I haven't been able to find anything but the 20 vmax locally as of late. I have some 25 HPs squirreled away but only about 100. Sad deal is that about 2 weeks before I bought my 17 I could have bought a pile of the bergers for $10 a box and passed because I had no need of them. I honestly never thought I would get a 17 and stumbled into mine for $200, don't think I'll ever be without one now! Just need to find a big box of 25 grainers.