Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

If the argument is couched solely on what you've written above, then there is no point of contention. It still does not INVALIDATE the fact that a 45 ACP is a superior cartridge OR the fact the 40 S&W was designed in response to the 10s heavy recoil and female agents, and the 9mm recoils even less.

For the purposes of law enforcement, the .45 is inferior.

As far as 9mm vs. 10mm, I invite you to shoot a qualification with a 9mm. Then shoot it the next week with full-tilt 10mm's.

Be sure and video your vagina hitting the deck by the time you get to the 25yd line.



Travis

That's not why the .40 was designed. The .40 was designed to meet a specific ballistic standard which the standard 10mm greatly exceeded. Although the 10mm hit the market first, the .40 S&W had been in development prior to the 10mm. When the FBI had Federal download the 10mm to the FBI round, S&W pleaded with the FBI to hold off for the 4006 which was nearly finished in development, but the FBI jumped the gun (no pun intended) and adopted the 1076.

The .40 S&W was developed to be a modern .38/40, NOT a watered down 10mm, it was always that way and had nothing to do with the 10mm and women. The .40 S&W exists because it provides a specific performance requirement and fits in a 9mm sized pistol.

Of course for LE the 9 is superior for LE, given the renowned record of LEOs and marksmanship, then spray and pray becomes central to their survival. Real combat has time and again proven the superiority of heavier bullets and stopping the enemy (as in for example, the various iterations we've had to go through with the 5.56, not to mention what combat veterans like ET have reported when up against the 7.62X39). Along those lines, I've spoken many times with a retired Army 0-6 Ranger who was a proponent of the M-16 because in his opinion it weighed much less than the 14 AND you could carry a hell of a lot more ammo so again in that regard the smaller, lighter caliber is better. Still he recognized the 7/62X51 as much superior as a man stopper and ability to penetrate

It also doesn't alter the fact of the timeline development of the 10 and the 40 and the reasons why. One does have to have the intellectual flexibility to take the discussion into separate levels though as in for example, the 45 in both the lab and real life has proven to be the superior cartridge when it comes to stopping power. Now, when other relevant data is plugged into the equation (as in officer un-marksmanship) then a belt-fed 9 is obviously the better tool.

Kevin, I din't imagine the female issue, then again I don't have the time to research it, but it looks like you have, so that works for me.

The first “10mm” was the .40 G&A and was actually much more like a .40 S&W. It was a converted Browning Hi Power (so short case, not the longer 10mm case). Barrel was made by Bar-Sto and RCBS made the dies. Cases were made from cut down .224 Weatherby Magnum cases and it even headspaced off of the belt. The original ballistics was nearly identical to what we have now, 180 grain bullet at 1,000fps (today’s load is typically 950fps).

Then near the end of the ‘70’s the cartridge broke off into two camps. One went on to develop the 10mm, the other created the “centimeter” cartridge by holding to the original concept of a modern .38/40; this would eventually be the .40 S&W cartridge.

So in reality, the 10mm cartridge was created from the .40 S&W, not the other way around.

Once someone has .45 on the brain, you're better off trying to convince a black person O.J. was guilty than even mentioning 9mm in the same sentence.

If you read No Second Place Winner by Bill Jordan who was a Border Patrol agent for 30 years, he has lots of "band camp stories".
He also describes the ideal law enforcement handgun which would either be a revolver in 41 magnum or a 10mm auto. He did not mention the size of his penis.
I used to like to listen to band camp stories when I was pulling targets at rifle matches.
I never heard a cop say he wishes they would let him carry a smaller pistol so he could shoot faster and more accurately.

bullshit...

He also accidentally shot a guy.

Feel free to shoot a 70ish round course of fire with your 41 magnum. Or better yet, enter an IDPA match with it, and compare your scores to the guys shooting 9mm's.

You haven't met many cops.



Travis

Any cop who doesn't say that is retarded.

I'd love to see your evidence showing that the 9mm loads didn't meet or exceed the penetration criteria, why having less bullets in a gunfight is advantageous, and that heavier recoil is superior to lighter recoil when shooting for time.



Travis

Now, what was so difficult about that?




Travis

I always enjoyed bowling pin matches.
The favorite memory was when some kid with a Glock fired his entire payload and then left five pins standing. What a hoot.

I never said anything to the contrary, once the "for LEO" was inserted into the equation for all the reasons stated by you and of course ME.

You Cubans have a horrible temper.




Dave

I would not be surprised to learn most Minnesotan's can't shoot worth a schit.




Travis

According to your statistics most cops can't either. (70-80% misses.)
I am not LE but I have watched them qualify at the local gun club. It is amusing.
I don't think those guys that carry huge race guns firing practical pistol matches have any relation to a civilian using a pistol for home defense.
Whoever fires the first accurate shot wins.
I have never heard of a self defense shooting involving 70 rounds.
My strategy would be to answer with a 12 gauge not a pistol. (Reluctantly) Judges are really touchy in Minnesota.

They're not my statistics.



Travis

Your reference to "huge race guns" takes the cake for campfire ignorance, and that says a lot.

"Whoever fires the first accurate shot wins" is a doozy as well.




Travis