I just got a look at the 2023 Colorado brochure and saw that the price of a Cow elk tag has jumped from a little over $500 last year to $760.99 this year. The brochure says that for the $760.99 for can draw for a Cow tag and either sex tag and purchase a bull tag (in OTC areas) all for the same price.

Has anyone else seen this and is this a misprint?

Thanks for your input.

I saw that in the CPW Commission meeting minutes a couple months ago. All about the money.

I’ve been trying to figure out how they can charge out of state fees on federal land. Edk

Inflation hits every sector

Idaho's non-res license is $185 and an elk tag is $650. The problem isn't so much the cost as the availability. There are some OTC tags but they're all put on sale in Dec and they sell out the same day. Lottery tags are drawn in June and it's a lottery with very low success odds. There is no point system so each year it's a free for all.

This has been beat to death. Wildlife is held in trust for the residents of that state.

Want a private land owner to own the animals on his deeded ground?

NM has legislation this session that is sure to pass raising fees across the board.

Yup, I wonder how much an elk, deer, oryx, and especially bighorn sheep tags are going to be.

How’s elks?

Proposed increases. In typical NM fashion, they want to discount lic. fees to welfare recipients.

https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/23%20Regular/bills/senate/SB0254.pdf

Eta; NM has not had any increases since 2006 so it’s needed IMO.

Was looking at it this morning. Guess I'll put in for Mule Deer, which ain't cheap either.

There has to be a tipping point where non-resident applications will decrease, and these inflated prices will bring in less revenue, but I don't know.

Will be putting in for Mule Deer and mainly trying to get my resident buddy an Elk.

We have a good time and that's what counts but eventually this will be beyond my means.

Because it is written into law at the federal level.

He'd bitch if a landowner got to set the price of a license at whatever they wanted too, even though he apparently thinks whoever owns/manages the land should set the license price.

The weirder one is how Minnesota sells weapons tags.

U can only hunt within one season per tag, but only one buck per year.

Ouch.

Yeah, NM fee's do need to be increased and by the looks of the proposed increase in fee's it is not too bad.

As far as the welfare recipients getting a discount, not surprised at all. I think Senior citizens and Veterans deserve the same discount and maybe a bit more.

A couple months ago, Idaho put 30k deer and elk non-resident OTC tags on sale online. They had 64k people online at the same time to buy them, far more than anytime in the past, and it crashed the system. The demand is there and it's nowhere near any tipping point.

A sign that Idaho needs to jack up NR fees. I would happily pay more as a resident to make up the difference in revenue in exchange for less pressure from NR

I'm all for it. Charge them $1000. Every year it seems the crowd in camp is more and more from out of state. I'd say it's about 50/50 the last few years. I pay $1000 for a truck license plate in CO - a year. Our taxes in CO, especially for small business, are extremely high. If want a cheap elk tag, by all means, move here, and buy a 3 bed/3 bath house for $1.2 million in the burbs that needs a remodel, pay the $1000 license plate fee on your truck, then pay all the other taxes. At that point, you've earned the "cheap" resident elk tag. Until then, look at your cost of living in midwest and be grateful all your other life expenses are reasonable.

Yes. Nonresident hunting has pretty much become a rich man's endeavor.

It seems that the cost of hunting is on the same upward spiral evident in everything we now purchase. Chances are we will soon face a hunting environment that the Europeans have experienced for hundreds of years. This has been said before but we need to focus on the wildlife available in our home states and stop the auction mentality that the F&G departments love to create and benefit from. The main driver and goal of our F&G department's is to grow the departments and true management of wildlife is the excuse they use for that. The only way to control that trend is to restrict the money flow!. Five day hunts (Sound familiar Colorado?) are absurd, I've been suck in a tent longer than that, unable to hunt because of severe weather. They are using the same techniques as wall street, create hype, and restrict availability so the price will rise to their benefit. It's a hard decision to make, staying in a person's home state, because we all want to hunt as much as we can but it's the only way to control those money hungry "Game Managers" running F&G departments. Telling everyone that 64,000 hunters flooded the web site in Idaho, true or not, just feeds into that mentality. Stay home and enjoy the wildlife resources available at reasonable cost!.
That said,
Good hunting
Lj

Like it or not, supply and demand have to meet up. Its how society rations scarce goods.

For every NR that does not want to pay $761 there are ten more in back of him that will pay $1000. Colorado is the only state that has unlimited OTC elk tags

CPW is not going to give up that cash cow.

Their 2022 herd counts show more elk than2021, but you see less.They will keep inflating those numbers so NR's will think there is an elk behind every tree so they will keep buying those tags.

Almost all NM rifle hunts are 5 days and less. A lot I disagree with here if I’m reading it right. Game departments absolutely could do some things better, but they’ve got a tough job pleasing everyone. They have to balance the opportunity people along with the quality people. Some want to find an easy deer and could care less if it’s a small fork and aren’t to bothered by other hunters. Others want a legit chance at a good mature animal and would rather hunt every couple years and not deal with a bunch of pressure. Throw in private wildlife conflict and things get worse.

Want to be angry at someone over increased demand, look at influencers, companies and social media. What do you think is going to happen when you have personalities making shows telling people of great OTC opportunities and explaining how easy it is? A well known podcast was going over draw strategies and mentioned multiple times a unit I was able to draw pretty regularly in the conversation and I haven’t drawn it in 3 years now. NR’s aren’t the only ones listening.

I’m afraid we’re loving Western hunting to death.

Anymore I have just applied in WY for the last few years. I’ve seen more elk there than other states. Granted I have not hunted elk in Montana. Getting a tag in NM is unlikely to say the least and I quit trying. I used to hunt just West of Rocky Mountain National Park in CO but my hunting buddies there are no longer. I evidently lucked out and drew a tag in Idaho the first time I tried in 1978.
Paying $700-$800 bucks for a license isn’t bad if you have a good chance at seeing elk.
I’ve applied all my life in SD and so far drew one tag.

Sure what has been put to rest is I despise being gouged and I despise those who are good with it. There should be a break on the federal land, does the state manage the federal land for wildlife? Does the state manage wildlife on private property? On what basis do you think the state making tags more expensive for NR hunters on either type of property being OK?

I have around 940.00 in my Idaho archery elk tag, Including the hunting license, archery permit and a few other things that let me hunt on National Forrest. I remember when I could do it for 400.00 and buy my tag when I arrived in Idaho. Times have changed no doubt. and I will continue to do everything I can to hunt elk in Idaho. I only have so many Septembers left.

Only issue I have with non resident applications is that if
you Don’t draw you’re stuck with a license. Each state NR license is goos $150+
So when I apply in 3 states and don’t draw, I’m stuck with them licenses for nothing. and close to 500$ down the drain. you do get the elk tag reimbursed in some states where you pay upfront but still. 3 Hunting licenses to nothing can be costly..
This probably keeps thousands of people away from applying, still sucks.

Because the game animals belong to the state. Been that way for years. SCOTUS has even ruled on it.

Because SCOTUS has ruled that’s the way it is.

I can only speak to NM, but yes, the state pays its way on management on federal lands. Every NM hunter hunting federal lands is required to purchase a habitat stamp. The money generated is leveraged and helps pay for drinkers, prescribed burns, mechanical treatments etc. Our state biologists work closely with federal biologists on management of wildlife as well as habitat.

In NM, a LO can sale unlimited OTC deer tags, unlimited antelope and unlimited elk authorizations in parts of the state. LO’s in other parts receive transferable elk authorizations. It’s up to the LO to decide how they are going to manage. In the primary elk zones the state decides how many elk authorizations each LO receives based on unit wide objectives.

The Pittman-Robertson Act is at least part of the reason many states require a non-refundable license to apply for draws. The more licenses they sell, the more funds they get from the act.

I'll bet I throw away well over $1000 a year just buying licenses for various states to apply for their draw. Sometimes I try to make as much use of it as I can....go bird hunt some random species I don't have at home, etc.

That’s the plan for me for Arizona this year. 99% I won’t draw

I travel out west to elk hunt every year, and have been doing it for almost 30 years. Everything related to my elk hunting has increased, which doesn't surprise me. My elk hunt is something I look forward to each year, so I'm not hindered by rising prices. I've been using outfitters who have the tags, so I haven't been doing a draw for probably 20 years. While it's not a stretch for me to handle hunting cost increases, I feel badly for the working man who has to negotiate the complicated draw processes and pay high fees. Hunting elk in the west is truly becoming a rich man's game.

Yes the state does manage the wildlife on federal lands, yes they also manage private lands out West.
The state conducts population surveys, they fly herd counts to set quotas. They allow LO to have licenses if they have animals on their property.
The wildlife is not owned by private landowners, it is managed by the state for it's residents.

Don't like the NR prices, move here and be a resident to reap the benefits, pretty simple the way that works.

Not Wyoming, we have a license fee but no qualifying license requirement to apply.

So I don’t have to buy a hunting license to apply for a tag?

If you want to bitch about fees, a seat at the Superbowl cost a minimum of $5,000.00. Where is the justice in that? It is no longer about football or hunting, it’s about money.

Hunting has been a generational tradition for thousands of years. Football is a more recent diversion that is as intoxicating as any drug and people are caught up in the successful marketing of sports.

Money has distorted the value system and taken over while the participants have stood by and watched.
Ever since the first European set foot on this continent, it has been about competition and beating the other guy.

Gone are the days of a father taking his son and a box of 30-30 cartridges, buying a couple deer tags and a tank of gas for $20.00 and going hunting. A ticket to a baseball game and a hot dog at less than $10.00 will only be seen in history books.

Welcome to the 21st century and the age of inflation and opulence where nothing is sacred any more. The best days were 50’s through the 60’s and we will never experience those golden years again. Like it or not it isn’t about fairness, it is all about money…

Agreed!

Regards,
Manny

In another chat group on the internet I am on there was a discussion about losing the zeal for hunting.

A lot of the people stated they have taken up fishing instead.

Name a state that doesn't charge higher fees for non-resident big game licenses.

And tell us what kind of discount your state gives for non-residents who hunt federal land.

Isn’t a conservation stamp required before applying for draws in WY? It is as close as they have to a hunting ‘license’.

I have a lifetime conservation stamp there so I have never really paid attention to if it is a prerequisite to apply for draws or not…as I haven’t needed to buy one in several years.

I've hunted Idaho every year since 1982. The changes Ive seen in SE, SW, and Central Idaho hunting country is amazing. Areas where Ive killed 30" bucks now have camp trailers parked weeks ahead of the season to reserve camping spots. The growth in population has also increased people who want to hunt. Garbage strewn along the roads and in campsites make me sick. This type of activity is from both locals and out of staters. The lack of respect for Mother Nature and hunting ethics makes no sense to me. I realize I sound like the "keep off my grass" old man, but really, these changes just break my heart.

Ive got 20 or 21 points for mule deer in Nevada, and have had to buy a license each year to apply. I had 18 points in Utah when I finally got drawn for a muzzleloader mule deer tag. Out of state hunting for a premium tag is extremely time consuming and costly, before you even get drawn!

I've worked hard to stay in shape to still get in the country I need to get to for mule deer. I'm fortunate to live in elk country, and have good numbers of them on my property and adjoining National Forest.

Bottom line, more people hunting the same land and the same animals is a supply and demand issue. Idaho just raised their out of state fees, but as can be seen, they still immediately sell out.

That said, some of the best times of my life were spent living in a canvas tent, around a campfire and a whisky, hunting the mountains of Idaho. Hard to put a cost value on those memories.

Regards,
Manny

Maybe 10 years ago I was looking on Craigslist for some llama pack saddles. A guy in Reno had some for sale. He was an avid hunter and had pack llamas and all the gear but he hadn't drawn a NV tag of any kind for more than 10 years. He finally gave up. He sold the llamas, sold me the saddles, and started going out of state with outfitters. He said it was the only way he could get a tag.

Hunting isn't cheap, I'm just glad that I have enough money to feed my addiction till I die.

^^ THIS ^^

If elk tags were to be auctioned off, I don't doubt that I'd soon be priced out of hunting.
A couple years ago we almost had a grizzly hunt in Idaho with 1 tag up for grabs. A liberal judge stopped the hunt on a day or 2 before it opened.
The tag was drawn in a lottery. The tag was priced the same as moose, bighorn, or mtn goats, about $200 for a resident, $2600 for non-resident. This tag could have been auctioned off and brought many times that. I can see rich people paying $20k or more for a grizzly tag. They'll pay that much for a high fence farm elk, why not for a grizzly? As it was, the IDFG thought it only fair to price it so an average hunter could afford it.

Honestly, I could get a tag with my points, if I chose a lesser area and just wanted "a tag." But at this point, I'd rather not go than waste all the time, money, and points on a mediocre tag. So, I continue to apply for the best areas, which also have less tags available and less chance of getting drawn, but the best chance to get a real good buck. As much as I love eating elk, hunting big mule deer is still my favorite!

Regards,
Manny

Manny, I'd be careful about giving the ID. F&G department any additional ideas about how to raise additional revenue ie: raising resident license fees in exchange for raising NR fees. They will do both!!. As an Id. state resident as you are I'm sure you can remember the F&G push for selling a bonus point program a few years ago. Nothing less than a gimmick for raising MORE MONEY for new pickups and building new H.Q. opulent structures for themselves. We have got to vote down every attempt they make to raise more money. That's the only way to control them. Not one lawsuit was filed by the ID. F&G department to object to the Fed,s program on wolf reintroduction that has resulted in our predator pit situation in many parts of the state. Oh, I forget that we now have another GAME animal to manage, Wolves, hire additional biologists, more pickups, helicopter time to count them!!. They knew exactly what the were doing by not fighting the Feds, creating another revenue stream. The last two Directors have been nothing more than Politicians in biologist boots and jeans and I'm sure this new one from the most liberal town in Idaho, Moscow, (next to Ketchum, Maybe ) will turn out to be the same. Lets not give them any more ideas about how to raise more money, they don't need the help!
Good Hunting
Littlejohn

So I am not saying higher fees are unusual or totally wrong I am saying states that gouge NR hunters are wrong, there is no reason to charge a NR hunter 20 times what a resident has to pay. 4 times I can see. The real issue is that what happens to that money, it does not go to wildlife management. Wyoming might be the exception but I saw VERY LITTLE actual wildlife management other than the Wolf and Grizzly programs. Neither of which benefited hunters in any way.

I won’t argue many of Idaho’s F&G downsides, but tag and license prices are set by state legislators, not the game department.

They may or may not take input from the game department when voting on those price changes, but that is a different discussion.

Sometimes the legislature goes around the F&G commission. For years, they banned lighted nocks and expanding heads for archery hunting. Last year someone got the legislature to vote to allow them in spite of the commission's objections. They're now legal in Idaho.

Here the liberal democrats that control the legislature are in lock step with Polis the Liberal governor and Pols appoints all the wildlife commissioners .

No, there is an application fee added, $15, that is not refunded if not drawn.

The conservation stamp is not required for the application but is required for the hunt.

What do you guys think elk license prices should be?

For Non res? $500 for elk, $100 for hunting license if only applying for one animal. $150 for all species.
I’d like to get Tule elk someday, but that is not worth it to me. As Cali non res hunting license is $ 188 and tag is almost $1600 for elk tag. Probably take 20+ points .
To put that into perspective, most states are half price of that.

yep

be curious what the economy does to NR tag demand in 23

👍

Twenty plus years ago Colorado had 20K-40K more elk than the habitat/herd objective could support. To encourage more hunters to apply for cow licenses the CPW reduced cow tags for NR (the same way they have reduced NR bear tags in recent years). Now that elk populations are at herd objective, or even slightly below, there are a lot less licenses available. Plus, as PP creep has continued a lot of hunters are applying for cow tags rather than wait to garner enough PP's for a limited license bull tag.

The demand is now there for cow tags, so they set cow tag prices back to the same price as bull tags, the way it was up until the early 2000's sometime.

Me too.

Congress and the Fed courts have said so. When I apply for other states I cry too.......

Its not primarily the NR's, it's the 3 million Lifestyle Immigrants that have moved to Colorado in the last 20 years to live the "lifestyle"--for many that includes hunting. The biggest increase in hunting applications have come from residents.

Colorado has also updated the R/NR allocations for all deer/elk/pronghorn hunt codes that require 6 PP's or more to draw to a 80/20 split. It added ~1200 hunt codes to the 80/20 allocation.

It also added the hybrid draw to a bunch of hunt codes requiring 10 or more PP's. That gives an applicant a chance to draw even if they don't have the required number of PP's, but the applicant must have at least 6 PP's for that species to be eligible.

Yes, state wildlife agencies do habitat work on federal land all the time. Wildlife is public property, and states have been delegated the authority to manage wildlife regardless of private vs public. Congress and the courts have recognized wildlife don't recognize political boundaries.

Importantly, there's not a species, herd, or individual game animal that spends all its time on private or all it's time on public property in the western 2/3's of Colorado--they spend time on both. I have deer, sometimes elk, and occasionally desert bighorns grazing in my pasture in the evenings, and during the day move back onto BLM across the road.

Yes. See above.

As a resident in rural Colorado I give more and sacrifice more for Colorado wildlife than you generally will regardless how much you pay for a license.

Nonresidents come here to hunt and they see deer and elk during a small snapshot in time. They don't see them in the winter, spring, summer. or the majority of the fall. Significant numbers of deer and elk, and to a lesser extent pronghorns, spend the majority of time on private land in the winter and public land in the summer.

Probably not much longer. I was on one of the PP "focus groups" this summer. The groups were asked to boil down all the issues we discussed and come up with three priorities. I believe every PP focus group (and at least some of the allocation focus groups) made limited licenses for all elk hunting in Colorado one of the priorities.

I don't disagree with some of your post, but are you aware that right now Utah has implemented an emergency feeding program for deer and elk, and Wyoming for elk? It ain't cheap. Research is important--especially so when anti hunters attempt to use pseudo-science to advance their cause. The latest in Colorado is that wolves reduce the prevalence of CWD. That claim is being countered by the fact at this time research done on that question has NOT been able to demonstrate any correlation between the prevalence of CWD and the presence of wolves on the landscape.

Good points, and it certainly was not my intent. I know they do look at what other states are doing, that was one of the reasons they stated as a need to raise nr fees in Idaho.

Regards,
Manny

Idaho's been feeding deer and elk for years. They say, though, that the reason isn't starving animals. It's more to keep them pulled away from private land where they destroy huge amounts of hay. Elk have been known to run cattle away from their feed. With hay selling for $300/ton, a herd of elk can cost a rancher many thousands of $$ in a hurry.

Utah cited keeping a herd off a road as a reason for one herd they're feeding.

We can settle this fair and square. Abolish NR licenses in your state and we’ll do the same here. We’d solve the whining about “gouging” real quick. Even Steven.

I don't think it will do a thing. The only thing that will slow it down is if the crowding and low game numbers burn people out.

When the economy tanked in 2008-09, there was almost 20,000 fewer elk hunters in Colorado in 2009-2010. That according to CPW hunter stats. Bidenflation might not be as severe an impact as job losses in 08-09. Some might have to cut back on their bar tabs and not buy a new rifle. 🤣

Yep,in 2008 was when Idaho went all in with $elling tags and making wildlife management secondary to collecting money. That was in response to the sucky economy at the time and decreased sales. IDFG termed it "more hunter opportunity"

The difference now seems to be people are spending/traveling no matter what after being told to stay home for the past couple years.

We're getting there......

Quote
"Twenty plus years ago Colorado had 20K-40K more elk than the habitat/herd objective could support."

If elk numbers are below objective numbers now, how come we supposedly have 308,901 elk in Colorado now as CPW advertised,and it has grown every year..

From the Colorado Outdoors magazine Preference Point issues here are the advertised elk herd counts for the last six years.I have the last 20 year's issues.

2004 274,570 This was reported in the 2006 issue for the 2004 for herd count (First year they published the figures)
2018 277,750
2019 281,700
2020 286,680
2021 292,760
2022 293,590
2023 308,901

If Colorado has 34,000 more elk than the habitat could support in 2004, we should see elk starving now.

Most of the hunting community believes CPW inflates those numbers to sell more tags.

2023 Big Game proclamations are out. March 1st--applications are being accepted. Time to start buying those tags !!

Colorado NR elk license prices have gone from ridiculous to absurd. I suppose CO can raise prices every year since they are linked to the Denver CPI percentage increase. Bidenflation rolling up prices this year and more next year I’m sure.

Mule deer numbers are down big time where we hunt in unit 13 to the point where I don’t think I’ll apply for a deer license this year. I haven’t seen a shooter buck in several seasons, neither has Sako76. I saw a couple of nice bucks at a processor last year but could have come from a ways away. Debating the future of trips to Colorado…

Most of the bigger bucks are coming out of eastern Colorado, but it is almost all private land.There are some big bucks west I-25, but they come hard. I see bigger bucks my yard almost every week. No way would I pay $456 + Habitat Stamp and Qualifying License as a Nonresident to hunt deer in Colorado.

I love to go to the mountains of CO and hunt mule deer. We don’t have them here and to get to hunt them where 4 generations of my family have is a treat. Plus we see a big buck or two on occasion.

The elk tag prices have about priced my gang out of the elk hunting business. Most of them are older now and don’t climb the mountains and run the ridges like they used to. They know that most bulls where we hunt are hard earned and come from burnt boot leather. Most years they aren’t able or interested in burning that boot leather.

One uncle and myself are in good enough shape and know the area and habits of the elk well enough to be successful on a regular basis. We both derive some satisfaction in staying in the %10 of hunters that kill %90 of the elk, more so considering it’s more like %3 of DIY nonresidents.

And last but certainly not least to me. It’s worth every penny spent on the tag when I get back home and see the way my Grandad’s eyes light up when he sees the horns and hears the tale of bagging one. Sappy as it sounds theres very little that’s more special to me than to have him call me an elk hunter.

Yes I think tags are overpriced but I’m going to keep paying as long as my gang is up for making the trip. It’s just the price of admission and a way better deal than spending it in the bar or casino

I'm a 75 Y/O Nevada native, and I haven't drawn a big game tag or any kind for the last three years. I sure have expensive points, though.

To those bitching about high out of state fees, come here, pay taxes, support the DOW in drawings, license fees, and dinners, help build guzzlers, etc. and add a crumb of credibility to your pizzing and moaning.

The State manages all fish and game on federal lands, so the State sets the prices and regulations.

I'm not aware we are below herd objective on a statewide basis. Quite the opposite. What is important are numbers of elk in the DAU's. In some DAU's they are below what is believed carrying capacity. Carrying capacity changes because habitat changes. If the drought continues the southwest regional biologist has mentioned elk numbers may have to be reduced.

Why do you think beginning in the late 90's Colorado began significantly increasing cow tags, and beginning 7-8 years ago began decreasing the number of cow tags--there were plenty of threads here with people complaining they didn't draw their cow tags that they had easily had drawn in the past.

Estimates in 2000 had an overwintering population of 320k plus elk in Colorado. Last I knew the estimate for the amount of available elk winter habitat for Colorado was 285-300k elk.

Have you checked the price of an elk tag (including the cost of any other required licenses that go with the elk tag) in other states?

This is the most cogent argument I've seen on this thread with respect to CO. CO has become a very expensive place to live, plus it is filled with way too many liberals these days.

I've been hunting CO since the 1990s. I've seen the prices climb through the years and ate the increased cost. I'll continue to eat the cost because A. Elk hunting means more to me than $760, B. I can.

I''ll be 60 in May and know I have more years behind me than in front of me. A DIY elk hunt costs ~ $1500. $200 a month is worth it to me. When I had less money, I simply did things that saved money - brought my lunch to work, didn't buy Starbucks coffee, drove used vehicles, and other similar things. Finding $200 a month isn't difficult for most of us.

At the end of the day, quit focusing on the money and focus more on the experience. Some day you won't be able to hunt elk.

Well said Bill. Same here. I’m about at half life.

I figure the only thing that’ll keep me from elk hunting will be my loss of sight

Or do what I do--pray daily for a series of harsh winters like I experienced through the 70's. There are two generations of people living in Colorado who have never experienced a harsh winter here. Some may think they have, but they haven't..........

That's california, without the Elk hunting...

Yes I have. NR licenses are out of sight there, too. When I can’t afford it, I’ll cut back.

All things considered NR hunting is still pretty cheap compared to most vacations.
Personally as a resident of MT I am chit full of NR bitching. It would be nice if the doubled prices and cut NR allocations in half.

Curious if you held that opinion as a MI resident?

I read that a week's trip to Disney World for a family of 4, using in Disney's hotels and restaurants, can easily top $10k.

Why does a MI resident think they deserve cheap elk licenses in MT? Save and go hunt.

i like your thinking next year i will go back to buying a non-resident tag if i get drawn. i still might try for a cow tag there is nothing like elk hunting and being in the mountains. thank you for posting i turn 70 this year i don`t have many hunts left,Pete53

Cow tags are now the same price as bull tags,starting this year. Pete,I turn 80,this year. I missed last year, but am planning to hunt this coming season.

Yes, I did. NR hunting is a cheap vacation all things considered and if anything Montana NR tag prices have not kept up with inflation.

This is exactly it.

A number of eastern states now have elk hunting. Check out their tag and license fees. They aren't much different than the western states and draw hunts are even harder to draw.

If they even offer NR licenses.
All the elk came from Western states yet I think 1 state allows NRs to apply and they give out only 10% of the tags to NRs, hummm.
The state with public land to hunt only allows Residents to apply for the public land hunts.

Those animals came from public lands so guess what, I payed taxes on that land like you all and helped raise those elk so I should get a licenses too, for cheap.
Not how I really think on licenses allocations but guess what if your states did what most western states do for NR elk hunters you all would be crying.

Virginia had their first elk hunt his past season. 6 tags. I think three were non residents.Those elk came from 70 that came from Pennsylvania ten years ago, not western states. Other states have received eastern elk too. Some form Alberta.

Those eastern elk hunts are extremely hard to draw and there are not that many.

Pricing out young guys with families who live in states without elk isn’t something to be proud of in my opinion. Hunting shouldn’t only be a rich man’s game particularly public land DIY style. I’d like my 18 year old grandson to keep hunting after I retire & can’t afford to subsidize him. I’d like the electrician who married the oldest granddaughter to be able to take their 3 boys.

Like the rest of the old farts here it won’t keep me off the mountain unlike crowding & wolves will eventually.

Having to own a truck & potentially an atv/UTV for thousands of dollars, $2,000 binoculars,$1600 in scope & rangefinder & carrying around $1,500 in packs, boots & fancy clothes, gloves all the other BS elk hunters buy cost of elk hunting is expensive & tag costs aren’t the biggest share.

But it gets more expensive every year. Hunters with the most money buy private land guided hunts like Europeans & hunters in Africa. We have always been different in America where a few bucks & more drive, stubbornness & grit could get you a rich man’s trophy on a working man’s salary. I hate to see that end.

Cow tags are still pretty cheap......

In Idaho all NR elk tags are the same price. The problem is availability. The demand far outstrips the supply.

Does anyone bitch about the cost of downhill skiing or golfing or reloading or scuba diving or long range shooting or just about any other hobby? You pick just about any interest or hobby these days and it's going to be expensive if you want to be good at it. A one-day adult lift ticked at Vail is $262. ONE DAY.

Except some rare archery hunts, and they get rarer everyday, hunting in CO has become a lot less hunting and a lot more opening day ambush. Forget calling, stalking, and other true hunting skills, it's now ambush an escape route with a 700-yard-capable rifle and wait. By the third day of the season you can go home as the elk have moved onto private or other inaccessible land. Even the wardens will tell you that now. I actually crave the few days pre-season more than the hunt days now.

Yes actually people do bitch about those things. Church and high school class ski trips around here went extinct a decade ago because it got too expensive for small town kids to raise the funds to go. I know probably two families that still go on ski vacations as opposed to 12 or 15 from a few years back, they all say it’s gotten too expensive.

I know plenty of guys who have given up golfing due to prices. I’m one of them. I never was any good or really into it, but I’d pay the $22 or whatever our local course fee was for 9 holes and a cart to hang out with my buddies and have a friendly competition and a couple beers. Now it’s $75-100 for an afternoon at the course, not worth it for me.

Hunting is much more important to me than any of the other things you listed so I try harder to make it happen. I get both sides of the argument both hunting out of state every year and living in a state that needs to raise their nonres license fees. But nothing I can do about it on either side but make the best of it.

DIY elk hunting in Idaho is pretty cheap for residents. A license and elk tag is about $65 (about $30 for us old farts). Then it's what you spend for a camping trip while carrying a weapon.
Non-res is much higher plus all the crap they have to go through to get a tag.

Another resident of an elk hunting state saying “tough luck”. Too many family connections & time/money invested in our place to move to Colorado for me. Besides how many Californians more can CO take we’ve already screwed up your politics. Everyone I know bitches about rising costs of healthy outdoor hobbies & crowded conditions with rude selfish jerks becoming more common every year. You expect skiers & golfers to have a fair share of elitist pricks - but that’s always been rare with hunters. I’ve introduced several young men to elk hunting & more young people to bird & deer hunting but that won’t be possible when they are priced out. $100 youth tags is something CO definitely gets right.

What's the appropriate price range for a general unit NR elk tag, since everyone thinks it needs to go up?

What's your number? Seems to be missing from your post...

The answer to the problem is all over these posts. The problem is " I'm going no matter what it costs". The answer , dont go as often. Go every other year for out of state. As for me, I went out of state one time in my life. I went to Minnesota bear hunting in 2003. Never applied anywhere neither. Another problem may be is there are anti hunters inside the Department of Natural Resourses and fish and Game departments. They may be jacking the prices way up to milk money out of the ones that can afford it, and leaving the less wealthy at home. I can afford it,, no problem. However, I refuse to pay those prices and compete with people that will pay any price . I hunt bear and deer in Wisconsin. A few times a year I fish Upper Michigan and I am happy enough. Contentment with the Lord is great gain, and my treasure is not on this earth. Too many people in America try to buy their treasures ,, boats, big homes, ETC. It might be a relief for many here to say , screw it, I'm not going this year and stay close to home to hunt. You might find it very relaxing and enjoyable. I hunt deer a lot, but as the years go on, I seem to be more interested in just squirrel and grouse hunting. Son wants to duck hunt and we are going to do that... There are many that live out west that are saying " good, dont want you here anyway." Okay, I can move next do to you if I want to though. I'm happy where I am.

ihookem, the outfitters lobby pushed for the Wyoming increases, no anti hunters in our WG&F pushing that.

We still have reduced price cow tags for the meat hunters and they can get 2 if wanted.

We really don't hate on NRs , just their attitudes of entitlement by some.
Come on out and move here, in Wyoming. I would welcome another hunter to our town. We have plenty of older hunters hanging it up every year, our population is not growing much at all.
NRs on the other hand seem to come out of the woodwork every year come app time for hunting tags.

That's nice to hear Wytex, and thanks for the offer. I am not sure How I would go about shooting an elk, but it sounds fun.

I hunt the ranch next to WAM in Colorado's Unit 13, I've been hunting that area (Units 12 &13) since 1992, I've killed a couple of good bucks on those ranches and have seen a whole bunch more killed on them. I ate the last two deer tags I had, I didn't see anything worth shooting. The deer hunting has gone downhill. So has the elk hunting.

In 2002, I saw well over 1000 elk while hunting including a herd of 600. Now I'm lucky to 20, something is going on, not sure what it is. I meet a lot of guys in town that get skunked, at $750 a tag I wonder how long they will be coming out?

Strange,that is a common theme, but CPW keeps adding to elk numbers every year. Supposedly Colorado has 308,901 elk as of the 2022 herd count.

I hunt Unit 12 during muzzle loader season.Ten years ago I could pretty much guarantee a cow, now the are tough to come by.

Up until two years ago, I also hunted Unit 54, north of Gunnison with an OTC tag, 2nd rifle, for close to 40 years on and off. Usually took a bull every year without much trouble until about about 2010. The herd count went from about 6500 to about 3000. I still killed elk, but they came hard.

Should it be $4500? $2500?

Looks like we’ll see how the $2000 special bull tags sell next year in Wyoming

$200 elk tags would also result in Internet forum teeth gnashing because the number of applicants would increase by orders of magnitude. So what is the solution? It’s a limited resource that is going to result in more than not looking in from the outside.

I think one way to increase the odds of hunting success and potentially bring down costs would be to offer tax credits to private land owners that allow hunting. Other states do that in the form of a managed forest law. It's forestry related, but significant tax discount and you have to allow public on your land if you own more than a certain amount of acres.

The elk disappear onto private land immediately after opening morning gun shots. I've watched them do it, and I'm sure others have too. With more huntable land, pressure on public land would go down and animals would congregate less on private safe havens if they were being hunted there too.

I don't know the answer but it makes me sad for the future.

I've been lucky that I've been able to hunt 6 or so different states. I've taken bear, antelope, elk, whitetail, turkey, hogs and small game.

But those days are disappearing. And quickly.

-Jake

Elk success for us in 2nd rifle season has been great the past 2 years, but 2020 was not good for our bunch. 2005-2008 was super, 2009-2010 was a big bust.it seems like we have two or three good years, then it hits the skids for a couple of seasons. I guess changes in weather, routes, etc. impact the elk movement. Always the “ya shoulda been here last year!”

There's no doubt that the G&F commissions if the western states are largely funded by NR hunters. So why not increase it to $3500 or $5000 for a general unit tag for NR?

I guess one could ask why the average G&F department needs to increase their income 5X off the NR that already largely funds them. What good are they going to do with those extra funds? I’m not saying that they wouldn’t do great things with the extra money, they might, but then again they might not. I’m not confident that my home state’s game department wouldn’t squander any extra revenue on stupid stuff. I don’t have direct experience with the G&F departments in states other than my own and CO but I’m always leery of giving any .gov agency extra money and expecting them to do the right thing.

They will do exactly what all Govt. agencies do when given More Money--Grow the agency, buy more pickups, build more buildings, hire more people. Very little will see it's way to wild life programs. Any additional funds derived from additional tag prices must be strictly earmarked for wildlife programs by state legislators or they will be misused!!!
Just because Directors of G&f departments are former biologists doesn't mean they are not politicians. How did they get the the job in the first place?

Careful what you give a politician. What they say and do will likely be very different!
Good Hunting
Lj

I'd bet that everyone will be sold.

Well, I thought there was call to raise NR tag price? I guess not?

Yep they sure will.
Still reasonably priced elk tags in Wyoming , just do your homework.

I would say our game and fish doesn't have any extra $. You folks don't realize the sh@t they have to deal with do to things like the Endangered species act. Millions of dollars spent of things like the black footed ferret. Hunting costs money as a resident I am darn sure I pay more for all of my tags than you do for you state's hunting license. Either pay or go somewhere else.

So, $4K for NR tag?

I guess!

I would bet a vast majority of Wyoming residents would be willing to pay 100 or 200% more than they do now if it meant less NR hunters.

I can't blame them either.

TR, I guess it would depend on the unit, if I would pay that or not.

You’re right, they will. The regular odds will go to shiit, hopefully the special odds will get better. The antelope and deer at $1200 a pop In special will get better I’m sure

Correction, not that it’s all about me, but the taste of quality animals, with limited people, sure is appealing. Tasted it a couple years ago in Wyoming on our antelope hunt, amazing hunt, didn’t see another hunter, public land for miles. I’d do it every year given the chance

That was because 2008 winter had a big winter kill. It took CPW two years to mention edit. If they advertise those winter kills NR won't buy the licenses.

The psyche is interesting.

I suppose the system could be pushed until general unit tag demand from NR is non-existent. It seems like that is the desire, but no one will put a number on it.

I'd suggest at $4K, demand drops precipitously for a general unit tag. Of course, you are probably excluding 90% of NR hunters at that price point.

Maybe it's $5-6K.

Rich man's game at some point.

And there lies the problem. It's a rich mans game and that is no good. There are comments here that even say it should be $2,000 or even $4,000, pay it or stay home... Well, ok , maybe we will stay home, but where would that get the west states? Some here from the west think that the world revolves around elk and deer tags... I got news for them. We ALL need each other. NO? Ok, little story here. I had relatives in central Wis. where my dad was born. I used to hear uncles snicker at me cause I "was from the city"... Guess where they went when they got sick?? Yep, Milwaukee. They said several times, " Don't need nuthin from the city"... As they got in their GMC pickup.... with a Pabst Blue Ribbon in their hand. I got news for anyone here that seems snide that they
"live in elk country". You need us a lot more than we need you, and thats a fact. No? Ok, you'll just shoot elk and raise my beef... YA, you think so? Where will you get your gas? Many think it comes from the gas station down the road... Ya? HAH, that gas comes from the city. The additives, the tires, steel, tranny, oil, gear lube, machined parts made in Milwaukee go all over the world. My BIL, works at a place that makes wire tubing that goes in your heart when you need heart surgery Anyone here have heart surgery? He makes paint sprayers and hundreds of other things. Three miles down the road , we have a little shop that makes ,,,,,, ,, wait for it,, springs ,, yes they ship all over the world. They might be in the tractor , car , lawn mower you have. .. ... and ,,, and as much as I hate Chitcago,,, I admit , I need Chitcago,, and so does everyone on this sight... Why? It gets plain to see if you ever drive through there. Many commenters here think it is just black people killing each other . Going down I 94, there is industry for 50 miles. Yep, from the last farm field you see to the next one you see , is at least 50 miles. If Chitcago fell into Lake Michigan , it would stop the supply chain in this country like you wouldnt believe. I hate to admit this, but then New Orleans, New York City, San Fran And San Diego , Miami. Much of Everything goes through half a dozen cities in this country... OK , you're a farmer, no farmers , no food.. True, then you make the 6' high 2' wide Good Year tires on your farm tractor without anything from the city and do it without ANY subsidies... Deal?? Oh, and that diesel fuel ,,, likely comes from Houston , 4th biggest city in the country.. MAN IS THAT A BIG CITY! The steel , from South Korea, China, Ohio , Pittsgurg ETC.. comes into the ports. I know people who work there and on the rail road to get you supplies. I support them by remodeling and fixing their houses so they can live there. YOU NEED US WAY MORE THAN WE NEED TO HUNT ELK. SO, you have elk huh??? You should be glad to have us come there and hunt elk, cause we could buy most of you out, and live there. OH,, I'm laughing already!! You aint selling? Yes, you are from what I hear, and no one is taking it with them. Later, ihookem.

Well if the world doesn't revolve around elk tags. You have no problem. Ohio is a great place for you.

I don't know where Ohio came from but I live in Wisconsin. And Ohio can be a great place to live and so is Wisconsin, and you would starve if it was not for the cities. And again, the world does not revolve around elk tags. You learned something today.

We learned your meds wear off later in the afternoon.

Paragraphs make for more enjoyable reading, otherwise it is just rambling.

So how many fewer NR's will apply? It's only been going up for years.....

Prediction, more will apply than there are tags available, and you'll still have a case of the "red azz". I get why you are upset, living in "tax hell" and not having elk to hunt. That's a double kick to the nutz.

Yes it is tax hell, and no elk,,, however we have some real good deer hunting , some bear and much better fishing. Just the way it is here . I can be in Canada every year if I want... No thanks, Minnesota bear every year or very cheap, no thanks. I started fishing the Bay of Green Bay and like it. The Great Lakes is some of the best trout and salmon in the country,, maybe the best. Again,, I can go live there is I want. I can afford to live anywhere, and likely right down the road to anyone in Wyoming. Honestly, the best way is if you drew a tag for a state that has less tags than applications you wait 3 yrs. This can get some here mad,, they think they need to go every year. Dont go a few years , and do something else. You might find it kind of nice to not go if you have gone many times. I have a nephew that lived in Wyoming . He hated it. Lots of antelope though. I certainly dont see it like most , and it is cause my treasures are not on this earth.
Also, I dont take any meds.. Never never did. However, that reminds me of a thread a few years back on what meds people are on... Many posters here wrote back and it was amazing the anti depressants people here were taking...

More nonsensical ramblings



Boomers these days lol

I’m in rural southern CA still drive into the city everyday to make a living, but like many here I won’t be starving any time soon. A well, solar power, grow & produce our vegetables, fruit, eggs etc on our own. We have enough small & big game available & can trade with neighbors for other items - have wood cooking & heating.

Do I want to do without the modern conveniences - no. Can I do so without starving - yes & indefinitely.

There are indeed people who think they need to hunt elk every year. I am one of them. I moved to Colorado in 74 so I could. As I aged, I changed tactics, gear, etc. Now as I will be 80 this year, I am very limited, but I will still do my darnedest to go. I might only be able to get 50-75 yards from my mule, but I will watch the sunrise and the forest come live, and put it to bed at night. If an elk comes by I will take it home with me.If not, I will still enjoy the hunt.Those that are city dwellers don't have a clue about that..

People think every thing comes from the city, but everything we use or eat comes from rural areas It is grown in the dirt, mined from the dirt, or drilled into the dirt. If it were not for farming, ranching, mining, drilling, city people would not survive.

Saddle,

That's really impressive, hunting at 80. And you nailed it about most city folk. They are clueless to how the world works...and worse yet, they vote.

And that is good that you still get out there and and getting an elk is fine too. And many " city dwellers" dont have a clue, and mining , farming , ranching is where you live , and not in the city. I see trains every day going west. They have cars, trucks , diesel fuel and likely crude oil, and who knows what else. it comes from the ports of Chitcago, Milwaukee, Duluth, MN. and New York.. It comes back with wheat from Montana and no doubt the Dakotas. Sure, many city people get pissed when they stop for a train and never realize how important they are. I see lumber, likely from out west and Canada, milled in the west. However, without " city people" there would be no mills, or lumber jobs.. SO, for the ignorant and small minded people here that post bla bla bla, I will make you a deal, I will never hunt a western state. In exchange you can only buy what is made in 100 miles of your home, with materials gotten locally. You will find out real quick that being selfish with elk tags and saying we should pay $2, 000 or $4,000 for an elk tag is quite shallow. And SaddleStore is right, City people would not survive, however , no one in the country would neither. Again, I could live there, but I am content here.

Go to CPW website and ruminate on the Commission March meeting. Elk hunting as we know it for NR hunters is soon to change and not for the better. What do you expect from the weenie washer governor’s appointees and drones in Parks and Wildlife?

You got that right !!!!!!

Off topic,but:
I think I would survive longer. I can grow enough vegetables to feed us every year. If I don't get an elk and need meat, I can go to a local rancher and buy a beef or hog and butcher it myself. I can get flour and corn from a local co-op and grind it myself. If I need to go to town and have no fuel, I can hitch the mule to a wagon and go. If necessary, I can heat my house with wood and cook on that stove.Water I can get from a pond or lake and filter it. Most city folks can't do any of that.

Yea,there are things I would have to do without, but my biggest problem would be keeping those that can't survive, from taking from me. I think I have that covered.

That sounds pretty good plan.. I have 4 ac. kind of in the country. I have all kinds of water. I have a garden and can go a lot bigger. As for meat ,I am not usre the farmers would sell t to me though. Later.

The NR elk tag thread has turned into an apocalypse thread. Perfect. Perfect.

Well it wasn't going anywhere any way.These types of threads, the best info is the first two pages. After that is is zip

If an apocalypse happened and shooters started popping elk on their wintering grounds, there wouldn't be an elk left to migrate in the spring.

It's in their state? They do as they wish. Your money is their money.
Dirty rats.

Good grief man read the law passed in 2005, state have the right by law to charge more for NR hunting and fishing licenses.

109-13 section 6036

Public Law 109–13
109th Congress
An Act
Making Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Defense, the Global War on
Terror, and Tsunami Relief, for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2005, and
for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami
Relief, 2005’’.
SEC. 2. TABLE OF CONTENTS.
The table of contents for this Act is as follows:
Sec. 1. Short title.
Sec. 2. Table of contents.
Sec. 3. References.
DIVISION A—EMERGENCY SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS FOR
DEFENSE, THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR, AND TSUNAMI RELIEF, 2005
Title I—Defense Related Appropriations
Title II—International Programs and Assistance for Reconstruction and the War on
Terror
Title III—Domestic Appropriations for the War on Terror
Title IV—Indian Ocean Tsunami Relief
Title V—Other Emergency Appropriations
Title VI—General Provisions and Technical Corrections


Section 6036

RESIDENT AND NONRESIDENT HUNTING AND FISHING REGULATIONS
SEC. 6036. STATE REGULATION OF RESIDENT AND NONRESIDENT
HUNTING AND FISHING. (a) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be
cited as the ‘‘Reaffirmation of State Regulation of Resident and
Nonresident Hunting and Fishing Act of 2005’’.
(b) DECLARATION OF POLICY AND CONSTRUCTION OF CONGRESSIONAL SILENCE.— (1) IN GENERAL.—It is the policy of Congress that it is
in the public interest for each State to continue to regulate
Reaffirmation of
State Regulation
of Resident and
Nonresident
Hunting and
Fishing Act
of 2005.
Contracts.
Mississippi.
Minerals.
VerDate 14-DEC-2004 19:15 Jun 02, 2005 Jkt 039139 PO 00013 Frm 00059 Fmt 6580 Sfmt 6581 E:\PUBLAW\PUBL013.109 APPS10 PsN: PUBL013
119 STAT. 290 PUBLIC LAW 109–13—MAY 11, 2005
the taking for any purpose of fish and wildlife within its boundaries, including by means of laws or regulations that differentiate between residents and nonresidents of such State with
respect to the availability of licenses or permits for taking
of particular species of fish or wildlife, the kind and numbers
of fish and wildlife that may be taken, or the fees charged
in connection with issuance of licenses or permits for hunting
or fishing.
(2) CONSTRUCTION OF CONGRESSIONAL SILENCE.—Silence on
the part of Congress shall not be construed to impose any
barrier under clause 3 of Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution (commonly referred to as the ‘‘commerce clause’’) to the
regulation of hunting or fishing by a State or Indian tribe.
(c) LIMITATIONS.—Nothing in this section shall be construed—
(1) to limit the applicability or effect of any Federal law
related to the protection or management of fish or wildlife
or to the regulation of commerce;
(2) to limit the authority of the United States to prohibit
hunting or fishing on any portion of the lands owned by the
United States; or
(3) to abrogate, abridge, affect, modify, supersede or alter
any treaty-reserved right or other right of any Indian tribe
as recognized by any other means, including, but not limited
to, agreements with the United States, Executive Orders, statutes, and judicial decrees, and by Federal law.
(d) STATE DEFINED.—For purposes of this section, the term
‘‘State’’ includes the several States, the District of Columbia, the
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, American
Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.

The apocalypse WILL happen on Colorado's elk herds when FWP releases wolves there. Then Colorado FWP can proudly say that they once HAD the largest elk herd in the world.

Are youbsuggesting that if NR elk tags where cut tommorow all commerce would stop in retribution?
I think that highly unlikely.
The fact is the western states do not need a single NR hunter should they chose to do that.

Should be mentioned this was taken to the Supreme Court and upheld. NR have zero rights to western game.

Of course I'm not saying that . I am saying there are people here that think that out of state people should have to pay as much as $4,000 for them or stay home. Many think the world revolves around their elk and deer tags out west. I am also saying that everyone here needs everyone. Many people, where I live included , think the city people would not make it. You may be surprised. No, they cant grow their own food. However, when a ship did come into the port, what is in it would not get past the city. Gas, diesel fuel, meds,,, know anyone on meds? Seems half the Campfire is on them. Food , tires, coal, clothes, it all comes into the ports of big cities. Many say , I have a garden.. Yes, so do I , however, it takes over 2 months just to grow corn potatoes, ETC. This " country Boy Can Survive" is mostly hogwash. I live what most would say in the country and i hear it quite a bit. I am saying they should not be so shallow. I think you know what I meant however.

To be clear. I don't hate Non residents. In the the past many years I have taken quite a few, introduced them to elk hunting and have gotten them elk. Taught them how to pack elk and care for their mount . A few from this forum even. I have supplied them with with mules to ride, mules to pack out their elk, tents, camp gear at no charge, nor did I expect any. My cost in keeping each mule alone for a year totals more than any nonresident elk license cost. I pay about $1000 a year for hay and grain alone for each mule. That doesn't count the riding saddles, pack saddles, pads, britching, breast collars,bridles, hobbles, high lines, shoeing, truck and trailer big enough to haul everything.

Yet every year I have nonresident hunters, complete strangers, that didn't think about how to get their elk out, come and knock on my tent pole or camper asking me to pack out their elk out. They think I should do it for nothing..Never mind that it will take a day out my hunting. If they offer me money and I tell them I am not a licensed outfitter and the fine for doing so is huge to me.They don't believe me and go away mad, cussing out the resident. The going rate now is about $600 per elk.

Colorado treats their residents worse than any other western states in terms of elk quotas for residents vs nonresidents. Right now, IMO Colorado is over carrying capacity with hunters,. The elk herds a cannot sustain the unlimited OTC tags that are being sold, and a lot of the draw tags. Even archery seasons are over hunted just because of the hunting pressure. We are seeing success rates dwindling, but CPW will not give up their cash cows. More and more money comes in,but goes to salaries and parks and less to wildlife management.

You a good man Saddlestore!! And the resident should have some respect. As for me , we have hunters come from all over to grouse hunt in northern Wis. They are more than welcome as far as I am concerned. Those grouse hunters from the south are darn serious. They spend thousands to come here. I ask if they saw any deer, I tell them where I saw some grouse.

You do realize what that will do to the Wyoming fish and game revenue, right?

Only a fool would hunt ruffs when you could hunt sharptail,huns, and chukar...

For a long time, Kansas didn't allow NR deer hunting until it was threatened by other states not to allow Kansas hunters to hunt BG in their states. Kansas then realized how much revenue NR BG hunters brought in for the agency and the state, consequently NR BG hunters were allowed to participate. When money becomes the driving factor for BG wildlife management in any state, there will be no ceiling to how much can be charged for tags.

Don't worry saddlesore the wolves you got will thin the elk and nrs out, then maybe they can take out some of the granolas too..mb

It's all for sport Jackson. These guys from Tennessee and Misourri can be her in 8 hrs. and have fun doing it. DOnt know why anyone would call someone a fool for hunting ruffed grouse. So anyone here who has ever hunted Ruffed Grouse is a fool.. However, if they all did coem out west to hunt Sharptails, Huns and Chuckar from out of state,, you would complain about that too. You could not have made my point any better .

Or someone who doesn't live where there are sharptail, huns, and chukar.

Smokepole, I have onky hunted Ruffed grouse. Are they others as fast as the Ruffed? When I was a kid, I could hit about 1/3. Now that I am 60 , I hit about 1 in 10. They are just too fast for me.

I'm not sure which is faster, but I'm like you, ruffed grouse are plenty fast and hard to hit for me.

Chukar and huns are just as fast, though there rarely is a need to shoot through brush like there often is with ruffeds.

I hunt all these and more. I am not afraid to travel....

Huns live in moderately steep country. For the most part, they aren't bad to hunt. Chukkars, however, live in some hellacious country. You'd better be in shape to hunt those. They're hard to hit when you're dragging your tongue in the dirt.

Cool yer jets, it was a joke...lighten up Francis. And it's spelled CHUKAR, not chuckar, not chukker, chukkar, chuckker. It's Chukar Partridge (alectoris chukar)

And to polesmoker, he said the hunters "come from all over", indicating they travel there to hunt ruffed grouse. They're nuts. If'n one is going to travel for birds, go after something worth it. (Again, just a joke for the slow-on-the-uptake boomers)

I take no issue with out of state hunters, however those out of state hunters have zero room to complain or whine....me included (as I hunt different states). You either play by their rules or don't.

Lots of people just like to hunt ruffed grouse, for slow on the uptake people of any age.

I know. It was a joke.

I know. And not a very good one.

I will make sure to run all my posts through you first for approval.

That will result in a huge improvement in the quality of your posts, good thinking.

Are you going to be able to approve of my posts this weekend or will you be polesmoking at the rendezvous?

I don't know of any rendezvouses, you'll need to polesmoke without me. You seem infatuated with the concept.

Not going to hang with yer bha pards? Surprising..........

LOL, I haven't been a member for years now. But good on you for digging that up. It's very relevant to the topic.

I just wanted to remind you how phuggin stupid you are. Glad it made both of us laugh...LOL

You can hunt for miles in NW WIsconsin. Numbers kind of seem on the upswing. Price county is likely the surest bet . I know a guy who hunts quite a bit. He likes Price county about the best, maybe eastern Sawyer co. Lots of public bring a compass, the woods are darn thick.
And to keep the message on track , Ironically , you might even see an elk. There are very few however. The DNR planted 125 from Kentucky of all places in 1996. They said there would be huntable numbers in 25 yrs. There are still only a few hundred. They were doing fine till the wolves came in . There might just be 200 altogether. Real sad what the wolves did. I'm sure no one here will believe me when I tell them I feel sorry for the guys who live in elk country. If those wolves take off, the numbers will reduce 50% in 10 yrs. I never would have believed what I see every spring in Price and Sawyer co. where I have land and a cabin since 1989. You could hunt deer, go in the woods and sit downwind from a few trails and see a few deer here and there. Not many, winters are hard there many years. Now, you can hunt all weekend and not see a deer. We hunt opening weekend every year for fun. Between me and my son, on a 2 day hunt, we are lucky to see one deer each. I can walk a mile and find just a few buck rubs in the big woods. After a 2 mile walk , we saw 1 buck rub and a few ground scrapes in the Flambeau River State Forest. The deer are so scarce that even the wolves seemed to have moved out. There are grouse there however. The

LOL again, it just reminded me of how stupid you are.

And an aśśhole to boot, quite a combination.

You have me mistaken as a person that GAF about WY’s bloated govt and bureaucracy.

Additionally, ihookem has an elementary understanding of western economics. That coal and oil you see in the Midwest likely came from us. Enjoy processing WTF-ever it is you people do without electricity, cOunTRy bOY.

We dont use much coal anymore
I have a real good understanding and have been proving it with my posts. I have been saying all along , in this world everyone needs everyone. As for coal, we would get by just fine without it and dont even use much anymore. If all you can come up with is coal, then , my understanding is far superior to yours. Coal is one product of thousands to keep this supply chain going. We use mostly natural gas and coal likely goes to India . When we do get coal, it can come from West Virginia. . Saying we would be stuck without your coal is as shallow as me saying you would never drink milk again without Wisconsin. Most oil does not come from western states unless you talk Permian and that is Texas , not exactly the west, even though west Texas is kind of the west Bakken is mostly in N. Dakota and hardly a western state. . As for whateve the F we do? We make so much in S.E. Wis. you wouldn't believe.

All those trains pass through Wyoming, all those trucks on I-80 hauling your stuff. What happens if those quit being allowed through ? Yes they can go around but I don't think they will like that, your stuff will be a lot more expensive too.

Face the facts, states have the right to charge whatever they want for hunting licenses. Pick a state and apply. you have lots of options, try one of the Eastern states for elk, Oh yeah only 1 offers NR licenses. How is that fair?

And how is it every NR thinks their tax money funds our state or the federal land in it? Your tax dollars might just be funding a refuge on the East coast just as easy as public land out West.

No, it’s pretty clear you’re ignorant and lack even a basic fundamental understanding of energy flows; nor does “everyone need everyone”. You’re the walking embodiment of “garbage in, garbage out”. Makes sense, though, you come from a “progressive” urbanized state where living right outside Milwaukee or Madison makes you a cOUntrY bOy.

Well WYTEX, who is going to stop them from going through on a federal interstate? Are you going to stop them??? How, and why? As for elk licenses, I dont bother going. Never all that intersting to me and again, I am happy fishing the great Lakes Region. Thanks anyway. And I never said they didnt have the right to charge what they wanted. I never said that , never implied it neither. As for Gig grz, again, if you dont think you need anything from the big cities , then go without anything from there. Again , you will find how much you need from the big cities. You cant even pop a beer without something from the cities. Again, car tires, gas , diesel, and hundreds of other things. However, you blindly sit in NW Wy. thinking you dont need us. Again you would be in a world of hurt. As for " progressive " urbanized state. I dont live in an urban area , I live in farm country , and learn how to read, I never said I was a country boy, I said I hear that all the time. As for my voting district, it is very likely more conservative than yours. We voted in Senator Ron Johnson , by the way. Talk about conservative , he is it.

I still don't know what you are complaining about. If you don't want to pay the amount for the tag, don't. They won't miss you.

I know that , and I am not complaining. I am so busy where I live I wont spend the time or money. The message started out with people that think out of state license should be $2,000 to $4,000 dollars. I replied some here think the world revolves around elk and deer tags and it does not . Many residents have a snide and biased attitude about an out of state person, even guys from Wisconsin fishing in Upper Michigan. I keep saying it is sad and foolish. many go out west to shot some deer and elk. Residents should not be so prejudice. Again, it is a very small part of life . Everyone needs everyone . Some here even say they dont need anything from the city. It is amazing how they say this driving down the road in a pickup with parts from all over the world, and mostly made in big cities. I said in my first post, I hate the cities, but I need them.

So you are just biatching to biatch? You seem to type a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Wyoming doesn't "need" you. Pay up, or sit at home. They will sell out regardless.

Well, in fairness, no one really committed to $4K NR tag. They danced around it.

Truth: Put up the money or stfu and stay home.

You don’t have to like being bent over for high NR fees. You just have to tolerate it or not…

I pay for everyone I get and hunt elk most years as a NR. But most can't.

If $4K is your number, I'm fine. Just state it.

I don't know where the energy supply chain started. I know I live 45 min from one of the largest coal plants left in this country and all the coal comes from north Dakota.

A lot of $60 resident tags will have to be sold to equate to one $4K NR tag. Who's gonna get priority in this situation?

That's more than 4x the Idaho NR price for a license and elk tag. They allot 10% of the tags to NR so residents are getting the priority.

That's just it. In many western states game management has went out the window in the name of keeping those NR dollars flowing in. Formerly prime hunting areas likenthe Missouri breaks and SE montana are a shell of what they where do to this.

I'm not sure you understand that while everyone depends on others for basic commerce we don't depend on NR hunting our states for anything other than bloated fish and game department budgets. Most of that money is pissed away IMO

My solution is to sell one hunting rifle per year to pay for high NR elk tags. At that rate, I’ll be hunting until age 104 and have to start selling off optics… 🤣

I propose that anyone considering hunting elk in a state other than the one they reside in, instead send a check for $1000.00 to that states department of revenue, order a cut & wrapped beef from your local rancher & take your wife on a decent vacation. You will have more money in your pocket & more, much higher quality, table fare. As a resident of an out of state destination hunting state, I would be behind adopting something similar to what Alaska requires for certain species, that being out of state residents can only hunt with a licensed outfitter.

I live in pa but have a small camp I purchased in Montana almost 10 years ago. When I bought the camp, you could buy an elk tag over the counter. Those days are long gone. In those short 10 years I have seen the number of hunters increase and in my perception the number of elk decrease. If I’m lucky, I can get a tag every two, sometimes every three years depending on my luck in the draw. It’s crazy how times change. Will I continue to hunt in Montana every chance I can get? Absolutely! I’ll only be able to hike the mountains for so many years. And unfortunately if I can only draw a tag every three years, I have more time to save for the hunt.

And I support selling off 99.9% of the Federal land in Montana to the highest bidder.

So you have the schidt of paying high prices for a lease to take your kid hunting?

Typical moron Texan.

The proposals for that entail selling it or turning to over to the states. Some would sell off lands and some states would keep most intact.
Guess who gets make all the hunting laws then, states' land and wildlife.

I expect crowds & wolves will eventually stop my annual elk hunt in CO maybe even before my goal of 70 in 7 seasons. I’ve had great experiences & success & was hoping my grandkids would enjoy the same.

I plan to shoot every big coyote I see now that the state has forced me to buy a small game license. I’ll encourage the same for others in my group & friends. Everyone knows we hunters from CA aren’t great at game identifying but we know coyotes in CO are much bigger than ours.

The last thing I would due while elk hunting is shoot coyotes.

In a few years, all you will see is those big Coyotes.

Well, not if you'd filled your tag already.

That is why residents call CPW the Department of Tourism. It is the only thing they are promoting with those falsely inflated numbers.

No, even then, I headed home. A camp outside Leadville was a no go for coyotes. I wanted down...

C'mon Ed, at least break out the fly rod and live a little!

Heck yeah. Some of my favorite times in camp are goofing around after I’m tagged out. I literally won’t go home early if I was getting paid to, I’m on vacation when I’m in camp and work is the last place I want to go back to.

My sentiments exactly. I've even said that in camp, "do what you want, but I'm on vacation here."

And then go grill a big fat vacation-sized steak on the fire, or some fresh cutthroat trout.

For me, that's not why I elk hunt...

Yep and yep.

b, you're welcome in my camp any time. Just remember, I'm on vacation!!

The following just came into my email.
"According to Montana FWP, the number of resident hunters in Montana has dropped 7 percent in the last decade, while non-resident hunters have jumped 80 percent in the same time frame.

Much public land can't be use productively, usually because of a lack of water or terrain unsuitable for any commercial use. It's ideal for anyone wanting their own piece of paradise. The ultra-wealthy will bid very high prices for it then fence it off. We lose all access and paradise is lost for the other 99.9% of our citizens. Privatizing public land is one of the stupidest things we could do.
Yeah, sell it off, idiots.

It was just shy of $1500 for my Montana deal this year.

I don't know about public land out west but back east, the national forests were mostly once privately-owned. The federal government bought up land for the national forests, and the sellers were happy to sell the least valuable land but held on to all the good farmland.


But I agree, selling off our public lands would be about the stupidest thing we could do. People think tags are expensive, add trespass fees to that, if you could find a place that would let you hunt. These days, the people with enough money to buy huge tracts of land aren't exactly hunter-friendly. If you want to see what hunting would look like on all private land, look to Europe.

In the west, all the land was originally federal. They gave much of it away to homesteaders through the Homestead Act and other programs, not to mention the railroads. The lack of foresight in congress with their checkerboard railroad land grants is the reason for the corners trespassing situation today in WY and other states.

What we see here is the homesteader established their land along the bottoms. Then eventually bought other homesteaders out that could not make it. Now they control all the bottom land which locks up all the mountainous country in back of them,giving no access

It’s the same here.

For Montana, Wyoming and Utah as well as about 1/2 of Colorado I'd suggest skipping this coming season. I am betting 2023 is going to suck.

The winter kill here is very bad. Game numbers will be VERY diminished, so I believe most of the hunts will be a waist of money and time. I live in the middle of some very good elk, deer and antelope areas, BUT i AM NOT GOING TO EVEN BUY TAGS AT ALL.

I want the game herds to build back up in numbers.

Make your own decisions, but if any non-residents are going to spend a lot of many and travel a long way, I'd give some advice to go a lot farther south then the mid Rockies. Many of out hears of Antelope, deer and elk are way down now. Some over 50%. A few smaller deer areas are down 85%.
I think it's best to let them build their numbers back.

Southern ID has lots of mountain snow but along the Snake River plain where lots of deer, elk, and antelope winter, there's very little snow.

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/0...s-of-pinedale-area-deer-expected-to-die/

Applied for MT NR last night.

I hope you're young, it'll take a hell of a long time to build deer & antelope #'s back up. We're getting hammered again today with azz-loads of snow.

About 5 years ago, we had a bad winter with a very high mule deer kill off. The IDFG collared a bunch of fawns to track them and 100% of them died. They made up for the loss the following year as most of the does I saw had twins.

It is not bad all over Wyoming, we are just fine in our part of the state.
Unless this storm brings feet of snow it will not be an issue over here.
You all on the West side need a break for sure.
Pronghorn will bounce back pretty quick with twin and maybe triplet fawns.

Our deer herd has never come back and it was one of the best in the state. Sad.

What does an IL or IA non res elk tag cost?

They're priceless.

Makes the other states seem like a bargain.

Today is the last day for applications in Colorado. Good Luck to all on the draw.

Hope to draw my favorite unit with my son this year. If there's no elk we'll go bear hunting and trout fishing.


It's vacation time, dammit!!

I shoot everything that looks like a coyote unless I have elk in sight. I can’t count the times I’ve sat glassing and passed on a coyote and didn’t see an elk all day. I sometimes carry an extra rifle when turkey hunting in case Wile E. strolls by.

Montana's deer herd is 25% of what it was in the 90's.