Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting EAT MY WORDS

I am not a fan of mechanicals. I usually keep a couple of boxs of fixed heads in our lodge, as to my dad will not let any clients hunt with mechanicals. So if you show up in our camp with mechanicals, you will change, or not hunt. We have had nothing but bad luck with any mechanical, until this year. I had 2 hunters show up shooting the new Rage. I have read alot about this head, and everything seemed to be on the good side. When I seen that these 2 were shooting Rage head, I talked to my dad, and told him not to say anything, and to let them hunt. Well, last night made a believer out of me. Called a bull into 15 yds from a hunter, the bull was moving and coming to me, I was behind him about 50 yds, when the bull came past the hunter, he failed to stop, and the arrow hit him a little far back, and was clearly a dead on liver shot. I swear, this bull didnt go 80 yards, and was dead as dead can be after 20 minutes of waiting. The entry and exit holes were huge, looked like you had poked a pair of open scissors through this bull, and when we opened him up, his liver was literally in 2 halves. I was truly amazing what this broadhead did to this elk. Im not a believer yet, I still dig fixed head, and have just recently started hunting with the slick tricks, and I am sold after one bull. But, if I see a few more big holes, and in half liver and lungs, I just might have to give the new Rage a go.

Toby Joe

One animal is not a test. Had super results with expandables the first 3-4 deer we shot, wife used them for a bit. My experiences were as follows, good 8 point, angling away,Zwickey would have done it, arrow slapped and shaved his hide, never penetrated, well marked for others to see though.... then gray fox, called in to base of stand, almost cut in half, very nice. Then mature doe, ducked at the shot, hit spine, broadhead did not open. DRT though. Last buck, cull 6, no brow tines, shot double lung about 3 inches over the main heart artery, never opened, found the broadhead half of the arrow, intact, blades still closed, full of hair etc... at a fence jump.... took from 10amish till just at dark to find the buck by grid search.

Doesn't say that all will work that way, but my wifes early successes were great, including a liver/gut shot where I think the extra cutting size helped bleed him better.

But you'll never ever convince me again, especially after a larger animal. And especially since there are other really good heads out there, such that I don't personally see the real need for it.

Keep us updated though.... I keep reading about the rage, just that I won't trust that till I"ve read about it for 5 plus years....

Hope the season is continuing to go well!

Jeff

When they work, they work great, when they don't, they don't. I find the Rage to be a very fragile head (I am very good friends with the guy that makes them, he makes my heads too). Oh, and they fly like crap. No less than 8 parts that move on a head spells inacurracy and eratic flight past 30 yards.

I have seen some amazing kills on animals hit with mechanicals that shouldn't have died, but died quick (poor hits, gut shots etc.). I have also seen mechanicals fail more times than not. Penetration is completely haulted on anything other than a rib or soft tissue. I have tracked too many animals hit with mechanicals that failed. I don't care what kind they are, they won't always work like a good old fixed blade. With the new broadhead designs that are out, 4 blade heads fly true now with wider cuts and there is no need for a mechanical.

My 4 blade 1 1/4" titanium head killed two elk thus far. One was poorly hit in front of the pelvice and high. It died after 200 yards. The one i shot dropped at the shot (5x6 bull). I smacked him right in the back bone. Pretty darn impressive! Flinch

Tobyjoe,
Saw your elk bowkill ppicture.Very nice and should be great meat ..and good your Dad was along too.

I recall when the mechanicals came out years ago, and for that matter, recall most of the broadheads used from the late 30's 40's.
FWIW, as a heavy longbow-recurve shooter, I just never was very impressed with anything but a stout, sharp3:1 two blad broadhead..usually 160 grain mounted on an arrow weighing 730-750 grains travling at 190 FPS ..
I'm sorta old fashioned tho..:)
Have killed alot or big bulls, deer, javelina, bear and lion and not lost a hit critter to this day.

Years ago we mounted about 15 different broadheads on arrow shafting and mounted them in an arbor press with a PSI gauge.
Lowered them to contact 5" squares of saddle leather in wood frames to see just how mush energy was expended cutting thru the leather.
The better cut on impact 2 blade heads passed thru the leather at about 2#s of pressure..many of the rest took upwards of 8#s of pressure before they passed thru the leather and began to cut anything.

Still see alot of pencil point b heads with razors etc..but the 2 blade quality steel head on a properly balance arrow and tuned to the bow is hard to beat..Mechanicals are fraught with problems potentially..
A well shot 2 blade will kill or pass thru an elk quite often..
A poorly hit animal where one relies on ripping alot of internals wouldn't be my choice..:)
Some years back, Dr Ed Ashby did quite a workup on the various broadheads of the day in Africa..His writings are probably still out there..Jim

Spine shots always pissed me off with a bow, I knew I'd screwed up and came really close to not having an animal at all... BUT if the STs hold up to an elk spine, they are tough!

Jeff

His writings probably confirmed that a well tuned Zwickey 2 blade is as good as any of the others, though I still love my 3 blade snuffer holes and penetration, but they do whistle too much to my ear in flight, such that they are a short range BH for me.

Jeff

Rage just had a recall on a bunch of their expandables. Waiting a bit more is prolly a good idea. The idea sure does look solid though...

Im with everyone of you, with all expandibles suck. I have yet to this day, screwed one on the end of one of my arrows. Well, I lie, I killed a javalina with a rocket expandible. This was just my first experience, or to ever see this new head in action. Like I said before, IM NOT A BELIEVER, but I was impressed this first time around. I get to see usually about 30 different broadheads a year in action from different clients, and I am yet to see a better broadhead then a 3 or 4 blade fixed head. Hell, I even had a guy kill a huge 6x6 a couple of years ago, with the $10 for a dozen, el cheapo Walmart fixed heads. I heard of a guy in Utah, a really good friend of mine, that was making a bad azz head, but my test heads never showed up. Still waiting .

More parts = more problems. I quite using them about 12 years ago. Just too many problems and too many things to worry about, entrance angle, rubberbands, parts sliding....

Right now I use Slick Tricks and Magnus Snuffer SS 125's.

Left you a very valid comment in the other section you posted in...

Rost, I did screw up on the shot. I actually misjudged the yardage. I ranged a nearby tree where I thought he might step out, at 50 yards. He came in a little closer and I didn't adjust (no time, it happened quick). I was just glad as heck I wasn't using a crappy head or an aluminum head. The titanium head actually bent a little on impact, or from the bull struggling to get up. Needless to say, he was toast and the head actually poked through the off side of the spine. It doesn't get any better than that.

Toby, my elk wacking friend. The blades were far more expensive than planed at $2.00 a piece. The first run took FOREVER and I only got enough to supply 3 of us here with heads for the hunt. We killed 3 elk with fabulous success! So, you will just have to wait a little longer (wink). The second run will be completed soon, but I just ran out of money. Flinch

Flinch

Wasn't a negative comment, just a general one... life happens.... with our whitetail if you aim higher than the heart you often miss or spine... or high flesh... kinda pisses me off as it doesn't allow you to "aim in the middle" for the most margin of error... Oh well, vitals suck for shape anyway, its hard to aim in the middle of a mostly screwy shaped oval set of vitals.... Life would be much more fair if the vitals were round....

Jeff

Jim,

I've enjoyed selfbows, longbows and recurves since my youth. I've tried mechanical wheelbows but they don't offer me the same joy in bowhunting. I've had my share of success bowhunting over the years and if I've found anything lacking it was not in arrow penetration when using a simple turkey feather fletched cedar shaft along with a proper designed and sharpened two-blade fixed broadhead that had a finished weight around 9-10 grains per pound draw.

Thanks again, I often feel lost on these bowhunting forums where so many are wrapped around the axle in the latest, the fastest and the most mechanical archery tackle.

GVA

In Rhode Island expandables were illegal until just a few years ago. I hunted in Connecticut with them and couldn't understand why RI was so reluctant to allow us to use them. I used Thunderhead 125's with Aluminums, and 85's with Carbons. In CT, 15 or so years ago, I started using Spitfire 100's and then 85's. I still use them. My friends have switched to Slick Trick fixed blade heads because they went elk hunting last year, but I'm still using Spitfires. I have a friend who hunts the suburbs and is season quotas are in the double digits. He uses Spitfires. Our 30+ years of experience with them, we have never had a problem with the broadhead. Both of us acknowledge that the wound channel is bigger than any fixed blade heads out there. The 100s have an inch and a half cutting diameter. I like them.

The expandables seem to make the game expire alittle faster for me. Any expandable takes more energy to push, alot of the complaints I've ever heard with expandables were from bad heads and super light arrows.

The best expandables IMO are the NAP Shockwaves. They penetrate like crazy. I've even shot the SW through the center of the spine on a mature whitetail doe and yes, it came out the other side. Took the same head(that went through the spine) and shot through another doe the same week. She only went 10 yards and the arrow was buried in the ground on the off side.

I shot a buck a few years back at 32 yards quatering away and the arrow went through and buried in the ground. He made it maybe 15 yards.

Expandables are great but, you have to use good quality heads with a strong design.

I also prefer the type that are held with O-rings instead of the spit fire type friction hold. The firction hold take more energy to open, the o-ring type open with ease.

I'm not opposed to hunting with fixed blades, but I simply prefer the performance of good mechanicals.

Good Luck

Reloader7RM

The expandable that never opened, that I shot through a doe spine was in good enough shape to shoot again.

I don't really question the well built ones for durability... its the nagging question, when are they gonna FAIL to open up.... doesn't matter how strong they are if they don't open.... The one buck I had to trail to find... well I could have done as good by shooting a judo through his lungs instead of a closed expandable...

Jeff

What kind of expandable was it Jeff?

If it didn't open, it was not a good quality head.

The friction held blade design like a Spitfire seem to get a few complaints about not opening. Or one is loose and opens during flight causing a horrible plane.

A couple reason why I only use the o-ring type. I've taken quite a few deer with expandables and seen friends take many as well and none ever failed to open.

Fixed blades fail too, they are not the be all end all solution.

Bottom line is a good head, well tuned bow, and proper shot placement ensures success.

Reloader7RM

Reloader, I agree with you 110%. Being in the outfitting business, I have seen and heard every horror story that there has been with archery tackle. It seems that everyone has to try the new hot broadhead every year that comes out. They think it is the best thing since sliced bread, until they lose an animal with it, then its junk, and they will never shot it again. Bottom line, if you hunt with something long enough, something is going to fail. Most of the time it is poor shot placement. I had a guy in camp last week, that would not shoot muzzy heads if you paid him to do it, why, he lost a deer a couple of years ago, and of couse it was the broadheads fault. I am personally not a expandible fan because I do think they fail on quartering shots, or trying to weave on through a small opening. I have seen what they can do on perfect broadside shots, but I have also seen that they are [bleep] on quartering shots. Also, when an expandible head stays in the animal, then once the arrow draws back, the blades go forward, and are not cutting. With a fixed head, if it stays in the animal, then everytime that animal moves, it is doing damage. A couple of years ago, I had a client make a terrible shot with a fixed blade head, he stuck this bull, broadside, right in the middle of the hindquarter. I tracked this bull for a good 2 miles, with mimimal blood. The only reason that I was able to stay on him, is that it had rained the night before, and his tracks were easy to follow. My blood trail had ran out, and I was fixing to quit, I followed his tracks until he finally bedded 8 hours later, I never once jumped this bull, this was the first time he bedded. I heard him get up, and caught a brief glimpse of him leaving. I went to his bed, and there was just a very small pool, telling me that it was just a muscle hit, and that he would be okay. I was setting there breaking the bad news to my client, when I heard a very loud crash. I started to follow his tracks, and to my amazement, he had started to bleed very heavily. By the time I had followed him 60 or so yards, it looked like you were dumping blood out of a bucket, and about 200 yards later, there was the bull stone dead. Im my opinion, when this bull got up, the broadhead that was broke off in his hip, had finally cut into the femoral artery, and he died. I dont know it this was the case, but it is the only thing that I can figure out. So it is different strokes for different folks. To say the least, I was more then impressed with the new Rage, on what it did with one single elk, but Im not a believer yet, and I sticking with a fixed head.

Toby Joe

Reloader,
I actually am not sure on brand.. I do know that both the ones I used and my wife were only using o rings... We wired a head closed on both for practice.

The o ring was set in a mid point notch on the blades IIRC.

I"ve said, they worked fine on some, almost cut a gray fox in half... but on a doe that ducked, I spine hit her and the blades never opened, looke a lot like a big ragged hole, nothing cut on entry other than the chisel point basically. Final straw was a cull shot at about 14 yards, double lunged and when the arrow broke off the off side and fell at the fence, the head was still shut, the oring in place... found that buck almost 9 hours later... what a day.

Can any head fail? Yes, but that being said I've seen some failures with not the best fixed blades, but when shooting snuffers and Zwickeys I"ve never had a failure at all.

I've bowhunted almost 30 years now with over 100 head of big game under my belt... am not a newbie, in fact have hunted with a bow very little in the last 3 years, and prior to that I was specific hunting, IE not shooting much, mostly hunting. Had I wanted to really just kill that number would or could be much higher... Just saying I"ve got some experience...definitely not trying to brag because I'm not that great of a bowhunter.

I just feel that expandables don't offer it all, and for all the issues, they are just unreliable... Doesn't help them that I tried to shoot one of the biggest bucks for me to date with them, at a normal quartering away shot... evidently the tip slipped and a blade was open, shaved a heck of a patch of hair down one side....

I won't risk em any more. I've got proven heads to use in the meantime.

JEff