Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .308 more accurate than 30-06?

I'd still like to know what kind of difference we are talking about here.

I will make a guess from what I read once 25 or so years ago.

.308------0.7"
old 06----0.8"
300WM---1.1"

These may have been ten shot groups. My new 1961 vintage 6mm Intl. came thru with a target showing and measured ten shots in.375" at 100 yds.

Thanks for the guess, think that may be the first time I've ever seen that, and if you are even close on guess, that suits me.

If I can keep 3 shots in .500 on centers from bench & bags, I'm happy. I have enough worry about inches when hunting, ha, ha!

I have that article in my collection of GUN DIGESTs, but am not about to look for it now. Might later. Remington's data, of course, came from hundreds if not thousands of barrels and rifles.

There are certain factors that go into making an accurate cartridge, most of which we understand. (I have never written an article, by the way, that said otherwise.)

In general, less powder for the bullet/bore makes them shoot better, because there isn't as much slam-bang. This has been well-documented as well in various studies of hundreds of rifles.

Shorter cartridges shoot better. The theory here is that the primer flame matches the powder column more precisely, thus ignition is more consistent. (This is EXACTLY how the PPC rounds were developed, to match the flame of the small rifle match primer from a certain diameter of flash-hole.)

My personal experience isn't with 100 each of .308's and .30-06's, but it is with dozens. I have seen many factory-made .308's that would shoot better than the average custom-made .30-06 with a match barrel. In general the .308's would also shoot a variety of loads better, while the .30-06's had to be dinked with.

One of the better .308's was a recent 7.5 pound (with scope) Sako 75 that would not only shoot factory Federals into .5 inch or less at 100 yards, but shot my handloads--developed for another .308--into .4 or less.

Have owned some .30-06's that would shoot some handloads into .5 or so, but by no means all.

Bob Nosler also firmly believes in the inherent accuracy of the .308. They shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds each year, all through barrels that are essentially identical except for bore and chambering. (They wear out a lot of the barrels, too!) Bob says the .308 is consistently the most accurate .30 they test, the reason they use it to test new batches of bullets.

My own impression is that a .308 will generally beat a .30-06 by a couple-three 10ths on average when shooting groups at 100 yards, everything else being equal. I have no data to back that up, except my general feeling of achievement when I find a .30-06 hunting load that will average .75, while such groups are routine out of most .308's.

MD

Of the couple dozen-ish big game rounds I've loaded for the 308 has been the quickest and easiest to get excellent accuracy with. If memory serves, I've owned seven and have another in the works right now... if cornered and forced to chose I'd say it's probably my favorite round.

I think there's a lot of confusion these day between theoretical/statistical accuracy and hunting accuracy.......

I don't use either the 30-06 or the 308 for pocket gopher hunting, I use them for big game hunting. The 30-06 delivers more of everything, except for a possibly a small amount of "paper" accuracy, so why wouldn't I prefer it as a big game round over the 308?

AD

I don't have anywhere near the experience of many of you good folks with the .308. However, when the guys (and gals) who shoot targets seriously choose the .308 over the .30-06, it seems to me we should take note. If something works better (gives them an edge), target shooters will find it and use it. If they use the .308, you can probably assume that it gives them some kind of advantage. Maybe not a lot, but enough. I'm assuming the advantage is more consistent, reliable accuracy. Currently, of the two, I only have a .30-06. But I'm not a serious target shooter.

I wonder if the bullets aren't jumping as far in .308's because "most" people are shooting lighter/shorter bullets in them, and if shooting lighter/shorter bullets in the 06 that's even more jump for them. The .30-06 has to be able to handle 180's and most hunting .308's probably never see a 180 gr bullet.


Somebody whoop out their like rifles in .308 and .30-06 and the stoney point and give us a measurement<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mike

Target shooters are lemmings.....

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I should add that my prior post should have mentioned that since most people shoot shorter bullets in the .308 the factories don't build in as much freebore.

I know my .270 WSM has about zero freebore..same short fat concept, with the additional need to keep cartridge geometry in check for feeding properly.

mike

My 30-06 match rifle shoots slightly better than either of my .308 match rifles, but that's an exception. On the average, the smaller the case capacity, the better the accuracy, as someone already posted.

The reason the 30-06 established a good target shooting reputation was that, until about 1960, High Power match rules REQUIRED that you had to shoot the 30-06, and no other caliber.

Later, the .308 was allowed (both being US service rifle cartridges), and gradually most good shooters changed to the .308 for reasons of accuracy. Many M1 Garands were converted to .308.

At the time, the match load was a 173 grain bullet in both cases. The 30-06 shot this at 2640 fps; the .308 at 2550 fps. Both used IMR 4895. The acceptance criterion for a "lot" of ammo was a 100-shot 6" group at 600 yards (a lot harder than shooting a 1" three shot group at 100 yards, thank you).

The M1A is more accurate than the M1 Garand mostly because it has a shorter operating rod, not because it uses the .308 cartridge. Less banging and clanging.

Now that all cartridge restrictions have been removed, the .308 usually gets beat for accuracy by the .223 in the service rifle category or by various 6mms in the match rifle category. By the same token, the 6.5-.284 is good for minimizing wind deflection at 1000 yards, and 300 magnums are seldom seen any more.

My question to this statement....if the '06 was better, why did most move to the .308? As said before, recoil plays a huge role in accuracy and the .308 wins the battle here in a HUGE way.

As for ballistics, usually a "stable" and flatter shooting bullet is more accurate, but in this case the .308 is just an awesome combo of case and bullet.

I would say for the range.....I would choose the .308. For hunting, I would choose the '06.

Although, I will contradict myself, as most of the "BIG BOYS" of 500+ yard target shooting at my range are going to the 300WSM, which has much more recoil than the .308. To this arguement, the 300WSM might not be quiet so explosive in a 14 pound rig. (Two of which I have personally seen.)

"Although, I will contradict myself, as most of the "BIG BOYS" of 500+ yard target shooting at my range are going to the 300WSM, which has much more recoil than the .308. To this arguement, the 300WSM might not be quiet so explosive in a 14 pound rig. (Two of which I have personally seen.)"

If so, most of the "big boys" are going to lose.

The national championships get won by .243 bullets weighing 115 grains and travelling 3000 fpm nowadays. The extra recoil of the 300WSM prohibits comparable accuracy with a bullet having the same BC.

[quoteThe national championships get won by .243 bullets weighing 115 grains and travelling 3000 fpm nowadays. The extra recoil of the 300WSM prohibits comparable accuracy with a bullet having the same BC. [/quote]

Feet per minute?

Are these primer powered rounds only? That would certainly keep recoil down.












<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In both NRA high power rifle competition, and NBRSA Hunter rifle matches, the .308 proved to be (on average) more accurate. Hundreds of matches over dozens of years proved the .308 to be more accurate. Consistent differences were about 1/4 to 1/2 MOA. Remember many of these heavy-barreled match rifles weighed from 10 1/2 lbs. to 30 lbs.

However, for a hunting rifle with a standard barrel weighing only 8 lbs., the difference is neglible.

Hope this answers your question.

Jerry G.
However, for a hunting rifle

Sure, the .308 is more "accurate" than the 06 I would think or the Marine-Army snipers wouldn't be using it.

Thanks to everyone. I appreciate all of the responses.
I guess I have to buy another .308!!

MD and others-
The Gun Digest article that included data on accuracy vs. cartridge case size appeared in the 1968 edition. It was written by Warren Page and was titled "The Bigger the Cartridge...". His data of group size with case size were presented as a graph, but I'll summarize them here in a list:

• 0.363 - - 222 Rem
• 0.387 - - 222 Rem Mag
• 0.400 - - 223 Rem
• 0.434 - - 22-250
• .
• 0.411 - - 6x47
• 0.479 - - 244 Rem
• 0.454 - - 6mm Rem
• .
• 0.540 - - 6.5 Rem
• .
• 0.640 - - 7mm Rem Mag
• .
• 0.572 - - 7.62 NATO (308)
• .768 - - 30-06
• 0.780 - - 30-308
• 1.000 - - 308 Win Mag

The list is separated into groups of common bore size, which is the way Page approached his comparison of case size vs accuracy.

Some comments by Page about how these data were obtained: "These [40-X rifles] are hand-assembled from selected parts by a relatively small number of artisans in what Remington calls their custom shop... Every one made is test-fired before it is released, all shooting done by the same guy in the same tunnel range, using standardized handloads. The chart you see with this article summarizes these test firings not for 10 rifles nor yet 100, but for several hundred over the list of calibers in which thse are produced, actually as many as 150 rifles in one caliber. It is a reliable sampling made under controlled conditions. ... There does indeed seem to be, for the same make and general design of rifle, same diameters of barrel, same carefully assembled loadings utilizing in most cases the same bullets, same shooter, a relationship between case size and accuracy potential, doesn't there?"

(I've included in the list the original typos. The "Mag" is missing from the 6.5 Rem, the 30-308 listing should undoubtedly be 30-338, and the 308 Win Mag should be listed as the 300 Win Mag. John Amber must have been sleepy when he edited this article.)

It is not clear how many shots made up each group. Page indicated that three groups were fired with each rifle in the pre-release testing.

--Bob

All I know is I have seen the .308 used in 200yd benchrest competition. I think it held a record for a while.
I shot one myself on a good day it would hang around the 2's.
Hart barrel Rem sleeved action.
-Doc-

I take that my memory was quite good on that.

# 0.572 - - 7.62 NATO (308) <-- I guessed .7
# .768 - - 30-06 <-------------.8
# 0.780 - - 30-308
# 1.000 - - 308 Win Mag <-------------1.1"