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The folks from Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas believe that military deaths are God's revenge for the country's tolerance of homosexuality, particularly for allowing gay people to serve in the military.

They seem to believe very strongly that the Bible tells them God hates homosexuals and is punishing the US for tolerating homosexuality by killing the men and women serving in our military.

Apparently the Bible's teachings compel them to picket the funerals of our service men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country (some of whom they assume are gay and "deserve" to die). The Bible apparently compels them to do these things so the rest of us will "see the light" they have seen in "God's teachings".

Many here are Bible scholars. Can anyone here tell me where the Westboro Baptist Church believers find support for their beliefs/actions in the Bible? If they aren't "right" can you tell me what passages in the Bible demonstrate they are "wrong"?

If they are wrong can some of you Biblical scholars travel to Kansas and show them so they'll stop this sh*t that the Supreme Court ruled is protected speech?

Supreme Court rules First Amendment protects church's right to picket funerals
By Robert Barnes
Wednesday, March 2, 2011; 10:59 AM

A nearly unanimous Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the First Amendment protects even hurtful speech about public issues and upheld the right of a fringe church to protest near military funerals.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote that the Topeka, Kan.-based Westboro Baptist Church's picketing "is certainly hurtful and its contribution to public discourse may be negligible." But he said government "cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker."

"As a nation we have chosen a different course-to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate," Roberts said.

Justice Samuel A. Alito was the lone dissenter.

"Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case," Alito wrote.

The case concerned Westboro's picketing at the funeral of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, 20, who was killed in Iraq. The church - which is made up almost entirely of the family members of its founder, the Rev. Fred W. Phelps - picketed the 2006 funeral in Westminster, Md., carrying signs such as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," "God Hates [bleep]" and "America is Doomed."

The church contends military deaths are God's revenge for the country's tolerance of homosexuality. Matthew's father, Albert Snyder, sued.

Snyder argued at trial that the Phelpses had invaded his privacy, caused emotional distress, and violated his rights to free exercise of religion and peaceful assembly.

A Baltimore jury awarded Snyder more than $10 million, which was cut in half by the judge and then overturned by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit in Richmond. A three-judge panel said that although the rhetoric used was offensive, it was protected as speech concerning issues in the national debate.

I would like to see 10 of these [bleep] killed everytime one soldier dies.

Then I would love to see about 1000 soldiers protesting the funerals of Westboro church members.

See how these folks like a taste of their own medicine.

That's pretty funny.

A wacko is a wacko, pure and simple.

I've never been taught such things. I'm no scholar of the Bible but this may be a religion adding bible enteries to support their agenda. A-holes.

I think where Alito's dissent is coming from is this: speech can be curbed by the State when necessary to protect those in the immediate vicinity from danger. The classic example we all learned in law school is that yelling "Fire!" in a moviehouse is not protected speech because it could cause a stampede where people could be hurt. Essentially, Westboro is using fighting words which can certainly, under the right circumstances, such as where they would cause violence to occur, be curbed. At least that is my take on Alito's dissent which I agree with. I am flumoxed to say the least as to why local municipalities do not choose to exercise their 10th Amendment police powers (the approopriate power in this case) to shut them down or at least remove them far enough away from the situation so as to render them much less caustic.

Unfortunately your post supposes that these people can be reasoned with. They can't.

History is full of instances where some group grabs onto some peice of biblical truth (such as the fact that homosexuality is sin, and like all sin deserves God's just condemnation) taking it to an unbiblical extreme.

The fact of the matter is that ALL sin is worthy of condemnation. Their lack of compassion was condemned by Christ when Pharisees were about to stone a woman guilty of adultery... "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

All death is a judgment from God against all sin. These people practice a type of hypocrisy that demonstrates that even those within the visible Church are prone to show their depravity just as readily as those outside. They ought to be ashamed but it seems as though such introspection is beyond them.

I have NO IDEA where they come up with the justification for what they do, but I can CERTAINLY tell you where they go wrong.

Jesus, the Son of God...When he was here on earth he gave out ONE and only ONE commandment:

John 13:34-35:
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. And they shall know you are my followers, because of your love.

Do you see anything about what Westboro is doing that conveys love?

I look at John 13:34-35 as God's divine "BS Detector", and mine is pegged when I look at what Westboro does.

Might also want to consider the admonishment and dangers thereof of adding a single word to or taking a single word from what is prescribed. At that point it becomes uses for our/their will not His Will.

Well, they LOVE to piss off "normal" people.

I find it also ironic that 2 of Fred Phelps (the founding father of their "church") has fathered children from his own daughters. So not only is he "anti-gay"/"anti-America". He's pro-incest/mollestation. That's just F'd up.

That was a good post.

�Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar�s, and unto God the things that are God�s�

Because the First Amendment of the Constitution protects our right to speak, and is part of our secular law, such speech is a manifestation of a thing belonging to Man (Caesar). This same First Amendment also protects the individual right to speak of Holy things, such as Scripture and our relationships with God. It applies to all religions, including atheism. To ban any free speech, on either side of the issue, would defeat God's desideratum governing free will.

Such a ban based on the police power of the state would also constitute an establishment of religion. For example, in one National Forest Native Americans are proposing restricting the year round small and non-game hunting season so they can conduct religious ceremonies free from the sound of occasional gun fire. To promulgate a law denying a legitimate recreational activity on public land for the purpose of supporting a specific religion would violate the First Amendment restriction against governmental establishment of religion. Same with the free exercise of religious speech, as in the case of the Westboro Baptist Church, such offensive speech may violate various sectarian religious beliefs, and common decency, but it can not be interfered with using the power of the state.

As for God, He seems to prefer that each of us decide for ourselves on matters of faith. Anyone forced by the power of the state, through theocratic or secular rule, to obey a certain religious practice, is not redeemed in God's eyes. That is why God does not merely raise His hand and instantly illuminate everyone as to His existence and purpose. It is for us to decide to believe and follow. God would abhor beating our neighbor into submission to any religion, such would condemn both to His displeasure.

God also has designed conflict into every physical, moral and spiritual question, through the agency of opposing beliefs struggling with one another. Consider this: God is the Creator of the universe, He is fully capable of enforcing His law whenever He chooses. If homosexuality, and all the mortal sins are against His law, offending His dignity, He has deliberately deferred passing judgment. Therefore, these things serve His purpose with Mankind, which brings us back to the experience, the debate, and the resolution in each individual heart. Thus, we render to God that which is God's. Meaning we voluntarily give to him our heart, allegiance and faith, in acknowledgment of our dependence and obligation to Him.

These questions will never be resolved in this world. It is up to each of us to practice according to our choices, hoping that what we do is pleasing to Him and purifying for us.

Were you like these people or not the Constitution was upheld today

You, sir, are the type of Christian (and person) for whom I have the highest possible respect! You seem to have found the essence of Christianity and live by it.

If ALL professed Christians focused on that one simple phrase the numerous doctrines that have developed from the various interpretations of the gospels would not be leading folks like those from the Westboro Baptist Church to preach and act out of hatred.

+1

You can equate Westboro to the pharisees.....

I will not discuss my opinion of the Westboro Baptist Church, other than I find their acts distasteful. Their actions are distasteful, but we should refrain from hatred toward them, for God finds hatred towards another the moral equivalent of murder. Indeed, the Constitution was upheld, and that works wonders on all sides of the issue.

The Bible doesn't say God hates homosexuals. He hates the ACT of homosexuality. He loves all men and died so that they can get to heaven. However, He requires that they repent of their sins to be saved and the homosexuals have not done so. Instead, they demand that God accept their sin and it just ain't gonna happen.

The Westboro bunch is flat out wrong in their "Christian" theology.

AMEN!!!

Mike

Not all the Pharisees were hypocrites, Keith. The worst of them justified their own immorality using the Law, but that can happen anywhere.

These Westboro pukes may have been given a constitutional okay from the Supremes, but they will answer to a higher court before this all plays out. There are those who are smugly confident in their salvation, but who work iniquity.

On the last day the last thing they want to hear will be, "Depart from me, you who work iniquity; I never knew you."

This is why St. Paul urges us to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". Get too high on one's self-righteous hobbyhorse and one might be spending a loooooong time in the Hot Place.

The intended irony in my post was apparently not sufficiently obvious. I do not for one second believe the Westboro Baptist Church folk are capable of reason.

I place them in the same category as religious zealots from all religions. They are, to me, no less loathesome than the Taliban. The leaders twist religion in a way that gives them secular advantages and power over their followers.

But, I'm sure the religious leaders at Westboro "believe" what they preach just as much as the Taliban "believe" what they preach or that Hitler believed what he preached.

Some humans have infinite capacity for rationalization and self-delusion. Many, like those mentioned as examples, convince themselves to "believe" anything that they, in their twisted way, find advantageous to themselves.

We agree entirely on what history teaches us about extremist uses of religious "truths".