i'm looking to build a 300blackout SBR. i'm looking to keep it around 8" with a 1 in 7 twist. who makes the most accurate barrel and where can i find one without a Long wait. I'm going to pick up my trust today so i do have a little time but would like to to maybe start working up loads with a pistol lower. I want to keep it sub moa would like to keep it .5 moa which i hear is capable. not concerned with money as much as i am accuracy. also i will be shooting sub sonic through a suppressor.

I think you will be disappointed.
Expecting that accuracy from that type AR just isn't going to happen with a human behind the rifle.

Having said that, the most accurate barrel would be a high end custom with a tight match chamber and properly headspaced bolt. Why do you need a .5 MOA SBR???

Which means you'll be shooting a 100yd rifle. You need half-moa, for what? Gnat/fly control? You ain't thinkin' to clearly.

i need .5 because it sucks having a gun that aint accurate. i shoot a lot of long range and have rifles that shoot extremly accurate and i want this one to do the same if it is capable. If the gun will do it then i will do it. I will not be the problem. Why would anybody want a gun that won't reach it's full potential. that makes no sense to me. I don't need shooting advice i need barrel advice. i'm new to the ar world but not to the long range accuracy world.

yes i will be shooting 100 yards. why is it not capable? because its an AR? ive seen plenty of bolt guns shoot .5 with subsonic. i'm just not happy nor will i ever be happy with a rifle that shoots a 2" group

Years ago my friend had a 9" 300 whisper barrel for his contender, and it was capable of 1/2 moa with 220gr mk loaded supbsonic though it was not supressed. Not just a wild claim from a buddy, I shot a 3 shot 1 ragged hole group with it with my hands numb as the temps were in the teens. Now if a break open handgun is capable of that accuracy, there is no reason an AR can't achieve the same accuracy.

I don't want to start the 300 whisper vs 300 AAC blackout argument, but you might want to consider SSK industries.

As far as not having a long wait, if your goal is top accuracy find who does the best work and wait as long as it takes.

Okay, you're gonna play "long-range" with 220 grains at 1050fps? That is a 100yd cartridge, in case you ain't figured it out yet. With a 220gr SMK @1050fps with a 100yd zero, that bullet will drop TEN INCHES between 250yd and 275yd. With an angle of incidence on the target like that, ANY range estimation will likely result in a miss or a wound.

So, like I said earlier, a half-moa rifle, chambered in a short range round, is completely superflous. You could make a solid arguement for MOA, which most good AR's are capable of, but rejecting an AR barrel 'cause it ain't half-moa capable, chambered in a 100yd cartridge, is silly.

Terry Cross happens to know a wee-bit about LR shooting, he said that a one moa rifle will win any tactical rifle match in the country, if you'll do.

Anyway, you will need a 1 in 8 twist to stablize 220's and 240's, in case you didn't know.

If you'll read the post i said i wanted a 1 in 7 twist barrel that will handle the 240's, i'm well aware that this gun is a 100 yard gun and that is what it will be used for. this is not a long range gun i have other guns to shoot long range. i dont know why it is so hard for some people to understand that with the right parts you can make a good shooting gun. you have so many comments and still havn't made any suggestions that i asked for in my post.

These guy's would be my first choice.

http://saternmachining.com/home

May I ask why a good chrome lined barrel is out of the question for a SBR? Are you going to be shooting it from a bench mostly? Why not just build a precision rifle if thats what you are after?

I shoot in F class, Modified F class and F/TR matches yearly. I understand the satisfaction of a accurate, long range rifle. I just dont know why you would be so concerned with the accuracy of a rifle designed for up close and personal use.

As I said above, the most accurate will be a high end custom. Krieger, Lilja, Rock Creek, Obermeyer etc... with a match chamber and headspaced bolt.

Getting ANY AR to shoot .5 MOA consistently is not easy. Even with a premium barrel and match ammo its not easily done. Lots of practice, reloading, shooting fundamentals are involved with that kind of precision. Its not like pulling the trigger on a bolt gun.

If you figure out how, let us know.

ETA: I don't mean to criticize your plans. But if I have a better understanding of what you wanted from the rifle, I can give you better answers.

I don't think it matters what we think someone needs but only what they think they need.

Noveske is famous for building SBR's that run well and for accurate SS barrels. But no one that I'm aware of has rounded up barrels from all manufacturers and tested them for accuracy in an 8" SBR.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bi...earch=&since=&status=&title=

The problem with the question is he wants it now.

The most accurate barrel is 20".

I can understand the OP's question, just as I understand my Buds spending many thousands of dollars to shoot tiny groups with their 22LR's at 100 yards.

OP, i'd check Noveske.

Gunner

Mine is a Noveske, and no doubt capable of that kind of accuracy. Good luck finding one though. I waited months for mine back before all this mess.

-Dan

I am not sure the blackout is where you want to start regards an accurate rifle.

i have 3 ar15's 2 6.8's and a 223/5.56. with the right ammo they all shoot .5 at 100yds. the 223 barrel is a dpms,one of my 6.8 barrels is a model 1 sales.i was told the other 6.8 is wilson,but i don't know that for sure. they are all 16in because i'm not lugging a 10lb rifle around the woods.

i'm not fan of the 300,i'd go 6.5grendel or 6.8. i've been thinking about the 308arrow.

I see a lot of people claim .5 MOA rifles but when it comes to testing and competition they are few and far between.

Accuracy test with Noveske barrels:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/467919_.html

Shilen or PacNor would be the first i would look at and then Wilson has some good barrels but not sure you will get the 1/2 inch groups with the Blackout

some of my buddies used to say the same thing,its amazing how losing a few dollars shuts them up. i reload for all 3,like i said with the right ammo most of them will do it.

As far as I know Noveske uses Pac-Nor barrels and I've heard some good things about them.

Noveske match barrels are made with pac-nor equipment but not by pac-nor people. This was the case the last time I heard anyway.

Just curious but what are your standards to say it shoots .5moa at 100yards? I have plenty of rifles that will give the occasional .5 moa but they (and me) dont do it every day.

I honestly thought I had a .5 moa rifle (Surgeon .243) until I did the 30 shot challenge, a total of six groups with a .5moa average. I was close at .55 but it was still not there.

.55? That's just rounding error. You don't have a .50 moa rifle, but you do have a .5 moa rifle.

The guy you re looking for is Mark Chanlynn of Rocky Mountain Rifle works. He makes single point rifle cut barrels (think Obermyer and Krieger), and gurentee's 1/2 MOA on AR's in .223 that he puts together. I"m not sure if he extends the guarentee to other calibers or not, but if you got the money, he's your smith.

Running the 300 Whisper subsonic, supersonic, supressed and unsupressed is gonna take someone who knows SBR's and supressors as well as using a quality barrel.

Not here to take sides by any means just to maybe help clarify. OP is hard headed ( I know this personally) and has been told by a very reputable smith that 1/2moa is the norm out of his SBR builds. OP is just the kind of person that is willing to spend a lot extra to get a little and if 1/2 moa is possible that's what he wants ( the best ) even though it is by far not needed for the application of the intended firearm. He just wants the most out of any firearm be it a Long Range Rifle or a 38 snub nose. I think he worded his original post a little misleading, especially on the wait part. Simply put he wanted advise on a quality barrel and maybe get lucky and find somebody that may know where one is or has had a recent experience with a quick turn around time on a barrel.

good post. your friend(?) wants a lawn tractor but it must have a Chevrolet Performance ZZ427/480 HP motor installed to mow his 1/8th acre front yard! I get a kick out of these accurate 300 BO threads as there has been much debate regards the accuracy of that round. I think Wilson even went as far as to develop a new similar round for which they provide a slower twisted barrel. I mean how many match guns wear suppressors and feature 1-7 twisted barrels?

I have a Lother Walther match grade on my heavy AR and it is a shooter

Having shot quite a bit of 300 Black Out and quite a few SBR's and three gun match rifles trying to get pure accuracy out of it, you will not get .5 MOA put of 300 BO. Not in a 20in match AR and not even close in an SBR with sub-sonics.... Sorry, ain't happening.

What's the best accuracy you've seen with these setups?

My first hunch as well would be to say Noveske, if you can't get a Krieger.

But the first trip down the range with my Daniel Defense 300 M4V5 ran about 3/4" with the Remington 220 gr factory subsonic ammo. I've also got some handloads ready to try, with subsonic 220 SMK's, and I'm real curious as to what they'll do in the DD. In a CMMG, my handloads cut the group size in half, although it was lousy starting out.

Incidentally, I have found two different 300's to run just fine with the 220's loaded to mag length 2.24", as opposed to the recommended 2.080". Give that a whirl

Only 3/4 MOA? What a dog. You should make a club out of the thing. I'll give you $50 for it.

The best repeatable, consistent 10 round groups have been 2+ MOA. Including several Noveske's. Dan Horner and the AMU had to use a 1/12 twisted barrel and 155gr bullets to make accuracy. Not saying they can't be reasonably accurate, but .5 MOA consistent groups is a pipe dream.

Wow.

Just curious, but why do we measure groups with 3 or 5 shots for regular hunting rifles and 10 shots for ARs?

Is it because when society collapses and I'm finally able to bug out the gangs of roving n'er-do-wells will try to steal my peanut butter so I need a barrel capable of holding accuracy as the action heats up to the point that I'm grabbing "field pick up mags" off of my fallen foes? Cuz that's the only reason I've ever been given, and it's pretty absurd for 99% of AR owners.

a 0.5MOA 100 yard 3 shot group with a suppressor out of a 1-7 twisted SBR 300 BO? Not thinking its too common, maybe occasional accident of course Internet targets and blather not withstanding.

I don't. I shoot 5-shot groups during load development at the end of ladders for any gun I intend to shoot past 300m. With anything inside of 300m and/or over .308" bore I shoot 3-shot groups. With ARs I don't load ladders but will just pick middle of the road loads and load to SAAMI (or mag length if shorter) and go shoot some 5-shot groups:


Using Army Sniper rifles I rarely shoot groups. When they are new I do during break-in, zeroing/evaluation, and I shoot groups suppressed and unsuppressed to determine POI shift. Once I have data on the gun I almost always confirm with a round or two at 100m then start field fires or stress shoots. The last time I shot a group with a long gun was two months back when I had a Leupold go tits up so I put a new optic on the gun and shot a group to make sure I was dealing with a bum optic not a gun that needed to go in for re-set. Five shots later the Leupold was determined to be the culprit.

I normally shoot 5 shot groups to see how the gun does and how I do. 10 shot groups further test out both, nothing more.

3 shot groups don't really mean much to me. Yes I've shot em and been proud of the gun but they don't always tell you what the gun will do, 5 is only slightly better.

But the industry standard is a 3 shot guarantee cause its pretty easy to find at least one load to put 3 together with nearly any gun but that does not make it an MOA or less gun. At least to me.

Not that it matters, but, people make absurd accuracy claims based off groups that are not a good measure of true accuracy. In the real world it makes no difference. But, when someone gets on a forum and makes accuracy claims they need to be backed up with a significant amount of data in order for them to be a credible source. Many people are satisfied with one or two 3 shot groups and will say their rifle is X MOA accurate based on them. Just doesn't work that way.

It has much more to do with having successfully completed a Probability and Statistics course...or not. I know that breaks your heart to hear it (but bless your heart anyway).

Ummm, OK.

Mean radius is a better measure of consistency than extreme spread, but you have to do a little work to get it.

If you want to "punish" outliers more, calculate the root mean square radius.

I report accuracy from an accumulation of groups. For hunting rifles its generally 3 shot groups but a passle of them. Day in and day out.

Rarely shoot 5 shots in a hunting situation.

The reason I shoot 10 shot groups in the AR, after the ladder and initial 3-5 shot groups confirm, is thats the main use of the AR to us for years is CMP competition, 10 shot rapid fire groups.

Plus when shooting 10-22 shots for score/group it allows me to better see if my groups have shape to them, or flukes... if you know what I mean. I"ll take a rounded out group almost every time over one that has 5-6 in a knot and 3-4 fliers.

Of course most all my AR testing for competition was done at 300 and 600 yards.

Testing at 600 I shot 5 shot groups to test neck tension, primers etc....

But when I had time at matches I would compare the best 2 ammo combos in 11 shot strings one right after the other and do that a lot before you really know whats best.

And it was a dang good way to learn exactly how disastrous switching powders can be to grouping for a few shots until things settle back in.

Because three shots mean absolutely nothing. Worse than that, 3 shot groups have just as much a chance of leading one to a wrong conclusion as it does a correct one. Even multiple 3 shot groups mean nothing unless they are shot on the exact same target and the aggregate of all shots is tallied. As well I do not believe in "fliers" or make excuses for bad grouping. Since starting to work somewhere that mandates 10 round groups for just about everything.... Strangely- I no longer get "fliers".


If one can not shoot 10 rounds rested without flinching, "pulling" a shot or "throwing" a shot they have no idea what their gun is doing, and strongly need to stop talking about accuracy and learn to shoot.

EVERY rifle I use is grouped for 10 rounds. From M4's to MK13's. 6.5 lb M7's to 18lb match guns. And not just once but repeatedly. I strongly believe in grouping every time I shoot. It checks consistency, reinforces fundamentals, validates your zero, and reveals possible gun/scope issues.

Having tested it numerous times, there is little to no difference between one or two 10 round groups (from even flyweight hunting rifles) and three 5 shot groups or five 3 shot groups when shot one the exact same target. 10 rounds will show exactly what that rifle/ammo/scope combo can be expected to do on any given shot.

For a hunting rifle, a target with ten 1 shot groups from a cold bore would tell me a lot more about what to expect from my rifle than one 10 shot group.

On the other hand, ten 1 shot groups from a match rifle would leave out a lot of information.

Can't argue with that. Neither would the COL.

Because one you start pulling the trigger on an AR, you don't want to stop, and an AR doesn't cost 2 bucks a round like some factory hunting ammo.

Ok for curiosity for anyone running 10 shot groups, do you allow the barrel to cool? I know on the match .243 I shot 10 shots in a rapid manner to confirm nothing was weird because 10-15 shots in a 2-3 minute time frame was somewhat typical for a match and I was running a Heavy plama contour. What does a ten shot group look like for a pencil barreled AR?

There is that.

I do not let the barrel cool. For those that think that ten 1 shot "groups" is more applicable to hunting rifles- having tested it several times, it will result in the same grouping. Unless the gun is jacked up. Then you might get better groups with the shoot once, ten times thing. Of course shooting ten round groups will show you if there is something mechanically wrong with the system, and that's a good thing.



With good ammo 10 round groups prone mag monopoded with good chrome-lined barrels go sub 2 MOA.


This is my current work gun- a Colt Block II M4.

First group of the day shot right handed-





Second group shot left handed-




Left handed group was obvious NPA problems. Been quite a while since I have worked left hand for accuracy. Keep on mind both were shoot prone , no rest.

Now most will say "gee that sucks" "my rifle will do sub-MOA all day long...... As long as I do my part" or other such nonsense. Funny because if I can't guarantee my part than I have no freaking clue what the gun will consistently do, and then I'm just bs'ing everyone including myself. Interestingly I never get to see all those "sub-MOA all day long" guns on the range which is ironic seeing how I spend A LOT of time on ranges and see A LOT of guns shot, both military and public.

I shoot 3 shot groups on my pencil barrel AR cause its chrome lined and not a target gun. It'll do 1.5 or so MOA whether at 100 or at 400 and it generally hits what I aim at. Which brings up the important part, killing what you need to kill in spite of it not being a 1/4 MOA gun.

My mountain rifles though I shoot 5 as well as my Noveske light weight. That's good enough for me.

I'm confused. Are you saying that a hunting rifle will put cold bore shots into a ragged hole or it's "all jacked up"? I couldn't tell from the way I read it.

Quick reply used....meant for Formidilibiousocity.

And I've actually gotten legitimate answers this time. I don't agree with the necessity FOR MOST FOLKS APPLICATION, but I at least got better answers than "zombies".

Not an AR, but has to do with groups.


I could show probably a dozen 3 and 5 round groups in the .2 to .3 inch range from a 308 I have. Thing is, it ain't a .2 inch gun. Not even close. When multiple 3 round groups are over laid onto one another it magically turns into a 1 to 1.2 MOA gun. The irony is that if I just shoot 10 round groups I get the same thing....












No cherry picked groups, covered up bullet holes, or "holes in the target from another gun". I believe that is every 10 round that gun has shot in the last year save two. And both of those were right at 1 MOA as well.




To address something that was mentioned earlier and is always thrown out there- there is no such thing as a "cold bore shift" or "cold bore shot" unless the barrel is crap. There is such a thing as a cold shooter though.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I think maybe I'm not following what you're saying and am trying to understand.

So a barrel is crap unless every shot from a cold bore goes to the same spot and every hot bore shot goes to that same spot?

And how big does that spot have to be before the barrel is "crap"?

And if the barrel has to shoot to the same spot regardless of how hot it is, why stop at 10? Why not 30 round groups?

You seem like a guy who shoots a lot, I'm just trying to follow what you're saying.

Ross Seyfried's standard was always cold bore shot followed by a second fast follow up shot, on a 3in paster, at 200yd, in FEB, then again in APR, then again in JUN...... or "that rifle don't hunt".

So I'll first answer your questions and then post the why.

Yes, a barrel is crap unless every shot goes to the same spot. How could it not be? If you are trying to hit a target, ie deer, rounds that group really close together but not in the center are useless.


As for the size spot it depends. For my big game rifles 1.5 MOA 10 round groups at 100 yards is about the limit. That's my general rule because every normal deer clambering is capable of killing deer out to around 600 yards. For the LR specific guns I want 1 MOA max for 10 rounds. Work M4's with match ammo I replace the barrel when it hits 2 MOA for 10. That's day in and day out.


As to why not thirty rounds? Because I've tested it. A lot. Statistically 10 round groups will show where something like 98% of all rounds fired will land. 20 and 30 round groups just send more ammo through the same hole in the target.



What I'm saying is that what is termed "cold bore shift" or the "cold bore shot" impacting differently than the follow on shots, isn't because the bore is "cold". Neither is "walking" as the barrel gets hot. Now if there is residual stress with the barrel/action/bedding or something else mechanically wrong with the gun, then yes you could see that. But given a properly built barrel and gun, any shift you see from cold bore or "Walking" from firing more than ______ amount of rounds, is from cold shooter (not getting NPA, press, etc) or the natural dispersion of rounds.

Personally I don�t shoot �groups� much , I am way more interested in hits.

The first shot in any group, 10 or 5 or 3, is a freebie. At the first shot all groups are equal. Conversely, for me and how I use a rifle or carbine the first shot is the most important.

One other point to consider is that the more accurate your AR is the fewer number of shots would be required to show the max dispersion, at least at the resolution we are used to when talking normal ARs.

In other words if we had an AR that legitimately put all shots through the same hole then a 1 shot group and a 10 shot group would be the same size, a single bullet hole. If your AR legitimately is a 10 MOA gun then you will need to fire quite a few bullets to fill out the entire dispersion and get repeatable accurate data.

I think 10 shots is a better indication of the shooter than the AR, as putting together a good 10 shot string is way more than twice as hard as a good 5 shot string which is more than twice as difficult as a good 3 shot string.

3 Shots, at point of aim, is a good indication that the gun is shooting, 5 shots, at point of aim, is pretty much a sure thing that the gun is shooting.

As I don�t shoot competitions that require 10 shot groups and my real world uses for the AR have nothing to do with 10 shot groups I rarely practice shooting 10 shot groups. Of more importance to me are 1 to 5 round strings on a specific sized target, measured as hits or misses. For me this is more productive and a better use of time and ammo.

Here is a 3 shot string,@ 100yds, on point of aim, within the adjustments of the sight.



5 shot string (@ 100 yds) on point of aim showing some shooter error.



5 Shot string (@ 100yds) with shooter induced flyers. (and a fly that landed on the target)

John, that's a nice look rig, and some nice looking groups.

Would you mind sharing some details?

Antelope sniper,

That is one of our proto Wyoming Arms guns.

Basics are:
16 inch barrel in 5.56
Billet upper and lower (tan gun)
Geissele MK I tube with a WA titanium barrel nut
Geissele Hi Speed Super Match Trigger

It has middy gas and a rifle buffer so it is stupid reliable and very smooth. It will really show you how well you are shooting.

Sometimes it has the old tried and true VX 3 with my reticule but I have been messing around with the MK 6s and the 3-18 has potential.

Asking about a "most accurate barrel" and then restricting it to a .300 blackout and then saying you shoot "long range" is like saying you want a great 4x4 SUV that you can drag race, but will only drive on the interstate.

.300BO is not exactly the most inherently accurate AR based round there is and should be anyone's last choice if they are even remotely interested in "long range", let alone "accuracy".

Form, can I ask please: Was the lighter 155 gr. bullet & 1/12 barrel combo still shooting subsonic?

Thx,
Bob

with the Shilen your get a bolt that's headspaced to the barrel

9 year old necro topic.

Dumb then, dumb now.

And Form ain't here no mo'.

MM

I'll first thought this was different and then I seen squat to pee has a participant and John Burns is still acting reasonable realized how old it was

Really old thread.

Your whine is duly noted.

I was right then and I am right now.

Nothing has changed but your hormones.

Menopause is a bitch but you are going to have to deal with it.

Still a stupid set-up. Only suitable for shooting off a tripod.

LOL.

Where is the tripod?

Why 7 screws for the mount? Your lucky number for slots?

I explain why in this video.

You could tell us here.

You will learn more by watching.

I always say build a man a fire and he will stay warm for a day.

Light him on fire and he will stay warm for the rest of his life.

"... most accurate barrel ..."

Rather subjective I'd say.

The more you spend on a barrel, the better your chances of getting something accurate.
Money, in and of itself, doesn't make the barrel accurate, but that more care was taken to produce it.
THAT said, the most accurate barrel I possess I found on sale for $58! 😳

Next off, I don't care how much you spend on a barrel, if you mount a crappy scope, accuracy will suffer.

"The best laid plans of mice and men may often go astray."

Missed it. I think you're just a fcking tard. Retarded setup, retarded design.
I see you have that dumb-ass flashlight attached for shooting in broad daylight again. Retarded.

[quote=breadWhy would anybody want a gun that won't reach it's full potential.[/quote]

I like accurate guns too but sometimes accuracy isn't the only/best factor in the equation. For a short/mid-range semi-auto AR, reliability might be the most important function so a "match" chamber might not be your huckleberry......

That's a really profound response (well. not really) to a really stupid & dumb question by the OP of this thread.

MM

Related question: anyone put a Shaw barrel on their AR? I get lots of emails from Shaw pushing their AR barrels. Curious as to the quality.

I put together an upper using a Shaw barrel (350 Legend) and it shoots as well as an MGM barrel (same caliber) I bought for my encore. Very heavy barrel though.

I’ve purchased quite a few barrel blanks over the years, probably over 10,000 from many different companies, Krieger, Lothar Walther, Bauska, Hart, Douglas, Shilan, Lilja, Pac-Nor, X-Caliber, Green Mountain, Wilson Combat, Brux, and I’m sure many others I don’t recall.

My vote goes to Pac-Nor. I’m talking about blanks here, you would still need to have someone good machine it from there.

At one time we made small caliber stuff and the Pac-Nor’s would routinely shoot in the 1’s and 2’s from an AR-15.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

No WOA? Also wondering how many guys here have a Pac Nor AR15 barrel???

WOA doesn't sell blanks...........they machine blanks that they buy from various sources including Wilson Arms (Not Wilson Combat), Bartlein & Shilen.

So he really could not have bought a WOA "blank."

MM

I don't have any barrels that I know came from Shaw, but "Mule Deer" (John Barsness here in the "fire) says they are pretty good, & the guy that owns AR Performance says that they are pretty good as well, & I've also heard that Wilson Combat was making their barrels from Shaw blanks.

WC now claims that they make (as in rifling, not just contouring) their own barrels but I don't know the timeframes involved.................but I do have a fairly recent (late last year) lightweight barrel from WC that shoots very, very well as in <MOA, but I don't know for sure who did the rifling.

I'd be inclined to buy a barrel from Shaw if they have the contour profile that you might want............truthfully, over the years, I've never really heard anybody seriously trashing them, but that's mostly related to bolt guns.

MM

It’s fairly well buried by now but if you wanted to revisit the 10 shot challenge from a while back you’ll see some shaw barreled Stag rifles shot very well.

Mine was one of them and I don’t claim to be able to wring all the accuracy out of an AR

I’m not sure about that - I can get most of them to shoot inside a dime at 100 yards with the right accurizing.

Cert, did all the Stag's have shaw barrels? I bought one based on some of you guys' recommendations on accurate AR's. The heavy barreled Stag I bought was very accurate. It was a Stag 6 I believe. I sold it for a few reasons. Some of which I found out were substantial after using it for a while Like MM used to day, it was like a truck axle (being a heavy 24" tube), my lighter weight Windham weaponry shot just as well, and the Stag was a left hander. All of which I realized I did not need.

Everyone can I guess. According to a lot of posts we used to hear about. I'm glad we don't hear the bs as much as we used to hear. That black rifle challenge, that certifiable mentioned, here kind of toned down that talk a bit.

BSA, yes they were all Shaw, and you are correct on the model 6.
To be honest mine shot so well initially, 6 others in my circle bought the same rifle. None had regrets

Out of those I think only 3 of us participated in the challenge.

You are dead right about the weight they are pigs but that didn’t bother me as my only plan for it was bench shooting

Yup. I'll bite. How accurate

I posted pictures of the groups… and was trained by one of the best smiths…

But hey what do i know that you don’t…

explained as clear as I've seen.....

Why don't you share it then, Jeff? I'm not giving MIC'Gutshot views.

Well for starters, where are the dime sized pics from your 8" SBR's?

That was my version of smartazz. He never said a thing. Just shot. Nothing about the mount or screws.

I"d THINK more screws should be better BUT...

Thanks for sharing that bit. I never felt that the pac nor barrels I'd had done by White Oak shot quite as well as Kriegers and Shilens. And the couple of bolt guns with Rock tubes.

That said, the pac nor tubes were never close to bad barrels either. They certainly allowed me to set a few records on some ranges here and there along the way.

You argue like my Ex

Yes hombre .. you can make a AR cloverleaf if you really know how to accurize it and buy a decent barrel

Below - Regular AR.. lapped barrel, bolt lugs, bedded barrel extension, good trigger, … and a couple other things =
BTW - This rifle is already sold.. I built 4 that shot this way…
First shot is a fouling shot (which is crazy because the barrel isn’t broken in beyond me cleaning it up so it will shoot better with time)

Well pilgram around here we don't consider 3 shots a group but whatever...
This is a group

I just found this barrel holding up a tomato plant.

LOL.. yep - I’m thinking are my Ex Wife…

Asks for a picture - gets it and complains - this is a waste or my time…

For the OP - all barrel makers put out good barrels - the question is how many of what they put out are shooters ?
Smiths that know how to lap can adjust a barrel, but it is better to start with a good one..

Personally I like Krieger -

I do precision chambering and tried to get the high end guys to send me a blank so I could chamber it - but they won’t do that…
This add’s - well who’s chambering that thing for the barrel maker into question …. A good deal of them had Lake city do it because they are good.

The problem is scale & economics basically push people to bring it back in house.. most of them are doing it CNC … kind of a no brainer.

Curious as to how breaking in a barrel will make it more accurate.

Bullzhit.

X2.

MM

Show me a Krieger or WhiteOak AR barrel you can buy that isn’t chambered - I asked them to get me one… they won’t.

If I missed one that does let me know…

WOA does sell only finished barrels.
But Krieger & many others will sell you a rifled cylindrical blank that you must do all the finishing on including clambering & installing the barrel extension.

Should be no problem for one of your skill.

Or buy a finished barrel from CLE with one of their 4 different chamber options.......Frank White & his team really do know a thing or 2 about barrels & chambering them right. He has blanks from Bartlien, Krieger, Douglas & Criterion.

MM

I thought it was 5 shots.

He further discredits his self by claiming one was a fouler shot...

Who knows or cares for that matter.

You know Frank is kind of retired now, he did not go to Perry this year. However, he did teach his son well.

Bartlein 1-7 from CLE with a Wylde Chamber.

The photo is from my last match for this year. After we shoot our 50 round match we hold a fun match at 300 yards. Five sighters, walk and paste, 15 for record. Can be shot with one box of ammo, we do it to encourage new shooters to join us. I shot this prone with a sling with a fair amount of wind. 1.17 moa at 300, not too bad for a service rifle with a 4.5 power scope.

I thought of turning one down from a large blank but it’s not worth my time.. I wanted one with the .750 gas ring step already cut.. but given three are 3-4 different lengths that becomes problematic.

AR folks tend to fall into “look at the brand name” before they try looking at trying to get it down to a 1/4 or less MOA.
Not to mention all the kitchen table gunsmiths who will give you a bunch of BS…

I’ll wait for TWR to show a few compeitions he won.. looks he’s too busy chasing nuts on the internet right now.

Thanks - I’ll check out CLE I hadn’t look at them.

Wilson (on the east coast) barrel maker said they’d do it if I order 30 or more.. they supply WOA.
I just wanted a blank contoured for a AR that I could do the chamber, extension threading & drill the gas hole….
I did check with Proof research as well - but they won’t do it either
- I won a proof barrel at one of the shoots last year - I picked a 6 creed AR-10, but would have rather chambered it myself.

I think most of them don’t want the liability of having someone else screw up a barrel extension with there head-stamp on the barrel - i get it.

Dang dude! I want to know the load too!

Good shooting Mike!

I haven’t shot high power for years - I don’t know when Compass Lake started selling direct.. maybe they always did and I just didn’t know.

Everyone is using CNC to make AR barrels … so it’s a deep step in and they are off…

LC 2006 Brass
7 1/2 Primers
24.7 Grains of Varget
80.5 Berger .012 off lands

It is pretty stout, as a disclaimer do not try this one at home without working up to it first. (I know you know that, Tyrone).

So a couple of weeks earlier, I shot the EIC (Leg) match the day after the Texas State Championship. Shot a 98 offhand, 99 sitting, 99 at 300 and went back to 600 in the lead, but shot a 192-11X and finished fourth. The 11xs told me my load was good, but shooting three 8's in the corner told me something is wrong with position. Ended up with a 488 which is a good score, but I should have been in the 490's.

So fast forward to the next match. It was a 200 yard reduced course and I shot it on my electronic target. Shot crappy offhand, cleaned sitting, then a 99 on rapid prone (called the nine). First shot on the 600 reduced was a 10, then an X, then I shot a pair of nines that were both almost eights. I realized what I was doing wrong. My head position/cheek weld was not consistent. Paid attention to that and cleaned the last 16 shots with 11 X's. After that is when I shot the 15 shot match with the target I posted, so I ended up shooting 31 shots in a row clean with 22Xs. The little things matter.

One reason I posted this (other than to brag a little) is that for 99.9% of shooters it is a waste of time trying to get a rifle to shoot a 3 or maybe 5 shot group in under a 1/4 MOA instead of 1/2 or even 3/4 MOA. The point is most gains can be made with the shooter especially in real world situations. BSA1917 shoots some fantastic groups off rests. He must have great technique because quite honestly I cannot do that. Most shooters could take his rifle/ammo and would double the group size. If we would learn how to really shoot, whether it is from a sling, rest, tree, sticks, whatever they would be far better served than chasing that 3 shot 1/4 MOA group or "most" accurate barrel, or "properly match grade" head spacing of the bolt on an AR.



A small change in cheek weld shrunk the group on the last 16 shots.

manufacturers may CNC produce barrels. But our smith sets up and chambers them and is anal to half a ten thousandth. Butch you taught him well.

How can break in make a barrel shoot better? Dunno. but I've done it and not, and when done barrels foul less and are easier to clean every time. Not enough to matter I supposed but break in does't take more than a few more minutes time basically.

I do know that after the first 100 shots our AR barrels tended to be settled into whatever they were going to be. But in the first 100 you sometimes wondered a bit...

Roost - I’m that way too -

I use a 1/10,000ths indicator .. and I don’t like seeing movement … depending on the light and a guys eyes you can get it WAY down under that…

Now only problem is - when I get it to not move at all I think it’s not touching the material.. LOL

For those that actually chamber - if you are using the Gritters method - the needle has to raise over the lands so there is no dead needle….
I.E. - subtle joke.

You can have the best made barrel in the world and it won't shoot worth a crap with otc ammo.
Accuracy has a lot to do with your loads, how you shoot
Etc.