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OP
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Is the OP being condescending?
I had thought when I was chastised for being a "driving away" force that maybe I was out of line on my trolling comment.
Guess not.
You guess wrong, R.. Condescending toward a true believer? No... Condescending toward irrational, illogical and just plain stupid arguments...bet your ass.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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OP
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Didnt you read my body of truth, He will allow no proof. Did you tell your father on earth show you proof. You deserve nothing. He offers you all for only faith, as a little child believes in its mother. So one again, you admit that you have NO evidence. If you god is unable to manifest himself in this world in a manner sufficient to prove any evidence for his existence, it's the same as him not existing at all. As for your "body of truth", that's nothing more them some blathering from a book for which you have not yet established a reason to believe. AS, No, the evidence of God’s existence is all around us. YOU just choose not to believe it. Others look at the evidence and see proof of God. YOU choose to ignore and disbelieve. You are not alone in this either. I have wondered about Judas. He was right there with Jesus, saw the miracles, heard him speak and yet chose to betray Him. How could that be? There are many examples of people in this world and in the Bible who have been confronted with God and confronted with the reality of God and yet reject and go their own way. So, the evidence? The universe, the earth, the laws of nature and all of creation. It did not just happen, It was created. The human body, DNA and the fact that we are self aware and intelligent (well the most part) beings. Also, it is clear that not only does God exist but HE does pursue us. God seems to be on my mind all the time. He is there on your mind. I;d wager there is not a human on earth that has not considered himself and his relationship to “god.” You made mention that God has not competently revealed himself to us. Not so at all. He came to earth to SHOW us Himself in the form of Jesus and the there is all the revelation one needs right there in the bible. But, you have set yourself up as the “Judge” and choose to reject. There is nothing new or novel in that. It seems to me that God pursues and many reject. Seems that HE wants those of voluntarily choose to follow Him. Those that respond to the call. You have not, at least not yet. So be it. TF TF, Could you get together with some of the other believers on is thread and 'synch' up your stories? You claim to see evidence and believe while others state only by believing first will the 'truth' be revealed. Be nice to know which group is being, ahem, dishonest? Thanks! 👍🏻
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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OP
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In keeping with the theme of the OP, here is a teaser for an excellent book/topic which many 'christians' would do well to ponder. I love how he labels it 'the idol of certainty'...  Faith isn't the absence of doubt--it's moving forward in spite of doubt. Those who claim to 'know beyond the shadow of a doubt' the unknowable are dishonest and disillusioned. They have brainwashed themselves... "There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds" -- Tennyson https://vimeo.com/71309372
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Campfire Ranger
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Which is worse to listen to... a christian who is an ex atheist or an atheist who is an ex christian?
Kent
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Campfire Tracker
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Which is worse to listen to... a christian who is an ex atheist or an atheist who is an ex christian?
Kent Depends if you are a fan of Ringman. IIRC, he self-described himself on several occasions as a Christian who is an ex-atheist.
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Campfire Ranger
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. If you can say that, you don't understand the nature of logic, reason, and evidence.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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MH posted:
TF,
Could you get together with some of the other believers on is thread and 'synch' up your stories?
You claim to see evidence and believe while others state only by believing first will the 'truth' be revealed.
Be nice to know which group is being, ahem, dishonest?
Thanks!
MH,
Well, no I won’t be synching with the other believers but your question seems appropriate so I will post some thoughts.
The evidence of God is as I have stated. One can call it proof or one can call it evidence. Does one believe the evidence or not? Does one accept the evidence or not. Simple really.
The other matter you bring up is a fascinating subject. Satan “believes” in the existence of God. I expect that Judas did also. There can be little doubt that King Saul “believed” in God. Yet, these mentioned were clearly not followers of God nor were they worshipers nor were they seeing God as their “lord” if you will.
So, a simple and even correct view that “God exists” is not enough. Satan and the fallen angels “believe.” The issue is whether or not one is known by God and is a follower of God and is “born of the spirit.”
If one “seeks” God, he will find. It is the seeking and the responding to the call of the Holy Spirit that transforms one from a simple “believer in the existence of God” to one is a follower of Jesus. In a simplistic way, it seems that God wants to us to choose Him within the freedoms of our will. He wants willing followers, those that seek Him. Those who seek will find.
It seems that if one is antagonistic toward the idea of god or the idea of the Savior that they are blinded and cannot understand or see what is on the pages of the Bible. This does not mean they cannot find Jesus. Paul was antagonistic but was summoned by Jesus on the Damascus road.
It does seem that the Word of God, the Bible is better understood through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. If one is not enlightened by the Holy Spirit, there seems to be a limit to understanding. Note there are those on this forum who believe the bible condones murder and incest. Bible wise??? Not.
I don’t know how to address the idea that some here are “honest” or not. May be semantics and it may be that some have a hard held bias that prevents them from seeing the truth in anything different from what they want to believe.
TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Didnt you read my body of truth, He will allow no proof. Did you tell your father on earth show you proof. You deserve nothing. He offers you all for only faith, as a little child believes in its mother. So one again, you admit that you have NO evidence. If you god is unable to manifest himself in this world in a manner sufficient to prove any evidence for his existence, it's the same as him not existing at all. As for your "body of truth", that's nothing more them some blathering from a book for which you have not yet established a reason to believe. AS, No, the evidence of God’s existence is all around us. YOU just choose not to believe it. Others look at the evidence and see proof of God. YOU choose to ignore and disbelieve. You are not alone in this either. I have wondered about Judas. He was right there with Jesus, saw the miracles, heard him speak and yet chose to betray Him. How could that be? There are many examples of people in this world and in the Bible who have been confronted with God and confronted with the reality of God and yet reject and go their own way. So, the evidence? The universe, the earth, the laws of nature and all of creation. It did not just happen, It was created. The human body, DNA and the fact that we are self aware and intelligent (well the most part) beings. Also, it is clear that not only does God exist but HE does pursue us. God seems to be on my mind all the time. He is there on your mind. I;d wager there is not a human on earth that has not considered himself and his relationship to “god.” You made mention that God has not competently revealed himself to us. Not so at all. He came to earth to SHOW us Himself in the form of Jesus and the there is all the revelation one needs right there in the bible. But, you have set yourself up as the “Judge” and choose to reject. There is nothing new or novel in that. It seems to me that God pursues and many reject. Seems that HE wants those of voluntarily choose to follow Him. Those that respond to the call. You have not, at least not yet. So be it. TF TF, Every last one of the "proofs" you mention that are all around us, are explained with a natural model that does not require the intervention of a God. In the words of LaPlace, I have no need for that Hypothesis. What you actually presented is just an argument from personal incredulity. As for Judas, according to the Gospel of Judas, he just did what Jesus asked of him. According to your dogma, without Jesus getting caught, there could of been no bloody human sacrifice. Or, he's just a common plot device you would find in any fictional drama. As for our laws of nature, they are descriptive, not prescriptive. You claim it is clear that God exists, but all you've offered is one fallacious argument, not exactly evidence. As for your assertion that God descended to earth as Jesus, where is your evidence? None of the Gospels are eye witness accounts. None are signed, we don't even know who wrote them. In addition, all that we have is copies of copies of copies, with the first full gospels dating to the 4th century CE. The earliest post card size fragment of a gospel dates to no earlier then 120 CE, at least 90 years after the alleged events, and could date 30-40 years later. Matthew is just a rewrite of Mark, and Luke is a rewrite of Matthew, and John was cobbled together from the writings of several different authors. The gospels take the form of common drama's written at the time, and borrow plot lines from earlier dying/rising cults, and story lines from the Old Testament. In the original 6 or 7 non-forged Pauling Epistles, Paul never makes a clear reference to an earthly Jesus nor places him on this earth. In addition, there is no independent non-biblical corroboration of the gospels from contemporary historians of the day. As for "judging", yes, unlike you, I choose to use my reason to evaluate the quality of the evidence for the claims that you make, and find the sum total of the evidence is zero. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.quotesvalley.com/images/21/is-god-willing-to-prevent-evil-but-not-able.jpg) AS, So, you look at the evidence of the universe and all that is in it and conclude that a "creator" is not necessary to explain it. I see the universe and all that is in it and conclude that a "prime mover" or "creator" must be responsible. It is that simple. No need for words ad nauseum. TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Didnt you read my body of truth, He will allow no proof. Did you tell your father on earth show you proof. You deserve nothing. He offers you all for only faith, as a little child believes in its mother. So one again, you admit that you have NO evidence. If you god is unable to manifest himself in this world in a manner sufficient to prove any evidence for his existence, it's the same as him not existing at all. As for your "body of truth", that's nothing more them some blathering from a book for which you have not yet established a reason to believe. AS, No, the evidence of God’s existence is all around us. YOU just choose not to believe it. Others look at the evidence and see proof of God. YOU choose to ignore and disbelieve. You are not alone in this either. I have wondered about Judas. He was right there with Jesus, saw the miracles, heard him speak and yet chose to betray Him. How could that be? There are many examples of people in this world and in the Bible who have been confronted with God and confronted with the reality of God and yet reject and go their own way. So, the evidence? The universe, the earth, the laws of nature and all of creation. It did not just happen, It was created. The human body, DNA and the fact that we are self aware and intelligent (well the most part) beings. Also, it is clear that not only does God exist but HE does pursue us. God seems to be on my mind all the time. He is there on your mind. I;d wager there is not a human on earth that has not considered himself and his relationship to “god.” You made mention that God has not competently revealed himself to us. Not so at all. He came to earth to SHOW us Himself in the form of Jesus and the there is all the revelation one needs right there in the bible. But, you have set yourself up as the “Judge” and choose to reject. There is nothing new or novel in that. It seems to me that God pursues and many reject. Seems that HE wants those of voluntarily choose to follow Him. Those that respond to the call. You have not, at least not yet. So be it. TF TF, Every last one of the "proofs" you mention that are all around us, are explained with a natural model that does not require the intervention of a God. In the words of LaPlace, I have no need for that Hypothesis. What you actually presented is just an argument from personal incredulity. As for Judas, according to the Gospel of Judas, he just did what Jesus asked of him. According to your dogma, without Jesus getting caught, there could of been no bloody human sacrifice. Or, he's just a common plot device you would find in any fictional drama. As for our laws of nature, they are descriptive, not prescriptive. You claim it is clear that God exists, but all you've offered is one fallacious argument, not exactly evidence. As for your assertion that God descended to earth as Jesus, where is your evidence? None of the Gospels are eye witness accounts. None are signed, we don't even know who wrote them. In addition, all that we have is copies of copies of copies, with the first full gospels dating to the 4th century CE. The earliest post card size fragment of a gospel dates to no earlier then 120 CE, at least 90 years after the alleged events, and could date 30-40 years later. Matthew is just a rewrite of Mark, and Luke is a rewrite of Matthew, and John was cobbled together from the writings of several different authors. The gospels take the form of common drama's written at the time, and borrow plot lines from earlier dying/rising cults, and story lines from the Old Testament. In the original 6 or 7 non-forged Pauling Epistles, Paul never makes a clear reference to an earthly Jesus nor places him on this earth. In addition, there is no independent non-biblical corroboration of the gospels from contemporary historians of the day. As for "judging", yes, unlike you, I choose to use my reason to evaluate the quality of the evidence for the claims that you make, and find the sum total of the evidence is zero. AS, So, you look at the evidence of the universe and all that is in it and conclude that a "creator" is not necessary to explain it. I see the universe and all that is in it and conclude that a "prime mover" or "creator" must be responsible. It is that simple. No need for words ad nauseum. TF Argument from personal incredulity, or Argument for Ignorance, yea, your position is just that simple. Your argument also include an a case of Special Pleading. This Universe is so complex it MUST have a creator, yet the complexity of the intelligence required to create the Universe, by your rules, would be so complex as to require a creator itself. As a result, by invoking Magic, you have not explained anything at all.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 09/02/15.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. Please provide the 'evidence' that the universe came into being on it's own, without any Divine input. Please provide the 'evidence' that prior to the Big Bang...when vast amounts of matter were contained in a very small space...that 'that' was just there on its own, without any Divine input.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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AS posted:
Argument from personal incredulity, or Argument for Ignorance, yea, your position is just that simple.
Your argument also include an a case of Special Pleading.
This Universe is so complex it MUST have a creator, yet the complexity of the intelligence required to create the Universe, by your rules, would be so complex as to require a creator itself. As a result, by invoking Magic, you have not explained anything at all.
[i][/i]
AS,
EXACTLY! It is YOU!
An argument from personal incredulity: Asserting because one finds something difficult to understand it can’t be true.
You find it difficult to accept or understand the idea of “god” so you dismiss it.
Then you go on: An argument from ignorance: It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false.
You assert that because you see no satisfactory proof of a creator then there must be a “natural” explanation for the universe, but you don’t know what it is!
TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. If you can say that, you don't understand the nature of logic, reason, and evidence. Please provide the 'evidence' that the universe came into bring on it's own, without any Divine input. Please provide the 'evidence' that prior to the Big Bang...when vast amounts of matter were contained in a very small space...that 'that' was just there on its own, without any Divine input. Let me show you how silly your proposition is. Prove it wasn't fairies, or a pink unicorn, Russel's tea pot, or a magical ham sandwich that created the Universe. I'm not taking your burden of proof. If you want to prove the Universe is the result of a god, be my guest, present your evidence. In over 700 posts, the most any theist has yet to come up with is "look out side". I doubt you will do any better. Currently we have models that explain the origins of the universe to within 10^-43 seconds after the beginning of the event. We even have hypothetical models we are working on the explain the beginning of the event. If you want to learn about one of the current leading models, here's a good place to start: A Universe from Nothing. Furthermore, even if you could dis-prove all of current cosmology, you would still have all your work in front of you, because that you do nothing to prove you proposition of a divine creator, and you would have even more work ahead of you if you were to attempt to connect him to the Christian religion. I may now know what happened at 10^-44 seconds after the beginning of the event, but that in no way justifies your claim that your magic friend did it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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AS posted:
Argument from personal incredulity, or Argument for Ignorance, yea, your position is just that simple.
Your argument also include an a case of Special Pleading.
This Universe is so complex it MUST have a creator, yet the complexity of the intelligence required to create the Universe, by your rules, would be so complex as to require a creator itself. As a result, by invoking Magic, you have not explained anything at all.
[i][/i]
AS,
EXACTLY! It is YOU!
An argument from personal incredulity: Asserting because one finds something difficult to understand it can’t be true.
You find it difficult to accept or understand the idea of “god” so you dismiss it.
Then you go on: An argument from ignorance: It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false.
You assert that because you see no satisfactory proof of a creator then there must be a “natural” explanation for the universe, but you don’t know what it is!
TF
That's a whole lot more honest then claiming "it was magic", but that kind of goes back to the OP, doesn't it?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. If you can say that, you don't understand the nature of logic, reason, and evidence. Please provide the 'evidence' that the universe came into bring on it's own, without any Divine input. Please provide the 'evidence' that prior to the Big Bang...when vast amounts of matter were contained in a very small space...that 'that' was just there on its own, without any Divine input. Let me show you how silly your proposition is. Prove it wasn't fairies, or a pink unicorn, Russel's tea pot, or a magical ham sandwich that created the Universe. I'm not taking your burden of proof. If you want to prove the Universe is the result of a god, be my guest, present your evidence. In over 700 posts, the most any theist has yet to come up with is "look out side". I doubt you will do any better. Currently we have models that explain the origins of the universe to within 10^-43 seconds after the beginning of the event. We even have hypothetical models we are working on the explain the beginning of the event. If you want to learn about one of the current leading models, here's a good place to start: A Universe from Nothing. Furthermore, even if you could dis-prove all of current cosmology, you would still have all your work in front of you, because that you do nothing to prove you proposition of a divine creator, and you would have even more work ahead of you if you were to attempt to connect him to the Christian religion. I may now know what happened at 10^-44 seconds after the beginning of the event, but that in no way justifies your claim that your magic friend did it. Oh boy, the "Universe from Nothing" nonsense again. I encourage all reading this to see this: https://vimeo.com/46564204TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Mojo,
Many people go through life and seem to completely miss at least one thing, maybe more.
Some others think they know everything - you can classify those as fools.
Only thing I can tell for sure about you is you like to argue, which probably seems to you as winning arguements, otherwise you wouldn't be trying so hard.
Sorry you were talking about honesty, and that is an expensive ordeal.
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Campfire Ranger
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. Please provide the 'evidence' that the universe came into bring on it's own, without any Divine input. Please provide the 'evidence' that prior to the Big Bang...when vast amounts of matter were contained in a very small space...that 'that' was just there on its own, without any Divine input. I may not know what happened at 10^-44 seconds after the beginning of the event, but that in no way justifies your claim that your magic friend did it. All you had to say was that you have NO EVIDENCE...the 'evidence' that you boasted about having and speaking so highly of in your first response to my initial post above. That's all you had to say...was that you have no 'evidence'. You do have 'faith' though...as I described in my initial post above.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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AS posted:
Argument from personal incredulity, or Argument for Ignorance, yea, your position is just that simple.
Your argument also include an a case of Special Pleading.
This Universe is so complex it MUST have a creator, yet the complexity of the intelligence required to create the Universe, by your rules, would be so complex as to require a creator itself. As a result, by invoking Magic, you have not explained anything at all.
[i][/i]
AS,
EXACTLY! It is YOU!
An argument from personal incredulity: Asserting because one finds something difficult to understand it can’t be true.
You find it difficult to accept or understand the idea of “god” so you dismiss it.
Then you go on: An argument from ignorance: It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false.
You assert that because you see no satisfactory proof of a creator then there must be a “natural” explanation for the universe, but you don’t know what it is!
TF
That's a whole lot more honest then claiming "it was magic", but that kind of goes back to the OP, doesn't it? Nope, just shows your hard set bias. btw, what is honest about Larry Krauss and the "Universe from Nothing" business. He is a book seller. Not exactly honest when he says the universe comes from "nothing." What does he start with and how did the "starter" come to existence? Isn't he the one who made a name for himself by "proving" that the universe was "curved" and therefore would expand and contract then burst again in a never ending cycle? Now is seems that most astrophysicists see our universe as expanding, linear and there is NOT a never ending cycle. TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. If you can say that, you don't understand the nature of logic, reason, and evidence. Please provide the 'evidence' that the universe came into bring on it's own, without any Divine input. Please provide the 'evidence' that prior to the Big Bang...when vast amounts of matter were contained in a very small space...that 'that' was just there on its own, without any Divine input. Let me show you how silly your proposition is. Prove it wasn't fairies, or a pink unicorn, Russel's tea pot, or a magical ham sandwich that created the Universe. I'm not taking your burden of proof. If you want to prove the Universe is the result of a god, be my guest, present your evidence. In over 700 posts, the most any theist has yet to come up with is "look out side". I doubt you will do any better. Currently we have models that explain the origins of the universe to within 10^-43 seconds after the beginning of the event. We even have hypothetical models we are working on the explain the beginning of the event. If you want to learn about one of the current leading models, here's a good place to start: A Universe from Nothing. Furthermore, even if you could dis-prove all of current cosmology, you would still have all your work in front of you, because that you do nothing to prove you proposition of a divine creator, and you would have even more work ahead of you if you were to attempt to connect him to the Christian religion. I may now know what happened at 10^-44 seconds after the beginning of the event, but that in no way justifies your claim that your magic friend did it. Oh boy, the "Universe from Nothing" nonsense again. I encourage all reading this to see this: https://vimeo.com/46564204TF Where did God come from?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
Faith is required for either Christisnity 'or' Atheism. If one chooses to believe that this incredible universe came together on its own, without any Divine input, well 'that' requires a whole lot more faith than some Christian believers can come up with. Put another way...lotsa folks don't have enough 'faith' to be an Atheist. You are just wrong. Following the evidence requires no faith at all. If you can say that, you don't understand the nature of logic, reason, and evidence. Please provide the 'evidence' that the universe came into bring on it's own, without any Divine input. Please provide the 'evidence' that prior to the Big Bang...when vast amounts of matter were contained in a very small space...that 'that' was just there on its own, without any Divine input. Let me show you how silly your proposition is. Prove it wasn't fairies, or a pink unicorn, Russel's tea pot, or a magical ham sandwich that created the Universe. I'm not taking your burden of proof. If you want to prove the Universe is the result of a god, be my guest, present your evidence. In over 700 posts, the most any theist has yet to come up with is "look out side". I doubt you will do any better. Currently we have models that explain the origins of the universe to within 10^-43 seconds after the beginning of the event. We even have hypothetical models we are working on the explain the beginning of the event. If you want to learn about one of the current leading models, here's a good place to start: A Universe from Nothing. Furthermore, even if you could dis-prove all of current cosmology, you would still have all your work in front of you, because that you do nothing to prove you proposition of a divine creator, and you would have even more work ahead of you if you were to attempt to connect him to the Christian religion. I may now know what happened at 10^-44 seconds after the beginning of the event, but that in no way justifies your claim that your magic friend did it. Oh boy, the "Universe from Nothing" nonsense again. I encourage all reading this to see this: https://vimeo.com/46564204TF What a comical, silly video. All it does is show how Colbert is too lazy to read his guest's books. William Lane Craig....really? I was expecting something from a Physicist that would actually dispute the argument.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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