Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Some help with calculating weights?

I have a Rem 600 that I want to build a fairly light 25-284. Kind of a mountain mule deer rifle.

Does any one know the weight of a 600 action?

I am thinking stainless Pac-Nor #2 at 23 inches and am torn between a Bansner or McMillan light fill McSwirly in mountain rifle config.

How much difference between the Bansner and the McMillan?

I am also thinking about the alloy trigger guard assembly from Heritage arms and all metal coated.

Any guess as to the weight of this rifle with a Bansner stock and Pac. Decelerator with the metal configured so?

M-600 is 31 oz, a std McM will go about 8-10 over a Bansner. Let's try a different slant on this...what would you like the bare rifle to weigh?? 5 lb? 6 lb?

JimF

More in the 6 lb range.

I am not looking for an extreme lightweight that would require skeletonizing parts etc.

Thanks Jim.

My only tip has to do with what you should avoid for a true light rifle.

The "light rifles" that I remember most vividly were extremes -- by guys who had spent hours and sweat skeletonizing and trimming-down steel and hollowing-out wood, from the barrel to the butt plate, to pare-off a fraction of an ounce here and a few unnecessary grains there -- then had fitted what was left with huge variable scopes and Percheron-harness "slings." Several of the latter were not only wide and heavy but also laminated and padded, with a row of cartridge loops. The add-ons easily and far out-weighed the take-offs. The "logic" of all this still escapes me -- reminds me of what Josh Billings wrote about love (approximately):

They say that love is blind, but I know some guys in love who can see more in their gals than I can.

Apparently, "weight" sometimes depends more on the scales on one's eyes than on the scales that honestly report avoirdupois numbers.

I often wondered, if the magazine capacity was 3 more, say 7 instead of 4, would a person thats so focused on lightweight reject the 3 extra in order to save 3 ounces. I mean, three ounces is A LOT in the light weight quest.

That is funny and so true!



Thanks for the thoughts.



As far as slings go, I am kinda old fashioned. I still use the old style military slings. Developed the habit of taking a wrap to steady the rifle long ago.



The scope will be either a Leupie 6x42 or 3x9.



Bill

In addition, one of my elk-hunting partners years ago always wore a thick leather cartridge belt, 3-1/2 to 4 inches wide, with 30 or more always filled loops for his .30-06 cartridges (all with 220-grain bullets!), though he never fired more than three rounds on any given day afield (often just one, more often none).

Counting those in his chamber and magazine, his bullets alone weighed over a pound. He also carried other heavy stuff, including big and heavy binoculars, a hatchet, big knife, Thermos, etc, so he was loaded in more ways than one.

It always seemed obvious to me that there were easier ways to save weight than to trim a little here and a smidgen there off the rifle. I'm sure, for example, that my 2-1/2� scope was significantly lighter than his huge variable.

Wonder how much a wrist watch weighs. Should we shred that too?



All jokes aside. I know that CARRYING something is different than WEARING something, but I often wonder if we get a little hung up on weight, and I'm referring to a few ounces here and a few ounces there, not the difference between a #1 barrel and a #4 barrel.

Bill......

Here is where your recipie as stated will get you.

M-600.....................................................................31
PN..#2 @ 23"...........................................................47
Bansner short forend (ADL) with conventional pad......23

Or.....................................6 lb. 5 oz
Add ~~ 6-8 oz. for a McM....6 lb. 12 oz.

For my taste this rifle would be muzzle heavy. But, that's just personal preference.

If you wanted to get closer to your 6 lb. goal, you could try a custom contour. PN is very accomodating for this. A modified Lilja #2 would get you there. This will save you roughly 7 oz. over your current recipie and IMHO, it would balance better.

Cyl Dia...................................................1.150
Cyl length...............................................1.750
Shank or "B" on most bbl. diagrams.............750
Cyl + contour or "E" on most diamgrams.....5.250
Muzzle.......................................................575

The following is REAAALLY an opinion with only a little basis in experience.

In my limited experience with women and rifles, they don't want to "fiddle" with the scope, so I'd go for the 6x42 or even a 4x33. They also don't like to shoot groups very much. They do like "action" targets such as a grapefruit or a milk jug or a gong.

You (ARE) building this for her.........Right?........... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JimF

JimF,
I second your opinion on the barrel contour. I just went and weighed a #2 Pacnor, threaded and chambered for 25-06, 1" cylinder ahead of threads, 25" in length. Came in right at 3 lbs. on my scales. A Pacnor #1 is actually much closer to most other barrel makers' #2 contour and it or your modified Lilja #2 would get closer to the desired weight of 6 lbs.

That's just a feeling, not a fact. A delusion or an illusion -- take your pick.

Carried or worn, � pounds take the same toll of your energy all through the day, whether or not you feel it in your arms. Worn or carried, it's all a load. Your snowshoes know this, even if you don't. I once had to discard a warm coat because it was 'way too heavy for hunting on foot in the high country, in deep snow, on snowshoes. It tired me out fast even when I wasn't carrying anything heavy -- on a bighorn-sheep census and forage survey, for example or walking from the house to the campus.

Ounces are ounces, and they add-up into pounds that your po' ol' bod has to tote, no matter whether they're on your rifle, in your pack, on your belt, or in your pocket. They all take the same energy to tote, whether or not you notice the drain.

I agree but what I meant was that you feel the weight more when its strapped to your shoulder. Your shoulder starts to hurt under the strap. You feel the weight more when your fingers start to cramp or your arm gets tired from carrying. I realize that it all takes the same energy to move, but when weight is concentrated in one area, you "feel" it more than if its more evenly disbursed. I believe this is what Ken was referring to when he stated "whether or not you notice the drain".



I agree 100%. We dote light weight rifles so much and fail to discuss weight savings in other places. I'll bet most of the light weight guys also focus on weight savings with other gear/equipment, however, it's not as much fun as trimming weight from a rifle and therefore doesnt get as much discussion.

Roads

Ken
Must respectfully disagree on the concept that pounds are pounds and the location matters not, for a few basic reasons. Though I agree the energy required to move from point A to B can be readily calculated, every bit of energy required to get there with weights at various points requiring extra energy to control is quite different.

As an extreme example, 10# boots would wear you out far faster than track shoes and a small pack, calculate the exact energy required to move it any way you like, controling them will take extra energy.

Likewise a handheld rifle will consume energy in controling its movement, which will greatly exceed the body's A to B travel distance. Since the rifle will move more it will use a different amount of energy. Some of the energy will help you move forward, doubtless, but much will increase the real load.

Part of the problem is the increased fatigue in muscles unaccustomed to the extra weight and the tiring effect that has, but much is real, increased energy consumption.
art

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am building it for the whole family. I have 3 kids coming up too.

I don't like carrying around anything heavier than I have to either.....

6 1/2 lbs would work well. As mentioned before, I want to build a lighter rifle, not necessarily an ultralight.

Thanks for the help. I printed it out and will look hard at your thoughts when it gets sent off.