Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are Atheists more honest than Christians?

Disregarding what you term a "threat", and disregarding the hereafter, a sound position is...regardless of anything else...that if one follows His teachings, one will have a better life. The 'peace that passes all understandings' fills a God shaped void in many people's lives that can't be filled by anything else.

Gus, what you've just demonstrated is that gods are a man made construct, and they evolve and change as we do.

As for there only being 3 God, there are still 5 major religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, with many offshoot of each of the above.

But what about the apes?

I fail to see how my life would be any better following a fairy tale. I fail to see how that would help me believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible?

In this country, religious fundamentalist have the lowest level of education and the lowest income, and that's before they give 10% of it away. Look at all the time lost as well. What would be the next best thing you could do with this time? In economics this is called an "opportunity cost".

But, I guess some people just want the blue pill.

Let's disregard that you ignored my terminology and inferred terminology I never expressed... again...

So believing in God, though anyone intelligent will admit they can't know everything of God or much really, is fine until proven falsified?

Kent

That's called Pascals wager, which I've already debunked earlier on this thread.
At the very least Christians do loose something if there is no God. They lost 10% of their wages, and didn't get to sleep in on Sunday. [/quote]
Some believe that Atheists...along with those who are not disciples of Jesus...will likely lose a whole lot more than 'that' if and when they find out that there is a God...and there is a Jesus...and what He said about Himselff is true. [/quote]

And what do you loose if you get the the pearly gates and you are greeted by Joseph Smith, or Muhammad, or one of the other thousands of gods that have existed?

As you can see, Pascals Wager is also a false dichotomy wrapped in a threat. [/quote]

we're steadily narrowing down the numbers though. the Greeks had about 100 until the successful input of the early Xtians reduced it down to 3. that's quite an accomplishment right there, I'm sure you will agree.[/quote]

Gus, what you've just demonstrated is that gods are a man made construct, and they evolve and change as we do.

As for there only being 3 God, there are still 5 major religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, with many offshoot of each of the above. [/quote]

yeah, true. but I was thinking of the Christian trinity of gods reducing the number of Athenian gods down to three from over one hundred. we still have to deal with the multiple gods of the Hindus. I kinda like Lord Ganesha myself. but, also, Buddha sects and Muslim sects. the Judastic God seems to be on the verge of leaving out? so, if that happens, there'll be one less of'em.

Is it "fine", well, without evidence it's not logical. In addition, is there any way your God CAN be falsified?

Of course, if your religion impelled you to give all your money and your best rifles to me, I'd be "fine" with that.

there comes a point, when folks could just trade cell numbes, and hash out their arguments on the phone. At this point, we are literally arguing 'how many angles will fit on the head of a pin'. Ridiculous.

AS, I am an agnostic that made a leap of faith one day. Honestly, I still do not have answer to the the question "does God exist", but I did find both a sense of peace and purpose by simple saying "I believe" one day. I believe in the idea of God, but not religion. My faith is based on a belief of something greater than myself rather than any book that was written long ago.

The way I see it we can choose to live a world where survival of the fittest rules, or a world in which men are humbled by the possible existence of God. I would rather live in a world where men are humbled rather than one where might makes right.

One thing I will say about science, given what we have learned about the size, age and scope of the universe, should God exist beyond our imagination then God is truly much greater and grander than we have ever imagined.

I'm fine with math/science saying infinity is real without proof... and God infinite without the same proof.

I also claim you can't separate or 'secular' science from God. How do you use part of yourself to denounce yourself.

If you can falsify infinity then you can God.

Have at it.

Kent

Bassman,

You bring up a very good question, one I would like to address.

What does it mean to be "fittest". Many people view this as a singular tough individual, but I have to disagree.

Evolution is actually about the survival of the fittest POPULATIONS, not the fittest individuals. Afterall, and individual cannot evolve, their DNA is set before they are born.

If we apply the principles of Economics to population fitness, and understand the benefits of specialization and the division of labor. The general rule of thumb is that every time a population increases 10x, the overall productivity of the individuals increases by 10%. So on a per person basis, a community of 100 people using division of labor, specialization and free trade will be 21% more productive then a lone individual.

The implications of this are very clear. It is not the rugged individual that is "the fittest", but populations that become socialized and work in concert employing division of labor, specialization, and largely free trade.

As for something greater then ourselves, there are many thing greater then us. Our families, our country, humanity, and the Universe.

A person can be humble without a belief in a god. I appreciate you admitting your beliefs are based on faith, and not evidence.

Have a good weekend.

Kent just because you can define something is such a way that it can exist, doesn't actually mean it does exist. Infinity is a mathematical concept, and a very strange one at that. In many math equations, you won't actually use infinity, instead you will use the limit as you approach infinity....

As for your attempt to define God as infinite, you first need to demonstrate:

1. That God exists.
2. That God is infinite
3. That God is "part of us".

Oh, and a definition of your God would be nice as well.

Your hand waving does nothing to forward the discussion.

We are no where close to angles on a pinhead.

probably not. dancing angels on the head of a pin, now there's something one can sink their teeth into. but how many can dance on the head of a pin at once?

but more seriously, in terms of this world in which we find ourselves, more or less, what is the major differences in outcome for this ecosystem, given the worship of god, or the non-worship of a possible god...whether said god is real or man-made.

would humans be better off recognizing a given God, or would humans be better off recognizing that no such God exists? which road would be best for humanity to travel from this point forward? anyone know for sure?

How many angels on a pinhead? Depends on how many joints you've smoked.

As for which is better, answer this simple questions. Which will cause a person to have more correct beliefs, and fewer wrong beliefs. Following science and logic, or a fairy tale?

There is no logic involved in faith......


One side uses that as an argument "for" and the other side uses the same argument "against"...

The only thing Ingwe has faith in is the infallible .270 Winchester.

Evolution in itself is a broad descriptive term used in many ways. We all can agree that animals have changed over time, with time being relative to the situation, and have "evolved". No one can debate that. Survival of the fittest passes on genetics, and genetic traits become recessive or dominant and are either expressed in the individuals or are suppressed in individuals. We have scientific proof of that. I have even seen it with my own eyes in my hospitals microbiology lab while studying drug resistance in bacteria.

What we do not have proof of, and what is only a hypothesis or theory, whichever you will, is that human life evolved from a Big Bang and single cell life forms to what we are today.

As far as I am aware cro-magnun and Neanderthal barely overlap in existence on earth. So how does cro-mag evolve from them with no DNA sequence to support that. Fossil records have only left us with more unanswered questions. I say this to say then from what or where did they evolve. The simple answer is we don't know. And scientist do not agree on where they started. Some say Central Asia, some Africa, some say spaceships. Even after analyzing the same DNA hundreds of times. Who knows.

Point being when you say proof of evolution, you must be more descriptive of what "evolution" you are referring to. Cause Big Bang and single cell to multicellular evolution are not fact nor have they been proven or replicated by science to date.

All you have to say is you don't believe in God, I'll believe you.

The projection of handwaving is ironic as that's all you do, beyond saying you don't believe in God. Even from a baptized ex christian.

The theory that God exists is as valid as a theory that life started on it's own... prove one falsify the other.

Kent

Now that's funny right there!

Although given the typical political or conspiracy thread in the Freakshow one would have to conclude that Hell does have many levels...Dante style!