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I can’t decide on who the pecker-measurers are, the big mangleum fans or the tiny mousegunners? I’m betting on the small bore dudes with the little peckers trying to convince everyone else their junk is adequate. Man up, use enough gun! LOL
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Nosler Partitions still work these days? 😜  A 100gr Core-Lokt in .243 is devastating on elk and mule deer as far as I'm concerned. I've killed one of each with a .243 and neither one took a step. Personally I don't care to shoot a rifle with a muzzle brake, the only thing worse than the added noise is the residue - dust being blown around. Putting some trigger time in with whatever your going to hunt with is the key to success. Haha Yep! My Dad, to this day, still wonders why I reload - even though I fed his 300 Win with Horn 180’s for years when a guy can just buy 5 boxes of Corelokt 180’s and not know the difference he claimed. I told him it’s just that HE can’t see the difference (I lied to him 😜 nobody can see the difference - at least I never could)
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I guess I never tied a cartridge on either side to masculinity. If I had to chose, I’d go with overcompensating like a lifted truck to the magnum chest thumpers. Pretty sure an elk doesn’t care either way. I can’t decide on who the pecker-measurers are, the big mangleum fans or the tiny mousegunners? I’m betting on the small bore dudes with the little peckers trying to convince everyone else their junk is adequate. Man up, use enough gun! LOL
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Nosler Partitions still work these days? 😜 A 100gr Core-Lokt in .243 is devastating on elk and mule deer as far as I'm concerned. I've killed one of each with a .243 and neither one took a step. Personally I don't care to shoot a rifle with a muzzle brake, the only thing worse than the added noise is the residue - dust being blown around. Putting some trigger time in with whatever your going to hunt with is the key to success. Two whole critters, huh? That’a boy! LOL
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Campfire Kahuna
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Here's another one, This bull was shot at 345 yards, a little after sunset, with a 180-grain Nosler Partition factory load (Federal as I recall) from a 20" barreled .30-06--which probably resulted in a muzzle velocity around 2600 fps, or a little more. The bull went 50 yards and keeled over. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/185992.jpg)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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280 AI or if you reload, a 7mm-06.
Get close and wack em hard!
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Minimum legal in Colorado is 6mm diameter & 1,000 ft lbs at 100 yards. Congratulations you have the legal minimum covered. I wondered why we’ve found more unrecovered elk carcasses the last few years - I thought it was just more new hunters but mystery solved.
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I know I’ve said this before but I always think of it when I hear about lost elk that people probably shot with too little a rifle.
My dad and his brothers and my grandad have been heading to the elk mountains equipped with 270s and 30/06s for decades. They’ve killed dozens of elk between them from 15 to over 500 yards. In all that time they’ve never wounded and lost one, many of them have been killed with one shot. The only “trick” they’ve used besides being able to shoot is the 150 Nosler Partition in the 270s.
Back in the eighties they invited my uncle from the other side of the family. He’d never hunted big game but was probably the best wild bird shooter around. He read some magazine articles before purchasing his first “elk rifle”. He settled on a KDF K15 in 300wby. He sighted it in and shot a little but not a bunch because it was loud and ammo was expensive. Every year he chased a wounded elk all over creation after blowing a leg or two off of it or putting a 180 through the guts. I think he actually recovered all of them but had some serious rodeos and long and nasty pack jobs.
There is no replacement for shot placement regardless of cartridge. And no cartridge magically drops them all without a CNS hit.
A couple years ago I killed two cows in less time than it takes to read this sentence with two shots from a 222mag. The neighbor and his wife across the fence killed two with 9 shots from a 300WSM. Guess who was shooting them in the right place and who wasn’t.
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The only “trick” they’ve used besides being able to shoot is the 150 Nosler Partition in the 270s.
. Those 150 partitions work great on elk and deer in the 270, sometimes exiting and sometimes found under the offside hide. I recently chronographed some of my reloads I had left over from the late '70's, using surplus H4831 powder. The load was still accurate and was going only 2753 fps! The deer and elk I shot never knew the difference in fps in my pre-chronograph pre-range finder days. My dad taught me if you could keep the crosshairs steady on the animals head, you were within range, then aim for a double lung shot. That was my rangefinder back in the day. Using the same 45 yr old rifle, but now using RL26, the 150 partitions get 2920 fps out of the 22 in barrel with the same accuracy as the original load, around .75 moa out to 400 yds. Worn, scratches, and bluing gone in most places, but still putting in the work. Manny
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It doesn't take long reading this thread to see who has or hasn't killed more than a few elk in their career. There are a lot of elk hunters, but only a few guys who actually kill elk on a really regular basis. I count myself somewhere in the middle but after watching enough people who I shoot with and talk to about elk and deer hunting on a pretty regular basis I know a few things. The guys who shoot a lot for some reason seem to be the guys who take elk and other game on a regular basis and the guys who are familiar with their rifles are especially efficient at taking care of business. The one thing that they have in common is they don't shoot high recoiling rifles all the time for practice. At the range, heavy recoil is detrimental to getting familiar with your rifle. If after a few shots you don't really want to shoot any more with that rifle, it pretty much ensures you won't be sure of your shot in the field.
I'm pretty much not recoil shy but I have my limits- which I found were in the 375 H&H area for range work... and for years I kept plugging along at the range with my 338 WM, 300 H&H AI, 300 WM, etc... knowing someday I would need to shoot across canyons or winter wheat fields to collect my elk. In 48 years of hunting elk that has happened 3 times in total. To be honest I convinced myself that I couldn't have made those shots with any lesser cartridges and still wonder to this day if the ballistics of a lesser cartridge would have reaped the benefits of those magnum rounds at 600 yards or there about... after watching several of my buddies and my brother drop down to lighter cartridges in the 30-06/270 class, I started to question my choices. No doubt the magnums have been very effective, but they didn't really give me any end result a smaller cartridge wouldn't have knowing my ballistics as I did the magnums.
I have to laugh now after reading this thread that my answer to my question was to build a new rifle in 26 Nosler and shoot the 140 Grain Accubonds as a do-it-all rifle. In the couple years I have hunted with it I've had opportunity to shoot one spike elk and it dropped in its tracks. It may take a few years to find out how effective my new "smaller" rifle is, but I still wouldn't have a problem going up or down in cartridge horsepower to hunt deer, elk, bears, or just about anything any more... I have hunted elk a couple times with my 270 with no opportunities and deer with a 25-06, 30-06, 270, and a 300 mag, all with about equal results on game.
It is evident there is no right or wrong to this argument and it will go on long after we are gone. But I am convinced a lot of "smaller" cartridges are quite capable of taking any game in North America in capable hands. And are easier for recoil sensitive shooters to master in a shorter time. So, the question is- if you can recommend a 270/25-06/243/6.5 CM/7-08 etc.. for a child or woman to shoot elk/deer/bears with, why isn't it sufficient for a man to hunt with? Sheister : What was your build for the 26N ? Those caliber are all perfectly adequate, especially with modern well constructed bullets. And more Especially when the rifle and recoil generated have been adequately mastered with sufficient practice. So much better than packin an unfamiliar 338 / 250s that knocks you out from under your hat ! I’m sure the same can be said for a light weight 300 Mag w / 200s , and of course the other Manly Elk Cartridges. Ha
Last edited by 338Rules; 03/04/22. Reason: Memory Lapse due to excessive Recoil
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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I’m actually being a little sarcastic about the wounded elk. I’ve been lucky to recover all I’ve shot but it took some tracking & persistence even when the dropped within a few yards & there was snow on the ground. When shooting cross canyon that oak brush doesn’t look 8’ tall & super thick until you get there.
Fewer of today’s hunters were taught trailing animals by their father’s & grandfathers as kids like the previous generation. One of our best family stories is of my great grandfather tracking down and capturing an escaped Nazi prisoner by himself when he was a small town sheriff in the 40’s. I’ll never be as good as previous generations but staying on it & not giving up was the most important thing I was taught.
One of my hunting partners is an excellent tracker & I have hope my son & grandsons might be better than me technically one of these days but stubbornness is a valuable tool. I hate the idea of anything I’ve shot going to waste.
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It doesn't take long reading this thread to see who has or hasn't killed more than a few elk in their career. There are a lot of elk hunters, but only a few guys who actually kill elk on a really regular basis. I count myself somewhere in the middle but after watching enough people who I shoot with and talk to about elk and deer hunting on a pretty regular basis I know a few things. The guys who shoot a lot for some reason seem to be the guys who take elk and other game on a regular basis and the guys who are familiar with their rifles are especially efficient at taking care of business. The one thing that they have in common is they don't shoot high recoiling rifles all the time for practice. At the range, heavy recoil is detrimental to getting familiar with your rifle. If after a few shots you don't really want to shoot any more with that rifle, it pretty much ensures you won't be sure of your shot in the field.
I'm pretty much not recoil shy but I have my limits- which I found were in the 375 H&H area for range work... and for years I kept plugging along at the range with my 338 WM, 300 H&H AI, 300 WM, etc... knowing someday I would need to shoot across canyons or winter wheat fields to collect my elk. In 48 years of hunting elk that has happened 3 times in total. To be honest I convinced myself that I couldn't have made those shots with any lesser cartridges and still wonder to this day if the ballistics of a lesser cartridge would have reaped the benefits of those magnum rounds at 600 yards or there about... after watching several of my buddies and my brother drop down to lighter cartridges in the 30-06/270 class, I started to question my choices. No doubt the magnums have been very effective, but they didn't really give me any end result a smaller cartridge wouldn't have knowing my ballistics as I did the magnums.
I have to laugh now after reading this thread that my answer to my question was to build a new rifle in 26 Nosler and shoot the 140 Grain Accubonds as a do-it-all rifle. In the couple years I have hunted with it I've had opportunity to shoot one spike elk and it dropped in its tracks. It may take a few years to find out how effective my new "smaller" rifle is, but I still wouldn't have a problem going up or down in cartridge horsepower to hunt deer, elk, bears, or just about anything any more... I have hunted elk a couple times with my 270 with no opportunities and deer with a 25-06, 30-06, 270, and a 300 mag, all with about equal results on game.
It is evident there is no right or wrong to this argument and it will go on long after we are gone. But I am convinced a lot of "smaller" cartridges are quite capable of taking any game in North America in capable hands. And are easier for recoil sensitive shooters to master in a shorter time. So, the question is- if you can recommend a 270/25-06/243/6.5 CM/7-08 etc.. for a child or woman to shoot elk/deer/bears with, why isn't it sufficient for a man to hunt with? Sheister : What was your build for the 26N ? Those caliber are all perfectly adequate, especially with modern well constructed bullets. And more Especially when the rifle and recoil generated have been adequately mastered with sufficient practice. So much better than packin an unfamiliar 338 / 250s that knocks you out from under your hat ! I’m sure the same can be said for a light weight 300 Mag w / 200s , and of course the other Manly Elk Cartridges. Ha I picked up an RR stainless action to go along with a Rock 5R stainless barrel I picked up in the classifieds on this site. I sent the works down to Shaen and had him check out the action and do what was necessary to clean it up. He reported back that once in his lathe it was very true and needed almost nothing so he went ahead and installed the barrel and chambered it to my dummy round. I'm a real old fool for wood stocks and although my inclement elk hunting rifles all wear synthetic stocks now like McMillans, I always wanted to install a wood stock on this one so I put an older fiddleback walnut stock on it that was on something else I wasn't using much. It has an epoxy sprayed on finish that is pretty tough and extremely waterproof relative to most wood stocks/finishes. I happened to have a Leupold 4.5 - 14 x 40 laying around so that got the call and it is a perfect combination. First trip to the range the factory Nosler ammo I picked up for the brass wouldn't group less than 1 1/2" or so. My handloads I had with me that day were a different story. They printed cloverleafs from the get go- somewhere in a nickel sized group with the 140 Grain Accubonds. The 142 Accubond Long Range were just not what this rifle liked. These threads are always interesting as long as they aren't too testy. I would expect most guys to defend their choices, but it takes a little more of an open mind to listen to what is being said by guys who have killed many of whatever game is being discussed and consider their choices . There seems to be a few guys here who seem to have a hard time doing that and become pretty defensive. As I said before, there are no real wrong answers - just opinions. If it works for you it must be the right rifle, right? Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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'Sheister : Thanks, sounds like a very nice setup, without divulging too much. Ha
I totally agree about opinions, and favourite hunting terrain.
I used to be of the opinion that the 338 Win Mag was the optimum power point for elk. If they were heavy enough to mitigate the recoil, they were No Fun to carry up and over the next ridge.
Mo’ Bigga than a 300 mag or .30-‘06 w/ 180-200s , Must be Mo’ Betta !!
Then I heard people snivelling about recoil from their 300 mags … and that was endless …
Now, living in Wt deer / Moose / Black Bear country on the Southern edge of the boreal forest,
I don’t feel undergunned with a 280 Rem, or .308 Win.
In the Parklands South of me, I like what the 280 Improved gives, without needing a full on prone sniper rig.
There are lots of other choices, starting at 257 Roberts or maybe even 6mm CM that work probably just as well.
Practice, Practice, Practice. No substitute for Practice.
Cheers
Last edited by 338Rules; 03/04/22.
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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specneeds,
Am not surprised that you admit to never seen an elk killed with a cartridge smaller than the .30-06, apparently because you knew everything about "appropriate" cartridges before you ever hunted elk. Of course I knew what was appropriate - I read experienced knowledgeable gun writers & those guys were infallible. What calibers were you recommending in the mid 70’s? Then I checked with experienced elk hunters I knew personally. In 1977 that was a 7mm RM. That was before affordable reliable rangefinders & reliable scopes dialing or reticle calibrated for drop. And before the internet & TV hunting shows. Now I know that the 300 Weatherby is a better tool from first hand experience. I expect when I am too old to tolerate the recoil & shoot accurately I’ll be forced to throttle back but I’m not there yet.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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specneeds,
Am not surprised that you admit to never seen an elk killed with a cartridge smaller than the .30-06, apparently because you knew everything about "appropriate" cartridges before you ever hunted elk. Of course I knew what was appropriate - I read experienced knowledgeable gun writers & those guys were infallible. What calibers were you recommending in the mid 70’s? Then I checked with experienced elk hunters I knew personally. In 1977 that was a 7mm RM. That was before affordable reliable rangefinders & reliable scopes dialing or reticle calibrated for drop. And before the internet & TV hunting shows. Now I know that the 300 Weatherby is a better tool from first hand experience. I expect when I am too old to tolerate the recoil & shoot accurately I’ll be forced to throttle back but I’m not there yet. You don’t have enough experience to be as dogmatic as you are. You’re the only one that doesn’t know it.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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I would view the .257 to be close to the 7mm Rem Mag. If I owned a flat shooting hot rod like the .257 weatherby (which I do) I would go bigger and get a dedicated elk rifle (I did that too). I would look at the .300 win mag in a rifle that feels right for you. I used to take a .300 win mag with a 7mm Rem Mag for back up. This year I took a Tikka T3 in .300 win mag and my back up was a Sako Fiberclass in .300 Win mag. They both shoot the same ammo I reload well. They are similar enough that they are both familiar. As I read others mention, because these are elk rifles and I hunt in mostly timber areas with clearings, I have 30 mm tube, decent glass in 3-9x40 power. I think they are both Leupold VX 3i? There are a lot of ways to hunt elk, just do what is fun for you.
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specneeds,
Am not surprised that you admit to never seen an elk killed with a cartridge smaller than the .30-06, apparently because you knew everything about "appropriate" cartridges before you ever hunted elk. Of course I knew what was appropriate - I read experienced knowledgeable gun writers & those guys were infallible. What calibers were you recommending in the mid 70’s? Then I checked with experienced elk hunters I knew personally. In 1977 that was a 7mm RM. That was before affordable reliable rangefinders & reliable scopes dialing or reticle calibrated for drop. And before the internet & TV hunting shows. Now I know that the 300 Weatherby is a better tool from first hand experience. I expect when I am too old to tolerate the recoil & shoot accurately I’ll be forced to throttle back but I’m not there yet. You don’t have enough experience to be as dogmatic as you are. You’re the only one that doesn’t know it. Eloquently generous.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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specneeds,
Am not surprised that you admit to never seen an elk killed with a cartridge smaller than the .30-06, apparently because you knew everything about "appropriate" cartridges before you ever hunted elk. Of course I knew what was appropriate - I read experienced knowledgeable gun writers & those guys were infallible. What calibers were you recommending in the mid 70’s? Then I checked with experienced elk hunters I knew personally. In 1977 that was a 7mm RM. That was before affordable reliable rangefinders & reliable scopes dialing or reticle calibrated for drop. And before the internet & TV hunting shows. Now I know that the 300 Weatherby is a better tool from first hand experience. I expect when I am too old to tolerate the recoil & shoot accurately I’ll be forced to throttle back but I’m not there yet. Gee, I did the same thing in the 1970s, checking with experienced Montana elk hunters back about the same time. The general opinion was (1) the .30-06 with 180-grain bullets of whatever make worked well , though some chose the 7mm RM. One of those guys used a handload that supposedly got (according to the manual) around 3000 fps with a 160-grain bullet. But almost nobody had a chronoraph in those days--and when he bought one a few years later, it turned out his magic load got around 2700 fps. In the meantime he'd taken not only one or two elk each year with the load, but big black bears and plenty of deer. That velocity is just about like a warm ("modern pressure") 7x57 handload. In the same era I was using a .30-06 with 200-grain Partitions at 2550 to hunt the thick timber near the Idaho Panhandle. Still haven't recovered one--though I did up the muzzle velocity to 2700 a few years later. Eileen and I have killed elk with the .257 Roberts, .270 Winchester, 7x57 Mauser, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06, .300 WSM, .300 Winchester Magnum, .300 Weatherby Magnum. and maybe a couple others. I have also taken a couple with a bow, and neither went over 100 yards. Have also seen plenty of elk killed with other cartridges--and known plenty of outfitters with opinions different from yours. One of those used a 7mm Remington Magnum as his general rifle, including his back-up when guiding elk hunters. He eventually retired, and since then, when hunting on his own for "meat" cows, has killed a bunch with his .22-250--because the bullets don't exit cows in herds, unlike his 7mm RM. One elk I killed with the .300 Weatherby was a 4x5 meat bull taken in Colorado at just about exactly 300 yards. He was below me in a canyon, with some wind drifting downhill during a snow-storm. The 200-grain Partition hit the heart--but the bottom half, probably due to the down-draft. Gee, he did NOT drop instantly, despite the belief that "magnums" make a difference when a shot's a little off. Instead he hobbled uphill for around 75 yards, and another shot put him down. Have also seen similar results on "elk-sized" game that's also supposedly very tough in Africa, whether gemsbok, zebra, blue wildebeest, or whatever. Oh, and red deer in countries from the Czech Republic to New Zealand. Every time a bullet penetrated and expanded enough in both lungs, the animal died within 100 yards. This experience includes several hundred kills. But whatever....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Just booked my 1st western big game hunt. I have 1 center fire rifle - vanguard 257 wby mag. Thinking I might need to step it up a little for elk sized game.
Very interested in the Bergara Wilderness Ridge in 7mm rem mag or 300 win mag. Seems like a total package for $850.
Should I go with it or buy another vanguard since that is what I’m used to?
I know my 257 would work, but I’d rather have a heavier bullet for elk.
Just wanting to know if the Bergara is a quality rifle and if 7mm or 300 is the way to go. I am in the same boat. First Elk hunt ever and a true bucket list hunt while I am able. I am carrying my almost 50 year old Rem 700 .30-06 that I bought new with the hopes of Elk hunting some day. I almost got spooked into thinking a magnum of some sort was needed. After talking to a lot of people and reading a lot of articles, I came to the conclusion that probably more elk have been killed with a .30-06 than any other cartridge. 168 TTSX at 2850 fps out of a rifle that shoots 3/4 " MOA that I shoot really well should do the trick, without a trick shot.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Six pages of discussion {argument} about bullets and cartridges. Meanwhile guys can take Elk, Moose, and Bear with longbow and homemade wood arrows. Moral? Get close and learn to shoot.
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