I see pictures all the time with the serial number blocked out or people putting XXX at the end so as to not say it's actual serial number. Why? Are people that paranoid that the government is going to track down their guns?
I see pictures all the time with the serial number blocked out or people putting XXX at the end so as to not say it's actual serial number. Why? Are people that paranoid that the government is going to track down their guns?
No, just that people realize there are dicks in the world. Lets say I consider you a [bleep]. I see a gun you have a photo of and for fun I report a gun being stolen, here's the serial number. It gets entered into the system.
You sell the gun, gun is checked and is listed as stolen. People can do it for insurance fraud.
People can also try to sell your gun.
Lets say you post 14 pics of your NEWLY bought Smith & Wesson Model 29, along with serial number.
I lift the pictures, along with the serial number and post it on Gunbroker. Some guy sends me a check for a gun I don't own. I now 'disappear' and he's looking for me and his money.
Oh, but they have the serial number so maybe the cops can track it down.
Hey, serial number XYX was sent to Joe's Gunshop in Mooseballs, WI. Lets go there. He, Fred at Joe's Gunshop shows the gun was sold to YOU. Cops show up at door wondering why you took money for gun you never sold, something like fraud or something. Sure, you didn't do any of that, the guy that thought you a dick did.
But guess what, the problem is now in your lap.
I've never seen the serial number of a gun enhancing photos. I do know of the Gunbroker type scam happening.
If you want to post them, post them, I don't give a shiet. Just like you shouldn't give a sheit if I don't want to post pics of the serial numbers.
Nevertheless, Steelhead makes very good points; you don't need those numbers getting broadcast anymore than you'd want your driver license number posted all over.
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned. A home made gun for self us can.
Over the years there were several reasons for not having a serial number but most date back a long time. Chinese and Iranian guns have ben found by the case ALL with the same number.
My memory is a little fuzzy about German Mauser's that apparently were being counterfeited by bandit operators.
There have been some cases on record about replicas or antiques that didn't have numbers.
It may be possible that some estate guns had missing numbers, so I heard.
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
Maybe disquieting to the crooks but the experts can retrieve filed off serial numbers by some high tech science. ___________________________________________________________
However, if we are speaking about blocking out the numbers on a photo, as opposed to removing it from the weapon, that doesn't constitute a crime unless the intent is to hoodwink someone, commit some misrepresentation or fraud.
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
Wrong. Really wrong. Serial numbers weren't required until the Gun Control Act of 1968 came about. Millions upon millions of firearms were manufactured before that. Some had serial numbers but most of the lower priced ones did not. They were all "grandfathered" under the act and all, even without serial numbers, are currently legal to own.
There are a lot of little pricks that sit around a computer in their momma's basement that love to screw with people just because they can. In the last 8 years I've been the victim of identity theft twice and stolen credit card numbers twice. I'm still trying to fix the identity theft issue from 2007 where some prick in Columbus Ohio stole my social security number and had a phone turned on in my name.
What Steelhead posted is a valid problem. There are enough losers out there that will do something like that just because they're bored. There doesn't have to be any real reason behind it, it's just that they're losers and want to screw with someone that day. I've had enough of it happen to me that I don't want to risk it. It's the reason that you'll never see me post a photo of myself, my family, my vehicles license plates, or anything that can identify where I live on the internet.
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned. A home made gun for self us can.
Over the years there were several reasons for not having a serial number but most date back a long time. Chinese and Iranian guns have ben found by the case ALL with the same number.
My memory is a little fuzzy about German Mauser's that apparently were being counterfeited by bandit operators.
There have been some cases on record about replicas or antiques that didn't have numbers.
It may be possible that some estate guns had missing numbers, so I heard.
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
Maybe disquieting to the crooks but the experts can retrieve filed off serial numbers by some high tech science. ___________________________________________________________
However, if we are speaking about blocking out the numbers on a photo, as opposed to removing it from the weapon, that doesn't constitute a crime unless the intent is to hoodwink someone, commit some misrepresentation or fraud.
You have got to be about the most stupid SOB on the 'Fire. I don't believe you've ever posted anything that's remotely correct or that you read in a Field and Stream article
No, just that people realize there are dicks in the world. Lets say I consider you a [bleep]. I see a gun you have a photo of and for fun I report a gun being stolen, here's the serial number. It gets entered into the system.
You sell the gun, gun is checked and is listed as stolen. People can do it for insurance fraud.
People can also try to sell your gun.
Lets say you post 14 pics of your NEWLY bought Smith & Wesson Model 29, along with serial number.
I lift the pictures, along with the serial number and post it on Gunbroker. Some guy sends me a check for a gun I don't own. I now 'disappear' and he's looking for me and his money.
Oh, but they have the serial number so maybe the cops can track it down.
Hey, serial number XYX was sent to Joe's Gunshop in Mooseballs, WI. Lets go there. He, Fred at Joe's Gunshop shows the gun was sold to YOU. Cops show up at door wondering why you took money for gun you never sold, something like fraud or something. Sure, you didn't do any of that, the guy that thought you a dick did.
But guess what, the problem is now in your lap.
I've never seen the serial number of a gun enhancing photos. I do know of the Gunbroker type scam happening.
If you want to post them, post them, I don't give a shiet. Just like you shouldn't give a sheit if I don't want to post pics of the serial numbers.
This is precisely why I do not post the entire S/N.
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
Wrong. Really wrong. Serial numbers weren't required until the Gun Control Act of 1968 came about. Millions upon millions of firearms were manufactured before that. Some had serial numbers but most of the lower priced ones did not. They were all "grandfathered" under the act and all, even without serial numbers, are currently legal to own.
Oh dear me! You're only joking - right? You HAVE to be ----seriously!
It's really degenerated from the sublime to the absurd.
One thing that I always do is fact check. And I have the facts to back up my comments. In any event those facts are not something that I "manufacture" from mythology. They are the laws made by someone else.
Sad to say that some posters here are not capable of understanding the numerous why's, wherefores, provisos and contingencies in my post. I just didn't want to make it miles long. The "shortfalls" in my post that you highlighted were already allowed for contingently in my comments.
Notice that I am polite and respectful in my responses. I don't respond to rules violators. ___________________________________________________________
I may add that the gun laws vary widely from state to state, county by county and Town/Village locally, as well as from Law Enforcement to Law enforcement - a lot.
In addition to my owning, transporting and/or shipping guns here in Wyoming, South Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania New Jersey, New York, Missouri the USA I also owned/ transported/ shipped, *( Sold at times ) rifles and hand guns in Canadian Provinces, Venezuela, Tunisia, Senegal, Ethiopia, Liberia, Cambodia and Vietnam. I also carried some in my luggage on airplanes and through customs including France and the Netherrlands. Did it since 1956.
I don't know about other manufacturers, but Marlin made some Model 62s without serial numbers. There was a voluntary recall where, if you owned a 62 without a SN, you could send your rifle back to Marlin and they would stamp the receiver with a serial number. I've seen both varieties and have a 62 in 30 Carbine that was returned and hand-stamped with a serial number. I have the invoice from Marlin that was returned to the owner with the newly stamped rifle.
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned. ...
William_E_Tibbe-
Below is a photo of a J.C.Higgins single-shot rifle chambered for the 22LR cartridge. It was manufactured by Marlin for Sears in the late 1950s or early 1960s. I own a rifle just like the one shown. My rifle has no serial number, and close inspection reveals that it never had one. I've checked at least 20 similar rifles in gun shops and at gun shows, and none has ever had a serial number. I purchased this rifle 40 years ago from an elderly friend who resided in the same state as myself. He's been dead at least 30 years.
This is "a commercially manufactured gun with no serial number".
What do you suggest is the proper course of action for myself, because it "is illegal and cannot be owned".
Thank you. --Bob . . (image from gunsamerica archives)
I had two handguns that were brought in from overseas. I tried to register them but needed three character witnesses which I didn't have at the time. I even wrote to the County executive but wasn't able to engender more people. So I let it lay for 40 years. Couple of years ago I had the bug and necessity to transfer those to my son in a different state. By hook and crook and jawboning I was able to persuade the sheriffs department and county permit office to issue the permits. Thus I transferred/shipped them out of my state to my son who went through the drill and got them accepted and permitted in his state.
In your case don't stir sleeping dogs. Let it lay. You have a snowballs chance in hell of ever transferring title, or shipping out of state, or selling commercially such as on consignment in a gun store without a serial number. If you eventually pass it on to heirs just zip it up and keep quiet.
Get friendly with your local Law Enforcement. They are generally, predominately good guys and usually are accommodating in the matter if legitimate and makes sense.
I had two handguns that were brought in from overseas. I tried to register them but needed three character witnesses which I didn't have at the time. I even wrote to the County executive but wasn't able to engender more people. So I let it lay for 40 years. Couple of years ago I had the bug and necessity to transfer those to my son in a different state. By hook and crook and jawboning I was able to persuade the sheriffs department and county permit office to issue the permits. Thus I transferred/shipped them out of my state to my son who went through the drill and got them accepted and permitted in his state.
In your case don't stir sleeping dogs. Let it lay. You have a snowballs chance in hell of ever transferring title, or shipping out of state, or selling commercially such as on consignment in a gun store without a serial number. If you eventually pass it on to heirs just zip it up and keep quiet.
Get friendly with your local Law Enforcement. They are generally, predominately good guys and usually are accommodating in the matter if legitimate and makes sense.
This person has no earthly clue WTF he's talking about.
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned. A home made gun for self us can.
You really should try reading the posts you respond to before sharing your wisdom. The posts before yours were all discussing pictures of guns, where the serial number was edited out of the picture for privacy reasons. That has nothing to do with guns that don't have serial numbers.
I'm really starting to wonder if you're just a troll on this forum; posting things just to create arguments.
I had two handguns that were brought in from overseas. I tried to register them but needed three character witnesses which I didn't have at the time. I even wrote to the County executive but wasn't able to engender more people. So I let it lay for 40 years. Couple of years ago I had the bug and necessity to transfer those to my son in a different state. By hook and crook and jawboning I was able to persuade the sheriffs department and county permit office to issue the permits. Thus I transferred/shipped them out of my state to my son who went through the drill and got them accepted and permitted in his state.
In your case don't stir sleeping dogs. Let it lay. You have a snowballs chance in hell of ever transferring title, or shipping out of state, or selling commercially such as on consignment in a gun store without a serial number. If you eventually pass it on to heirs just zip it up and keep quiet.
Get friendly with your local Law Enforcement. They are generally, predominately good guys and usually are accommodating in the matter if legitimate and makes sense.
This person has no earthly clue WTF he's talking about.
Travis
Understatement of the year... It's kind of mind boggling, actually. I'd expect it from a DU troll or something.. maybe.
I see pictures all the time with the serial number blocked out or people putting XXX at the end so as to not say it's actual serial number. Why? Are people that paranoid that the government is going to track down their guns?
Back to the original question, which is a good one...
I know of a couple of folks that have been through a world of hassle because a used gun they bought got run through the LE stolen firearm database and turned up as being stolen a couple of decades earlier. Now, I doubt anybody here would begrudge returning a firearm to somebody who it'd been stolen from - but NOBODY here would enjoy being in the crosshairs of the police until they prove they bought it from somebody else.
I had two handguns that were brought in from overseas. I tried to register them but needed three character witnesses which I didn't have at the time. I even wrote to the County executive but wasn't able to engender more people. So I let it lay for 40 years. Couple of years ago I had the bug and necessity to transfer those to my son in a different state. By hook and crook and jawboning I was able to persuade the sheriffs department and county permit office to issue the permits. Thus I transferred/shipped them out of my state to my son who went through the drill and got them accepted and permitted in his state.
In your case don't stir sleeping dogs. Let it lay. You have a snowballs chance in hell of ever transferring title, or shipping out of state, or selling commercially such as on consignment in a gun store without a serial number. If you eventually pass it on to heirs just zip it up and keep quiet.
Get friendly with your local Law Enforcement. They are generally, predominately good guys and usually are accommodating in the matter if legitimate and makes sense.
This person has no earthly clue WTF he's talking about.
Travis
You're just figgerin' THAT out?!
I took BigStick off my Ignore list and replaced him with that guy.
I had higher expectations for my fellow gun enthusiasts but instead I find a plethora of Bimbos - pseudo phony lamentably incompetent. Just disgracefully incompetent border line morons.
Fortunately the vast majority, I estimate over 90%, that post here are very experienced, very competent really Good Guys that I respect and appreciate .
That 10% of pathetic , dysfunctional, squirrels, vicious, poopy mouth, insulting aggressive, trouble maker bully's come with the baggage along with their gang bang mindless followers.
So long as we recognize these destructive elements as fool and mentally disorientated I don't propose any action.
I had higher expectations for my fellow gun enthusiasts but instead I find a plethora of Bimbos - pseudo phony lamentably incompetent. Just disgracefully incompetent border line morons.
Fortunately the vast majority, I estimate over 90%, that post here are very experienced, very competent really Good Guys that I respect and appreciate .
That 10% of pathetic , dysfunctional, squirrels, vicious, poopy mouth, insulting aggressive, trouble maker bully's come with the baggage along with their gang bang mindless followers.
So long as we recognize these destructive elements as fool and mentally disorientated I don't propose any action.
\ Just admit you were wrong, no need for the bullschitt.
I had higher expectations for my fellow gun enthusiasts but instead I find a plethora of Bimbos - pseudo phony lamentably incompetent. Just disgracefully incompetent border line morons.
Fortunately the vast majority, I estimate over 90%, that post here are very experienced, very competent really Good Guys that I respect and appreciate .
That 10% of pathetic , dysfunctional, squirrels, vicious, poopy mouth, insulting aggressive, trouble maker bully's come with the baggage along with their gang bang mindless followers.
So long as we recognize these destructive elements as fool and mentally disorientated I don't propose any action.
Mr. Tibbe. You are so far deep in wrong you just do not know it. No firearm was required to have a serial number until the 1968 gun control act. That's the FACT Jack. You have been given correct information. Many firearms prior to 1968 had no numbers including many guns under the J.C. Higgins Sears gun and those of Montgomery-Ward. Tell you what, just call your local BATFE office and ask. Get the correct answer from the horse's mouth. Paul B.
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
From the ATF tracing manual:
Quote
Serial numbers are not issued by ATF. Duplication of numbers is common between manufacturers and importers and many firearms manufactured prior to 1968 were not marked with a serial number at all.
So.. somebody must be wrong. Who might that be? ATF? Or Tibbe? Hmm.
Can you explain this difference of opinion, Mr. Tibbe?
I had higher expectations for my fellow gun enthusiasts but instead I find a plethora of Bimbos - pseudo phony lamentably incompetent. Just disgracefully incompetent border line morons.
Fortunately the vast majority, I estimate over 90%, that post here are very experienced, very competent really Good Guys that I respect and appreciate .
That 10% of pathetic , dysfunctional, squirrels, vicious, poopy mouth, insulting aggressive, trouble maker bully's come with the baggage along with their gang bang mindless followers.
So long as we recognize these destructive elements as fool and mentally disorientated I don't propose any action.
You take in a carton full of unregistered handguns with no serial numbers to your local Po Po and see how many you come out with.
Why would I take an "unregistered" handgun with or without a serial number to my police department?
Travis
In an attempt to register it as some here are advocating. Wasn't directed to you specifically.
Just playing devil's advocate.
Do some of you folks register handguns with local LE in your AO? Damn......
Bring a box of old handguns with no SNs to my PD and we'll send you home and welcome you to NH where we don't register schit! Now, if the SNs have been filed off......
I think I'm [bleep], though,......I have an old .22 here with no SN. Apparently, I can't own it!
I see pictures all the time with the serial number blocked out or people putting XXX at the end so as to not say it's actual serial number. Why? Are people that paranoid that the government is going to track down their guns?
No, just that people realize there are dicks in the world. Lets say I consider you a [bleep]. I see a gun you have a photo of and for fun I report a gun being stolen, here's the serial number. It gets entered into the system.
You sell the gun, gun is checked and is listed as stolen. People can do it for insurance fraud.
People can also try to sell your gun.
Lets say you post 14 pics of your NEWLY bought Smith & Wesson Model 29, along with serial number.
I lift the pictures, along with the serial number and post it on Gunbroker. Some guy sends me a check for a gun I don't own. I now 'disappear' and he's looking for me and his money.
Oh, but they have the serial number so maybe the cops can track it down.
Hey, serial number XYX was sent to Joe's Gunshop in Mooseballs, WI. Lets go there. He, Fred at Joe's Gunshop shows the gun was sold to YOU. Cops show up at door wondering why you took money for gun you never sold, something like fraud or something. Sure, you didn't do any of that, the guy that thought you a dick did.
But guess what, the problem is now in your lap.
I've never seen the serial number of a gun enhancing photos. I do know of the Gunbroker type scam happening.
If you want to post them, post them, I don't give a shiet. Just like you shouldn't give a sheit if I don't want to post pics of the serial numbers.
First thank you and many others for being polite and respectful.
As I have said before; Don't kill the messenger. I don't make this stuff up myself. I could bury this website with data and have the silly, loose screws wearing egg on their faces all day.
Pure and simple a gun without a serial number is ILLEGAL.
Not to digress or divert but ATF under Obama is a pathetic conglomeration of loose cannon balls on the deck. You'se Guys seem to be stuck on Federal Laws and apparently don't consider state and local.
Just take your gun without serial number to any gun shop and try to sell it. Try to ship it across state lines. Take it to a gun show and try to peddle it.
I have guns back to the late 1,800's with numbers and proofs. I'll research JC Higgins Sears without numbers and get back to you. On Monday I will be on the phone with ATF and I will give you their take on this.
One of the problems here is that some readers simply do not understand my posts. They go off half cocked and assume that some simple opposing statement is gospel and all inclusive, capturing all aspects, while reality is that it is multi faceted and complex with various conditions to contemplate to see the true picture.
I won't engage in a brawl with one particularly obnoxious and insulting name caller because he/she/it is obviously one of the low 10% that doesn't have the mental capacity to keep up. Sadly we have to write off those losers and try to be compassionate. I fail to see how my post rose to the level of being called stupid and a son of a bitch !!!! This is a clear and blatant violation of the website rules that Steel Head agreed to. I won't be asking for banning him/her/it whatever. I just don't care about such worthless chatter apparently from some debilitated nasty character that spends his/her/it's life on the internet all day long. Come to think of it I haven't seen anything constructive from - IT. Only sniping from the shadows.
I think I'm [bleep], though,......I have an old .22 here with no SN. Apparently, I can't own it!
George
I must be a hard core criminal...Ive got a 16 ga. shotgun with no serial number, and no way to ever trace it, cause it has no rifling, and Ive never registered it with the police. Perfect crime gun.
The first plainly stated serial numbers were not required until the GCA1968....
Lots of guns were made before that, lots had no serial numbers, and if you transfer one through all legal means the spot on the form 4473 asking for Serial number can LEGALLY be filled in "nsn"........"no serial number"
First thank you and many others for being polite and respectful.
As I have said before; Don't kill the messenger. I don't make this stuff up myself. I could bury this website with data and have the silly, loose screws wearing egg on their faces all day.
Pure and simple a gun without a serial number is ILLEGAL.
Not to digress or divert but ATF under Obama is a pathetic conglomeration of loose cannon balls on the deck. You'se Guys seem to be stuck on Federal Laws and apparently don't consider state and local.
Just take your gun without serial number to any gun shop and try to sell it. Try to ship it across state lines. Take it to a gun show and try to peddle it.
I have guns back to the late 1,800's with numbers and proofs. I'll research JC Higgins Sears without numbers and get back to you. On Monday I will be on the phone with ATF and I will give you their take on this.
One of the problems here is that some readers simply do not understand my posts.
I won't engage in a brawl with one particularly obnoxious and insulting name caller because he/she/it is obviously one of the low 10% that doesn't have the mental capacity to keep up. Sadly we have to write off those losers and try to be compassionate. I fail to see how my post rose to the level of being called stupid and a son of a bitch !!!! This is a clear and blatant violation of the website rules that Steel Head agreed to. I won't be asking for banning him/her/it whatever. I just don't care about such worthless chatter apparently from some debilitated nasty character that spends his/her/it's life on the internet all day long. Come to think of it I haven't seen anything constructive from - IT. Only sniping from the shadows.
The first plainly stated serial numbers were not required until the GCA1968....
Lots of guns were made before that, lots had no serial numbers, and if you transfer one through all legal means the spot on the form 4473 asking for Serial number can LEGALLY be filled in "nsn"........"no serial number"
Where I hell is the spot on the form that you refer to?
Maybe the Guys that own arms without serial numbers will be interested it the ATF form clause - 10 years in prison and $250,000 fine.
Do you ever read the [bleep] instructions you retard?
Question(s) 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30, Firearm(s) Description: These blocks should be completed with the firearm(s) information. Firearms manufactured after 1968 should all be marked with a serial number. Should you acquire a firearm that is not marked with a serial number; you may answer question 28with “NSN” (No Serial Number), “N/A” or “None.”
I'm pretty sure you're attempting to be helpful, but on the subject of serial numbers you need to do some catching up.
Under current laws, I'll have no difficulty transferring my J.C.Higgins rifle to any of my heirs or assigns, nor to any person who is a resident of Michigan and who I deem worthy of owning a J. C. Higgins rifle. Further I can ship it in interstate commerce via USPS, UPS, FedEx, or any other common carrier to a FFL holder.
Here is a part of the instructions for completing the ATF form 4457. For my rifle without serial-numbers, the instructions to the FFL holder are pretty plain:
Question(s) 26, 27, 28, 29 & 30, Firearm(s) Description: These blocks should be completed with the firearm(s) information. Firearms manufactured after 1968 should all be marked with a serial number. Should you acquire a firearm that is not marked with a serial number; you may answer question 28 with “NSN” (No Serial Number), “N/A” or “None.
Here's a quote from the website for which you provided a link. It's about 3/4 of the way down the page, near the photo of the Remington Nylon 66:
As for those pre-GCA guns which were manufactured without serial numbers, some are still on the market. A dealer buying or selling a non-NFA firearm made before 1968 and without a serial number need record “Made prior to 1968, no serial number” or “NSN” in the serial number space on his transaction record. Unless there is a state or local requirement, he need not apply a number or obtain a number from the police or BATFE. {image of Nylon 66}
No, Willie E. Tibbe is a retard. He was a retard 10 years ago when he had another logon name, he is a retard now. I kicked him in the nuts repeatedly back then for continually spewing FALSE information.
He hasn't changed in the least. There is nothing helpful about this POS troll, trust me.
The benefit of the Ignore feature is that it magically transforms this:
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned. A home made gun for self us can.
Over the years there were several reasons for not having a serial number but most date back a long time. Chinese and Iranian guns have ben found by the case ALL with the same number.
My memory is a little fuzzy about German Mauser's that apparently were being counterfeited by bandit operators.
There have been some cases on record about replicas or antiques that didn't have numbers.
It may be possible that some estate guns had missing numbers, so I heard.
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
Maybe disquieting to the crooks but the experts can retrieve filed off serial numbers by some high tech science. ___________________________________________________________
However, if we are speaking about blocking out the numbers on a photo, as opposed to removing it from the weapon, that doesn't constitute a crime unless the intent is to hoodwink someone, commit some misrepresentation or fraud.
Notice that I am polite and respectful in my responses. I don't respond to rules violators. ___________________________________________________________
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
What a sad day for America;
I had higher expectations for my fellow gun enthusiasts but instead I find a plethora of Bimbos - pseudo phony lamentably incompetent. Just disgracefully incompetent border line morons.
Fortunately the vast majority, I estimate over 90%, that post here are very experienced, very competent really Good Guys that I respect and appreciate .
That 10% of pathetic , dysfunctional, squirrels, vicious, poopy mouth, insulting aggressive, trouble maker bully's come with the baggage along with their gang bang mindless followers.
So long as we recognize these destructive elements as fool and mentally disorientated I don't propose any action.
So one of you is "polite & respectful" , the other one of you not so much.
I see pictures all the time with the serial number blocked out or people putting XXX at the end so as to not say it's actual serial number. Why? Are people that paranoid that the government is going to track down their guns?
The s/n is personal information for the seller to maintain. You are buying the firearm based on your needs and what you consider a fair price. It is immaterial as to what the serial number is. In the event of some pertinent date or historical significance, only a partial number is needed.
I'm pretty sure you're attempting to be helpful, but on the subject of serial numbers you need to do some catching up.
Under current laws, I'll have no difficulty transferring my J.C.Higgins rifle to any of my heirs or assigns, nor to any person who is a resident of Michigan and who I deem worthy of owning a J. C. Higgins rifle. Further I can ship it in interstate commerce via USPS, UPS, FedEx, or any other common carrier to a FFL holder.
Here is a part of the instructions for completing the ATF form 4457. For my rifle without serial-numbers, the instructions to the FFL holder are pretty plain:
Question(s) 26, 27, 28, 29 & 30, Firearm(s) Description: These blocks should be completed with the firearm(s) information. Firearms manufactured after 1968 should all be marked with a serial number. Should you acquire a firearm that is not marked with a serial number; you may answer question 28 with “NSN” (No Serial Number), “N/A” or “None.
Here's a quote from the website for which you provided a link. It's about 3/4 of the way down the page, near the photo of the Remington Nylon 66:
As for those pre-GCA guns which were manufactured without serial numbers, some are still on the market. A dealer buying or selling a non-NFA firearm made before 1968 and without a serial number need record “Made prior to 1968, no serial number” or “NSN” in the serial number space on his transaction record. Unless there is a state or local requirement, he need not apply a number or obtain a number from the police or BATFE. {image of Nylon 66}
Good luck. --Bob
Bob: Ill give you my sons address in Ringwood New Jersey and invite you to try to ship a gun without a serial number.
FYI I shipped numerous guns to him and I know the score.
As I warned before your Guys are hung up on Federal Regs while the local regs are the gist of the matter.
I'm pretty sure you're attempting to be helpful, but on the subject of serial numbers you need to do some catching up.
Under current laws, I'll have no difficulty transferring my J.C.Higgins rifle to any of my heirs or assigns, nor to any person who is a resident of Michigan and who I deem worthy of owning a J. C. Higgins rifle. Further I can ship it in interstate commerce via USPS, UPS, FedEx, or any other common carrier to a FFL holder.
Here is a part of the instructions for completing the ATF form 4457. For my rifle without serial-numbers, the instructions to the FFL holder are pretty plain:
Question(s) 26, 27, 28, 29 & 30, Firearm(s) Description: These blocks should be completed with the firearm(s) information. Firearms manufactured after 1968 should all be marked with a serial number. Should you acquire a firearm that is not marked with a serial number; you may answer question 28 with “NSN” (No Serial Number), “N/A” or “None.
Here's a quote from the website for which you provided a link. It's about 3/4 of the way down the page, near the photo of the Remington Nylon 66:
As for those pre-GCA guns which were manufactured without serial numbers, some are still on the market. A dealer buying or selling a non-NFA firearm made before 1968 and without a serial number need record “Made prior to 1968, no serial number” or “NSN” in the serial number space on his transaction record. Unless there is a state or local requirement, he need not apply a number or obtain a number from the police or BATFE. {image of Nylon 66}
Good luck. --Bob
Bob: Ill give you my sons address in Ringwood New Jersey and invite you to try to ship a gun without a serial number.
FYI I shipped numerous guns to him and I know the score.
As I warned before your Guys are hung up on Federal Regs while the local regs are the gist of the matter.
Where did you mention 'local regs' in your first post, dickweed?
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned. A home made gun for self us can.
Over the years there were several reasons for not having a serial number but most date back a long time. Chinese and Iranian guns have ben found by the case ALL with the same number.
My memory is a little fuzzy about German Mauser's that apparently were being counterfeited by bandit operators.
There have been some cases on record about replicas or antiques that didn't have numbers.
It may be possible that some estate guns had missing numbers, so I heard.
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
Maybe disquieting to the crooks but the experts can retrieve filed off serial numbers by some high tech science. ___________________________________________________________
However, if we are speaking about blocking out the numbers on a photo, as opposed to removing it from the weapon, that doesn't constitute a crime unless the intent is to hoodwink someone, commit some misrepresentation or fraud.
[quote=Steelhead]No, Willie E. Tibbe is a retard. He was a retard 10 years ago when he had another logon name, he is a retard now. I kicked him in the nuts repeatedly back then for continually spewing FALSE information.
He hasn't changed in the least. There is nothing helpful about this POS troll, trust me. [/quote
I have no idea as to who you are and I have NO recollection at all of your allegations.
Certainly you are aware of the website regs that forbid deliberate attacks, insults, degradations, which you violate with apparent impunity.
You have a simple choice, Knock it off or your ass will be kicked all over the ball park. FYI I'm associated with Law enforcement. Get your pocket book ready. This will take you to litigation and cost you big time for slander and defamation.
Result of which you will be banned from this site permanently.
Bottom line : Piss me off and I will mess you up like your worst nightmare,
My wife and I have a couple of older German guns, one a Sauer side-by-side shotgun and one a “no-name” combination gun, both purchased from FFL dealers. Neither has a serial number and it’s really not a big deal. Removing a serial # is.
[quote=Steelhead]No, Willie E. Tibbe is a retard. He was a retard 10 years ago when he had another logon name, he is a retard now. I kicked him in the nuts repeatedly back then for continually spewing FALSE information.
He hasn't changed in the least. There is nothing helpful about this POS troll, trust me. [/quote
I have no idea as to who you are and I have NO recollection at all of your allegations.
Certainly you are aware of the website regs that forbid deliberate attacks, insults, degradations, which you violate with apparent impunity.
You have a simple choice, Knock it off or your ass will be kicked all over the ball park. FYI I'm associated with Law enforcement. Get your pocket book ready. This will take you to litigation and cost you big time for slander and defamation.
Result of which you will be banned from this site permanently.
Bottom line : Piss me off and I will mess you up like your worst nightmare,
Has anyone every been banned from this site permanently?
Since Larry Root has been banned and returned at least a dozen times, the act of banning can't have any real meaning to a person who is determined.
[quote=Steelhead]No, Willie E. Tibbe is a retard. He was a retard 10 years ago when he had another logon name, he is a retard now. I kicked him in the nuts repeatedly back then for continually spewing FALSE information.
He hasn't changed in the least. There is nothing helpful about this POS troll, trust me. [/quote
I have no idea as to who you are and I have NO recollection at all of your allegations.
Certainly you are aware of the website regs that forbid deliberate attacks, insults, degradations, which you violate with apparent impunity.
You have a simple choice, Knock it off or your ass will be kicked all over the ball park. FYI I'm associated with Law enforcement. Get your pocket book ready. This will take you to litigation and cost you big time for slander and defamation.
Result of which you will be banned from this site permanently.
Bottom line : Piss me off and I will mess you up like your worst nightmare,
Libel. Slander is spoken.
"Piss me off and I will mess you up..." sounds like a threat....
[quote=Steelhead]No, Willie E. Tibbe is a retard. He was a retard 10 years ago when he had another logon name, he is a retard now. I kicked him in the nuts repeatedly back then for continually spewing FALSE information.
He hasn't changed in the least. There is nothing helpful about this POS troll, trust me. [/quote
I have no idea as to who you are and I have NO recollection at all of your allegations.
Certainly you are aware of the website regs that forbid deliberate attacks, insults, degradations, which you violate with apparent impunity.
You have a simple choice, Knock it off or your ass will be kicked all over the ball park. FYI I'm associated with Law enforcement. Get your pocket book ready. This will take you to litigation and cost you big time for slander and defamation.
Result of which you will be banned from this site permanently.
Bottom line : Piss me off and I will mess you up like your worst nightmare,
Yeah ace, bring it.
I'm guessing this is a different WETibbe from 2005? Does the sound of the below post sound familiar?
Originally Posted by WETIBBE
Pack up your peanut butter and jelly sandwich and apple for the teacher and toddle along little fella. It's school time.
This board is for those �regular folks� who have a serious interest in firearms and the shooting sports. We�re a pretty laid back bunch, so feel free to pull up a crate and chat. We do have a few rules, in order to maintain the integrity of the board, and assure that each Member is treated with respect. These rules are: GENERAL RULES . Stay civil. No profanity, personal attacks, or flames toward a person or group. (If you can't say it on network television, we don't want to see it on the boards). . No discussion of illegal activities (like bombings, �getting� someone, etc). . No spamming - Stay on-topic and maintain mature, constructive conversation. . Use only ONE username. Use of multiple usernames will be considered spam. . Trolling is forbidden and Trolls will be banned on sight. USERNAME RULES . All messages you post will include your "user name." This may be your real name or a "handle" (nickname or pseudonym). . If you choose to use a handle, it may not be the name of a living person or a name likely to be confused with that of a living person. . If you register using a real name other than your own, or if the user name you choose contains offensive or misleading elements, your account will be canceled and you will be banned from future participation at this site. CONDUCT RULES . Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and crude or sexually-explicit language. . Inappropriate or offensive graphics, user names, or profile entries are not permitted. . Messages should be relatively short and to the point. Do not post lengthy replies (including replies that consist largely of quotes from an earlier message). . Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda. . Anti-Gunowners are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the beliefs & positions held by the pro-gunowners participating on the board since it it their board. CONTENT RULES . Do not post others� e-mail addresses or private e-mail sent by them unless they give you permission to do so. . Do not post copyrighted material. . Do not post material from unapproved private revelations. . Do not post personal phone numbers and addresses. . Do not post anything that can be construed as spam. . Do not post anything that can be construed as a commercial advertisement or contains any form of commercial solicitation. DISCUSSION FORUMS . Messages posted to threads should be on-topic. If you wish to discuss another topic, start a new thread. . Do not pad your post count with chatty or off-topic messages. PRIVATE MESSAGING . If you have something to say to an individual member that is not of general interest to the board, use the private messaging system. . Inappropriate or harassing private messages are not permitted. . Private messages ARE subject to edit & review by staff at any time without notice. ENFORCEMENT . Reports of infractions of these rules should be submitted to the moderators by private messaging. . Material that violates the rules may be edited or deleted without prior notice. . Moderator actions are not open to public debate. Judgments by the Moderators can be discussed with the Moderators via private messaging but not on the board itself. . Users who persistently violate the rules will be banned. The above rules are subject to change without notice. Violations of these rules will result in ONE warning. If that isn�t effective, the offender will be banned from the board. We reserve the right to ban immediately someone posting a flagrant flame or spam. The decision of the Staff is final. You may appeal for reinstatement. Such appeal will be discussed by Staff, and if merited, you may be reinstated. But only once.
Considering the real-time nature of this message board, it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of posted messages and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this BB or any entity associated with this BB. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violate of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to review, edit and delete any message (INCLUDING Private Messages between members) for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). We reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.
Your use of this site constitute an implicit acceptance of ALL rules and operating procedures outlined above. Additionally, you agree to defend, indemnify and hold 24 Hour Campfire and our subsidiaries, parents, affiliates, officers, directors, agents and employees harmless from and against any and all claims, losses, liabilities, costs and expenses INCLUDING Attorneys' Fees arising from or in connection with (A) your breach of this agreement; (B) your violation of any local, state, Federal, foreign or international laws, codes and regulations; (C) your violation of any third party's rights including, but not limited to, infringement of any copyright, violation of any proprietary right and invasion of any privacy rights. THIS OBLIGATION WILL SURVIVE THE TERMINATION OF THIS AGREEMENT. _________________________________________________
This place has rules? Who knew. I always thought new guys should observe and learn the rules, not quote them as if they conferred some sort of authority
You have apparently decided that it's OK for me to keep my J.C.Higgin's rifle and I won't get arrested for possession here in Michigan. Am I correct in assuming that, like the Watergate guys used to say to the senate committee, this statement "is no longer operational"?
Quote
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
So, my plight has changed from a blanket prohibition to one that might get me in trouble in Ringwood, New Jersey.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
Bob: Ill give you my sons address in Ringwood New Jersey and invite you to try to ship a gun without a serial number.
FYI I shipped numerous guns to him and I know the score.
Well, you needn't bother giving me your son's address. (Whitepages thinks it's 26 Underhill Terrace, but of course that may be wrong.)
What I would require before shipping any guns to your son is the first three and the last five digits of his Federal Firearms Dealers License. If he doesn't have an FFL then no gun gets shipped whether or not it has a serial number.
However, I'm willing to learn about NJ laws. Please indicate the statutes that make it a crime to take possession of a serial-numberless pre-68 J.C.Higgins 22 rifle, as opposed to one with a serial number.
[quote=Steelhead]No, Willie E. Tibbe is a retard. He was a retard 10 years ago when he had another logon name, he is a retard now. I kicked him in the nuts repeatedly back then for continually spewing FALSE information.
He hasn't changed in the least. There is nothing helpful about this POS troll, trust me. [/quote
I have no idea as to who you are and I have NO recollection at all of your allegations.
Certainly you are aware of the website regs that forbid deliberate attacks, insults, degradations, which you violate with apparent impunity.
You have a simple choice, Knock it off or your ass will be kicked all over the ball park. FYI I'm associated with Law enforcement. Get your pocket book ready. This will take you to litigation and cost you big time for slander and defamation.
Result of which you will be banned from this site permanently.
Bottom line : Piss me off and I will mess you up like your worst nightmare,
Libel. Slander is spoken.
"Piss me off and I will mess you up..." sounds like a threat....
David
Associated with Law Enforcement could mean he's a crossing guard, or in jail, or owns a whistle.......
I had two handguns that were brought in from overseas. I tried to register them but needed three character witnesses which I didn't have at the time. I even wrote to the County executive but wasn't able to engender more people. So I let it lay for 40 years. Couple of years ago I had the bug and necessity to transfer those to my son in a different state. By hook and crook and jawboning I was able to persuade the sheriffs department and county permit office to issue the permits. Thus I transferred/shipped them out of my state to my son who went through the drill and got them accepted and permitted in his state.
In your case don't stir sleeping dogs. Let it lay. You have a snowballs chance in hell of ever transferring title, or shipping out of state, or selling commercially such as on consignment in a gun store without a serial number. If you eventually pass it on to heirs just zip it up and keep quiet.
Get friendly with your local Law Enforcement. They are generally, predominately good guys and usually are accommodating in the matter if legitimate and makes sense.
Do you proof read your bulls chit before you type it?
But first, if some spoilers had actually read my original post I was responding to the question posed, by invitation, from the person who started this thread, they would have seen that I had interjected lots of conditions and scenarios about various guns.
As always and particularly on this forum, some people seem to think that one size fits all.
#1. The touted GCA 1968 law requiring that all guns needed a serial number was preceded by a 1938 Federal Firearms act. The 1938 act required rifles to be stamped with serial numbers. Prior to that date serial numbers were by manufacturers option and all of the serious ones did number their guns and some even numbered individual parts. .22 caliber and shotguns didn't need serial numbers until 1968.
#2. If not MOST, then many JC Higgins Sears Roebuck .22 caliber rifles didn't have serial numbers. Sears farmed out the manufacturing of their guns to numerous manufacturers. A model number appeared on each gun and it identified the company that manufactured the gun for Sears. There were numerous well known manufacturers, Americans, as well as Mauser. The Mauser pirates counterfeiting, that I alluded to, occurred at the close of WW11 when Mauser was dismembered and the equipment hauled off to other countries one of which was Serbia.
#3. As to your gun without serial number, to determine if it is legal or illegal depends on caliber and date of manufacture. If it is post 1968 illegal. If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 illegal. If it is pre 1938, without serial number, probably legal. If the serial number was effaced - illegal - a felony. Some sentences were 5 years and $10,000 fine. Again, I covered this in my original post here but it apparently was too brief, or not sufficiently explanatory and lacked detail for some to absorb and for that I am sorry.
#4. As you astutely observed you can't ship to my son directly to his home address. He isn't FFL. You need to address it to him CO Thunder Mountain. That's a FFL skeet range close by.
As to my involvement with law enforcement, in case my fellow posters are not familiar, here's the Infragard website. I'm not recruiting for them but I will say anyone who cares about our country may want to try and get accepted as a member and help out to protect our people and our country. I'll amplify strenuously that my involvement does not in any way connect with my activity here. It is totally separated.
I had two handguns that were brought in from overseas. I tried to register them but needed three character witnesses which I didn't have at the time. I even wrote to the County executive but wasn't able to engender more people. So I let it lay for 40 years. Couple of years ago I had the bug and necessity to transfer those to my son in a different state. By hook and crook and jawboning I was able to persuade the sheriffs department and county permit office to issue the permits. Thus I transferred/shipped them out of my state to my son who went through the drill and got them accepted and permitted in his state.
In your case don't stir sleeping dogs. Let it lay. You have a snowballs chance in hell of ever transferring title, or shipping out of state, or selling commercially such as on consignment in a gun store without a serial number. If you eventually pass it on to heirs just zip it up and keep quiet.
Get friendly with your local Law Enforcement. They are generally, predominately good guys and usually are accommodating in the matter if legitimate and makes sense.
This person has no earthly clue WTF he's talking about.
Travis
You're just figgerin' THAT out?!
I took BigStick off my Ignore list and replaced him with that guy.
Stick may not be into social graces but he's actually out there shooting,, loading and making stuff happen. And, he's a pretty good photographer.
But first, if some spoilers had actually read my original post I was responding to the question posed, by invitation, from the person who started this thread, they would have seen that I had interjected lots of conditions and scenarios about various guns.
As always and particularly on this forum, some people seem to think that one size fits all.
Bill: When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to throw away the shovel. Through your statements quoted above, you've gone beyond losing all credibility; you've taken it into the realm of the absurd given your broad brush, unqualified statements from your first post:
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
........
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
So do us all a favor, admit you were wrong, and quit digging.
But first, if some spoilers had actually read my original post I was responding to the question posed, by invitation, from the person who started this thread, they would have seen that I had interjected lots of conditions and scenarios about various guns.
As always and particularly on this forum, some people seem to think that one size fits all.
Bill: When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to throw away the shovel. Through your statements quoted above, you've gone beyond losing all credibility; you've taken it into the realm of the absurd given your broad brush, unqualified statements from your first post:
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
........
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
So do us all a favor, admit you were wrong, and quit digging.
Smoke:
You're right in your world and context. Absolutely.
I really like the aspect of very old and very experienced posters meticulously scrutinizing everything and exposing the false, disingenuous, information. Including mine.
I'm ready to confess and be sentenced, But what is my crime ??
I don't weasel around duck and dodge. _____________________________________________________
I'm ready to confess and be sentenced, But what is my crime ??
Bill: First, I'm not "very old." Second, it does not take "meticulous scrutiny" to find the doublespeak and contradictions in your posts, they're blatant and obvious.
Your "crime" is in posting erroneous information. If you can't accept being corrected, best to move on.
But first, if some spoilers had actually read my original post I was responding to the question posed, by invitation, from the person who started this thread, they would have seen that I had interjected lots of conditions and scenarios about various guns.
As always and particularly on this forum, some people seem to think that one size fits all.
Bill: When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to throw away the shovel. Through your statements quoted above, you've gone beyond losing all credibility; you've taken it into the realm of the absurd given your broad brush, unqualified statements from your first post:
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
........
But you can take this to the bank: Any gun that has the serial number missing is HOT and party to a felony. You can't sell it, you can't own it, you can't ship it.
So do us all a favor, admit you were wrong, and quit digging.
Smoke:
You're right in your world and context. Absolutely.
I really like the aspect of very old and very experienced posters meticulously scrutinizing everything and exposing the false, disingenuous, information. Including mine.
I'm ready to confess and be sentenced, But what is my crime ??
I don't weasel around duck and dodge. _____________________________________________________
You must be some kind of Kalifornia Transplant, because you certainly don't know enough about guns to be from Wyoming.
Three day weekend and learned three new words. My head will explode and become dehydrated at this rate as opposed to being hydrocephalus. Even used one in a sentence. BEER TIME!
#1. The touted GCA 1968 law requiring that all guns needed a serial number was preceded by a 1938 Federal Firearms act. The 1938 act required rifles to be stamped with serial numbers. Prior to that date serial numbers were by manufacturers option and all of the serious ones did number their guns and some even numbered individual parts. .22 caliber and shotguns didn't need serial numbers until 1968.
#2. If not MOST, then many JC Higgins Sears Roebuck .22 caliber rifles didn't have serial numbers. Sears farmed out the manufacturing of their guns to numerous manufacturers. A model number appeared on each gun and it identified the company that manufactured the gun for Sears. There were numerous well known manufacturers, Americans, as well as Mauser. The Mauser pirates counterfeiting, that I alluded to, occurred at the close of WW11 when Mauser was dismembered and the equipment hauled off to other countries one of which was Serbia.
#3. As to your gun without serial number, to determine if it is legal or illegal depends on caliber and date of manufacture. If it is post 1968 illegal. If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 illegal. If it is pre 1938, without serial number, probably legal. If the serial number was effaced - illegal - a felony. Some sentences were 5 years and $10,000 fine. Again, I covered this in my original post here but it apparently was too brief, or not sufficiently explanatory and lacked detail for some to absorb and for that I am sorry.
Bill
It hurts to see somebody work that hard to avoid admitting they were wrong...
AND STILL GETTING IT WRONG.
Sorry Bill. 1938 law didn't require serial numbers on squat. Just made it illegal to obliterate any that existed.
Quote
The F.F.A. regulations did not require serial numbers on firearms (necessary to identify a particular gun as having been the subject of a transaction) until 1958, and then exempted .22-caliber rifles from the serial number requirement.
In 1958, new Federal regulations were adopted that extended the record-keeping period from 6 to 10 years after a firearm sales transaction and that required manufacturers' serial numbers on all firearms except .22 caliber rifles
William_E_Tibbe- In my previous post, I asked you to cite the New Jersey state or local statutes that make it a crime to take possession of a serial-numberless pre-68 J.C.Higgins 22 rifle, as opposed to one with a serial number.
The ONLY pertinent part of your reply to this request was this:
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
... When the gun arrives without a serial number that's when the fun begins with the Ringwood police. ...
What laws, either state or municipal, support the Ringwood police in their "fun"? Are you stating that they are enforcing some law? What is that law?
Some further notes on your response:
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
#1. The touted GCA 1968 law requiring that all guns needed a serial number was preceded by a 1938 Federal Firearms act. The 1938 act required rifles to be stamped with serial numbers. Prior to that date serial numbers were by manufacturers option and all of the serious ones did number their guns and some even numbered individual parts. .22 caliber and shotguns didn't need serial numbers until 1968.
You're wrong. The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 did not require rifles to be stamped with a serial number. The 1938 act is given in its entirety here: [color:#0000FF]1938 Federal Firearms Act[/color] The only reference to serial numbers in that act is a prohibition against transporting or possessing a firearm from which the serial number has been removed, obliterated, or altered. (Section 2, subdivision (i)). If you can provide one or more references indicating that the 1938 law DID require a serial number on rifles, I'd appreciate your posting it, and will apologize for doubting you.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
#2. If not MOST, then many JC Higgins Sears Roebuck .22 caliber rifles didn't have serial numbers. Sears farmed out the manufacturing of their guns to numerous manufacturers. A model number appeared on each gun and it identified the company that manufactured the gun for Sears. There were numerous well known manufacturers, Americans, as well as Mauser. The Mauser pirates counterfeiting, that I alluded to, occurred at the close of WW11 when Mauser was dismembered and the equipment hauled off to other countries one of which was Serbia.
I was pretty much aware of this, which is the reason for the description in my first post of this thread, giving an approximate date of manufacture and the identify of the manufacturer.
Quote
#3. As to your gun without serial number, to determine if it is legal or illegal depends on caliber and date of manufacture. If it is post 1968 illegal. If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 illegal. If it is pre 1938, without serial number, probably legal. If the serial number was effaced - illegal - a felony. Some sentences were 5 years and $10,000 fine. Again, I covered this in my original post here but it apparently was too brief, or not sufficiently explanatory and lacked detail for some to absorb and for that I am sorry.
"If it is post 1938 and a rifle larger than .22 [possession is] illegal." Again, this is a factually incorrect statement. Your paragraph #3 is only in the context of federal law. Before 1968, federal law did not require US manufacturers to apply serial numbers for rifles and shotguns not regulated by the 1934 NFA, regardless of caliber or gauge. (Again, if one exists, an authoritative contrary reference would be appreciated.)
I'll await your citation of the New Jersey law that requires serial numbers on rifles made before 1968. --Bob
Question on Serial Numbers. If I purchase a 80% stripped lower receiver, and later finish it, I assume that it would not require a serial number as long as I'm not selling it commercially. However, if I later try to sell it to another private citizen, would that transaction be legal?
This whole thing about guns with no serial number is just beyond absurd.
As it turns out primarily guns without serial numbers are overwhelmingly those marketed by Sears Roebuck under the name JC Higgins. And those were reputed to be mostly .22 caliber. Sears stopped marketing guns in 1962.
Numerous American manufacturer provided guns to Sears. Sears didn't make guns, they only sold them under their brand name. You would not actually know who the real manufacturer was.
The manufacturer used serial numbers on their guns made and sold by them. It was first a manufacturing/inventory control procedure and second a way to know how many guns were actually produced.
I don't know if the manufacturers kept an internal log or accounting of guns made for Sears/JC Higgins but I would surmise that they did. They probably didn't want their own production run serial numbers co-mingled with the Sears guns.
When we talk about building mountains out of mole hills this is a colossal example. It all boils down to predominantly one marketer - Sears/JC Higgins and principally one caliber .22 rim fire.
All of the kibitzers , interlopers that get their jolly's sniping and making mean spirited insults belong in one particular class. When you look at any given thread the numbers of "views" are huge compared to the actual count of respondents. That means that the majority are lurkers who read but don't actually post. Thus the numbers of kibitzers/interlopers is really very small.
That's the way it has been for as far back as I can remember. It's that segment of the population that has been around and always will be.
Add Winchester model 37, single shot shotguns to the no serial number list. I went nuts trying to find one on my gun, only to find out they didn't put serial numbers on them.
This whole thing about guns with no serial number is just beyond absurd.
As it turns out primarily guns without serial numbers are overwhelmingly those marketed by Sears Roebuck under the name JC Higgins. And those were reputed to be mostly .22 caliber. Sears stopped marketing guns in 1962.
Just quit already. I well remember Sears catalogs listing guns into the 70s as well as guns in stores. (I don't remember anything about guns in 1962 other than that my dad seemed to be a crackshot with his Model 62 Winchester.) Ted Williams guns didn't come around until the J.C. Higgins moniker was dropped anyway.
I had a Remington 552 without a serial number. That's one that stands out. I've owned a few others, including shotguns. I've never owned a 'Sears' brand firearm in my life either.
Was in your area last week, was in Elizabeth seeing some friends. Really thinking about moving around there after I retire from the Army Feb 2017.
Thread derail over!
______________________________________
Yetti:
I too am a vet. My son is a mortgage banker with Bank of America. He can fix you up with a mortgage in jig time. He has a handle on all real estate which is presently land office booming in his area, working 6 days a week and can't keep up.
Just a little bit confusing. Are you thinking about moving to Elizabeth, New Jersey?
If such I suggest that you explore the State extensively.
If a hunter, there are super over abundances of deer, bears and turkeys. They are EVERYWHERE. Most are in high density populated areas and can't be hunted. Shotgun only. No rifles.
If you like the ocean and fishing it is a super good opportunity.
My son has bears in his yard constantly for 26 years. Deer are eating everything. Turkeys are prolific like never before. Look up North and West for remote areas, state land, abundant game. in the Hudson Highlands.
I acknowledge your query's. Give me a little time. I will consult with the Ringwood police and get back to you.
For you and other please understand that I don't make this stuff up. I'm posting info from others. I don't vet it for accuracy. There isn't any more reason to believe the information that I obtain than to believe your information. ____________________________________________________________
Was in your area last week, was in Elizabeth seeing some friends. Really thinking about moving around there after I retire from the Army Feb 2017.
Thread derail over!
______________________________________
Yetti:
I too am a vet. My son is a mortgage banker with Bank of America. He can fix you up with a mortgage in jig time. He has a handle on all real estate which is presently land office booming in his area, working 6 days a week and can't keep up.
Just a little bit confusing. Are you thinking about moving to Elizabeth, New Jersey?
If such I suggest that you explore the State extensively.
If a hunter, there are super over abundances of deer, bears and turkeys. They are EVERYWHERE. Most are in high density populated areas and can't be hunted. Shotgun only. No rifles.
If you like the ocean and fishing it is a super good opportunity.
My son has bears in his yard constantly for 26 years. Deer are eating everything. Turkeys are prolific like never before. Look up North and West for remote areas, state land, abundant game. in the Hudson Highlands.
I acknowledge your query's. Give me a little time. I will consult with the Ringwood police and get back to you.
For you and other please understand that I don't make this stuff up. I'm posting info from others. I don't vet it for accuracy. There isn't any more reason to believe the information that I obtain than to believe your information. ____________________________________________________________
Bill
Gee, you're Google Foo guy, who would have guessed.
Here's a hint, if you don't know, don't post. Of course you will continue to post inaccuracies, because that's how you get your jollies.
Along with the pair of old German guns mentioned previously, I have two Marlin .22's without serial numbers. It wasn't just cheap single-shots made for Sears.
Along with the pair of old German guns mentioned previously, I have two Marlin .22's without serial numbers. It wasn't just cheap single-shots made for Sears.
There was a considerable period of time when Remington didn't put serial numbers on their 51x series of bolt action .22s, something like 1940 to 1967.
Along with the pair of old German guns mentioned previously, I have two Marlin .22's without serial numbers. It wasn't just cheap single-shots made for Sears.
Hi John:
As you can see the boys are having a jolly good time at my expense. I don't mind their clowning around at all. I just write them off as that element of our society that merits tolerance for the basically worthless annoyance among us. E,G, non contributing pests without goal or objective. Chatter box spoilers that contribute nothing .
I'll say that posters who claim to own guns without serial numbers should be given the benefit of the doubt. But as Ronald Reagan said : Trust but verify!
In your case you enjoy an excellent reputation. Thus I will say that there seems to be some relatively verifiable exceptions to the generally assumed culprit alone - JC Higgins Sears .22 caliber rim fire.
However if I was a betting man I would say that there are not one in 1,000 posters here who can claim a firearm without a whole number.
I would like to say that I don't understand how we came to be diverted onto this non-issue but I really do.
Along with the pair of old German guns mentioned previously, I have two Marlin .22's without serial numbers. It wasn't just cheap single-shots made for Sears.
Hi John:
As you can see the boys are having a jolly good time at my expense. I don't mind their clowning around at all. I just write them off as that element of our society that merits tolerance for the basically worthless annoyance among us. E,G, non contributing pests without goal or objective. Chatter box spoilers that contribute nothing .
I'll say that posters who claim to own guns without serial numbers should be given the benefit of the doubt. But as Ronald Reagan said : Trust but verify!
In your case you enjoy an excellent reputation. Thus I will say that there seems to be some relatively verifiable exceptions to the generally assumed culprit alone - JC Higgins Sears .22 caliber rim fire.
However if I was a betting man I would say that there are not one in 1,000 posters here who can claim a firearm without a whole number.
I would like to say that I don't understand how we came to be diverted onto this non-issue but I really do.
Bill
You back pedal better than most defensive backs!
The fact remains you are a fugging idiot, full stop, end of story
This is beginning to look more and more like the Jonathan Livingston Seagull syndrome. Flying far over the heads of those lesser endowed.
The lesser suffering from jealousy, envy coupled with paranoia and malicious inclinations.
I read all of the insults. That seems to be scary. Some of those loons shouldn't even own guns.
I was apparently wrong in thinking that there had been a vast improvement in the quality of poster from many years ago.
Thus hasta luego, good bye. I won't be posting here on this matter any more. Its a done deal. You will be talking to your self from here on in.
*( Note that this is addressed to that tiny percentage of dysfunctional spoilers who are too vocal and far too disruptive to common sense exchanges of valid ideas and opinions ).
*( Note that this is addressed to that tiny percentage of dysfunctional spoilers who are too vocal and far too disruptive to common sense exchanges of valid ideas and opinions ).
Valid opinions are welcome here. Come back when you have one.
For you and other please understand that I don't make this stuff up. I'm posting info from others. I don't vet it for accuracy.
So you are saying you simply regurgitate information that you've heard/read without any first hand knowledge of the facts and without taking the time to find out if what you are posting is accurate?
And you believe this should get you off the hook for posting incorrect information and then blindly defending it?
For you and other please understand that I don't make this stuff up. I'm posting info from others. I don't vet it for accuracy.
So you are saying you simply regurgitate information that you've heard/read without any first hand knowledge of the facts and without taking the time to find out if what you are posting is accurate?
And you believe this should get you off the hook for posting incorrect information and then blindly defending it?
Does that seem reasonable to you?
It was on the internet... how could it not be true?
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
Wrong. Really wrong. Serial numbers weren't required until the Gun Control Act of 1968 came about. Millions upon millions of firearms were manufactured before that. Some had serial numbers but most of the lower priced ones did not. They were all "grandfathered" under the act and all, even without serial numbers, are currently legal to own.
Oh dear me! You're only joking - right? You HAVE to be ----seriously!
It's really degenerated from the sublime to the absurd.
One thing that I always do is fact check. And I have the facts to back up my comments. In any event those facts are not something that I "manufacture" from mythology. They are the laws made by someone else.
Sad to say that some posters here are not capable of understanding the numerous why's, wherefores, provisos and contingencies in my post. I just didn't want to make it miles long. The "shortfalls" in my post that you highlighted were already allowed for contingently in my comments.
Notice that I am polite and respectful in my responses. I don't respond to rules violators. ___________________________________________________________
I may add that the gun laws vary widely from state to state, county by county and Town/Village locally, as well as from Law Enforcement to Law enforcement - a lot.
In addition to my owning, transporting and/or shipping guns here in Wyoming, South Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania New Jersey, New York, Missouri the USA I also owned/ transported/ shipped, *( Sold at times ) rifles and hand guns in Canadian Provinces, Venezuela, Tunisia, Senegal, Ethiopia, Liberia, Cambodia and Vietnam. I also carried some in my luggage on airplanes and through customs including France and the Netherrlands. Did it since 1956.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe
A commercially manufactured gun with no serial number is illegal and cannot be owned.
This is wrong. As stated, serial numbers were only required in the US by the Gun Control Act of 1968. Prior to that time millions of inexpensive guns had no serial numbers and it's perfectly legal to own and transfer them.
Nobody likes to be wrong, but when it happens, man up and admit it. Don't pile on more BS and especially don't claim to be some sort of expert operating on a higher level beyond the reckoning of the rest of us.
My god! How does someone live on this planet and not know what is real and what is not? I have a few with no serial number, and it is perfectly legal up here.
This is beginning to look more and more like the Jonathan Livingston Seagull syndrome.
Have you read the story of Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach? The seagull who was rejected by his flock for being different.
Do you ever get the feeling that you simply don’t fit in anywhere? That literally nobody on the planet views life through your eyes?
_______________________________________________
Add:
Thanks for your input. I always respond respectfully with politeness. And I abide by the rules of the forum that specifically prohibit many posts and call for banning violators who number many here.
If you read the Jonathan Livingstone Seagull syndrome fiction it actually matched almost 99.99% of my actions and philosophy.
It's a sad day for American that I apparently cannot reach out to so many dysfunctional, low mentality, fellow gun owners who are drinking the purple lemonade.
And in the same breath, you insult the general population. One could safely assume it is all-inclusive with wording such as:
Quote
It's a sad day for American that I apparently cannot reach out to so many dysfunctional, low mentality, fellow gun owners who are drinking the purple lemonade.
Perhaps your approach is somewhat too condescending for such a group? Or, perhaps *they* sense a Superiority complex and no substance to back it up.
There is, if even grudgingly, respect for the knowledgeable here, even if the approach is rough---hint.
Given some of the information I've seen you give, and your response to even a polite correction, it's no wonder you get the reception you do.
Remember, when you point a finger at someone, you have three pointing back at you.
This is beginning to look more and more like the Jonathan Livingston Seagull syndrome. Flying far over the heads of those lesser endowed.
By "lesser endowed", did you actually mean not 'having swallowed hook, line, and sinker' as pictured above? If so, I would say you just paid a whole bunch of folks a nice complement. So kudos for your gracious benevolocity. (Shatting out the line and sinker is a good start. Keep it coming! )
This is beginning to look more and more like the Jonathan Livingston Seagull syndrome.
Have you read the story of Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach? The seagull who was rejected by his flock for being different.
Do you ever get the feeling that you simply don’t fit in anywhere? That literally nobody on the planet views life through your eyes?
Actually, I read that dumb hippie book... twice: once when young, once after college to see if I REALLY got it. Summary in the words of Ricky (two first names) Bobby: "I wanna go fast... SPLAT!!"
Uh... I only read to page 6. Are there pics of nekkid chicks yet?
This is beginning to look more and more like the Jonathan Livingston Seagull syndrome.
Have you read the story of Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach? The seagull who was rejected by his flock for being different.
Do you ever get the feeling that you simply don’t fit in anywhere? That literally nobody on the planet views life through your eyes?
Actually, I read that dumb hippie book... twice: once when young, once after college to see if I REALLY got it. Summary in the words of Ricky (two first names) Bobby: "I wanna go fast... SPLAT!!"
Uh... I only read to page 6. Are there pics of nekkid chicks yet?
_______________________________________
Bigfish:
The Johnathan Livingston Seagull syndrome, and it's comments, are now apparently prolific. It is worthless diatribe despite our efforts.
And in the same breath, you insult the general population. One could safely assume it is all-inclusive with wording such as:
Quote
It's a sad day for American that I apparently cannot reach out to so many dysfunctional, low mentality, fellow gun owners who are drinking the purple lemonade.
Perhaps your approach is somewhat too condescending for such a group? Or, perhaps *they* sense a Superiority complex and no substance to back it up.
There is, if even grudgingly, respect for the knowledgeable here, even if the approach is rough---hint.
Given some of the information I've seen you give, and your response to even a polite correction, it's no wonder you get the reception you do.
Remember, when you point a finger at someone, you have three pointing back at you.
Hey Tibbe,.....can the BS for a bit, and READ this.
When finished reading it, READ IT AGAIN, 'cuz it's BANG ON !
is the fact that you didn't understand the OP's question.
Oh, he understood it. He was just repeatedly wrong about the answer. Rather than man up and say "Dang, I was wrong. Thanks for the good info" he just keeps talking down to us and saying we're too stupid to understand the actual truth and besides, he has links to law enforcement so how could we possibly doubt him?
Don't have any use for anybody who can't admit when he's wrong.
I was gonna ask the tibster to post an actual photo of himself with a dead animal. But I have a hunch the only way you'll see a photo of him is to google "delusions of grandeur......"
I was gonna ask the tibster to post an actual photo of himself with a dead animal. But I have a hunch the only way you'll see a photo of him is to google "delusions of grandeur......"
In years past, several rectal orifices like him have posted pics as you suggest, all swiped from somewhere else of course, so these trolls have learned at least that much...
I was gonna ask the tibster to post an actual photo of himself with a dead animal. But I have a hunch the only way you'll see a photo of him is to google "delusions of grandeur......"
What stands me apart is that I abide by the house rules. I do not inflict personal insults and I am always polite and respectful.
Face it fellers, we're all idiots who have no clue. (And that goes especially for you Ingwetibbe. And you're obviously a lot less older than your snot-rocket pictures look, meaning they're's [sic] no way you have a clue........especially!)
I was gonna ask the tibster to post an actual photo of himself with a dead animal. But I have a hunch the only way you'll see a photo of him is to google "delusions of grandeur......"
He has more than one camp. Mine was up north. It was quite a drive of a couple of hours from his home town , then in the middle of nowhere, took a small tracked ATV for 3 hours back in to a lake shore, then across the lake to a nice cabin. There were only three hunters in the camp. The cook was my guides sister, a fabulous cook who made fresh bread and excellent table fare.
On the first day my guide and I left the cabin at 9:00 AM. We walked 50 feet and saw a cow with a calf. Another 500 yards we spotted a moose lurking back in the brush. Maybe 200 - 300 yards more we looked back and saw three bulls trotting across in open ground. About 200 yards away. I spined him on the 3rd shot. There were also two other holes in him. 3 for 3 standing running shots.
By 10:30 AM I was back in the cabin. My guide took the ATV and skinned/dismembered the moose. I took a shower and lounged around the cabin. Couldn't get out next day. Took my moose to a processor who prepped and froze it and it was ready to go the next morning. I gave 1/2 of it to Aster.
He's a prince of a guy. I've been to his home and met his wife. I hunted with his cousin the previous year for caribou. I hunted 1/2 hour to shoot my caribou first day, morning.
Price of my moose hunt was $4,000 1/3 of Alaska prices. My caribou $3,600. Prices escalated over the years and there is less game now. It's around $6,000 these days.
ALL of the Canadians I met and knew were fabulous people. A special breed. Absolutely the people I like best in this world.
If you speak to Aster tell him Bill Tibbe recommended you. He won't jerk you around he will give you the straight scoop.
* Addendum:
In Asters lesser camp with more traffic those hunters opened the door at 7:00 AM and shot two bulls from the doorway - first morning.
*( Note that Aster deliberately limits traffic to ensure good results. On his chart in his cabin where I stayed, the record dating back at least 10 seasons is 100% success. NO -one ever left his camp without a moose ).
I know the narrator, Peter Fiducia, and his wife, personally and see him about once a year. He is also a prolific author of many books.
Keep in mind:
Those are "Woodland" caribou. Not the same as the migratory barren ground caribou found in Quebec, the Mid-west, West Canada and Alaska. These can't migrate the same because Newfoundland is a BIG island. They disperse/scatter in the summer and do go to the coast in winter. When they are travelling a herd may take half an hour to cross a road. Motorists are stuck and have to wait it out.
The moose racks do not get enormous like the Alaska moose. 50 inches is big. I think about 54" is just about tops. But body size is NOT small. They are BIG animals.
When I hunted caribou there two animals were allowed. I only wanted one. Some others took two. There were 6 of us in that camp. By Wednesday everyone had limited out and we all evacuated by helicopter, about a 1/2 hour flight from a very small, remote village with a road.
There was also caribou hunting in Labrador in the winter from snowmobiles. A female hunt cost $900 back in those days. You could expect 35 degrees below zero Fahrenheit
I spoke to outfitters about a year ago. Things have changed. NOT as many animals. They jacked up prices according to the supply and demand rules. It is cyclical according to biologists. Seems that about every decade there is an up/down population increase - decrease. In this world today take that with a grain of salt as they say. I really don't know. But putting the brakes on hunting, pricewise, will increase population. I don't have, as yet, any medical/biological info that is definitive and/or reliable.
Words of advice. Check it out carefully. Don't book anywhere that people can drive to. Either fly in by chopper or ATV. Some areas have more animals than others. Up north the natives told me that in the summer, along one road, over a stretch of 10 or 20 miles they could count 130 moose lounging by the side of the road.
In the caribou camp it rained heavily and we were all inside. I suited up in rain gear and went out for a walk. I didn't take 300 steps until I say a stag probably not more than 150 - 200 yards from me. He just looked at me. It's possible that this is the first time he ever say a human being. I slowly back pedaled and the guides all saw me. They all rolled out. They were all in a separate, adjacent cabin. My bunk mate came out half dressed, rifle in hand, and promptly dispatched the stag. It couldn't have been more than 400 yard from the cabin.
I jazzed him and told him I had come out the night before and tied it up for him. He just looked at me and smiled.
If you don't get your animal in the first couple of days you may have a LOT of walking to do. Be in shape. And I do mean a LOT of walking and probably long shots 300 yards or more.
Those Canadian guides are phenomenal. You may walk for hours. When you connect they skin and dismember it. They will back pack 100 pounds or more and carry it back, walking hours. One guide, the last to connect, came back late afternoon with the second animal and he looked like death warmed over. The anguish on his face was shocking. He was truly at the end of his rope with the gas tank empty. Talk about guts, stamina and determination.
I'll leave the bird shooting and Atlantic Native Salmon fishing for some other time.
Exactly. And when ingwe posts photos of a purported directional flatulant, it raises some important questions in the minds of readers such as myself. So I will politely ask him to confirm:
1) Are you personally claiming to be the flatulator? 2) When you say you don't always fart, you're lying, aren't you? 3) Were there any witnesses to these alleged directional farts? 4) What were their names, addresses, and phone numbers?
Posting photos of African game, Kudus and Zebras leaves the readers, such as me, with question about the actual facts.
Thus I will ask you politely to confirm:
* Are you personally claiming to be the hunter? Yes. * What county did you hunt? You mean country,South Africa. * What year ? October 1995 * Who was your PH. Phone, address, E-mail or other. No longer in business.
Exactly. And when ingwe posts photos of a purported directional flatulant, it raises some important questions in the minds of readers such as myself. So I will politely ask him to confirm:
1) Are you personally claiming to be the flatulator? 2) When you say you don't always fart, you're lying, aren't you? 3) Were there any witnesses to these alleged directional farts? 4) What were their names, addresses, and phone numbers?
Exactly. And when ingwe posts photos of a purported directional flatulant, it raises some important questions in the minds of readers such as myself. So I will politely ask him to confirm:
1) Are you personally claiming to be the flatulator? But, of course. Credit where credit is due. 2) When you say you don't always fart, you're lying, aren't you? I never lie, and I'm always right. 3) Were there any witnesses to these alleged directional farts? Yes, until their eyes started watering from the smell... 4) What were their names, addresses, and phone numbers? Without exception they have all declined comment, and refuse to return contact.
Hope that makes you and Tibbe happy.
P.S. I don't know this guy...never saw him before.....
Posting photos of African game, Kudus and Zebras leaves the readers, such as me, with question about the actual facts.
Thus I will ask you politely to confirm:
* Are you personally claiming to be the hunter? Yes. * What county did you hunt? You mean country,South Africa. * What year ? October 1995 * Who was your PH. Phone, address, E-mail or other. No longer in business.
Any other questions? _______________________________________________________________
That little critter looks too big to be a Dik Dik.
FYI I had a pet Dik Dik in my yard when I lived in Addis Ababa Ethiopia, on the 4 acre estate of Ato Yilma Derssa. Minister of Finance, on the inner Council of Emperor Haile Selkassie. I was the Manager of WATENCO, Water Engineering Company, owned by Frank Basil, Athens , Greece. None the less an American associated with Ralph M. Parsons, AEC who I worked for too for years.
There is actually a Village in Ethiopia with my name -Tibbe, 125 km West of Adds, very remote and primitive.
As residents we didn't "Safari:" - we hunted at will. It was extremely treacherous due to the Eritrean Rebels in the North and the "Shiftas" in the East.
None the less you could see 10,000 head of game in a day.
Ethiopia is still the benefactor of much game and some exotic but expensive and poorly available to hunters.
Exactly. And when ingwe posts photos of a purported directional flatulant, it raises some important questions in the minds of readers such as myself. So I will politely ask him to confirm:
1) Are you personally claiming to be the flatulator? But, of course. Credit where credit is due. 2) When you say you don't always fart, you're lying, aren't you? I never lie, and I'm always right. 3) Were there any witnesses to these alleged directional farts? Yes, until their eyes started watering from the smell... 4) What were their names, addresses, and phone numbers? Without exception they have all declined comment, and refuse to return contact.
Hope that makes you and Tibbe happy.
P.S. I don't know this guy...never saw him before.....
P.S. I don't know this guy...never saw him before.....
Looks a lot like the guy who wrote the intro to the .300 H&H for the Barnes #4 reloading manual but the guy in the Barnes picture looks much less run down.
There are a lot of little pricks that sit around a computer in their momma's basement that love to screw with people just because they can. In the last 8 years I've been the victim of identity theft twice and stolen credit card numbers twice. I'm still trying to fix the identity theft issue from 2007 where some prick in Columbus Ohio stole my social security number and had a phone turned on in my name.
What Steelhead posted is a valid problem. There are enough losers out there that will do something like that just because they're bored. There doesn't have to be any real reason behind it, it's just that they're losers and want to screw with someone that day. I've had enough of it happen to me that I don't want to risk it. It's the reason that you'll never see me post a photo of myself, my family, my vehicles license plates, or anything that can identify where I live on the internet.
I never heard of Identity theft until I came to the US and it does not have to exist.
The US is way behind in common sense and intellect when it comes to consumer affairs.
It is created by the mandatory business use of the social security number which is obviously insecure, and not supported by government which can simply default any claim against you ( any person) by stating that if they do not have your verified signature within a purchase contract, the claim against you is null and void. End of it.
Looks like you had a good hunt. What else did you shoot? Be a sport and share, tell us more. I like to see it.
Personally, and honestly, I like hunting the so called "plains game" more than the big 5 which does nothing for me. And you couldn't pay me enough to shoot a "cat" of any category. Ethiopia had black leopards. It took 6 skins to make a coat in Paris which sold for $14,000. I offered one to my wife and she turned it down saying she didn't like black!
I like the stuff that you can eat. Unfortunately the African cooks spice it up and disguise it so much that it is unrecognizable.
Now if you want to go into exotic and mysterious animals consider the Gaur.
I lived in Vietnam for 5 years. The French Colonials had huge rubber plantations. The Gaur were prolific. Huge and very aggressive. Easy to shoot.
The water buffalo were very much domesticated and little kids 10 years old lead them around by the nose. Shooting a water buffalo was like shooting some farmers cow in his barnyard.
Up in the mountains the Montanards lived. They were very different from the Vietnamese, primitive, living communally in long grass huts. The tigers raided them a lot. I was invited many times to hunt but declined. Pigs on the plantations were super abundant among the rubber trees, attracted by and feeding on nuts falling from the trees.
And yes there were black bears. A friend kept a cub for some time.
I have no clue at all as to how. I researched with family and we are Bentheimers. It' a Principality between Germany and the Netherlands traced back to the 11th century.
I was guided by Orion, if that matters, in Alaska. I kilt it myself, on the very same day, and shortly after the moment I nearly broke my neck. Unlike a couple rifles I own, that 30-06 is serial numbered. (The 162 grain Core-lokt bullet however, was not micro-stamped.)
Looks like you had a good hunt. What else did you shoot? Be a sport and share, tell us more. I like to see it.
Personally, and honestly, I like hunting the so called "plains game" more than the big 5 which does nothing for me. And you couldn't pay me enough to shoot a "cat" of any category. Ethiopia had black leopards. It took 6 skins to make a coat in Paris which sold for $14,000. I offered one to my wife and she turned it down saying she didn't like black!
I like the stuff that you can eat. Unfortunately the African cooks spice it up and disguise it so much that it is unrecognizable.
Now if you want to go into exotic and mysterious animals consider the Gaur.
I lived in Vietnam for 5 years. The French Colonials had huge rubber plantations. The Gaur were prolific. Huge and very aggressive. Easy to shoot.
The water buffalo were very much domesticated and little kids 10 years old lead them around by the nose. Shooting a water buffalo was like shooting some farmers cow in his barnyard.
Up in the mountains the Montanards lived. They were very different from the Vietnamese, primitive, living communally in long grass huts. The tigers raided them a lot. I was invited many times to hunt but declined. Pigs on the plantations were super abundant among the rubber trees, attracted by and feeding on nuts falling from the trees.
And yes there were black bears. A friend kept a cub for some time.
I have no clue at all as to how. I researched with family and we are Bentheimers. It' a Principality between Germany and the Netherlands traced back to the 11th century.
Looks like a Kudu that got his springer slipped. Killed with a .375 I bet. ;-)
I think that you meant "klipped".
It's a Steenbok.
And it's was killed with a .30/06 using a 180 gr Nosler Partition.
You're right, I did mean klipped, Darn auto correct. I can't proof read and was wrong on the animal and caliber. I'm definitely not smart enough to post in this thread. I certainly envy the hunting experience of you that have had the opportunity to hunt Africa more than I.
Fun to experience your hunts vicariously though, thanks!
Looks like a Kudu that got his springer slipped. Killed with a .375 I bet. ;-)
I think that you meant "klipped".
It's a Steenbok.
And it's was killed with a .30/06 using a 180 gr Nosler Partition.
You're right, I did mean klipped, Darn auto correct. I can't proof read and was wrong on the animal and caliber. I'm definitely not smart enough to post in this thread. I certainly envy the hunting experience of you that have had the opportunity to hunt Africa more than I.
Fun to experience your hunts vicariously though, thanks!
b
Balew6254 you can go to Africa,it's not that hard to do. Matter of fact,my wife and I are going late next year for a lioness hunt in South Africa. I'm hunting she's watching.
Judging from your selections of trophy's you must have gone on a plains game trip in Namibia with the Dutchmen. There should be lots more animals as they are/were quite diverse and fairly abundant.
Posting photos of African game, Kudus and Zebras leaves the readers, such as me, with question about the actual facts.
Thus I will ask you politely to confirm:
* Are you personally claiming to be the hunter? Yes. * What county did you hunt? You mean country,South Africa. * What year ? October 1995 * Who was your PH. Phone, address, E-mail or other. No longer in business.
Judging from your selections of trophy's you must have gone on a plains game trip in Namibia with the Dutchmen. There should be lots more animals as they are/were quite diverse and fairly abundant.
I will attempt to respond to your inquiry However it is difficult to do so as it is important to use the proper nomenclature and you did not provide enough detail to run your query though google, quickload or Auto Cad.
My family descends from an 8th century Bavarian encounter of a few minutes duration between a dairy maid and a group of nomadic sheepherders or it could have been between a sheepherder and a group of dairy maids. I am not one hundred percent clear on which as my attempts to search for "sheepherders + brief sexual encounter" keeps getting blocked by parental controls.
Also, its important to specify which .257 roberts you are asking about. Although they use the same size case head the .257 Roberts, .257 Remington Roberts, .257-7mmx57, .257-9.3x57, .257-6mm Remington all show different velocity results in quick load depending on the powder choice and barrel length. You did not specify which powder you were asking about so I assumed that you were using Unique. Which leads us to another inquiry of which version of Unique as loads developed using the vintage 1920's Unique which I bought at a garage sale in a plastic one pound container with unquestioned provenance to Elmer Keith as it had the letter "E" written on it in pencil, which I subsequently used to dispatch a charging hare, would be vastly different from the data quickload provides for one of the various Weatherby cartridges.
Judging from your selections of trophy's you must have gone on a plains game trip in Namibia with the Dutchmen. There should be lots more animals as they are/were quite diverse and fairly abundant.
I will attempt to respond to your inquiry However it is difficult to do so as it is important to use the proper nomenclature and you did not provide enough detail to run your query though google, quickload or Auto Cad.
My family descends from an 8th century Bavarian encounter of a few minutes duration between a dairy maid and a group of nomadic sheepherders or it could have been between a sheepherder and a group of dairy maids. I am not one hundred percent clear on which as my attempts to search for "sheepherders + brief sexual encounter" keeps getting blocked by parental controls.
Also, its important to specify which .257 roberts you are asking about. Although they use the same size case head the .257 Roberts, .257 Remington Roberts, .257-7mmx57, .257-9.3x57, .257-6mm Remington all show different velocity results in quick load depending on the powder choice and barrel length. You did not specify which powder you were asking about so I assumed that you were using Unique. Which leads us to another inquiry of which version of Unique as loads developed using the vintage 1920's Unique which I bought at a garage sale in a plastic one pound container with unquestioned provenance to Elmer Keith as it had the letter "E" written on it in pencil, which I subsequently used to dispatch a charging hare, would be vastly different from the data quickload provides for one of the various Weatherby cartridges.
The least I can say for you is that you were at least polite and tried to be amusing if not pejoratively sarcastic.
The most I can say is you didn't use any expletives, didn't launch any personal direct attacks or assassinate character. Too there was an absence of malicious, sanctimonious hypocrisy.
But alas you, none the less, fell into the rather disappointing category of the small minority that are more interested in agitating and degrading the site than to offering anything objective, constructive or with a modicum of reality. I've been on these various hunting forums for 12-15 years now and this one surely is right up there in becoming the armpit thanks to the over abundance of totally worthless mumbo jumbo that doesn't even have a smidgen of objectivity related to the original posters main theme. .
I think that what you were/was trying to portray is/was my tendency to explore/examine in depth most matters. That's just my upbringing, education, experience. I have seen all too often far too many mistakes, errors, omissions due to haste, superficial slap dash replies, laziness and yes too stupidity.
I could say some more additional things that wouldn't be very pleasant but as I have amplified abundantly/repeatedly, I abide by the house rules, I do not engage in personal attacks, I am always polite and courteous and I try to help people.
For posters that don't like my posts - don't read. IGNORE!
The reason people don't simply ignore your postings is that you insist on making liberal-like comments. And then you bluster and try to make being wrong sound as if it isn't.
IOW, in the words of the well-regarded (in hindsight anyway) Ronald Reagan, “It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
I've been on these various hunting forums for 12-15 years now and this one surely is right up there in becoming the armpit . . .
I agree!
And, if all the relentless, negative, inappropriate things festering upon the Campfire were ingredients for a cake - You sir, would be the frosting atop !
Originally Posted by BullShooter on 09/05/15 at 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe on 09/05/15 10:50 AM
... When the gun arrives without a serial number that's when the fun begins with the Ringwood police. ...
What laws, either state or municipal, support the Ringwood police in their "fun"? Are you stating that they are enforcing some law? What is that law? ... I'll await your citation of the New Jersey law that requires serial numbers on rifles made before 1968.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe on 09/05/15 11:18 PM
... Bullshooter: I acknowledge your query's. Give me a little time. I will consult with the Ringwood police and get back to you. ...
William_E_Tibbe- It has been more than eight days since you promised me a reply. I think I have been pretty patient.
What New Jersey laws require serial numbers on rifles made before 1968?
A specific citation to the pertinent part of the New Jersey Statutes Annotated (probably somewhere in Section 2C.) will be acceptable. I searched these and found nothing, but your sources may be able to do better.
Sorry to say that in the intervening days I was subjected to some pretty disgusting insults and accusations impugning my credibility and, by the way, I think that you, thanks to your inquisitiveness and searching, went a long way furnishing "proof" when you posted my photo with my moose.
It's a tiny force, I think about three. When I shipped some of my guns to my son *( 4 so far ) he had to deal with them several times and from his conversation they pretty much make the rules. The chief was very difficult to contact and gave my son quite a hard time.
Your request it superfluous and hypothetical. I really don't have any further interest now in bugging the Ringwood police with such a question so to save myself harmless from more abuse I suggest that YOU ring them up and get it straight from the horses mouth. Thus it serves several purposes:
* You can rely on their credibility. * I won't be in the middle of it. * I won't have to waste my time.
The reason people don't simply ignore your postings is that you insist on making liberal-like comments. And then you bluster and try to make being wrong sound as if it isn't.
IOW, in the words of the well-regarded (in hindsight anyway) Ronald Reagan, “It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
This may be an oops !!! From your questioning I thought you were inviting second guesses.
I have extensively researched places to go and I'm presently into contemplation a spot for my Grandson on his first foreign adventure.
Namibia keeps coming up VERY high on the radar screen as an abundance of variety in plains game at REASONABLE prices.
I'll confess also that I am very partial to the Dutch due to my ancestry, however, from my info, E-mails and phone conversations there are several really GOOD outfitters in Namibia that offer home style accommodations, super food and plenty of plains game of extensive variety. Some prices I came up with are competitive with an American single animal hunt.
I don't want to rain on South Africa's parade but you may find now many "game farms" offering fenced animals and fewer free ranging. And spotted varieties widely scattered.
But this segment of the website isn't the best place: " Gun Writers" forum to post. Maybe better to post in the Africa sections.
Or alternately on the AR "Accurate Reloading" website.
I already posted quite a bit on my life experienced so far. Not much left.
Nobody cares about your life experiences, really.
How about a simple: "I was wrong about no serial numbers being illegal. Thanks for educating me."
Trust me, it doesn't hurt. The first few times are the hardest while you retrain your ego after 83 years of pretending to be perfect, but you'll eventually find that people actually like you when you act human and can talk to them without being a blowhard.
This may be an oops !!! From your questioning I thought you were inviting second guesses.
I have extensively researched places to go and I'm presently into contemplation a spot for my Grandson on his first foreign adventure.
Namibia keeps coming up VERY high on the radar screen as an abundance of variety in plains game at REASONABLE prices.
I'll confess also that I am very partial to the Dutch due to my ancestry, however, from my info, E-mails and phone conversations there are several really GOOD outfitters in Namibia that offer home style accommodations, super food and plenty of plains game of extensive variety. Some prices I came up with are competitive with an American single animal hunt.
I don't want to rain on South Africa's parade but you may find now many "game farms" offering fenced animals and fewer free ranging. And spotted varieties widely scattered.
But this segment of the website isn't the best place: " Gun Writers" forum to post. Maybe better to post in the Africa sections.
Or alternately on the AR "Accurate Reloading" website.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe on 09/05/15 11:18 PM, as edited on 09/05/15 11:48 PM
I will consult with the Ringwood police and get back to you.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe on 09/14/15 07:53 PM
... I really don't have any further interest now in bugging the Ringwood police with such a question so to save myself harmless from more abuse I suggest that YOU ring them up and get it straight from the horses mouth. Thus it serves several purposes:
* You can rely on their credibility. * I won't be in the middle of it. * I won't have to waste my time. ...
William_E_Tibbe- Up to this point I had considered you to be a gentleman and an individual whose word could be trusted.
I already posted quite a bit on my life experienced so far. Not much left.
Nobody cares about your life experiences, really.
How about a simple: "I was wrong about no serial numbers being illegal. Thanks for educating me."
Trust me, it doesn't hurt. The first few times are the hardest while you retrain your ego after 83 years of pretending to be perfect, but you'll eventually find that people actually like you when you act human and can talk to them without being a blowhard.
I'm actually sincere when I say I appreciate your opinion. When you get to my station in life you question if you are thankful to still be alive ? My memory is faltering on me and I do make egregious mistakes. My vision is also failing slowly.
None the less as I amplified the serial number issue is one visited and defined to whit:
* Old missing serial numbers were not stamped on .22 rim fire and shot guns.
* Anyone who claims to own a center fire rifle manufactured by a reputable gun manufacturer, without a valid serial number, is simply a liar and a disingenuous fraud.
I'm actually sincere when I say I appreciate your opinion. When you get to my station in life you question if you are thankful to still be alive ? My memory is faltering on me and I do make egregious mistakes. My vision is also failing slowly.
None the less as I amplified the serial number issue is one visited and defined to whit:
* Old missing serial numbers were not stamped on .22 rim fire and shot guns.
* Anyone who claims to own a center fire rifle manufactured by a reputable gun manufacturer, without a valid serial number, is simply a liar and a disingenuous fraud.
And I posted a picture of a 1950 savage 342 22 Hornet (which is a centerfire) that I own which does not have a serial number. There are also a LOT of Savage 340's and Steven's 325's from the 40's/50's in 30-30 with no serial numbers - I know this because I've owned one personally.
I'm actually shocked at the numbers of low level halfwits that are coming out of the woodwork to muck up the site. Completely worthless posts in clear violation of the house rules.
I abide by the house rules. I do not launch personal attacks. I do not engage in unfounded insults and denigration of others. I do not use expletives. I am always polite and respectful.
That is clearly above and beyond the mental capacity of that very small cabal of pseudo internet brigands that apparently are content in wallowing in the slop.
Pretty much all I learned from this thread is that Tibbe is one of those pathetic drama queens who acts offended and says he's going to leave... and then doesn't. Of course, at his age, this forum may be all he has going in his life. It's just too bad that all those years didn't leave him with something worthwhile to offer.
I'm actually shocked at the numbers of low level halfwits that are coming out of the woodwork to muck up the site. Completely worthless posts in clear violation of the house rules.
I abide by the house rules. I do not launch personal attacks. I do not engage in unfounded insults and denigration of others. I do not use expletives. I am always polite and respectful.
That is clearly above and beyond the mental capacity of that very small cabal of pseudo internet brigands that apparently are content in wallowing in the slop.
"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments"
By your very own link, you fit the description.
You've lost the argument about serial numbers, MOVE ON!!!
But of course, you won't because you're a troll...
I abide by the house rules. I do not launch personal attacks. I do not engage in unfounded insults and denigration of others. I do not use expletives. I am always polite and respectful.
You mean except for when you are calling me a fraud?
I don't know why you want to persist is chasing this peripheral issue that has already been beat to death. But once again I will say:
Way back at the inception I injected some qualifiers and exceptions:
* There may be some "antique" guns without serial numbers. * There may be some guns in "estate collections". * There could be some wildcatters or self made guns or guns re-barreled or modified by a gunsmith after market, or guns that simply had the serial numbers wiped off.
When you speak of Savage Stevens you are going back to 1864, the merger and then the split and closure of one in 1936.
I spoke today to one gun dealer that I had a lot of dealings with over many years. I asked him if he ever saw guns come in without serial numbers and he said no. Further in his state private owners cannot sell guns to each other any more due to the "Safe Act". The gun has to go through a FFL and he said further that if there was any indication at all that the serial number had been removed he wouldn't touch it. He added that military guns in WW11 all had serial numbers and even those in WW1 also had SN's.
You haven't given the age of your guns, when you acquired them and from whom and all pertinent history. You expect people to believe you on faith! Unless these guns were acquired by your grandfather and were originals in the family I doubt that you can even give the true history of them accurately.
The numbers of center fire rifles in existence, without SN's, is comparatively miniscule. As I amplified above, a major, successful gun dealer in business decades who has sold thousands of guns doesn't see guns without SN's.
You don't seem to grasp the relative magnitude. Instead you persist in efforts to build grandiose, misguided mountains out of mole hills. For what motive remains to discover. Either for the purpose of deliberately antagonizing and trying to fire up an argument or for the purpose of attempting to discredit me ? But the fact remains that you selectively cherry pick comments and bury the peripheral conditions while zooming up selective comments.
Why should I believe you? You won't believe me. That little cabal of gang bangers persisted in unloading on me with a plethora of insults and malicious sniping. Their lips got stiffened when my photo was posted - egad, with an animal !!! But conversely I didn't see any of their photos with animals.
I asked anyone who owned a rifle without a serial number to raise their hand and I only saw 3 or 4 at most. There was only one of them that I would actually believe.
I don't know if you are a fraud or not. I only know that you will never be able to prove that you are not.
In the meantime your post was civil and polite enough and I do appreciate that.
The first law of holes, or the law of holes, is an adage which states that "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging".[1][2] The meaning behind it is that if you find yourself in an untenable position, you should stop and change what you are doing, rather than carrying on and exacerbating the situation.
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet. Nor do that disgraceful conglomeration of "wrong way Corrigans".
Not my problem however. Somewhat frightening that I, as a senior citizen, will leave my country in the hands of such uncouth, misguided, undereducated spoilers.
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
It's interesting to me. I find most older gentlemen to be far more respectful and formal in conversations on the web much more like they would be face to face. You seem to be the exception. You mask your rudeness behind a façade of civility.
If you behave like this face to face I'm pretty sure you have very few real friends and have a pretty good track record getting your ass kicked.
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
It's interesting to me. I find most older gentlemen to be far more respectful and formal in conversations on the web much more like they would be face to face. You seem to be the exception. You mask your rudeness behind a façade of civility.
If you behave like this face to face I'm pretty sure you have very few real friends and have a pretty good track record getting your ass kicked.
Why would you want to drop you skivvies and show your posterior, on an international forum; confirming alliance with the little cabal and above all convincing Foreigners that Americans are jerks and screwballs ? Do you know what Ugly Americans are overseas ? ___________________________________________________________
I have gone to some length to demonstrate that I am polite, courteous, do not use expletives, do not launch personal attacks and want to help people. All commendable attributes that a role model would promote. Yet you elect to challenge, impugn, degrade, sully, and do whatever your mind comes to - to destruct with malicious malevolence those positive attributes.
What a sad day for that segment of my fellow Americans that are so bent on tearing down the good and supplanting it with evil.
I'm done here on this thread. No more from me.
I've been on these hunting forums for 12-15 years and it is always the same old carbon copy of those pervasive low life's that spoil everything. That little segment that are world class trouble makers.
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
It's interesting to me. I find most older gentlemen to be far more respectful and formal in conversations on the web much more like they would be face to face. You seem to be the exception. You mask your rudeness behind a façade of civility.
If you behave like this face to face I'm pretty sure you have very few real friends and have a pretty good track record getting your ass kicked.
Why would you want to drop you skivvies and show your posterior, on an international forum; confirming alliance with the little cabal and above all convincing Foreigners that Americans are jerks and screwballs ?
Funny. I've met on the order of 50-60 of these "Cabal" folks face to face over the years. Hunted a few critters, shared a few drinks and a few superb meals and a general good time. I think I have a much better feel for their measure than you. You might want to check just who is showing their posterior. I'd suggest the use of a mirror.
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
UH! - No, it was meant to you Mr. Tibbe.
If you can put aside your mistaken ideas long enough to read this perhaps you will understand that your take on serial numbers is in error. It is very good disertation on the subject and explains it quite thoroughly.
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
It's interesting to me. I find most older gentlemen to be far more respectful and formal in conversations on the web much more like they would be face to face. You seem to be the exception. You mask your rudeness behind a façade of civility.
If you behave like this face to face I'm pretty sure you have very few real friends and have a pretty good track record getting your ass kicked.
Just think of him as Herpes Simplex of this forum...
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
It's interesting to me. I find most older gentlemen to be far more respectful and formal in conversations on the web much more like they would be face to face. You seem to be the exception. You mask your rudeness behind a façade of civility.
If you behave like this face to face I'm pretty sure you have very few real friends and have a pretty good track record getting your ass kicked.
Old fools were once young fools. The process of aging does not in and of itself bestow wisdom on one.
There are certainly professions and walks of life where one can run their mouth without risk of getting their ass kicked.
... If you can put aside your mistaken ideas long enough to read this perhaps you will understand that your take on serial numbers is in error. It is very good disertation on the subject and explains it quite thoroughly.
drover- Unfortunately for your notion that Mr. Tibbe might read and understand the linked web page, he himself posted a link to it 11 (!) days ago, and then wrote a statement showing complete lack of comprehension.
Originally Posted by William_E_Tibbe on 09/04/15 at 03:42 PM
First thank you and many others for being polite and respectful.
As I have said before; Don't kill the messenger. I don't make this stuff up myself. I could bury this website with data and have the silly, loose screws wearing egg on their faces all day.
Pure and simple a gun without a serial number is ILLEGAL. ...
Good advice. I agree. Unfortunately Calhoun doesn't get it yet.
It's interesting to me. I find most older gentlemen to be far more respectful and formal in conversations on the web much more like they would be face to face. You seem to be the exception. You mask your rudeness behind a façade of civility.
If you behave like this face to face I'm pretty sure you have very few real friends and have a pretty good track record getting your ass kicked.
He already posted way back in the beginning that he can't find three people to vouch for his character.
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Not only are you a fraud, you're also a liar. How many times have you said you were not going to post any more on this thread (or leaving the site), yet you continue to do so?
A complete fraud, and a liar. Hell of a set of accomplishments there.
now that is how you show someone how to shoot those big bastards.....went 180* from what i figured when i hit play, figured the kid was gonna get suckered
1] Please be respectful of other posters at all times. The ability to refrain from personal attacks, obscenities, and flame wars is a minimum requirement for a log at the Campfire.
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I wish we had them this far north. I sure miss 'em. I grew up in the San Diego CA area and we had them come down on to the retaining wall out back to look for lizards. Don't think there's been one seen in that neighborhood since the 70's. (My brother still lives about 5 blocks from where we grew up).
Story behind the pic; I was watering the corn on the left,when I heard a noise,looked up from the magazine I was reading and there it was looking at me. Took out my phone and got the picture.
I figured it looked like feed corn. Either that or you and your family put up a LOT for winter!
Had a neighbor one time asked how my corn tasted one year. I said fine. She told me "ours was sorta tough and starchy". I asked what kind they planted. She said "we picked the seed up at the feed store out of a bulk bin. It said "field corn" on it. " She'd never heard it called that but figured "corn grows in fields so this must be OK seed"
Spent about 90 minutes touring his "shop" in the mid '90s,...an INCREDIBLE warren of interconnected old adobe and stone buildings, right in downtown Prescott, walking distance from Paul Marquart's home and shop, which I was also lucky enough to do some hanging out in. Freds shop ? You literally had to duck through holes in the walls, and in places you would have thought you were in a mine.
Met Fred, and his lovely wife Rachel, who was doing several different engraving jobs. A PPK with a very discrete, tiny sitting nude babe on it's slide stands out, in particular.
Fred had COPD,... the entire place plumbed for Oxygen, and just plugged and unplugged himself into the system as he made his way through his obviously still very busy and productive days. I remember him being quite a humorous and droll character, as opposed to Paul's very quiet, almost preacher like personality.
IIRC,...Danny Pederson was running a rifling machine there, one of the first he built, I think.
The icing on this delicious cake was (of course) handling those incredible Magnum Mausers he was carving, in various stages of completion, and as well, some veteran ones that were racked in the cluttered "Office / Showroom".
Spent about 90 minutes touring his "shop" in the mid '90s,...an INCREDIBLE warren of interconnected old adobe and stone buildings, right in downtown Prescott, walking distance from Paul Marquart's home and shop, which I was also lucky enough to do some hanging out in. Freds shop ? You literally had to duck through holes in the walls, and in places you would have thought you were in a mine.
Met Fred, and his lovely wife Rachel, who was doing several different engraving jobs. A PPK with a very discrete, tiny sitting nude babe on it's slide stands out, in particular.
Fred had COPD,... the entire place plumbed for Oxygen, and just plugged and unplugged himself into the system as he made his way through his obviously still very busy and productive days. I remember him being quite a humorous and droll character, as opposed to Paul's very quiet, almost preacher like personality.
IIRC,...Danny Pederson was running a rifling machine there, one of the first he built, I think.
The icing on this delicious cake was (of course) handling those incredible Magnum Mausers he was carving, in various stages of completion, and as well, some veteran ones that were racked in the cluttered "Office / Showroom".
In case anybody else wants to become part of the William E Tibbe Fraudsters cabal (wet f'ers as I refer to us), there's a pretty nice 1953 Savage 340 at the Cabelas in Rogers, MN. Some freckling on the barrel, but wood is in good shape, good bore and d&t for side mount. For an economy gun, these usually shoot very well.
No Serial Number on it, of course.
Phone number for the store is (763) 493-8600, item # is 4856293.
Mr. Tibbe, feel free to report them to the ATF if you want to.
I recrowned one of those 340s in 30-30 for a friend who picked it up at a flea market,.....it was no show winner, and the term "Freckling" defined, in terms of the exterior.
Mounted some sorta' ancient scope on it , too, IIRC.
With GC cast bullets, that butt ugly old pelter would STACK them.
I recrowned one of those 340s in 30-30 for a friend who picked it up at a flea market,.....it was no show winner, and the term "Freckling" defined, in terms of the exterior.
Mounted some sorta' ancient scope on it , too, IIRC.
With GC cast bullets, that butt ugly old pelter would STACK them.
GTC
Was doing a public sight-in day at the range and helping out all these studly guys with their ultra-mag rifles that they couldn't get to do 4" groups when up steps a petite little farmer's wife in her 40's with a Savage 340 with an old Weaver. Cute gal so all the nearby guys were watching her and chuckling at the fugly gun she had - and it was even a 30-30 BOLT ACTION!!! She sat down, put 2 within 1/2" of the bullseye at 100 yards. She stood up, said "Thanks, just wanted to make sure it was still sighted in." and walked away. Nearby benches were totally silent.
I would have loved to have seen the look on those guys faces.
Of course, she'll never get a deer anyway, we all know a 30-30 won't kill them any longer, as least since the 300 win mag was developed. Especially those tough old deer in your neighborhood.
In case anybody else wants to become part of the William E Tibbe Fraudsters cabal (wet f'ers as I refer to us), there's a pretty nice 1953 Savage 340 at the Cabelas in Rogers, MN. Some freckling on the barrel, but wood is in good shape, good bore and d&t for side mount. For an economy gun, these usually shoot very well.
No Serial Number on it, of course.
Phone number for the store is (763) 493-8600, item # is 4856293.
Mr. Tibbe, feel free to report them to the ATF if you want to.
I have this gun's twin brother. Ugly as a crack whore and the trigger breaks at about 5 pounds with 6 inches of creep. But these last few years my nephews have been using this Ugly Betty to whack does. Nosler 125 grain BTs and IMR3031 will cut clover leaves. She ain't going on the block.
I think you'd be responsible to get a "banana" magazine for that thing in case you get attacked by a herd of them 'yotes
If you're not going to use enough gun at least bring enough ammo.
Does that gun have serial number? That's the real issue here.
Geno
Yup it has a serial number.
If a pack of coyotes attack me and I run out of ammo,well,I'll just tell'em WET is gonna threaten them about being without chips in their necks. Something about their funeral.
In case anybody else wants to become part of the William E Tibbe Fraudsters cabal (wet f'ers as I refer to us), there's a pretty nice 1953 Savage 340 at the Cabelas in Rogers, MN. Some freckling on the barrel, but wood is in good shape, good bore and d&t for side mount. For an economy gun, these usually shoot very well.
No Serial Number on it, of course.
Phone number for the store is (763) 493-8600, item # is 4856293.
Mr. Tibbe, feel free to report them to the ATF if you want to.
I called Cabellas and spoke to Nick. He confirmed everything that you said. He does have the gun, the price is right and he will ship it to an FFL. He said it is old and they do see some guns come in without serial numbers. He acknowledged that he could fill out the Federal forms.\
Where it all breaks down is at the State and local level. He acknowledged that those venues do vary. So compliance with Federal regs does not send you home free by a very long shot.
* I already provided for some minute, rare exceptions to guns without serial numbers. The rare exception instead of wide spread blatant, flagrant practices. I also said it was more rare for center fire rifles made by reputable manufacturers.
This whole hullabaloo that precipitated a deluge of insults and despicable character attacks is not news to me after so many years.
What is surprising is the bold, brave, foolish, flagrant, devil may care, flip the bird to the Webmaster, and to hell with the house rules, attitude.
Some of them apparently didn't get the message in the miscellaneous forum when the posting was closed. They are slow learners.
Notwithstanding my connections with law enforcement I want to amplify that I do not engage in petty, innocuous problems and certainly not the guns you mentioned. I only involve in the hard core trafficking of guns cross border into the hands of the cartels.
Notwithstanding my connections with law enforcement I want to amplify that I do not engage in petty, innocuous problems and certainly not the guns you mentioned. I only involve in the hard core trafficking of guns cross border into the hands of the cartels.
Notwithstanding my connections with law enforcement I want to amplify that I do not engage in petty, innocuous problems and certainly not the guns you mentioned. I only involve in the hard core trafficking of guns cross border into the hands of the cartels.
Specifically I do not peruse these forums at all with intent to glean any information. While entertaining and disgusting these are actually wasteland. In over 15 years I have never obtained anything beneficial to law enforcement from these hunting forums.
Notwithstanding my connections with law enforcement I want to amplify that I do not engage in petty, innocuous problems and certainly not the guns you mentioned. I only involve in the hard core trafficking of guns cross border into the hands of the cartels.
Specifically I do not peruse these forums at all with intent to glean any information. While entertaining and disgusting these are actually wasteland. In over 15 years I have never obtained anything beneficial to law enforcement from these hunting forums.
Specifically I do not peruse these forums at all with intent to glean any information. While entertaining and disgusting these are actually wasteland. In over 15 years I have never obtained anything beneficial to law enforcement from these hunting forums.
So.. you do not peruse these forums with the intent to glean information, but you do admit that you are watching for information to turn over to law enforcement.
???? WTH ????
I'm sure the FBI treasures all of the snitching... ummm, sorry... critical information on national infrastructure that you've passed to them.
I called Cabellas and spoke to Nick. He confirmed everything that you said. He does have the gun, the price is right and he will ship it to an FFL. He said it is old and they do see some guns come in without serial numbers. He acknowledged that he could fill out the Federal forms.
Wow. Who woulda' thunk?
But seriously WET, you should keep checking up on this. The information that comes out of the average Cabelas store employee is probably less reliable than what you read on the internet.
Notwithstanding my connections with law enforcement I want to amplify that I do not engage in petty, innocuous problems and certainly not the guns you mentioned. I only involve in the hard core trafficking of guns cross border into the hands of the cartels.
Specifically I do not peruse these forums at all with intent to glean any information. While entertaining and disgusting these are actually wasteland. In over 15 years I have never obtained anything beneficial to law enforcement from these hunting forums.
In other words, some sorta' wanna' be.
GTC
Snitch.
He's a wannabe snitch. Google infragard. For more entertainment google infragard snitch.
I stand squarely upon my statement because it is factual and indisputable.
Where you folks get lost on the trail is when it gets complicated.
I didn't say ALL guns without serial numbers are illegal.
What I did also say was that the numbers of guns without serial numbers are miniscule, practically unheard of.
Where your premise falls down completely it the simple elementary fact that neither you nor anyone else here can prove that a gun without a serial number was actually produced by a reputable manufacturer, a wildcatter, a custom gunsmith or an at home hobbyist.
As another wise sage said here; You can't believe anything a Cabella's salesman tells you nor anything you read on the internet.
If this went to court before Judge Judy Scheindlin, you as plaintiff, she would dismiss your case for lack of evidence.
Perhaps Mr. Bin can create a special forum for Mr. Tibbe and others that share his unique "expertise" where they can beat their pathetic little drums until their eyes bleed.
Other special folks can be nominated to attend as needed.
You squirm around mincing words worse than Bill Clinton, testifying before Congress, that "I did not have sex with that woman." Continually trying to redefine what you said, WHEN IT'S STILL THERE TO BE SEEN, is simply asinine. A man would admit he was wrong, and carry on. What are YOU going to do?
You sure post a lot, for somebody that quit posting on this thread...
The other guys keep posting too, even though you told them not to.
I've been sitting by the phone waiting to order flowers for their funerals......
But remain disappointed...
Oh well......I expected too much of a douche nozzle.... _____________________________________________
Yep!
I did want to shut the link down in respect for the owner. It has gone on far too long. I could zip it up and it would probably die. But it is abundantly clear that many here want to perpetuate it by continuing to post and bring it up to first topic.
I've been at this for so many years that it has become meaningless to me.
Some of the posers are so far off the rails that I wonder if they have any residual logic left at all.
I'm always happy to debate if you will belay the insults and personal assassinates.
Seems that some/many of the old timer posters have been reduced to posting porn photos supplanting any logical contributions to the gun matters
As I reiterated I don't know it these are liberal, Democrat saboteur's , latent, Homos.
I did let it lay several times for several days but the cabal of bad asses weren't happy. They persisted in bugging me and asking more questions.
You're right in saying that I should have let it lay and in ignoring. Some of these participants are really very good Guys that I respect. That are exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced. From my take in your input I have to categorize you as one of the logical, well balanced, concerned participants.
The serious, well balanced gun owners shooters, re-loaders deserve respect and cogent answers to legitimate questions.
The bombardment of photos of scantily clad females apparently seems to re-bolster my premise that this has gone on too far long with out addressing the main issue.
I hope that you can agree that supplanting legitimate answers to posters questions asking for valid technology, by porn, may be entertain for the perverts but certainly not for 90% of the serious, good and decent fellow gun enthusiasts that I know.
All this superfluous discussion is distracting from the great wisdom of the great William E Tibbe. You people better straighten up and fly right or he'll report us, or something.
On the other hand, the beauty of the female form is ever fascinating to me so please carry on!
Oh, was down in the gunsafe today and admiring a 1947 (determined by barrel code) Remington 541 Scoremaster that had been in the closet on our place in KY for years. Last year I brought it home and cleaned it up and I thought, wow Remington was a useless small-time manufacturer for not having put a serial # on all those rifles.
All this superfluous discussion is distracting from the great wisdom of the great William E Tibbe. You people better straighten up and fly right or he'll report us, or something.
On the other hand, the beauty of the female form is ever fascinating to me so please carry on!
Oh, was down in the gunsafe today and admiring a 1947 (determined by barrel code) Remington 541 Scoremaster that had been in the closet on our place in KY for years. Last year I brought it home and cleaned it up and I thought, wow Remington was a useless small-time manufacturer for not having put a serial # on all those rifles.
All this superfluous discussion is distracting from the great wisdom of the great William E Tibbe. You people better straighten up and fly right or he'll report us, or something.
On the other hand, the beauty of the female form is ever fascinating to me so please carry on!
Oh, was down in the gunsafe today and admiring a 1947 (determined by barrel code) Remington 541 Scoremaster that had been in the closet on our place in KY for years. Last year I brought it home and cleaned it up and I thought, wow Remington was a useless small-time manufacturer for not having put a serial # on all those rifles.
One COULD say something about LARGE runs of Remington 513 Ts that were NOT numbered at their manufacture, were sold in large lots to qualified shooting organizations ( one I was involved with) by CMP, and the unbelievably Foxtrot Uniform / Charlie Sierra debacle that ensued when one's local club went to transfer the inventory,....and became a paper trail NIGHTMARE, with a bunch of overbearing self righteous , bombastic CLOWNS like WET, jumping in with both feet,....FURTHER screwing up what should have been a simple solution.
Let me repeat, BOMBASTIC< OVER BEARING CLOWNS (with a wannabe "regulatory expert" psyche)
Won't go there, ....I don't need a bunch of half baked New Yorkers and New Jersey cops causing trouble in what's in escense a very simple life.
Wet, don't you DARE give us a lecture about how we should behave, ......you're a phuggin' DISGRACE.
All this superfluous discussion is distracting from the great wisdom of the great William E Tibbe. You people better straighten up and fly right or he'll report us, or something.
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