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My first centerfire firearms purchase in my life (at 16) was a Deluxe Grade Model 70 in .300 Winchester Magnum.
That was a LONG time ago.
Then, IMHO - the brand went all to hell.
Now, I read they are making them again, and promise that the machining tolerances, accuracy and general build quality will be as good, or better, than anything we've ever seen.
Is this true?
Anyone care to comment?
I've still got a soft-spot in my heart for that old rifle. I probably should never have traded it.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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I cannot like the new trigger one tiny bit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Why?
What has been your experience?
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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None, I just think the old one was perfection for hunting. I also don't like some foreign corporation screwing around with the design of an american icon hunting rifle.
There was no need to mess with the trigger.
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Are any of the new, 2008 FN Winchester M70s out and available yet?
Like many, I'm anxious to see if the promise of a new and better Winchester M70 will be kept. Hope so.
"Don't let the things you can't do, stop you from doing the things you can do."
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Campfire Tracker
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BCB; When did you buy your M70 300 WM? I don't recall a Deluxe grade. There have been Super Grades, and XTR's, but I don't recall Deluxe Grades. Just curious, thanks.
Timber: don't believe they have hit the shelves, yet.
Last edited by southtexas; 06/11/08.
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It would have been about 1972. I ordered and paid for a "regular" grade rifle from a big-box type store. I was given the box - paid for it - and went home. When I opened the box I saw my rifle had a much better grade of walnut, and it had the black for-end cap with the white line spacers - same on the grip cap and recoil pad. I felt a little guilty... But not THAT guilty. 
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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I managed to snag along the way pre-64s in 30-06, 300 H&H, and 375 H&H, so I don't much care what they did to the new ones.  I sure didn't like what I got in the three Safari Classics I tried, as feeding problems were terrible. The two SS/SYN 375 H&H versions I had were real decent rifles, however. They must have been from vastly different runs than the blue/walnut guns. With the new Ruger 416 on the way, I can't justify paying the price for a 416 Rem chambered WinchestLieger to a Belgian company, instead of a lesser price to an American company with a good product...the Ruger Hawkeye African.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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I doubt the new Model 70s will have much, if any, problems with QC. At least for the first couple of years.....
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BCB; When did you buy your M70 300 WM? I don't recall a Deluxe grade. There have been Super Grades, and XTR's, but I don't recall Deluxe Grades. Just curious, thanks.
Timber: don't believe they have hit the shelves, yet. The first Model 70 Deluxe came out in 1966, in response to all the hullabaloo concerning bad quality in the post-64 rifles. The early Deluxe had much nicer wood, genuine ebony for-end tips, and a nicer design of impressed checkering than did the standard version of the post-64 M70. In 1969 the pressed checkering was dropped and hand cut checkering returned on the M70 Deluxe. In 1972 the Deluxe name was dropped and the Super Grade name returned (same rifle as the 1969-1971 M70 Deluxe). Simultaneously the second pattern pressed checkering was dropped from the standard M70's and they also received cut checkering (but with grade of walnut and checkering not as fine as on the new Super Grade). In 1974 the Super Grade was dropped from the line as it and the standard grade merged into the same rifle. The only Super Grade made from 1964-1981 with no major changes in design or nomenclature was the Model 70 African (.458 WIN MAG only). Odessa
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.
Archibald Rutledge
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I think that you need to realize that with modern computer-aided machining you can get better tolerances more consistently over a production run. Witness how Kimber 1911s etc. got kudos for great tolerances at Colt-beating prices - it can be done. FN runs a fairly tight ship because of their military M16 contracts so there is a good probability that the Winchesters will equal anything in the price class.
I certainly have had excellent accuracy and no quality control problems with my late-70's and 80's push-feeds and also with my newer controlled-feed Classic Model 70 270 WSM and look forward to more of the same with the "FN" Model 70s.
As far as "I... don't like some foreign corporation screwing around with the design of an american icon hunting rifle." goes - Winchester started screwing around with the Model 54 to come up the the Model 70, then they made some minor changes here and there over the years until a MAJOR "screwing around with the design of an American icon" in 1964. After that they did more tweaking and screwing around until they had both a short action and a new version of the controlled feed (Classic). FN has owned Winchester for quite some time now and has pumped money into the brand for years as foreigners supporting an "American icon" until something had to be done to staunch the bleeding. Now they have stepped up to the plate once again to give it another shot in a way they hope will make some modicum of profit.
So one has to ask oneself: Is is better to have killed the Model 70 forever - or to try to keep it afloat for future generations of shooters, albeit at the cost of some minor changes to the icon by foreigners?
"We deal in lead - friend"
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"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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I think that you need to realize that with modern computer-aided machining you can get better tolerances more consistently over a production run. Witness how Kimber 1911s etc. got kudos for great tolerances at Colt-beating prices - it can be done. FN runs a fairly tight ship because of their military M16 contracts so there is a good probability that the Winchesters will equal anything in the price class.
I certainly have had excellent accuracy and no quality control problems with my late-70's and 80's push-feeds and also with my newer controlled-feed Classic Model 70 270 WSM and look forward to more of the same with the "FN" Model 70s.
As far as "I... don't like some foreign corporation screwing around with the design of an american icon hunting rifle." goes - Winchester started screwing around with the Model 54 to come up the the Model 70, then they made some minor changes here and there over the years until a MAJOR "screwing around with the design of an American icon" in 1964. After that they did more tweaking and screwing around until they had both a short action and a new version of the controlled feed (Classic). FN has owned Winchester for quite some time now and has pumped money into the brand for years as foreigners supporting an "American icon" until something had to be done to staunch the bleeding. Now they have stepped up to the plate once again to give it another shot in a way they hope will make some modicum of profit.
So one has to ask oneself: Is is better to have killed the Model 70 forever - or to try to keep it afloat for future generations of shooters, albeit at the cost of some minor changes to the icon by foreigners? Sorry if you take issue with foreign comments, you sure seem upset. Redesigns rarely involve improvement, but rather cost cutting. That ain't exactly pumping cash into the rifle. There was no reason to touch the trigger, and yes I do have a problem with it. If you are so passionate about foreign rifles, plenty of them to be had, go buy a Sako or something. There are those of us who love the model 70, I couldn't expect you to understand. Stating redesigns to the model 54, has no baring on this issue, and why you brought it up I don't even know. The post 64 design was purely a cost cutting issue. Had current cnc machinery been available then, this likely would have never taken place. Bottom line, why mess with likely the best hunting rifle trigger of all time? Answer: because they are a foreign bean counting corporation who doesn't give a schit about the rifles world famous heritage and they figure americans are to stupid to care or even notice, as long as it says model 70 on the side.
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ULA: Wouldn't it make sense to wait to see, and test the new design before you make up your mind??
Foreign or domestic design, it COULD be an improvement. How can we KNOW without even looking at it?
I've been a model 70 slut since my dad bought his 270 in 1952 and bought my mom a brand new featherweight 243 in '55. I've owned many M70's since, and hardly anything else. And the triggers could be adjusted to perform well. But many were not so hot as they came from the factory. Maybe, just maybe, the new design can be economically mass produced to provide a good trigger without taking it to a gunsmith? We won't know 'til we see it,will we?
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ULA24
Winchester (USRAC) didn't give a "schit" about the product they were putting out. The last two "classics" I bought had lousy triggers that had to be replaced with Timneys. Those bean counters now have modern CNC machinery that can hold amazing tolerances over and over again. Is this a substitute for hand fitting? No, but for machine made it is great. Can you afford a D'Arcy Echols modified Model 70 Winchester? He does like a 7 point tune up on just the safety. Who cares about these exquisitely made rifles that hardly anybody can own? I certainly welcome a newer version of my favorite "icon" which I can afford. PS I already own 5. My first was a 1965 model 70, yes with the push feed, glossy stock and terrible pressed checkering. It shot very well. I still own it, love those Winchesters.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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southtexas
I just read your response to ULA24. I agree many of the people writing here can't seem to let go of the past and look to the future.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Well I apologize if I am jumping the gun, but like I said, eveything they have done over the years to the original design were mostly cost cutting proceedures.
It would be very hard to improve on the trigger system. I think Matt Williams would have come right out and said so, if it was any improvement.
Yes, I will wait and see the new trigger. We all will, we have no choice.
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ULA24
Winchester (USRAC) didn't give a "schit" about the product they were putting out. The last two "classics" I bought had lousy triggers that had to be replaced with Timneys. Those bean counters now have modern CNC machinery that can hold amazing tolerances over and over again. Is this a substitute for hand fitting? No, but for machine made it is great. Can you afford a D'Arcy Echols modified Model 70 Winchester? He does like a 7 point tune up on just the safety. Who cares about these exquisitely made rifles that hardly anybody can own? I certainly welcome a newer version of my favorite "icon" which I can afford. PS I already own 5. My first was a 1965 model 70, yes with the push feed, glossy stock and terrible pressed checkering. It shot very well. I still own it, love those Winchesters. There is never any reason to install a timney in model 70 for hunting use, and I like timney's and use quite a few of them on other rifles. I take it you couldn't find a good model 70 smith? Depends on what you want a model 70 for, but slapping on a timney makes no sense to me. Might as well just slap on a remmy 700 action to the model 70 barrel while you are it.
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Did you happen to read the link to Matt's (Williams Firearms) post on the new 70? Aside from the trigger redesign, it sounds like FN is going to great lengths to make this better than the previous 70's that came out of New Haven. Time will tell, but I didn't get the impression that this was being slapped together by bean counters.
Roy
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