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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6 |
I'm ready to confess and be sentenced, But what is my crime ??
Bill: First, I'm not "very old." Second, it does not take "meticulous scrutiny" to find the doublespeak and contradictions in your posts, they're blatant and obvious. Your "crime" is in posting erroneous information. If you can't accept being corrected, best to move on.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,004 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,004 Likes: 1 |
But first, if some spoilers had actually read my original post I was responding to the question posed, by invitation, from the person who started this thread, they would have seen that I had interjected lots of conditions and scenarios about various guns.
As always and particularly on this forum, some people seem to think that one size fits all.
Bill: When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to throw away the shovel. Through your statements quoted above, you've gone beyond losing all credibility; you've taken it into the realm of the absurd given your broad brush, unqualified statements from your first post: A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
........
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it. So do us all a favor, admit you were wrong, and quit digging. Smoke: You're right in your world and context. Absolutely. I really like the aspect of very old and very experienced posters meticulously scrutinizing everything and exposing the false, disingenuous, information. Including mine. I'm ready to confess and be sentenced, But what is my crime ?? I don't weasel around duck and dodge. _____________________________________________________ You must be some kind of Kalifornia Transplant, because you certainly don't know enough about guns to be from Wyoming.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,900 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,900 Likes: 1 |
You must be some kind of Kalifornia Transplant, because you certainly don’t know enough about guns to be from Wyoming.
I’m thinking he’s Larry Root’s hydrocephalic brother.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 918
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 918 |
Three day weekend and learned three new words. My head will explode and become dehydrated at this rate as opposed to being hydrocephalus. Even used one in a sentence. BEER TIME!
No fear, no doubt, all in, balls out.
"America"
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6 |
Dude, it's your birthday, it's way past beer time.
Happy Birthday!
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,149 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,149 Likes: 2 |
Dirt;
sorry but I just do not know what you are talking about. You haven't been around long enough to understand that post. Most Fire contributors know exactly what I posted. So, your new to the Fire status is something you need to keep in mind. DF
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,626
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,626 |
I don't weasel around duck and dodge. But you do a purty good dickweasel. Was in your area last week, was in Elizabeth seeing some friends. Really thinking about moving around there after I retire from the Army Feb 2017. Thread derail over!
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6 |
Don't get a place near Don's. There's no good coyote hunting or prairie dog shooting within miles of that place.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1 |
Dirt;
sorry but I just do not know what you are talking about. You haven't been around long enough to understand that post. Most Fire contributors know exactly what I posted. So, your new to the Fire status is something you need to keep in mind. DF hes not new to the fire, he was doing this same schitt ten years ago.... went away and came back.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,514
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,514 |
its my serial number, Ill block it if I choose to.
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,149 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,149 Likes: 2 |
Dirt;
sorry but I just do not know what you are talking about. You haven't been around long enough to understand that post. Most Fire contributors know exactly what I posted. So, your new to the Fire status is something you need to keep in mind. DF hes not new to the fire, he was doing this same schitt ten years ago.... went away and came back. He's just a Troll, then. If he's been here, even on and off, for 10 years, how could he not know about Stick/Boxer. You just don't forget Stick...  "Went away and came back"... How can we be so lucky... DF
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,767
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,767 |
#1. The touted GCA 1968 law requiring that all guns needed a serial number was preceded by a 1938 Federal Firearms act. The 1938 act required rifles to be stamped with serial numbers. Prior to that date serial numbers were by manufacturers option and all of the serious ones did number their guns and some even numbered individual parts. .22 caliber and shotguns didn't need serial numbers until 1968.
#2. If not MOST, then many JC Higgins Sears Roebuck .22 caliber rifles didn't have serial numbers. Sears farmed out the manufacturing of their guns to numerous manufacturers. A model number appeared on each gun and it identified the company that manufactured the gun for Sears. There were numerous well known manufacturers, Americans, as well as Mauser. The Mauser pirates counterfeiting, that I alluded to, occurred at the close of WW11 when Mauser was dismembered and the equipment hauled off to other countries one of which was Serbia.
#3. As to your gun without serial number, to determine if it is legal or illegal depends on caliber and date of manufacture. If it is post 1968 illegal. If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 illegal. If it is pre 1938, without serial number, probably legal. If the serial number was effaced - illegal - a felony. Some sentences were 5 years and $10,000 fine. Again, I covered this in my original post here but it apparently was too brief, or not sufficiently explanatory and lacked detail for some to absorb and for that I am sorry.
Bill It hurts to see somebody work that hard to avoid admitting they were wrong... AND STILL GETTING IT WRONG. Sorry Bill. 1938 law didn't require serial numbers on squat. Just made it illegal to obliterate any that existed. The F.F.A. regulations did not require serial numbers on firearms (necessary to identify a particular gun as having been the subject of a transaction) until 1958, and then exempted .22-caliber rifles from the serial number requirement. Or: https://books.google.com/books?id=G...URaSCh15TgQI#v=onepage&q&f=false In 1958, new Federal regulations were adopted that extended the record-keeping period from 6 to 10 years after a firearm sales transaction and that required manufacturers' serial numbers on all firearms except .22 caliber rifles
Last edited by Calhoun; 09/05/15.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,800
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,800 |
William_E_Tibbe- In my previous post, I asked you to cite the New Jersey state or local statutes that make it a crime to take possession of a serial-numberless pre-68 J.C.Higgins 22 rifle, as opposed to one with a serial number. The ONLY pertinent part of your reply to this request was this: ... When the gun arrives without a serial number that's when the fun begins with the Ringwood police. ... , either state or municipal, support the Ringwood police in their "fun"? Are you stating that they are enforcing some law? What is that law? Some further notes on your response: #1. The touted GCA 1968 law requiring that all guns needed a serial number was preceded by a 1938 Federal Firearms act. The 1938 act required rifles to be stamped with serial numbers. Prior to that date serial numbers were by manufacturers option and all of the serious ones did number their guns and some even numbered individual parts. .22 caliber and shotguns didn't need serial numbers until 1968. You're wrong. The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 did not require rifles to be stamped with a serial number. The 1938 act is given in its entirety here: [color:#0000FF]1938 Federal Firearms Act[/color] The only reference to serial numbers in that act is a prohibition against transporting or possessing a firearm from which the serial number has been removed, obliterated, or altered. (Section 2, subdivision (i)). If you can provide one or more references indicating that the 1938 law DID require a serial number on rifles, I'd appreciate your posting it, and will apologize for doubting you. #2. If not MOST, then many JC Higgins Sears Roebuck .22 caliber rifles didn't have serial numbers. Sears farmed out the manufacturing of their guns to numerous manufacturers. A model number appeared on each gun and it identified the company that manufactured the gun for Sears. There were numerous well known manufacturers, Americans, as well as Mauser. The Mauser pirates counterfeiting, that I alluded to, occurred at the close of WW11 when Mauser was dismembered and the equipment hauled off to other countries one of which was Serbia. I was pretty much aware of this, which is the reason for the description in my first post of this thread, giving an approximate date of manufacture and the identify of the manufacturer. #3. As to your gun without serial number, to determine if it is legal or illegal depends on caliber and date of manufacture. If it is post 1968 illegal. If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 illegal. If it is pre 1938, without serial number, probably legal. If the serial number was effaced - illegal - a felony. Some sentences were 5 years and $10,000 fine. Again, I covered this in my original post here but it apparently was too brief, or not sufficiently explanatory and lacked detail for some to absorb and for that I am sorry. " If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 [possession is] illegal." Again, this is a factually incorrect statement. Your paragraph #3 is only in the context of federal law. Before 1968, federal law did not require US manufacturers to apply serial numbers for rifles and shotguns not regulated by the 1934 NFA, regardless of caliber or gauge. (Again, if one exists, an authoritative contrary reference would be appreciated.) I'll await your citation of the New Jersey law that requires serial numbers on rifles made before 1968. --Bob
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 362
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 362 |
Question on Serial Numbers.
If I purchase a 80% stripped lower receiver, and later finish it, I assume that it would not require a serial number as long as I'm not selling it commercially. However, if I later try to sell it to another private citizen, would that transaction be legal?
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670 |
This whole thing about guns with no serial number is just beyond absurd.
As it turns out primarily guns without serial numbers are overwhelmingly those marketed by Sears Roebuck under the name JC Higgins. And those were reputed to be mostly .22 caliber. Sears stopped marketing guns in 1962.
Numerous American manufacturer provided guns to Sears. Sears didn't make guns, they only sold them under their brand name. You would not actually know who the real manufacturer was.
The manufacturer used serial numbers on their guns made and sold by them. It was first a manufacturing/inventory control procedure and second a way to know how many guns were actually produced.
I don't know if the manufacturers kept an internal log or accounting of guns made for Sears/JC Higgins but I would surmise that they did. They probably didn't want their own production run serial numbers co-mingled with the Sears guns.
When we talk about building mountains out of mole hills this is a colossal example. It all boils down to predominantly one marketer - Sears/JC Higgins and principally one caliber .22 rim fire.
All of the kibitzers , interlopers that get their jolly's sniping and making mean spirited insults belong in one particular class. When you look at any given thread the numbers of "views" are huge compared to the actual count of respondents. That means that the majority are lurkers who read but don't actually post. Thus the numbers of kibitzers/interlopers is really very small.
That's the way it has been for as far back as I can remember. It's that segment of the population that has been around and always will be.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 362
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 362 |
Add Winchester model 37, single shot shotguns to the no serial number list. I went nuts trying to find one on my gun, only to find out they didn't put serial numbers on them.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
This whole thing about guns with no serial number is just beyond absurd.
As it turns out primarily guns without serial numbers are overwhelmingly those marketed by Sears Roebuck under the name JC Higgins. And those were reputed to be mostly .22 caliber. Sears stopped marketing guns in 1962.
Just quit already. I well remember Sears catalogs listing guns into the 70s as well as guns in stores. (I don't remember anything about guns in 1962 other than that my dad seemed to be a crackshot with his Model 62 Winchester.) Ted Williams guns didn't come around until the J.C. Higgins moniker was dropped anyway. Google is quite easy to use BTW: http://www.searsarchives.com/products/questions/firearms/ted_williams_rifle.htm
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I had a Remington 552 without a serial number. That's one that stands out. I've owned a few others, including shotguns. I've never owned a 'Sears' brand firearm in my life either.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I had a Pioneer single shot .22, no serial no.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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