|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
Any body have a clue what it is?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023 |
Yes. It's official: you're a putz.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
Hey!!!! Smoke crack how you been?
Hows your life partner? Is he good?
Last edited by logdog; 10/22/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,441
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,441 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,523
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,523 |
How can it be an announcement if only one guy knows??
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023 |
That's not just "one guy."
It's William E. Tibbe.
He taught logdog everything he knows.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
I know.....for real.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you....grin!
Luck....is the residue of design...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,004
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,004 |
Anything good or just hype?
How do you know a Trump hater? They'll tell you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023 |
I know.....for real.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you....grin! Then it must have something to do with the 6.5.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,016
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,016 |
It's a new bullet. Designed for long range hunting.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
It's a 220 grain .308cal with .999 BC. Specifically for Smoke Cracks 300 WSM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,023 |
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
I know.....for real.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you....grin! 6.5SAUM Brass finally available? David
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 819
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 819 |
I've known Steve for several years and this announcement is absolutely going to change the way you think about long range.
Just a teaser but it is called the 30 Hornady
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,168 |
I wonder if it has anything to do with Ruger ARX ammo
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,626
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,626 |
How can it be revolutionary AND .30?
Sorry; that's an oxymoron.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,611
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,611 |
I would not be surprised to hear they are either offering brass or loaded rounds for 6.5saum or a high BC bullet in 6.5 cal.
Either way....I'd be happy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
They said they found it by accident. It has to be they found the correct way to measure BC's.
Last edited by logdog; 10/23/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,850
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,850 |
They said they found it by accident. It has to be they found the correct way to measure BC's. Good thought.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Maybe they'll drop the hint to Nosler.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974 |
I know.....for real.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you....grin! Can you give him a hint and just beat the crap outta him?
Me
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,729
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,729 |
Maybe they'll adopt the 6.5SAUM, give it a new sexy name with a new longrange bullet! 6.5Hornageddon ? 6.5Hornificent ?
And their own bolt action rifle platform??
Nosler did all the above recently didn't they?
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Regardless of what "it" is, they should just make boatloads of 22LR.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,904
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,904 |
I know.....for real.
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you....grin! Can you give him a hint and just beat the crap outta him?
Golden............
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335 |
Was hoping that they'd have "wow" factor type BC numbers. They are good tho. Cant wait to try some out. http://www.hornady.com/new-products
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 279
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 279 |
wellillbefuked hey...........i cant believe i got through the whole video. not my place to speak on anyones bullet being another manufacturer now days.......
i look forward to trying some
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,450 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpan-7vTqesThe found that polymer tips were ablating from heat during travel and degrading the BC (meplat diameter was increasing as the bullet travelled downrange). By using a heat proof tip, they are able to better retain the BC built into the bullet. Ho Hum...Remington solved it a long time ago with the Bronze Points.
Last edited by ChrisF; 10/26/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Yeah, they shoulda made 22LR......
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Looks like the AMAX and the Interlock had a baby.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Yeah, they shoulda made 22LR...... Ok, scratch that. .610BC 140gr 6.5 might be a doozy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974 |
Setting aside the idea of a melting tip (they are smarter than I am so I'll reserve judgment on that) - what they've done is provide a product with an out for those people who say "Why use a match/paper punching bullet on game? It's unethical!!!" - regardless of actual performance of the AMAX on critters - there were a lot of people who wouldn't use it because it's not labeled a "hunting bullet".
Notice the focus on the tips of the OTM types - the irregularities - that's a marketing deal. Does it really matter? I don't know - I don't shoot that long, I don't shoot bergers, I don't own a Doppler. I do know that they don't look as nice and immediate thought would be - they can NOT be as consistent in the air as something with a tip like the Hornady offering. Does that really matter? Dunno - people kill big things at long ranges with OTM types and Bergers. It works obviously but we don't really know if there's an issue because I'm not shooting them myself.
At the end - Hornady has a new bullet, it's going to compete in the minds of those purchasers who say "you can't shoot match bullets at deer - need hunting bullets, but I also want to shoot long range so I get Berger Hunting VLDs"
IMO - that's what these are aimed at (pun there).
Regardless of if the heat resistant tip is BS or truth - I sincerely doubt that Hornady has introduced a bullet that is garbage front to back.
I like and use Hornady products - admit it. The Amax's I have all measured exactly the diameter they are supposed to with 2 different set of verniers. Doesn't mean much I suppose - really but they are consistent, box to box - bullet to bullet. IME
Me
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
I see blow torched Amax you tube videos on the horizon.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
All of that and the BC is lower than the 215 hybrid. Sure it's a designated hunting bullet but the 215 will drop animals in all velocity ranges. And the Hornadys are close to the same price.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,162
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,162 |
I just can't believe they don't have a 6mm in the lineup. As popular as that bullet diameter is why wouldn't they have offered a 95-105 grain offering in the initial release? I would have loved to see some Stick testing with his BR Montucky.
I was happy to see the suggested retail price was still for 100 bullets though, and it wasn't outlandishly priced.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390 |
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974 |
I guess the real test would be:
Shoot 800 yards with an Amax Shoot 800 yards with the new one
Compare drop/groups.
Me
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,817 |
Awesome
I have a lifetime supply of Hornady bullets with defective melting tips in 3 calibers.
Great
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,856
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,856 |
Notice the focus on the tips of the OTM types - the irregularities - that's a marketing deal. Does it really matter? I don't know - Looks can be deceiving...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,974 |
Notice the focus on the tips of the OTM types - the irregularities - that's a marketing deal. Does it really matter? I don't know - Looks can be deceiving... I think that anyone who shoots long - meat or paper - is looking for consistency. There are tools out there for metplat uniforming IIRC and at first blush - it looks like there's no way for it to be consistent. BUT I also suspect that it might have been a case where engineers were looking at the Doppler and not the target. Like watching a dial indicator on a lathe - it bounces all over the place and you'd think that whatever you have in there is completely out of round - then you remember that it's swinging 40% of the dial to show at 3 ten thousands bump (hyperole - you get the idea). I have a feeling the tip deal has more to do with making the doppler happy than it does affecting the target results. IMO - the thing here is the interlock and using them on game for people.
Me
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
Awesome
I have a lifetime supply of Hornady bullets with defective melting tips in 3 calibers.
Great Rick, No problem. I hear they are planning on offering the new tips and a little tube of glue to anyone that has the old defective melting tips. You'll have to supply your own pliers, but it shouldn't take you more than 3 or 4 minutes per bullet to retrofit.... David
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,856
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,856 |
I think that anyone who shoots long - meat or paper - is looking for consistency. There are tools out there for metplat uniforming IIRC and at first blush - it looks like there's no way for it to be consistent. In reference to Burger, the published BCs are from actual testing of said bullets with unmodified tips. While their values are an average the spread is very small. Litz did some experimenting with metplat trimming and bullet tipping and there were minor increases in published BCs. They shoot fine right out of the box.
Last edited by AJ300MAG; 10/27/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,817
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,817 |
Awesome
I have a lifetime supply of Hornady bullets with defective melting tips in 3 calibers.
Great Rick, No problem. I hear they are planning on offering the new tips and a little tube of glue to anyone that has the old defective melting tips. You'll have to supply your own pliers, but it shouldn't take you more than 3 or 4 minutes per bullet to retrofit.... David A gunsmith friend of mine used to tell me that there was a problem with the A-Max tips for quite some time. I thought he was full of it till now
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
I'm starting to miss the good old days when I could hunt with CorLokts.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,390 |
I guess the real test would be:
Shoot 800 yards with an AMAX Shoot 800 yards with the new one
Compare drop/groups. That would be a fair way to determine if this is a distinction without a difference.....
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,052
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,052 |
The 208 Amax gets a nice G1 BC boost from .648 up to .670.
Not bad if it's for real. Color me skeptical.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
IIRC you are kinda the 208/30-06 aficionado in these parts. What kinda speeds are you dealing with?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,052
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,052 |
With moly and RL22, 2800 fps in a 26" bbl, 2740 in a 22.5" bbl.
With moly and RL17, 2650 fps in a 22.5" bbl. 2600 fps in a 20" bbl.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,878
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,878 |
I'm cautiously optimistic. I used to shoot a lot of Amax but now only have them in .224 for practice and varmints. I've been using Berger's for competition and primarily Scenar's for hunting.
Hoping they are readily available at a reasonable price...
Empirical results rule!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,649
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,649 |
I'm cautiously optimistic. I used to shoot a lot of Amax but now only have them in .224 for practice and varmints. I've been using Berger's for competition and primarily Scenar's for hunting.
Hoping they are readily available at a reasonable price... Mind if I ask why you swap between competition and hunting?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,878
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,878 |
Sure. I wouldn't say I'm swapping so much, as I have a sporter weight I use for hunting and a heavy gun for competition. I primarily shoot Scenar's in the sporter and Hybrids in the comp gun.
The Berger Hybrids shoot tighter for me, and are slicker, especially after I point them. The Scenars have always worked correctly on game, where the Hybrids have had some issues in a lot smaller sample size.
Empirical results rule!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
I just can't believe they don't have a 6mm in the lineup. As popular as that bullet diameter is why wouldn't they have offered a 95-105 grain offering in the initial release? I would have loved to see some Stick testing with his BR Montucky.
I was happy to see the suggested retail price was still for 100 bullets though, and it wasn't outlandishly priced. George Gardner posted that there will be a 6mm in 2016.
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” ALDO LEOPOLD
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,649
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,649 |
Sure. I wouldn't say I'm swapping so much, as I have a sporter weight I use for hunting and a heavy gun for competition. I primarily shoot Scenar's in the sporter and Hybrids in the comp gun.
The Berger Hybrids shoot tighter for me, and are slicker, especially after I point them. The Scenars have always worked correctly on game, where the Hybrids have had some issues in a lot smaller sample size. Thought that last part might be the case. Thanks for the info. Though a small sample size, I've been very pleased with on game results of the 139gr Scenar out of a 260. Can't see a reason to change right now.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,834
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,834 |
I'll give the 6.5, 143ga ELD-X a run alongside the 140gr AMax.
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,730
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,730 |
I can't wait till guys start selling their AMAX stash.....I'll still shoot them...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,024
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,024 |
Midway has em all up for backorder, supposed to be in on 11/28/15 ! http://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=eld
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,923
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,923 |
Powder Valley has them up for pre-order.
Dave
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,415
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,415 |
I'll give the 6.5, 143ga ELD-X a run alongside the 140gr AMax. I plan to do the same but I'm happy with the Amax.
A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand but touches your heart !!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Just noticed factory loads that are going to be available as well. Interesting.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
I'm interested in seeing what velocity I'm going to get with the 212's and see if they out perform the 215. But I'm hearing a long bearing surface, so in would say they will be slower than the 215.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,995
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,995 |
I shot an antelope at 550 yards this year with a 215 berger hybrid and results were excellent. I picked up a few more boxes and planned to run them on everything and now something new comes along to try.
I'm particularly interested to see if the 143 6.5 shoots well In my 264 win. I've had a hard time finding a high BC bullet it likes but here's another option.
Bb
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,850
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,850 |
I ordered a box to test in two 6.5's. One is a lightweight. The other tops out about eight pounds. Both have 26" barrels.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507 |
A Hornady ballistician was having dinner when his five year old son asked why the red plastic tip on Daddy's bullets don't melt at supersonic speed! Dad suddenly got up and headed to the lab.
Last edited by Grand; 10/30/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,162
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,162 |
I just can't believe they don't have a 6mm in the lineup. As popular as that bullet diameter is why wouldn't they have offered a 95-105 grain offering in the initial release? I would have loved to see some Stick testing with his BR Montucky.
I was happy to see the suggested retail price was still for 100 bullets though, and it wasn't outlandishly priced. George Gardner posted that there will be a 6mm in 2016. Did he happen to have any kind of info on the yet to be released 6mm? I emailed Hornady on the 27th, no reply as of yet. However, I wasn't expecting a rapid response.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,091
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,091 |
The 6.5 is the only one with a decent BC. I will at least try them, that and the new 183 SMKs.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,440
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
How much is a guy going to have to back off powder from say a 140 gr A max or Berger VLD to load the 143 Gr
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
Depends on the difference in bearing surface I would drop 10% and work up to be safe. But I would guess they will be about the same.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Just had to ask......
"While we do not have any current plans for this type of offering, we will be happy to let management know that there is interest in a .277” ELD-X offering. Thank you"
|
|
|
|
655 members (007FJ, 1badf350, 160user, 1936M71, 10gaugemag, 1234, 65 invisible),
2,770
guests, and
1,300
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,371
Posts18,469,202
Members73,931
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|