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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,373 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,373 Likes: 21 |
Dude I'm busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. But I'm doing what I can, lol. Cool! Hope your having lots of fun! I'm sure it beats riding a bike in this dadgum heat.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1 |
In other news, there's a new study out that shows a direct correlation between small penises and a reluctance to carry a "9mm girl gun". There's also a correlation of law enforcement agencies being victims of salesmen, economy and false premises. Don't get me wrong, Speer makes decent products.....
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
In other news, there's a new study out that shows a direct correlation between small penises and a reluctance to carry a "9mm girl gun". There's also a correlation of law enforcement agencies being victims of salesmen, economy and false premises. And science and facts and statistics and math. Stupid facts always messing up our pre-conceived notions......
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1 |
Your department uses Speer/ATK?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
ATK doesn't make missiles.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
Vista Outdoor (formerly ATK) owns....
Bushnell
Weaver
Simmons
Millet
Tasco
Bolle
Serengeti
Blackhawk
RCBS
Speer Bullets
Alliant Powder
Champion
Butler Creek
Uncle Mikes
Primos
Hoppes
Gunslick
Outers
Federal Premium Ammo
CCI
Speer
Blazer
Estate Cartridge
Savage Arms
Camelbak
So if you're wondering if a law enforcement / government agency uses Vista Outdoor products, the answer is almost certainly "yes".
Just like nearly any reloader, shooter, hunter or hiker uses Vista Outdoor products. Because they're so susceptible to those tricky salesmen.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,540 Likes: 2 |
There's also a correlation of law enforcement agencies being victims of salesmen, economy and false premises.
Been going on ever since there have been LE agencies and salesmen. When you add the fact that LE is also one of the most fad-driven elements of the market, any screw up turns into a big circular Stooge-slap with a built-in cheer-leading section.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1 |
Could have easily been Hornady, weren't for any pre-conceived notions....
And McDonalds has the best hamburgers, because science, statistics and math says so.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1 |
"Bonded expanding bullets save innocent bystanders!"
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,622 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,622 Likes: 4 |
Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round New study shows when round-count, accuracy and penetration are factored in, bigger isn't better.
Those who prepare these studies assign arbitrary value factors to whatever qualities they decide to. This is not the first time that the Fat, Bald, and Ignorant have closed the case on cartridge selection. Likely not the last. They use data from the field to determine importance.
And the report is for finding the optimum cartridge for law enforcement departments/agencies. Not every citizen in the country. They always have used data collected from field incidents. They have previously come up with quite different results. The selection of data parameters factored in influences the outcome of the result. The fbi is a large and dynamic agency with a diverse cadre. I believe that selection of the 9mm for them is common sense. At least for today. That said, common sense is a hard commodity to assign a data point to. They needed a study to back them up, and they are very good at achieving that end.
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,978 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,980 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,980 Likes: 6 |
The 9mm failed to reach the heart on a 6'-1"" 170 pound felon. That's a failure in my book.
^^^This^^^ Speaks volumes to me. I'll stick with my 45acp or, if I feel the need for more rounds, one of my Glocks in .357 sig or 10mm. I've personally seen a bonded .223 load (the same load that I shot end to end on several hogs) fail to penetrate to a guy's heart after passing through his left arm. Stuff happens. And samples of one, or even a few, aren't valid. That's why I give weight to a study that considered an enormous amount of data rather than "well, one time....." stories. One theme that's consistent is that 115 grain expanding 9mm lead core bullets are not good penetrators it's been demonstrated over and over and over.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I think it is sad that men have to carry a 9mm just so that females can qualify. PC bullshit if you ask me. You obviously have not read the report. Or if you have, you ignored every piece of information presented. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
They always have used data collected from field incidents. They have previously come up with quite different results.
Of course they have. There's new data. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
![[Linked Image]](http://2qtvrz46wjcg34jx1h1blgd2.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/67/files/2012/05/Desert-Eagle-.50.jpg) Next question
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,667 Likes: 41
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,667 Likes: 41 |
Your data isn't complete until you ask all the surviving people shot with a 9mm, how much it hurt and if they would rather have been shot with something else...
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
The 9mm failed to reach the heart on a 6'-1"" 170 pound felon. That's a failure in my book.
The criteria for this justification was 12"-18". (This is not a penis joke.) Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,636 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,636 Likes: 2 |
It makes sense if you are doing it "for the women"... I just read and talk face to face w guys that were THERE on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and they tell me the 9 SUCKS. Not to mention JWP's link above.. 9mm is for girls... And how did it "suck"? How did the 9mm stack up against .40s and .45s in side by side comparison? What was the sample size for each caliber? What loads were they using? Because if they weren't the loads the FBI considered or what I'll carry, I couldn't give a flip less about somebody's "one time at band camp" stories. Afghanistan and Iraq were "one time at band camp"? seriously? See JWP's link on US Army tests on the 9 v 45. Pretty convincing. And BTW, it is a fact the FBI originally chose the 10mm that later led to the 40 S&W because of the female issue and recoil, ergo the 40 was an accommodation for the females and since the 9 recoils even less, well penis envy notwithstanding, there you are.
Last edited by jorgeI; 08/27/15.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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