shoulders? Hearing? Ego? something else?

Even assuming identical shot placement, there are still a number of factors that go into the amount of tissue destruction that a projectile does. Assuming equal shot placement and equal kinetic energy at impact, which does more damage to vitals (with a humerus bone in the path before the bullet can reach the vitals), a .224" 50 TTSX or a .45" 230 HP? Assume that both arrive with enough velocity to experience "full" expansion. It's an over-simplification to equate kinetic energy at impact and tissue damage to vitals.


Typically, it's shot placement. Shot placement precision tends to be proportional to volume of practice and inversely proportional to recoil, muzzle blast, and ammo cost.

I’m fortunate to go on a couple youth elk hunts almost every year. Unless dad is projecting, almost everyone of them is using .243, 7/08, 6.5 Creed, .308 etc. Some of them use my .243 after dad has beat them up with his rifle for a couple months before the hunt.

My daughter and son have both killed multiple elk with a .243. You can call it ego, or whatever you like, but it just works. It’s funny that women and kids can kill the sh it out of things with marginal cartridges, but men need much bigger.

Has there been a couple rodeos in the years? Absolutely, but not because “energy/ knock down power (that one cracks me up) was below 1500. Everyone of them was poor shot placement.

Every once in awhile, I need a dual wheel 3500. I’ll keep driving the 2500 and dealing with that rare time I need more.

My wife once mentioned essentially said the same thing to a guy who asked if a .243 was really big enough to kill a mule deer. He was one of those convinced anything less than some sort of .33 magnum couldn't kill an elk cleanly, mostly because he'd read too much Elmer Keith and had never hunted elk with anything less than a .340 Weatherby.

I would be interesting to know how many elk specneeds has seen shot with smaller cartridges. I have seen quite a few elk taken, but over the decades also have gotten to talk with many guides who've seen a LOT more taken. One was a Colorado outfitter whose clients regularly killed 30-50 elk a year, and he'd been at it for decades. I asked him what he thought was a good minimum cartridge. He said .257--whereupon I asked, "Roberts or Weatherby?" He immediately responded, "Either one!"

I then asked about the .243 Winchester, and he said nobody had ever brought one, but suspected it would work as well.

But whatever....

With the right bullet, small calibers are VERY effective:

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

If I was building a gun now, it would be a Tikka with a 1/7 .22 CM tube shooting 88 ELDs.

My Aunt over on the adjoining ranch shot everything - coyotes, mulies, black bear, and elk with her .257 Roberts and Core-Lokts.

Always seemed a bit puzzled when hunters showed up with 300 WM, Weatherby, etc.

Mule Deer, unlike some of the altruistic members here, SLM, giving back to multiple youth hunters. I’ve brought several first timers doing my small part but have to admit I’ve never seen an elk killed with less than a 30-06. Since I believe in use enough gun it would be a little hypocritical to encourage less.

Most youngsters & inexperienced women need to limit recoil & also shooting distances.

My 12 year old grandson was able to hit elk vitals targets at 600 yards with his 06 before he went - the youngest I’ve taken. I did train 115 lb woman archer how to shoot rifles for a competitive TV hunting show. She was able to handle my light Remington Classic 375 H&H shooting a charging Buffalo target so some women can handle heavy recoil. She did make one shot kills on Oryx & Audad- a 270 was used on those 2.

Recoil shy hunters should shoot what they can handle. My son hates the recoil from a 300 weatherby, used my braked 7mm for elk & hunts deer with a 243. He’s seen elk run off public land so when it was time to buy an elk gun he bought a 300 Win mag but put a muzzle brake on it.

First son in law is adding a muzzle brake to his 300 Weatherby but won’t give up that thump & stop that he never got shooting his 7 mag.

If you think 257 is an elk gun - use it. I’ll stick to 30-06 & larger even if I have to add brakes, lead weights & special recoil pads as I get older.

You said it all... The next ranch over. Called private land. I have no problem with it, but it is a different hunt.

Then get the 300!

And those that base cartridge preference on "numbers" (in this case ft lbs energy) usually have the least amount of game experience with a variety of cartridges. In an effort at controlling the wild world, males typically want to reduce everything to some sort of mathematical formula, but it's funny how life (and in this case death/lethality) just doesn't fit in those neat little boxes.

Better to shoot something you're familiar and comfortable with. A good bullet in the right place will kill any elk that ever walked.

After 51 years of deer hunting & 22 years of elk hunting I haven’t com close to killing nearly as many 1/4 large creatures as I’ve killed squirrels with a 22. But when it comes to killing effectively my 17 HMR is much better. It’s a lighter faster smaller diameter projectile. But that extra speed & horsepower translates to about double the effective range and drastically more tissue damage. At closer ranges 12 gauge birdshot is better than either. The better tools cost much more per shot when it comes to ground squirrels.

When it comes to elk hunting the price difference between a 257, 243, 270 and some kind of 300 magnum is minuscule for a hand loader & tiny for premium factory ammo so I’ll use the more efficient tools every time for elk. Deer are a different story since all the smaller rifles do very well.

Cheaper by far to zap them with a reusable arrow but sadly ground squirrels are beyond my archery skills & elk way too tasty to use less efficient methods.

The most "efficient" rifle for elk is the one you're comfortable with and shoot well, not a new rifle you're unfamiliar with, which has increased recoil.

And recoil absolutely enters into it... those that don't think so are deluded.

specneeds,

Am not surprised that you admit to never seen an elk killed with a cartridge smaller than the .30-06, apparently because you knew everything about "appropriate" cartridges before you ever hunted elk.

and there you have it......

It doesn't take long reading this thread to see who has or hasn't killed more than a few elk in their career. There are a lot of elk hunters, but only a few guys who actually kill elk on a really regular basis. I count myself somewhere in the middle but after watching enough people who I shoot with and talk to about elk and deer hunting on a pretty regular basis I know a few things. The guys who shoot a lot for some reason seem to be the guys who take elk and other game on a regular basis and the guys who are familiar with their rifles are especially efficient at taking care of business. The one thing that they have in common is they don't shoot high recoiling rifles all the time for practice. At the range, heavy recoil is detrimental to getting familiar with your rifle. If after a few shots you don't really want to shoot any more with that rifle, it pretty much ensures you won't be sure of your shot in the field.

I'm pretty much not recoil shy but I have my limits- which I found were in the 375 H&H area for range work... and for years I kept plugging along at the range with my 338 WM, 300 H&H AI, 300 WM, etc... knowing someday I would need to shoot across canyons or winter wheat fields to collect my elk. In 48 years of hunting elk that has happened 3 times in total. To be honest I convinced myself that I couldn't have made those shots with any lesser cartridges and still wonder to this day if the ballistics of a lesser cartridge would have reaped the benefits of those magnum rounds at 600 yards or there about... after watching several of my buddies and my brother drop down to lighter cartridges in the 30-06/270 class, I started to question my choices. No doubt the magnums have been very effective, but they didn't really give me any end result a smaller cartridge wouldn't have knowing my ballistics as I did the magnums.

I have to laugh now after reading this thread that my answer to my question was to build a new rifle in 26 Nosler and shoot the 140 Grain Accubonds as a do-it-all rifle. In the couple years I have hunted with it I've had opportunity to shoot one spike elk and it dropped in its tracks. It may take a few years to find out how effective my new "smaller" rifle is, but I still wouldn't have a problem going up or down in cartridge horsepower to hunt deer, elk, bears, or just about anything any more... I have hunted elk a couple times with my 270 with no opportunities and deer with a 25-06, 30-06, 270, and a 300 mag, all with about equal results on game.

It is evident there is no right or wrong to this argument and it will go on long after we are gone. But I am convinced a lot of "smaller" cartridges are quite capable of taking any game in North America in capable hands. And are easier for recoil sensitive shooters to master in a shorter time. So, the question is- if you can recommend a 270/25-06/243/6.5 CM/7-08 etc.. for a child or woman to shoot elk/deer/bears with, why isn't it sufficient for a man to hunt with?

If you can’t comfortably shoot a rifle with more recoil than a 30-06 don’t.

Assuming everyone has the same limitations shooting a hard kicker a few times at game & a few dozen rounds in preparation is rather small minded. It’s apparently in fashion to shoot smaller rounds at animals 2-4X the size of a deer.

My average shots at 24 elk over 20 years is just under 300 yards & less than 400 yards from a private boundary. For what I’m doing a 300 Weatherby is a better tool than a 257,270 etc. I seldom do more than a 20 round box of those in a year & can’t think that harms my accuracy or gives me a flinch. But for those of you wanting to insist that less is more hopefully you have the restraint to stay within your rifles limitations.

OMG these threads make my head explode. Lots of opinions not supported by experience.
Note: reading ballistic charts isn’t experience.

Your 257 Wby is just fine, actually a pretty good choice. Use great bullets.

Rusty - You must be pumped & wondering all sorts of things related to preparedness for Elk hunting must be going thru your mind!

If you ‘want’ a bigger rifle get it - you don’t need one tho. Elk hunting is super big mental game and it’s more important to bring a rifle that you don’t have to worry about shooting well without thinking about it. I’d put more emphasis on the durability & function of your current rifle if it were me.

I’d put way more thought into personal conditioning, clothing layers, boots, binos & sleep systems - put a TTSX into that sweet quarter-bore and spend your money on the stuff that will minimize the physical & mental burdens.

Elk are just big ole deer - noting more. However they are WAY more intense to hunt because of their habits and the terrain they occupy.

Let us know how your hunt goes & save the ivories!

Have to throw in my two cents worth - maybe a different perspective given that I have always lived in elk country (south central MT). Have shot quite a few elk over the years with a bunch of different calibers, not because I thought something larger or smaller was needed, but because using different rifles is the fun of it for me. Last four years I shot a cow with a 7x64, 5x5 bull with a .270 Win, 6x7 bull with a .300 H&H & this most recent fall a 5x5 bull with a .416 based on a .325 case. Didn’t feel under-gunned with any of them. Pick your shot, use a decent bullet, & shoot the rifle you are comfortable with. Will say that I probably won’t use the .416 again, was a broadside lung shot at maybe 125 yds & he ran farther than any of them. 350 gr Speer, don’t think it ever slowed down. Wasted a lot of energy somewhere on the exit side. Hunting parter thought I missed based on the reaction of the elk. Found it maybe 75 yards off in the timber. Hunting partners comment? “Maybe there is such a thing as too much gun”. Not saying I have all the answers, but have killed a truckload of them in the last 40 years & really believe the hunter with a rifle he is comfortable with, with decent bullets, regardless of the caliber, is on the right track.

Great post. As is yours POC..

I agree with Rick as well. Burn some ammo in that 257 with great bullets and you’ll never know you weren’t using a 270

Here's a photo of a buddy of mine on a hunt we did together a decade ago. It was his first elk, taken with one shot from his .257 Weatherby Magnum, using a "primitive" 120-grain Nosler Partition--which exited. The bull made it 75 yards before falling--but only because it was on a very steep slope, and headed downhill until it ran head-on into a big Douglas fir, obviously dead on its feet.

Barely kilt him

Good bull for a first or even a 10th in my book.

Nosler Partitions still work these days? 😜

My horn obsessed brother would say you'd need either a 300 WM or 5 rounds from a .30-06 to take that bull.

Why? 'Cause it took him 5 rounds ...

If you can’t find CoreLokts they’ll do in a pinch

A 100gr Core-Lokt in .243 is devastating on elk and mule deer as far as I'm concerned. I've killed one of each with a .243 and neither one took a step. Personally I don't care to shoot a rifle with a muzzle brake, the only thing worse than the added noise is the residue - dust being blown around. Putting some trigger time in with whatever your going to hunt with is the key to success.

I can’t decide on who the pecker-measurers are, the big mangleum fans or the tiny mousegunners? I’m betting on the small bore dudes with the little peckers trying to convince everyone else their junk is adequate. Man up, use enough gun! LOL

Haha Yep!

My Dad, to this day, still wonders why I reload - even though I fed his 300 Win with Horn 180’s for years when a guy can just buy 5 boxes of Corelokt 180’s and not know the difference he claimed.

I told him it’s just that HE can’t see the difference (I lied to him 😜 nobody can see the difference - at least I never could)

I guess I never tied a cartridge on either side to masculinity.

If I had to chose, I’d go with overcompensating like a lifted truck to the magnum chest thumpers.

Pretty sure an elk doesn’t care either way.

Two whole critters, huh? That’a boy! LOL

Here's another one, This bull was shot at 345 yards, a little after sunset, with a 180-grain Nosler Partition factory load (Federal as I recall) from a 20" barreled .30-06--which probably resulted in a muzzle velocity around 2600 fps, or a little more. The bull went 50 yards and keeled over.

280 AI or if you reload, a 7mm-06.

Minimum legal in Colorado is 6mm diameter & 1,000 ft lbs at 100 yards. Congratulations you have the legal minimum covered. I wondered why we’ve found more unrecovered elk carcasses the last few years - I thought it was just more new hunters but mystery solved.

I know I’ve said this before but I always think of it when I hear about lost elk that people probably shot with too little a rifle.

My dad and his brothers and my grandad have been heading to the elk mountains equipped with 270s and 30/06s for decades. They’ve killed dozens of elk between them from 15 to over 500 yards. In all that time they’ve never wounded and lost one, many of them have been killed with one shot. The only “trick” they’ve used besides being able to shoot is the 150 Nosler Partition in the 270s.

Back in the eighties they invited my uncle from the other side of the family. He’d never hunted big game but was probably the best wild bird shooter around. He read some magazine articles before purchasing his first “elk rifle”. He settled on a KDF K15 in 300wby. He sighted it in and shot a little but not a bunch because it was loud and ammo was expensive. Every year he chased a wounded elk all over creation after blowing a leg or two off of it or putting a 180 through the guts. I think he actually recovered all of them but had some serious rodeos and long and nasty pack jobs.

There is no replacement for shot placement regardless of cartridge. And no cartridge magically drops them all without a CNS hit.

A couple years ago I killed two cows in less time than it takes to read this sentence with two shots from a 222mag. The neighbor and his wife across the fence killed two with 9 shots from a 300WSM. Guess who was shooting them in the right place and who wasn’t.

Those 150 partitions work great on elk and deer in the 270, sometimes exiting and sometimes found under the offside hide. I recently chronographed some of my reloads I had left over from the late '70's, using surplus H4831 powder. The load was still accurate and was going only 2753 fps! The deer and elk I shot never knew the difference in fps in my pre-chronograph pre-range finder days. My dad taught me if you could keep the crosshairs steady on the animals head, you were within range, then aim for a double lung shot. That was my rangefinder back in the day.

Using the same 45 yr old rifle, but now using RL26, the 150 partitions get 2920 fps out of the 22 in barrel with the same accuracy as the original load, around .75 moa out to 400 yds. Worn, scratches, and bluing gone in most places, but still putting in the work.

Manny

Sheister : What was your build for the 26N ?

Those caliber are all perfectly adequate, especially with modern well constructed bullets.

And more Especially when the rifle and recoil generated have been adequately mastered with sufficient practice.

So much better than packin an unfamiliar 338 / 250s that knocks you out from under your hat !

I’m sure the same can be said for a light weight 300 Mag w / 200s , and of course the other Manly Elk Cartridges. Ha

I’m actually being a little sarcastic about the wounded elk. I’ve been lucky to recover all I’ve shot but it took some tracking & persistence even when the dropped within a few yards & there was snow on the ground. When shooting cross canyon that oak brush doesn’t look 8’ tall & super thick until you get there.

Fewer of today’s hunters were taught trailing animals by their father’s & grandfathers as kids like the previous generation. One of our best family stories is of my great grandfather tracking down and capturing an escaped Nazi prisoner by himself when he was a small town sheriff in the 40’s. I’ll never be as good as previous generations but staying on it & not giving up was the most important thing I was taught.

One of my hunting partners is an excellent tracker & I have hope my son & grandsons might be better than me technically one of these days but stubbornness is a valuable tool. I hate the idea of anything I’ve shot going to waste.

I picked up an RR stainless action to go along with a Rock 5R stainless barrel I picked up in the classifieds on this site. I sent the works down to Shaen and had him check out the action and do what was necessary to clean it up. He reported back that once in his lathe it was very true and needed almost nothing so he went ahead and installed the barrel and chambered it to my dummy round. I'm a real old fool for wood stocks and although my inclement elk hunting rifles all wear synthetic stocks now like McMillans, I always wanted to install a wood stock on this one so I put an older fiddleback walnut stock on it that was on something else I wasn't using much. It has an epoxy sprayed on finish that is pretty tough and extremely waterproof relative to most wood stocks/finishes. I happened to have a Leupold 4.5 - 14 x 40 laying around so that got the call and it is a perfect combination. First trip to the range the factory Nosler ammo I picked up for the brass wouldn't group less than 1 1/2" or so. My handloads I had with me that day were a different story. They printed cloverleafs from the get go- somewhere in a nickel sized group with the 140 Grain Accubonds. The 142 Accubond Long Range were just not what this rifle liked.

These threads are always interesting as long as they aren't too testy. I would expect most guys to defend their choices, but it takes a little more of an open mind to listen to what is being said by guys who have killed many of whatever game is being discussed and consider their choices . There seems to be a few guys here who seem to have a hard time doing that and become pretty defensive. As I said before, there are no real wrong answers - just opinions. If it works for you it must be the right rifle, right?

Bob

'Sheister : Thanks, sounds like a very nice setup, without divulging too much. Ha
I totally agree about opinions, and favourite hunting terrain.

I used to be of the opinion that the 338 Win Mag was the optimum power point for elk. If they were heavy enough to mitigate the recoil, they were No Fun to carry up and over the next ridge.

Mo’ Bigga than a 300 mag or .30-‘06 w/ 180-200s , Must be Mo’ Betta !!
Then I heard people snivelling about recoil from their 300 mags … and that was endless …

Now, living in Wt deer / Moose / Black Bear country on the Southern edge of the boreal forest,
I don’t feel undergunned with a 280 Rem, or .308 Win.

In the Parklands South of me, I like what the 280 Improved gives, without needing a full on prone sniper rig.

There are lots of other choices, starting at 257 Roberts or maybe even 6mm CM that work probably just as well.

Practice, Practice, Practice. No substitute for Practice.

Cheers

Of course I knew what was appropriate - I read experienced knowledgeable gun writers & those guys were infallible. What calibers were you recommending in the mid 70’s?

Then I checked with experienced elk hunters I knew personally. In 1977 that was a 7mm RM. That was before affordable reliable rangefinders & reliable scopes dialing or reticle calibrated for drop. And before the internet & TV hunting shows. Now I know that the 300 Weatherby is a better tool from first hand experience. I expect when I am too old to tolerate the recoil & shoot accurately I’ll be forced to throttle back but I’m not there yet.

You don’t have enough experience to be as dogmatic as you are. You’re the only one that doesn’t know it.

I would view the .257 to be close to the 7mm Rem Mag. If I owned a flat shooting hot rod like the .257 weatherby (which I do) I would go bigger and get a dedicated elk rifle (I did that too). I would look at the .300 win mag in a rifle that feels right for you. I used to take a .300 win mag with a 7mm Rem Mag for back up. This year I took a Tikka T3 in .300 win mag and my back up was a Sako Fiberclass in .300 Win mag. They both shoot the same ammo I reload well. They are similar enough that they are both familiar. As I read others mention, because these are elk rifles and I hunt in mostly timber areas with clearings, I have 30 mm tube, decent glass in 3-9x40 power. I think they are both Leupold VX 3i? There are a lot of ways to hunt elk, just do what is fun for you.

Eloquently generous.

Gee, I did the same thing in the 1970s, checking with experienced Montana elk hunters back about the same time. The general opinion was (1) the .30-06 with 180-grain bullets of whatever make worked well , though some chose the 7mm RM.

One of those guys used a handload that supposedly got (according to the manual) around 3000 fps with a 160-grain bullet. But almost nobody had a chronoraph in those days--and when he bought one a few years later, it turned out his magic load got around 2700 fps. In the meantime he'd taken not only one or two elk each year with the load, but big black bears and plenty of deer. That velocity is just about like a warm ("modern pressure") 7x57 handload.

In the same era I was using a .30-06 with 200-grain Partitions at 2550 to hunt the thick timber near the Idaho Panhandle. Still haven't recovered one--though I did up the muzzle velocity to 2700 a few years later.

Eileen and I have killed elk with the .257 Roberts, .270 Winchester, 7x57 Mauser, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06, .300 WSM, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Weatherby Magnum. and maybe a couple others. I have also taken a couple with a bow, and neither went over 100 yards. Have also seen plenty of elk killed with other cartridges--and known plenty of outfitters with opinions different from yours. One of those used a 7mm Remington Magnum as his general rifle, including his back-up when guiding elk hunters. He eventually retired, and since then, when hunting on his own for "meat" cows, has killed a bunch with his .22-250--because the bullets don't exit cows in herds, unlike his 7mm RM.

One elk I killed with the .300 Weatherby was a 4x5 meat bull taken in Colorado at just about exactly 300 yards. He was below me in a canyon, with some wind drifting downhill during a snow-storm. The 200-grain Partition hit the heart--but the bottom half, probably due to the down-draft. Gee, he did NOT drop instantly, despite the belief that "magnums" make a difference when a shot's a little off. Instead he hobbled uphill for around 75 yards, and another shot put him down.

Have also seen similar results on "elk-sized" game that's also supposedly very tough in Africa, whether gemsbok, zebra, blue wildebeest, or whatever. Oh, and red deer in countries from the Czech Republic to New Zealand. Every time a bullet penetrated and expanded enough in both lungs, the animal died within 100 yards. This experience includes several hundred kills.

But whatever....

I am in the same boat. First Elk hunt ever and a true bucket list hunt while I am able. I am carrying my almost 50 year old Rem 700 .30-06 that I bought new with the hopes of Elk hunting some day.

I almost got spooked into thinking a magnum of some sort was needed. After talking to a lot of people and reading a lot of articles, I came to the conclusion that probably more elk have been killed with a .30-06 than any other cartridge. 168 TTSX at 2850 fps out of a rifle that shoots 3/4 " MOA that I shoot really well should do the trick, without a trick shot.

Six pages of discussion {argument} about bullets and cartridges. Meanwhile guys can take Elk, Moose, and Bear with longbow and homemade wood arrows. Moral? Get close and learn to shoot.

Years ago some guy proposed the following formula: 1B x 2L = DE. This means 1 bullet/broadhead through 2 lungs equals a dead elk. In my experience it tends to work.

I've probably related this before, but I've been shooting 2 cow elk a year for the last 3 years with a 6.5mm to keep the dinner freezer filled. 5 of them with the CM, 1 one with a PRC (it was a little ways out there), and all with the 143 gr. ELD-X.

I was in a small town, old-timey gunstore with an old timer behind the gun counter. He overheard a couple of us chatting about elk hunting and apparently decided he needed to tell that out-of-towner (me) what-for for using a too-light, unethical, and likely illegal cartridge on the precious elk. After asking him when was the last time he'd downed an elk, I simply told him he needed to get out more.

I still puzzle at times about people who get wedded to something and can't look beyond their nose.

Like, right now, I'm using the 9.3x62mm in the hunting rifle challenges 'cause I'm taking it on my next cape buffalo hunt. So far I've only run into 2 issues:

1. Nobody knows what the hell is a 9.3.x62mm, so I just call it the .366 Bock. They're fine with that and nod their head knowingly (?)
2. And then comes the: Cape Buffalo! You crazy? 'Aint that too-small, and probably illegal?

It just don't end ...

Not all western hunts are the same. Ask the outfitter what kind of shots they expect, then train for that and keep them posted on your progress. They genuinely appreciate a hunter who prepares to work with them and knows his limits because he's tested himself. Most clients show up unprepared and expect to kill stuff, then blame the guide when things go south at the moment of truth.

Almost any cartridge that's been mentioned on this thread will work if you're able to do your part.


Okie John

Like I said in an earlier post bull elk have a much different behavior after 1st week of rifle season. Depending on where you hunt a bull elk in first week of October it is nothing like hunting a bull elk in the last week of October. In Colorado you can go into mid November on rifle and bull elk are dug in like a wood tick.

From my experiences a 300 Wby may present some advantage the first week of rifle season, perhaps, but again in my experiences it would be a disadvantage in late season. Drudging through heavy timber through miles of deadfall with a heavy over scoped 26” barreled rifle is no pleasure and that’s where the herd bulls are holed up after the rut and hunting pressure.

I’ve killed a few elk in my day in Colorado south of Silt and Rifle (big cattle ranches in that area) near Baldy and Haystack Mountains but none were taken over 250 yards and the majority under 200 yards in heavy timber at 9,500 feet in late October and early November hunts. I’ve used 338 Win Mag (250 gr Hawk) early on, then switched to 444 Marlin (280 gr CorBon) and 308 Win (165 gr NPT). I won’t ever use a 338 Win Mag again, not because of recoil or that it doesn’t work, but rather it’s just not worth the unhandiness by weight and barrel length and the way and time of season I hunt. A low power fixed scope 20” barreled lever gun or 20” SA bolt gun in 7-08 Rem, 308 Win, 338 Federal or 358 Win is all you’ll ever need to kill a nice late season bull in heavy dark timber.

I’m not sure that many newcomers realize how an animal that size with antlers can maneuver in places that look like spider webs of timber whereby a hunter can’t hardly make it through, but the elk sure do and they can be hard to spot inside 100 yards. That’s when your nose will tell you they’re close by. I’ve spent days walking and stalking through that kind of terrain and timber and the rifle weight, length, handiness and rapid sighting with fixed low power scope is invaluable under those conditions. I remember one late season hunt in November when my hunting partner and I both downed elk the same day. Well everyone who hunts knows pulling the trigger is easy, butchering and backpacking two bulls out at 9,000 ft in less than two days is a heart attack waiting to happen. Luckily I survived.

Just curious why is the Tikka first string instead of the Sako? Weight, accuracy confidence?

I’ve put enough elk on the ground and played rodeo clown tracking wounded animals poorly shot to know only a few things -

Good shot placement is the starting gate.

Impact distance and bullet quality means something.

Shoot whatever you want, but know how to shoot your rifle well, and know what limitation it, or you may have.

🦫

Words of wisdom.

It’s already been said but the .257 WBY is great for MD and will do the job for Elk. I also like the feel of the Bergara rifles, like someone said it is similar to a nicer 700. I primarily hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag. I was in a similar boat when I thought my .30-06 didn’t shoot flat enough, I wanted faster and was torn between the 7RM and .300 WM. The 7mm doesn’t kill anything any quicker than my .30-06 did but does shoot flatter. If given the same choice today, I’d pick the .300 or save my money and use the .30-06.

Then, I was concerned about recoil and now having shot some animals and off the bench with a .300 Win, the recoil difference is negligible for me with a normal wood stock. Stock design does make a difference. I recently put an HS Precision stock with vertical grip on my 7mm, and the perceived recoil is much less although of course the real recoil is exactly the same.
Good luck on your hunt, there’s nothing like Elk hunting.