Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Who did this? Bear? Cat?

Was wondering what you guys think of this... went out to check on my elk head, which is hanging a few hundred yards back in our woods... or rather it WAS hanging a few hundred yards back. On the way into the woods, just past the fence to our goat pasture, I see this:



The tree is about as thick as a human thigh for reference. Some of those scratches are DEEP, but, even the highest one is only a couple feet off the ground. Seems awfully low for a bear; when I've seen them do that it's much higher up.

We have a fair number of cougar around here, but in almost 20 years on this land I've never seen sign of a bear, though they are certainly within just a few miles of here.

So I go out to where my elk head is hanging, and it's not there! I'd hung it about 8 feet up in an oak. Stood there pissed for a little bit then started looking. THere's a game trail near there, so I took it. Lots of leaf fall in the last few days but it still looked a little disturbed. About 150 yards from where I'd hung the head, I found THIS:



That's my elk head. Couldn't find and clear tracks or scat, but I didn't look that hard.

So I'm thinking bear or cat, but those scratches surprise me how low they are. What do you think?

Oh- saw some NICE buck rubs back in there by the swamp. Maybe I SHOULD hunt my own land <g>.

-jeff

Dunno 'bout the scratches.... But the skull will be clean faster, if ya pull the hide off.

My guess ... those two are unrelated.

The tree bark "stuff" is either a really big buck or a younger bull elk. I've seen deer go after trees that big a few times, usually alders growing along abandoned roads. One time I saw spike elk do that, too, but usually just a little higher up.

The skull being packed off is possibly bear, possibly coyote, possibly stray dog, but just as likely to be your friendly neighborhood raccoon as anything else.

Tom

TOM,

Thanks. How wierd would an ELK be?! They have been seen within a couple miles of here recently (off Jeans Road).

However... that wasn't from an elk. Well, scratch that (har har), it was completely unlike any elk (or deer) rub I've seen. It's so LOW, and the marks are so obviously parallel. I mean the lowest of those marks are like... 6" off the ground MAYBE? The photo doesn't really capture that. They are low.

I'd have to see a raccoon do that drag to believe it. The skull/horns/hide/meat was "set it down and rest your arm a minute" heavy- 30 lbs at least. I can't figure how a 'yote would get it DOWN from up there, and there's no teeth marks on the horns from dragging it, though I guess a critter might drag by the nose or ear...

Maybe a combo of Rocky Raccoon chewing the rope and 'yotes or a cougar or whatever dragging it off...

Bear would be worst-case scenario. Don't need one of those PITA MF'ers to show up. I guess I do have a bear tag still unfilled <g>.

By the way, the buck rubs out in the woods proper were much more like what you'd expect... I really should put a tree stand up out there...

I admit it! I did it Jeff.

bigfoot ha ha

You were lucky. A buddy lost the best set of mule deer antlers he'd ever taken by leaving them out over night. I'd be sure they were tethered if they are important to you. Like a lock and chain.

Any number of critters would chew that chit up. Ignorance is what ultimately caused it.

Not surprising..

Its not a cougar as i did not see any condoms or Kokanee cans.

a hungry fuggin' chicken...

Thanks guys for the humor, except Rancho, who gets the booby prize for ILL humor. <grin>

It was hangin' 8 feet up in a tree guys! That's what surprises me. Thought that would do it. Our property, especially back where it was, is REMOTE; it didn't need to be chained up to prevent any kind of human theft. You literally can't get there from where you are, cause of a swamp, other than coming down our road, and we be the last property on it... there's about a half-mile wide swath of woods and swamp back in there.

The other thing is that our woods are a tangled hardwoods MESS. It's tough going out there. It would take a decent-size critter to move that thing 100 yards through that stuff like that.

I'm thinking bear. Told the story at the grocery store and found out they've had one up at the winery a couple miles away... I'm going to head back out and look at sign tomorrow. I saw one track where whatever it was had slipped in the clay soil while dragging the head, and here's the funny part, it actually looked like a Bigfoot track <grin>.

Funny thing... when we bought this land 19 years ago we were surprised at the LACK of critters around. Deer especially. We think there used to be a lot of poaching out here that has gotten reduced as it's gotten more gentrified. Anyway there's deer, turkey, etc all over the place now. Maybe the bears are finally moving back to this area too.

Or a silver fox...

+1
(as usual someone with real insight chimes in)

I'm surprised you didn't say a Tasmanian Devil did the scratchin'......

ok, fair nuff, I hung a treat in a tree and someone came got it... My bad <g>.

But keep in mind I've owned this land and lived on it for 20 years; I know the fauna pretty well. This wasn't a coon, there aren't any 'yotes around the last few years, I have NEVER seen one speck of bear sign here... And I was thinkin a cougar would go up a tree for an elk head??

Thinking it about has to be bear or cougar to get a 30-on horned head through our obstacle course woods. Lots of cats around here so that's no surprise and I'd far prefer a cat over some PITA bear...

I believe a raccoon could rob a bank if he put his mind to it.

Why is the hide hanging on the skull? Did you want in done in three years?

Travis

It was Bigfoot looking for a soup bone

No, his merkin fell off when he, well...........
something about people and skulls; sick really.
Sorry Jeff! (g)

Bears would have been trying to peel the tree from the bottom up for the cambium, bears marking trees do it standing on their hind feet.

Lions would have had much closer claw marks and more of them and much less depth. They don't try and peel trees, they try to remove the dead old shell of the claws. They are not doing this with the kind of aggression and effort that is shown here.

The most telling feature to prove what has done this is the worn off uncut discolored bark between the scratches. The pads of the feet from an animal will not do that.

However the top of the head of a deer will with it's hair rubbing that bark will. I'm sure many people here have seen or killed deer with sap on top of their heads, or bits of bark in the fur. It's also not a single event. The dryness of the rubs are different from one place to the next. This has been rubbed several times over the course of a few weeks.

So to answer your question it's from a buck, that has wide enough antlers to allow the width of that tree to rub on the top of his head which had kinda rubbed off the color of the bark where it is now brown, without being cut. My guess is a wide 2 point with eyeguards. If it were a bigger buck there would be much more then the few deep cuts shown.

On the upper right there are three distinct cuts each curving outward. This is the way a buck will have raised its antlers three times each time making a near identical mark. No clawed animal is going to have three outwardly curved marks that way, all nearly identical. But the buck standing in front of this tree lifting and lowering his head will do this consistantly. The deepest and highest cuts are from the eyeguards, they have the most direct driven force and fit with the height. The top of the head made the trunk brown from the fur of the head rubbing it and the eyeguards made the cuts into the bark.

Had I believed it to be a lion I would have spent the time to find the shed pieces of the lions claws at the base of the tree. Sometimes you will find small yellowish bits of the claws that have peeled back to allow the new sharp points to come through.

When a Bear marks a tree, there is almost without exception a pile of dung very nearby to mark this as well. Very often there is fresh dung on an already existing older pile from the same bear or a newcomer trying to define the area.