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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
USA today headline - "Supreme Court rules in favor of church that pickets funerals" see: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...rst-amendment_N.htm?loc=interstitialskipThis decision is hard to understand. I am all in favor for free speech, but picketing military funerals over the gay issue is too much. A dead service member is not at fault for social policy that some wacko does not accept. I certainly oppose Chief Justice Roberts opinion.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 317
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 317 |
Perhaps a revisit to the Bill of Rights might be in order:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Funny how some who love the Second Amendment would be willing to toss #1 down the crapper.
The founders knew all to well that government's ability to silence dissention was to be among the most feared powers and had to checked.
"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."
I don't want to live in that vision of "Amerika"
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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it shouldnt be illegal to show them how much you disagree with them then.
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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free speech is just that regardless of how repulsive its message is.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,800
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,800 |
it shouldnt be illegal to show them how much you disagree with them then.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/jimmyd223/th_P1000031.jpg) "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
Perhaps a revisit to the Bill of Rights might be in order:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Funny how some who love the Second Amendment would be willing to toss #1 down the crapper.
The founders knew all to well that government's ability to silence dissention was to be among the most feared powers and had to checked.
"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."
I don't want to live in that vision of "Amerika" Fair enough. I assume you now support the public flying of the Nazi flag, giving Heil Hitler salutes and promoting hate speech, all in the name of free speech? Shouldn't there be limits on hate speech that inflames situations? Certainly, a dead service member's funeral is not a public forum for protesting social policy.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
free speech is just that regardless of how repulsive its message is. And, why can't I yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theatre in the name of free speech? From the above responses, personal danger is a possibility.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
I'd rather hedge on the side of a Constitutionally protected and guaranteed right being upheld even when I don't agree with how it's used, than go the other way.
Feel free to substitute your favorite right for a test drive and see what you think.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
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Perhaps a revisit to the Bill of Rights might be in order:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Funny how some who love the Second Amendment would be willing to toss #1 down the crapper. Absolutely right! So when I say that when somebody who sells guns on GB without having them on hand or being able to ship them for months after the auction ends is a total doofus that no sane person would buy from, I'm just exercising my free speech. Not sure why you sent me that nasty PM about it.. Guess practicing what you preach is tough, eh?
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Perhaps a revisit to the Bill of Rights might be in order:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Funny how some who love the Second Amendment would be willing to toss #1 down the crapper.
The founders knew all to well that government's ability to silence dissention was to be among the most feared powers and had to checked.
"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."
I don't want to live in that vision of "Amerika" Larry; How many times do you have to be banned to actually STAY gone?
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,431
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
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[bleep] Fred Felps and his fambly make me sick. I feel sorry as heck for the kids. They are going to be absolute wrecks as adults.
That all said, the First says what it says.
I think what will happen is someday, someone is going to beat the living daylights out of a Phelps Phreak and no jury will convict. Or they'll plead guilty to misdemeanor assault and be fined five cents.
Up hills slow,
Down hills fast
Tonnage first and
Safety last.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
I'd rather hedge on the side of a Constitutionally protected and guaranteed right being upheld even when I don't agree with how it's used, than go the other way.
Feel free to substitute your favorite right for a test drive and see what you think. I support free speech, but recognize limits on all rights. My rights end when I hurt or threaten someone else�s rights. I don't want to limit their free-speech rights; they have the right to say what they want. I do, however, believe that disrupting the funeral service of anyone (especially a fallen soldier) is beyond the pale of rights. Suppose someone�s screams and carries signs in front of a synagogue (with Holocaust survivors as members) and the sign reads - "Hitler did not finish the job" or something equally offensive. Should they be stopped legally or would the synagogue members respect free speech rights? We all support the Second Amendment, but I think (or most of us) don't want armed insane folks to walk into a school just because they are exercising their Second Amendment Rights.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
[bleep] Fred Felps and his fambly make me sick. I feel sorry as heck for the kids. They are going to be absolute wrecks as adults.
That all said, the First says what it says.
I think what will happen is someday, someone is going to beat the living daylights out of a Phelps Phreak and no jury will convict. Or they'll plead guilty to misdemeanor assault and be fined five cents. "someone is going to beat the living daylights out of a Phelps Phreak and no jury will convict" Or, a jury might convict the father of a fallen soldier for assault and battery (or worse) and he'll go to jail. But then the first Amendment protects free speech, not assault and battery.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
if you read the opinion, they did not trespass. if they had they were going to be arrested. I can't believe how quick you are to be willing to let the state shut these people up because their speech is offensive.
why do I suspect that if they claimed to be Muslims instead of Christians you'd be a lot quicker to jump to their defense when they insult American soldiers?
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
Does this mean that the KKK and the Aryan Nation can likewise disrupt and dishonor the funerals of blacks with equal impunity and protection?
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
as ive said before im for their ability to say it but im a believer that with rights come responsibilities and if i get called for jury duty the [bleep] if im gonna rule in favor of these idiots if some grieving family member puts their teeth down their throats.....protesting a funeral like this is playing with a rattlesnake, emotions are running high, dont come beotching to me if yah play with it and get bit....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
Does this mean that the KKK and the Aryan Nation can likewise disrupt and dishonor the funerals of blacks with equal impunity and protection? yes, if their behavior fits within the parameters of what these douchebags did.....this was a civil lawsuit. Might be some shot under some hate crime statute if the victim was of a protected group, but probably not. If it's protected conduct, it's protected conduct.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
Of course they have the right to spew their vocal feces in their homes and in their church.
Since when does their right to spew include (a) the right to be heard or (b) the right to smear such smelly sh�t so liberally onto others, anywhere that they choose?
(I reckon the word liberally holds the answer.)
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
permissible geographic limitations on free speech are very narrow.....disgusting as these people are, the principle is worth protecting.
because your favored group may become disfavored by the authorities next time.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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