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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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AS posted:
How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?
The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.”
This strikes me as being a very legitimate question. “How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?”
John 14:20 - Jesus speaking: “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
Also, John 14:17-18 - Jesus speaking: “.....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
There it is and it is simple. Once God has come to live within someone, they know it. They also begin to understand more about the truth.
TF
so, were humans (Adam & Eve) {24 hourcampfire is not responding}. true humans? I say they were. were they hybridized from space aliens and pre-human primates? I say they/we could have been. but, who's to know? what about this "truth" of which you speak? what does it tell you? can you share with the rank & file, or just quote scripture? inquiring minds would like to know. seriously, the Hebraic Tradition and the greek & egytian beliefs are so far apart that the twain shall never meet?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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If you have convincing evidence for the existence of souls, please present it.
I have faith ... that's all I need. If you have convincing evidence that we do not have souls ... please present it. In the meantime I'll do my best to convey my personal experiences where souls are concerned - with regard to human death and life. This is just one example of many I have witnessed during the course of my life which, has seen many deaths. Yet this one is most personal. As a teenager I watched my grandfather die of oat cell lung cancer. It was a horrible death in which, over the course of about a month, he slowly suffocated to death. On the night he died in his home on our farm I watched him go through his death throes ... using all the hand gestures he had used during my childhood to tell stories of his life, he relived his life during those final minutes before he gave his last breath. He was a hunter, an ex Calvary man, a Texan, who lived through the great depression and WW II and ... he had these bird dogs, rip raff pointers, that he loved. And they loved him. When he became ill so quickly, my mother and father gave the dogs to a nearby neighbor, and farmer, a close friend of my grandfather's, who wanted to take care of the dogs and hunt them as they were meant to do. He lived about two miles from us as the crow flies or, as we used to say back then, "on the little farm beyond the north creek." When my grandfather gave his last breath, in the middle of the night surrounded by his family and far sooner than any of us thought it might happen .... the phone rang. It was our farmer neighbor. Because, at that very instant, those eight dogs had started howling and would not stop ... to which the farmer felt it meant something, as if something had passed by, and it caused him to get out of bed and dial our party line. But it doesn't end there. Some years later, after I had served, as all the men in my family have done, I found myself doing contract work in Central America. Eagle Aviation here in Columbia, SC had made it's bones as Air American during the Vietnam war, and now it was doing the same under Reagan in Central America in the late 80s and I had returned from my time in service with a particular skill set which made me an attractive hire to interests involved in Central America at the time. During one of our later, for lack of a better terms, missions ... my unit found itself stranded in a rather precarious situation where our C-123 failed to show for extraction. We later found out that it had been shot down and one of the mechanics, a guy by the name of Gene Hasenfus, had been captured ... but that's another story. So anyways, here we are left to E & E back to Ilopango on our own devices ... and this is where the story continues. It was a long hike. Details not important but everyone in that part of the world was looking for us for obvious reasons - both sides. During the course of the hump I was basically surrounded, in a jungle which I'll leave to your imagination, by the bad guys. I was tired, hungry, sick from drinking bad water and I was at my wit's end. I gave up and in a last gasp to evade capture I lay down in a gully full of creepy crawly things that you cannot imagine, covered myself in jungle gunk and waited to be stepped-on at which time I had resigned myself to death because my intention was to come up guns-a-blaring. I had already said my prayers and asked that my Mother not suffer in her grief. I could hear the bad guys talking and shouting at one another, they knew they were close. I figured one of them had probably seen me because they came in with intent from both ridges - it was only a matter of them closing their ranks upon me. But a peacefulness and calm took over which I cannot explain and I heard footsteps coming towards me on the mushy jungle floor. As I looked up through my quilt of cover I saw my grandfather standing there just above me to my left ... looking down upon me with his fingers to his lips as if shushing me. He was much younger than I had ever known him to be personally ... although few pictures existed of his younger days, I suspected he was young as if pre-war, maybe in his twenties, still strong, before the glasses and dentures, his hair still blonde and his eyes still twinkling blue and he was healthy and confident. I lay there amazed, afraid to even twitch thinking I was already dead and he was there to take me somewhere ... wherever he had been since his death. I'll never forget his teeth. He had lost his teeth during WWII before my birth ... but there he was with this smile full of teeth. Then he moves off not silently, but with physical sounds and the next thing I know gunfire erupts and I hear all the bad guys moving south from my position. I laid there for a moment wondering what I had just witnessed before uncovering myself and hauling tail north ... But it doesn't end there. Back in South Carolina, we think around the same time, my mother was awoken by a feeling that her father had passed through the room. She had been having bad feelings for days that something had happened to me. I was estranged from the family at the time and they had absolutely no idea where I was or what I was doing - all they knew was that I had returned to the states from Italy and disappeared. She was asleep on the top of her bed - depressed at the feelings she was experiencing that I was in great danger. Then, she suddenly felt like everything was going to be okay, as if she knew I was being watched-over by her Dad. Not knowing what to do she got in her car and first drove to our church, I was raised devout Lutheran, and she prayed with our pastor, an old German fellow who we all loved and respected. He comforted her to some degree but it wasn't enough. So she had heard of this physic woman in Columbia back then ... I can't remember the gal's name but she was one of those spooky women who claimed to have the ability to talk to whomever ... I dunno. This part I cannot explain. She drove from our farm to Columbia and visited this woman who took her money, then took something of mine which I shall not mention, and proceeded to tell my mother that I was indeed in danger, but her father had interceded (which my mother had never mentioned her feelings that her father had passed by) ... and that I was on a river, on my way home, and I was alive and well. I finally made it home 47 days later. I had been there for several days before my sister told me the story of what my mother had been through ... and I approached my mother to tell me her version of her experience, which she did. And here is the rest of the story. I listened to Mom ... then I told her what happened and about my experience - and she cried. And oh, about that river? It was true. I had been picked-up just east of Las Lomas and boated up a river, for two days, to a road where I was then trucked/snuke near Somoto and crossed over into Honduras on my way back to Ilopango. That's my story. Am I being honest or am I full of bravo sierra? You decide. In the meantime, I believe in souls. There is way more out there than human being has yet to come close to understanding. Times were simpler millennials ago. We've let modern science and the many mitigating parties disrupt our natural ability to accept the possibilities that abound around us. Some call it an aura, others faith .... whatever it is, it exists for me and that's all that matters in my little sphere. Take it for what it is worth. I've paused many times before hitting the submit button ... perhaps this will do someone some good. Good night. Rooster, Thank-you for your service, sacrifice, and great story. As a skeptic, there are several questions I would pose in relation to your story. Please understand they are in no way intended to diminish your experience, nor your Grandfather's suffering, but instead to demonstrate the kind of question skeptics would ask. If you choose not to respond, I respect that, after all, these were deep personal experiences for you. So there you were, in the Jungle, surrounded by Injuns, laying in a ditch, covered with unpleasant creapy crawlies. Was this a triple canopy? How hot was it? 120-130 degrees? How sleep deprived where you? How long had you been without food and water, and if you did find some water, I can only imagine what kind of nausties were in it, and I'm sure you were not making a fire to boil it before drinking? Some of those SA crawlie things can be pretty unpleasant, and maybe even have a little venom in their stings? How many days had you been running? How exhausted where you? And lets not forget, you were being chases by some very unpleasant guy who wanted to kill you. Wow, that just a phenomenal number of potential stressors all acting upon you at the same time. What are that changes that any one of these, or especially all of these acting upon your brain in concert, could cause an altered brain state. With everything that was affecting you, you could of told me you saw all the Saints, and all the figures of the Greek and Norse Mythos, and I would believe you. Just seeing your Grandad, you must have been pretty darned tough to hold things together that well, and escape with your life. I've never been through anything like that, nor do I care to, so I salute you. As for Mom, she knew you were in a dangerous job, and that you were over due. I wonder how much else she know that a skilled "psychic" could gather from a cold reading. As for the reference to water, you were in SA, of course you were going to run into a river along the way. As for dogs barking, I grew up around dogs as well. In general, if one starts they all start, and it usually doesn't take much to get them started. Around here several times a day, one dog will start, then every dog in the neighborhood has to join in. Although it's a touching story, and you have my empathy for your grandfather's suffering, I don't see how we can turn it into any kind of testable evidence. Thanks again for your great detailed reply. Of all the stories I've heard from believers so far, I like yours the best.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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bottom line is that conditions remain as they always were. that is: we don't know from whence we came, where we are, and least of all where we are headed next. I think the Great Mystery has taken all of our mindsets into consideration as the game moves forward.
or as some Buddhists are fond of saying: just keep paddling or swimming. the far shore is out there. Good day Gus. In regard to this comment above, you should probably just keep it in "first person singular." I don't even know what your comment means. but probably my daughter does, being a ph.d in language arts. but, she might not know either? besides listening to audibles in the background, I'm attempting to offer plausible discussion. my belief is that the combined greek & Egyptian theology is so in conflict with the Hebraic traditions that we might not ever find common agreement and solid ground. without considering the input of extraterrestrials as important components of humans advance forward we are leaving out important details of our past. from moving forward from cave man to visiting the moon, Mars and beyond is no small detail that shouldn't be overlooked. Sorry, I didn't mean to make it was obtuse. In your first statement in the quote here, you use, "'we' don't know from whence 'we' came or where 'we' are or where 'we' are going." That's not true of Christians. You assumed and then generalized liberally. I meant replace the "we" with an "I."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values. Hillary was raised Methodist. She was a member of the Senate Prayer group, and regularly attends Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington. Vladimir Putin is a Russian Orthodox Christian. That pair belongs to you, not the Atheist. lol. word on the street is that the Russian Orthodox Church is staunchly behind the Vlad man. but the question remains about consciouslness, specifically human consciousness and why and how can there be so many different gods over the aeons? why don't we just settle on one? jesus mohammed, Buddha,krishna, ganesh, Great Spirit, et.al. it doesn't matter all that much, as long as oxygen remains in the air. isn't one god about as good as another? Gus, lets assume for a moment there is a god. If he can't even effectively communicate his existence to us, he's not much of a god. As for all religions being equal, that's just bunk. The more wrong actions, and the more immoral actions a religion causes it's follower to commit, the worse the religion.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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" If he can't even effectively communicate his existence to us, he's not much of a god."
You could at least have given me credit for being the first, and most frequent, poster of those words on this forum.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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bottom line is that conditions remain as they always were. that is: we don't know from whence we came, where we are, and least of all where we are headed next. I think the Great Mystery has taken all of our mindsets into consideration as the game moves forward.
or as some Buddhists are fond of saying: just keep paddling or swimming. the far shore is out there. Good day Gus. In regard to this comment above, you should probably just keep it in "first person singular." I don't even know what your comment means. but probably my daughter does, being a ph.d in language arts. but, she might not know either? besides listening to audibles in the background, I'm attempting to offer plausible discussion. my belief is that the combined greek & Egyptian theology is so in conflict with the Hebraic traditions that we might not ever find common agreement and solid ground. without considering the input of extraterrestrials as important components of humans advance forward we are leaving out important details of our past. from moving forward from cave man to visiting the moon, Mars and beyond is no small detail that shouldn't be overlooked. Sorry, I didn't mean to make it was obtuse. In your first statement in the quote here, you use, "'we' don't know from whence 'we' came or where 'we' are or where 'we' are going." That's not true of Christians. You assumed and then generalized liberally. I meant replace the "we" with an "I." the first thing I have to do to respond is to recover the webpage. but, no apologies needed. I did take a course in English 101, but didn't follow up that much. I figure no one knows for sure, but I might be wrong? for those who do know, I wish they'd tell us more, and not quote a bunch of holy book words that has been translated more than once. Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values. Hillary was raised Methodist. She was a member of the Senate Prayer group, and regularly attends Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington. Vladimir Putin is a Russian Orthodox Christian. That pair belongs to you, not the Atheist. lol. word on the street is that the Russian Orthodox Church is staunchly behind the Vlad man. but the question remains about consciouslness, specifically human consciousness and why and how can there be so many different gods over the aeons? why don't we just settle on one? jesus mohammed, Buddha,krishna, ganesh, Great Spirit, et.al. it doesn't matter all that much, as long as oxygen remains in the air. isn't one god about as good as another? Gus, lets assume for a moment there is a god. If he can't even effectively communicate his existence to us, he's not much of a god. As for all religions being equal, that's just bunk. The more wrong actions, and the more immoral actions a religion causes it's follower to commit, the worse the religion. Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values. Hillary was raised Methodist. She was a member of the Senate Prayer group, and regularly attends Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington. Vladimir Putin is a Russian Orthodox Christian. That pair belongs to you, not the Atheist. lol. word on the street is that the Russian Orthodox Church is staunchly behind the Vlad man. but the question remains about consciouslness, specifically human consciousness and why and how can there be so many different gods over the aeons? why don't we just settle on one? jesus mohammed, Buddha,krishna, ganesh, Great Spirit, et.al. it doesn't matter all that much, as long as oxygen remains in the air. isn't one god about as good as another? Gus, lets assume for a moment there is a god. If he can't even effectively communicate his existence to us, he's not much of a god. As for all religions being equal, that's just bunk. The more wrong actions, and the more immoral actions a religion causes it's follower to commit, the worse the religion. there seems to be different qualities of religious understanding in your cosmos? and that may well be true. the North American Church has a devout following, but not a very large following. and that is fine, also.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Some say a a creator is a fallocy? No way can this universe just happen. It is impossible for a creature to figure out what to eat, when to eat, when or if to hibernate What to eat and when to procreate before it could go extinct. Imagine deer breeding in July. Imagine a fish going to spawn out i=of it's season. A catapiller knows just what to eat, when to make a cacoon and how to make it , to wait till spring to come out a butterfly just in time of season to lay eggs. If all this happened by chance it is one chance in 100's of trillion times. It is by all practical means impossible. Like cutting up a phone book in a million pieces, throwing it up in the air in hopes it will come back down in the same way before you cut it up. Aint gunna happen. And no, I don't believe atheists are more honest than christians. It may seem that way cause when a christian gets caught being dishonest it makes major headlines. When an atheist gets caught ,, the world just shrugs and sais, that is human nature and little is said cause it is expected. A case in point is a pastor is dishonest it is big news. When the CEO of Holly Madison gets caught being dishonest,,,,, it is expected.
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values. And then you have the Timothy McVeighs and Terry Nichols of the world. ... and ISIS, Al Qaeda, Jim Jones, Saul Alinsky, Lenin, Marx, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Attila, et al. What's your point? You're going to cite The Crusades next I suppose? Historically speaking, who has been perpetrated more mass genocide on this planet than any others ... I mean if we're talking sheer numbers? Religious people ... or non religious people? And what were the first steps to those non-religious people, those non-believers, the atheists ... what were their first steps undertaken before the mass genocides were perpetrated upon the people? As I mentioned before, Hitler was a Catholic, Stalin was a seminary student and head of the Russian Orthodox Church. Hirohito was worshiped as a god in Japan. The Rwanda Genocide was the work of Catholics. The Kosovo genocide was done by Orthodox Serbs. The 1915-1923 Armenian, massacre, and the Assyrian and Greek massacres were carried out by Muslims, All of your central African genocides were committed by religious people of one flavor or another, either Christian of Muslim. Technically all Marxist are supposed to be atheist, but does not Marxism itself resemble a religion with people still pilgrimaging to worship at the tomb of Lennin? If you want good people to do bad things, that takes religion.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
AS posted:
How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?
The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.”
This strikes me as being a very legitimate question. “How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?”
John 14:20 - Jesus speaking: “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
Also, John 14:17-18 - Jesus speaking: “.....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
There it is and it is simple. Once God has come to live within someone, they know it. They also begin to understand more about the truth.
TF
And there are scriptures from a thousand other religions that would disagree with your little quote.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
I love the outdoors and all it has to offer. However, when I enjoy the outdoors, or examine the night sky through a spotting scope, EVERYTHING I see can be explained by natural means without the need to invoke a creator. In general, this argument, depending on how it is made, falls under one of two fallacies, either the Argument from Ignorance, or the Argument from personal Incredulity.
Our world is amazing, wonderful and complex, but we can explain it all without invoking a creator.
Ironic and logical fallacy. Please read my earlier post in the Jesus Picture thread regarding the True Scotsman Fallacy. It seems to be a Christian favorite. Projectionism. Which is only a difference of opinion. Kent If I committed a logical fallacy, please name the specific fallacy, and explain where I am wrong. Explain the moment of life, it's inception and existence. Use facts and evidence that you possess, I'm glad there is finally someone who can explain it all. Kent
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Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values. Hillary was raised Methodist. She was a member of the Senate Prayer group, and regularly attends Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington. Vladimir Putin is a Russian Orthodox Christian. That pair belongs to you, not the Atheist. Well, maybe and maybe not. Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord." will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." TF Both Hillary and Putin claim they are Christians. Perhaps you just don't like Methodist and Russian Orthodox, and think they will all go to hell because they are not YOUR kind of Christian. That just goes back to what I said earlier about how most sects of Christians think all the others are going to hell.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
AS posted:
How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?
The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.”
This strikes me as being a very legitimate question. “How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?”
John 14:20 - Jesus speaking: “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
Also, John 14:17-18 - Jesus speaking: “.....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
There it is and it is simple. Once God has come to live within someone, they know it. They also begin to understand more about the truth.
TF
so, were humans (Adam & Eve) {24 hourcampfire is not responding}. true humans? I say they were. were they hybridized from space aliens and pre-human primates? I say they/we could have been. but, who's to know? what about this "truth" of which you speak? what does it tell you? can you share with the rank & file, or just quote scripture? inquiring minds would like to know. seriously, the Hebraic Tradition and the greek & egytian beliefs are so far apart that the twain shall never meet? Show us your evidence Gus. How about something peer reviewed, not some "history channel" episode of Ancient Aliens.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Putin and Hillary are great examples of living by Atheist values. And then you have the Timothy McVeighs and Terry Nichols of the world. ... and ISIS, Al Qaeda, Jim Jones, Saul Alinsky, Lenin, Marx, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Attila, et al. What's your point? You're going to cite The Crusades next I suppose? Historically speaking, who has been perpetrated more mass genocide on this planet than any others ... I mean if we're talking sheer numbers? Religious people ... or non religious people? And what were the first steps to those non-religious people, those non-believers, the atheists ... what were their first steps undertaken before the mass genocides were perpetrated upon the people? As I mentioned before, Hitler was a Catholic, Stalin was a seminary student and head of the Russian Orthodox Church. Hirohito was worshiped as a god in Japan. The Rwanda Genocide was the work of Catholics. The Kosovo genocide was done by Orthodox Serbs. The 1915-1923 Armenian, massacre, and the Assyrian and Greek massacres were carried out by Muslims, All of your central African genocides were committed by religious people of one flavor or another, either Christian of Muslim. Technically all Marxist are supposed to be atheist, but does not Marxism itself resemble a religion with people still pilgrimaging to worship at the tomb of Lennin? If you want good people to do bad things, that takes religion. well yeah. all of that is true enough. but if one isn't willing to die for their particular flavor or brand of god, what is that god good for, afterall? I'm not sayin' there ain't a god, but I am suggesting a lot of humanity has had difficulties in interpreting god. but life goes on, so there's still time to grapple with all of it. 
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
I love the outdoors and all it has to offer. However, when I enjoy the outdoors, or examine the night sky through a spotting scope, EVERYTHING I see can be explained by natural means without the need to invoke a creator. In general, this argument, depending on how it is made, falls under one of two fallacies, either the Argument from Ignorance, or the Argument from personal Incredulity.
Our world is amazing, wonderful and complex, but we can explain it all without invoking a creator.
Ironic and logical fallacy. Please read my earlier post in the Jesus Picture thread regarding the True Scotsman Fallacy. It seems to be a Christian favorite. Projectionism. Which is only a difference of opinion. Kent If I committed a logical fallacy, please name the specific fallacy, and explain where I am wrong. Explain the moment of life, it's inception and existence. Use facts and evidence that you possess, I'm glad there is finally someone who can explain it all. Kent Your post is likely to be "overlooked",Kent.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
AS posted:
How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?
The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.”
This strikes me as being a very legitimate question. “How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?”
John 14:20 - Jesus speaking: “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
Also, John 14:17-18 - Jesus speaking: “.....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
There it is and it is simple. Once God has come to live within someone, they know it. They also begin to understand more about the truth.
TF
so, were humans (Adam & Eve) {24 hourcampfire is not responding}. true humans? I say they were. were they hybridized from space aliens and pre-human primates? I say they/we could have been. but, who's to know? what about this "truth" of which you speak? what does it tell you? can you share with the rank & file, or just quote scripture? inquiring minds would like to know. seriously, the Hebraic Tradition and the greek & egytian beliefs are so far apart that the twain shall never meet? Show us your evidence Gus. How about something peer reviewed, not some "history channel" episode of Ancient Aliens. well, I'm coming up a bit short. I've searched the literature for a referenc to Adahmah, and Haveh (Adam & Eve) and whether they were created without belly buttons. so far, zilch, nada. in Genesis or elsewhere. so, my info is found lacking. so, no proof from me. but, do I believe they were hybridized and therefore not requiring belly buttons? it could be, couldn't it?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Some say a a creator is a fallocy? No way can this universe just happen. It is impossible for a creature to figure out what to eat, when to eat, when or if to hibernate What to eat and when to procreate before it could go extinct. Imagine deer breeding in July. Imagine a fish going to spawn out i=of it's season. A catapiller knows just what to eat, when to make a cacoon and how to make it , to wait till spring to come out a butterfly just in time of season to lay eggs. If all this happened by chance it is one chance in 100's of trillion times. It is by all practical means impossible. Like cutting up a phone book in a million pieces, throwing it up in the air in hopes it will come back down in the same way before you cut it up. Aint gunna happen. And no, I don't believe atheists are more honest than christians. It may seem that way cause when a christian gets caught being dishonest it makes major headlines. When an atheist gets caught ,, the world just shrugs and sais, that is human nature and little is said cause it is expected. A case in point is a pastor is dishonest it is big news. When the CEO of Holly Madison gets caught being dishonest,,,,, it is expected. I hooken, Let me help you gain a better understanding of both logic and evolution. The concept of a creator, in and of itself, is not a fallacy. In logic, a fallacy is a failure in reasoning that renders and argument invalid. Since you would form an argument to reach the conclusion a creator existed, the fallacies would lie in your argument. An exception I'm aware of is if you used a self contradictory definition of a creator, then there could be a fallacy in your definition, that would render your entire god concept void. As for your understanding of evolution, if you can say evolution is a matter of "chance", then you do not understand evolution. Within evolution, there is a selective force called "natural selection". So lets apply this concept to your examples: If a deer develops a taste for the wrong foods, it dies, and it's genes are eliminated from the gene pool. The same thing applies to deer who breed at the wrong time of year, fish who spawn at the wrong times, animals that hibernate at the wrong times, and caterpillars who eat the wrong things at the wrong times. Properly understood, evolution is the opposite of random change.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I love the outdoors and all it has to offer. However, when I enjoy the outdoors, or examine the night sky through a spotting scope, EVERYTHING I see can be explained by natural means without the need to invoke a creator. In general, this argument, depending on how it is made, falls under one of two fallacies, either the Argument from Ignorance, or the Argument from personal Incredulity.
Our world is amazing, wonderful and complex, but we can explain it all without invoking a creator.
Ironic and logical fallacy. Please read my earlier post in the Jesus Picture thread regarding the True Scotsman Fallacy. It seems to be a Christian favorite. Projectionism. Which is only a difference of opinion. Kent If I committed a logical fallacy, please name the specific fallacy, and explain where I am wrong. Explain the moment of life, it's inception and existence. Use facts and evidence that you possess, I'm glad there is finally someone who can explain it all. Kent What do you mean by "them moment of life". Would you please define that for me.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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AS said: How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one? The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about. Antelope Sniper, I know nothing of your worries but, particularly if you are an atheist, it is refreshing and even invigorating to see your above statement. Interesting that an atheist would be compelled to tell a Christian, maybe with some authority in his/her voice, that the Christian has a lot to worry about. It is refreshing and even invigorating to be reminded that I have no worries with regard to eternity and that there is nothing to be feared in this life on earth. No human mind/voice - no matter how presumptuously assertive - can affect that. Such peaceful freedom is precious beyond explanation. One of my hopes and wishes is that many others will seek, find and experience.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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AS posted:
How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one?
The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about.”
This strikes me as being a very legitimate question. “How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?”
John 14:20 - Jesus speaking: “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”
Also, John 14:17-18 - Jesus speaking: “.....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
There it is and it is simple. Once God has come to live within someone, they know it. They also begin to understand more about the truth.
TF
so, were humans (Adam & Eve) {24 hourcampfire is not responding}. true humans? I say they were. were they hybridized from space aliens and pre-human primates? I say they/we could have been. but, who's to know? what about this "truth" of which you speak? what does it tell you? can you share with the rank & file, or just quote scripture? inquiring minds would like to know. seriously, the Hebraic Tradition and the greek & egytian beliefs are so far apart that the twain shall never meet? Show us your evidence Gus. How about something peer reviewed, not some "history channel" episode of Ancient Aliens. well, I'm coming up a bit short. I've searched the literature for a referenc to Adahmah, and Haveh (Adam & Eve) and whether they were created without belly buttons. so far, zilch, nada. in Genesis or elsewhere. so, my info is found lacking. so, no proof from me. but, do I believe they were hybridized and therefore not requiring belly buttons? it could be, couldn't it? Why would you choose to believe everything that is possible? If you choose to believe everything that is possible, you must also believe that Adam and Eve never existed, because isn't that also possible?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
AS said: How can you claim to have nothing to worry about?
Out of all the tens of thousands of gods, and over 30 thousands sects of Christianity, how can you be so certain you've chose the correct one? The Muslims, Hindu's, Mormans, and Catholics all believe that unless you believe exactly like they do, you are going to hell to be tormented forever. When you add it all up, you changes of guessing correctly are about 1/40,000, so mathematically, you do have a lot to worry about. Antelope Sniper, I know nothing of your worries but, particularly if you are an atheist, it is refreshing and even invigorating to see your above statement. Interesting that an atheist would be compelled to tell a Christian, maybe with some authority in his/her voice, that the Christian has a lot to worry about. It is refreshing and even invigorating to be reminded that I have no worries with regard to eternity and that there is nothing to be feared in this life on earth. No human mind/voice - no matter how presumptuously assertive - can affect that. Such peaceful freedom is precious beyond explanation. One of my hopes and wishes is that many others will seek, find and experience. What if you are wrong?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 08/28/15.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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