true, my local shop has one of these 308's as well, there are no bounds to foolishness. The Tavor is short that is a good point, nevertheless I shall stick to my regular DI DD, Colt etc guns I know that they work fine and I know how to make them work....
I've been around a 10" .30-30. They are exceedingly unpleasant. a 8.5" .308 would be Uber unpleasant
No. He is like a character on the Letterman show. It's weirdness so bad it's funny.
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
The Tavor costs what it costs. I have one and expect to have another before the end of the year. On the whole I'd say the Tavor falls into the PDW category and maybe price competes as much with Wilson Combat and other high end handguns much more than with true rifles or even carbines.
My immediate comparison is with an old - LEO marked when I got it so I've had it quite a while and I'd say bonded OK - 6920 M4gerie. Incidentally current 6920 prices from CDNN and others are a fabulous deal buy 2 and half of those instead of a Tavor if you don't already have at least a brace of AR's. Great value and far more versatile than a Tavor - I've got a 24" Shilen barrel in .204 Ruger on a Colt lower and I can't imagine wanting that on a Tavor chassis even if it were free.
No question the AR is a better choice for a designated marksman role and that's more the civilian role in an end of the world as we know it conflict. I'm moving a CQB sight and light from the AR to the Tavor and going with a 3-gun style higher magnification at least available setup on the 6920. I say this to emphasize that I see a difference in roles.
For folks who've gone to the trouble and expense of papering a short barreled AR and adding a can for indoor use I'd go with the Tavor every time - likely enough in 9x19 with the cute and short suppressor - doesn't work with anything else but is really neat on a 9x19 Tavor so far.
See Jerry Miculek's videos of fun with a Tavor for suggestions including in vehicle to longer ranges.
Jimmy, the Glock reference was made in response to Travis commenting that he knew the Tavor was junk because of what it looked like. My reply reminded him that many thought the same about the Glock when it was introduced, thus looks aren't necessarily a good basis for judging whether something is junk. Seems unlikely, in fact, that the IDF would switch their entire force to junk. I imagine they gave it a very good wringing out before making the decision, in fact.
true, my local shop has one of these 308's as well, there are no bounds to foolishness. The Tavor is short that is a good point, nevertheless I shall stick to my regular DI DD, Colt etc guns I know that they work fine and I know how to make them work....
I've been around a 10" .30-30. They are exceedingly unpleasant. a 8.5" .308 would be Uber unpleasant
Not unpleasent at all. Remember the 30/30 is loaded with much slower powder than the 300BO. I have an 8.5" 300BO and it's a very mild report.
Bullpups are a step backwards into the days when Drill instructors beat left handed shooters.
Actually, the Tavor can be easily switched into a 100% left hand rifle. Takes a couple of minutes to do so. Being convertible and being ambi aren't the same, I understand that, but it's pretty versatile in that regard.
I've shot, worked with and seen bullpups used.... Maybe not as much as you as it has only been a few hundred thousand rounds..... They are built for people that don't shoot. When the goal is hitting a target as fast as possible, generally from unusual and awkward positions- bullpups suck.
I've shot, worked with, trained with and trained Israelis. There is a lot of redeeming qualities that they possess...... Skill at arms is not among them. Overall they are a conscript military. They have a few units that are better, yet like everyone else besides America they lack the resources, institutional knowledge and culture of guns. This can not be overstated. There are US Reserve and National Guard units that are better trained, funded and prepared than Israel's very best.
I do not mean that as a slight, I mean it as ground truth and why what they use should have absolutely no bearing on anyone's weapon choice.
Having said that, again- EVERY SINGLE "special" unit in countries that issue bullpups use an M4 derivative weapon. Read that again. Every single Israeli unit that has a choice uses an M4 based gun.
You can take to the bank that the best shooters and killers on planet earth reside in the United States. They all shoot M4 derivatives. Where I come from that's called a clue.
I've shot, worked with and seen bullpups used.... Maybe not as much as you as it has only been a few hundred thousand rounds..... They are built for people that don't shoot. When the goal is hitting a target as fast as possible, generally from unusual and awkward positions- bullpups suck.
I've shot, worked with, trained with and trained Israelis. There is a lot of redeeming qualities that they possess...... Skill at arms is not among them. Overall they are a conscript military. They have a few units that are better, yet like everyone else besides America they lack the resources, institutional knowledge and culture of guns. This can not be overstated. There are US Reserve and National Guard units that are better trained, funded and prepared than Israel's very best.
I do not mean that as a slight, I mean it as ground truth and why what they use should have absolutely no bearing on anyone's weapon choice.
Having said that, again- EVERY SINGLE "special" unit in countries that issue bullpups use an M4 derivative weapon. Read that again. Every single Israeli unit that has a choice uses an M4 based gun.
You can take to the bank that the best shooters and killers on planet earth reside in the United States. They all shoot M4 derivatives. Where I come from that's called a clue.
That must be why Hezbollah kicked their butts in Lebanon.
I've shot, worked with and seen bullpups used.... Maybe not as much as you as it has only been a few hundred thousand rounds..... They are built for people that don't shoot. When the goal is hitting a target as fast as possible, generally from unusual and awkward positions- bullpups suck.
interesting, thanks. I might start another thread with a related question.
