Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Penitration or lack there of

LSU - it ain't that no one's shooting the MZ....

I've found the Barnes in 300gr to be the most accurate load I've tried in my Wolverine yet....but I have yet to fire one at any live game. Not that I didn't see any close up this season. I had a few chancees at elk under 100yds, but I was just too slow to get a clean shot off.

So obviously, I can only attest to accuracy (sub - 1" groups at 100yds w/scope). I can only assume they will perform well, based on my success with the X in .300winmag and .308win.

Maybe next year I can offer more complete info... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-FreeMe

I'm a beginner in the M.L. scene. But I would like to share my little experience. I'm shooting a Black Diamond XR with 150 gr Pyrodex pellets and 209 primers. I experimented at the range with serval 240 -250 gr sabots. Accuracy on the Swift A-Frame and Barnes were both under 1" at 100 yards, but the A-Frame excelled at 200 yards. This would be my deer load!
Shot two does. First doe (120 lbs)was broadside at 100 yds, went in behind the sholder and shredded both lungs before exiting. She ran about 75 yards before going down. Left a good blood trail.
Second doe (180 lbs) was 75 yds bedded down quartering me with her head looking back behind her. I was slightly above her looking at her left side. Bullet entered on the top right side of her neck , going thru the length of her neck, exited the bottom of her neck on her left side, entered her left shoulder, through one lung and the liver, found the bullet under the skin on her right side at the diaphram area. Did not weigh the bullet but the nose was gone, just the jacketed part left. Her neck and left shoulder were jelly.
Needless to say as a beginner I was extremely pleased with the accuracy and penetration this combination gave me!

Free Me,

I know how you feel. I've been shooting the Barnes for about 3 years now and that buck is the only one thats wandered into range during muzzeloader season. Maybe next year I'll get one with it.

Free me, what kind of load are you shooting with the 300 gr. Barnes? Just curious because I have been shooting the 250's and was going to give the 300's a try. I have been shooting 100 gr. of Clean Shot and no. 11 caps. I am happy with them, but trying the 300's will give me another reason to shoot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bukfevr - since last summer, I've been using 90gr of 777 fffg and CCI #11 magnums. I'm also now using the newer 300gr MZs with the package clearly marked "new high pressure sabots, easier loading" - or something like that. The original ones were a bear to load, and not as accurate.

-FreeMe

Freeme, Know what you mean about hard to load. The first ones I bought were in the Knight package. I shot 3 and said so much for these. They shot great, but it was all you could do to load them. I emailed Barnes and they said make sure to get the new ones, the ones with that sticker about new sabots, easier loading. They are MUCH easier to load than the first ones.

I was shooting a 303gr Remington core-lokt sabot bullet with 2 50gr pellets of pyrodex in my Knight DISC rifle when I shot my first bull elk in 2000. The shot was broadside at 60 yards and was a complete pass through. In 2001 I shot a bull that was quartering towards me with the same Remington bullet and I'm pretty certain the bullet nuked on his shoulder because I never found him and the shot was only 35 yards! Two days later I came face to face with another bull and as he turned to run away I shot him. He ran about 50 yards and stopped. I knew he was hit hard but I shot him again behind the shoulder and he went down right there.
Last year I went to a 435gr lead sabot bullet, again with two 50-50's.Last year's bull was about 75-80 yards away broadside and slightly uphill. The shot was high in the chest and caught the first lung, went through his spine and out the other side. Needless to say he dropped on the spot.
I have used lead sabot bullets on whitetails here in Indiana for years with devastating results. The bullet deformation really causes tissue damage yet they still penetrate. I think the jacketed bullets expand too perfectly and do little tissue damage.
Whatever the bullet you use, I think anything larger than deer should only be shot broadside or slightly quartering away. I try to keep my shots under 100 yards also. Good luck!

I'm new to MLing and don't know jack. I'm thinking that a .50 cal lead projectile is going to expand pretty fast. Energy/frontal area ratio of the slug is going to determine penetration, other things being equal. Since the slug was .5 to begin with, expansion is rapidly eating up energy, even with lots pf powder. The slug is just huge. Seeing that .50 is plenty of diameter to start with, I would look for something with less expansion and more speed for bigger critters -- like a jacketed or copper saboted load. I'll be testing these next go 'round. Meanwhile, I don't see any way to go wrong with a whitetail within 100 yards with anything remotely reasonable.

Again regarding Muley Stalker -- I bet you thought "%#&&*^! Any decent archery shot would have penetrated more than this!" Didn't you? I'm reminded of what appears to be a photo of a pass-through arrow shot on Greenhorn's FAT bull last season...

Encountering nothing but ribs, I would be dissappointed if my whitetail archery rig did not pass through.

Fearless,

I think you are on the right track using the 195g Barnes over the 150g Knight. The BC on the 150g is pretty bad so even though the 150g is started much faster, the 195g will shoot flatter at 200yds. Flatter and much higher retained energy.....hard not to like!

My 45 cal. muzzleloader is made by Millenium Designed Muzzleloaders and it's called a Buckwacka. It's made from stainless and breaks open like a single shot shotgun. Only gripe I have with it is it's heavier than I prefer. One of the reasons I chose the Buckwacka is the mfg. states it's safe to use 200g of blackpowder when shooting bullet weights less than 220g. 150g of blackpowder is the max for bullet weights of 220g or more.

Since I would be getting more velocity using 200g of powder, I wanted to pick a bullet that wouldn't come apart. The 195g Barnes seemed perfect......figured it had a better chance than a jacketed or lead bullet of staying together and copper bullets have higher BCs than lead bullets (comparing equal weight). I had little time to tune a load before hunting season but 200g of pyrodex pellets shot acceptably.

My first (and only so far) chance was at a small buck. I was sitting in a tree stand when he crossed a small creek and walked a trail straight toward me. Since his head was down I aimed at the spine at the base of the neck. The shot was at 20yds and angled down. The first thing the bullet hit was the spine. It penetrated the spine, penetrated the length of the chest, exited the bottom of the chest at the diaphragm, and lodged in the knee (for lack of a better term) of the right, rear leg. When I walked up to the deer the base of the bullet was shining through the skin.

That is pretty tough conditions.......high velocity, close shot, strike bone on impact. It still penetrated through two feet of deer. Here is a picture of the recovered bullet:



I'm not sure you can put much trust in one incident but I am satisfied with the 195g Barnes performance.

HogWild

Hog wild that is impressive performance of your bullet there.
I wish you would do an experiment with your rifle, to see how much powder it is burning. If you could lay some sheets out in front of it, I bet some big chunks of unburned powder are flying out the muzzle.
I have it on pretty good authority that you aren't going to burn more than 130 grains of powder in a .50
I believe that less than that would burn in a .45
Or you could check it with a chronograph.

Simon,

I certainly will be checking my velocity with a chronograph. I'll let you know what I find out.

HogWild