I saw his face on Fox this morning with "Fox News Contributor" under his picture. His name is Robert Jeffress and he is Pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, a position which often leads to being named President of the Southern Baptist Convention.
He was pretty good at self-promotion when he was Pastor at First Baptist in Wichita Falls, Tx. When the book promoting homosexuality,"Heather has Two Mommies" was published, Jeffress put together a campaign asking people to check out the book and not return it.
I doubt most folks would have heard of it if not for him, so he sure helped the book's sales.
A few years ago, my wife and I decided to attend Sunday morning Easter services at his church in W.F., figuring we would see some of the pageantry, and hear some of the music that large Baptist churches commonly put on at Easter.
Instead, the ENTIRE service consisted of watching a really professionally crafted video of the Architect's drawings of a new Mega- Bld'g planned to be built next door. Of course there was a solicitation for pledges, and all the money collected that morning was dedicated to the new building.
That was it. No Easter sermon. No Easter music by the choir. Just a pitch for money.
I reckon it was successful since the new bldg was built and " The Lord called Brother Jeffress to First Baptist in Dallas".
he is Pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, a position which often leads to being named President of the Southern Baptist Convention.
A 1st Baptist church is part of the American Baptist convention, not the Southern Baptist. They're entirely separate other than in their beliefs.
I can't speak for Southern Baptists, but each American Baptist church chooses it's own minister. The ABC has no control at all on who they pick. If a church chooses such a man, it's that churches decision and has no reflection on the national convention or on any other individual church.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I don't trust anyone that attends one of those mega churches
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
he is Pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, a position which often leads to being named President of the Southern Baptist Convention.
A 1st Baptist church is part of the American Baptist convention, not the Southern Baptist. They're entirely separate other than in their beliefs.
I can't speak for Southern Baptists, but each American Baptist church chooses it's own minister. The ABC has no control at all on who they pick. If a church chooses such a man, it's that churches decision and has no reflection on the national convention or on any other individual church.
EVERY "First Baptist Church" I have attended, and been a member of, was a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.
ALL Baptist churches practice a Congregational form of church government and are an entity unto themselves.
If you want to research [I don't, I'm speaking just from my memory] I believe you will find that First Baptist of Dallas has often been the springboard to leadership in the SBC. The same can be said for First Baptist of Memphis and Atlanta.
The Roman Catholics don't have a lock on politics or money raising.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
Exactly my observations as well.
Our church pastor visits the homes of his members quite frequently, and is quite a fixture in the town doings.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Every 1st Baptist I've ever heard of has been American Baptist...but I'm a northener. If you google it, you'll find that American Baptists are usually called that. However, in the past when a Baptist church of any flavor was the first to open in a town, they'd often called themselves the First Baptist simply because they're the first one there.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. . ."
A church building is not necessary. For the true church is in the hearts and devotions of the congregants; without a soul to bear His light and spirit; without a righteous person to sacrifice ego for virtue, there is no place for the Son of Man. Preach therefore not of the things of this world, but of the next, setting aside all vanity for the treasure to come. To be loved in name by the Holy Spirit is to gain eternal bliss beyond measure.
he is Pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, a position which often leads to being named President of the Southern Baptist Convention.
A 1st Baptist church is part of the American Baptist convention, not the Southern Baptist. They're entirely separate other than in their beliefs.
I can't speak for Southern Baptists, but each American Baptist church chooses it's own minister. The ABC has no control at all on who they pick. If a church chooses such a man, it's that churches decision and has no reflection on the national convention or on any other individual church.
EVERY "First Baptist Church" I have attended, and been a member of, was a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.
ALL Baptist churches practice a Congregational form of church government and are an entity unto themselves.
If you want to research [I don't, I'm speaking just from my memory] I believe you will find that First Baptist of Dallas has often been the springboard to leadership in the SBC. The same can be said for First Baptist of Memphis and Atlanta.
The Roman Catholics don't have a lock on politics or money raising.
that's been my experience and understanding as well. at least down south. in my personal view, there's a more conservative side of the SBC, and a more moderate side. yet, the blanket remains in tact, so to speak.
we've had our fair share of uh...articulate speakers. seems like the more articulate they are, the greater the size of the congregation.
there's been a catholic spokesperson on the Fox nearly foreever. i think he has written a book or two.
i always liked to read of Malachi Martin's books about the vatican, etc. etc.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
I wouldn't altogether disagree with you. But i wouldn't paint with too wide a brush. There are always exceptions. There is a monster church not far from me probably over 35k belong to it. I don't. Told a lot of ex catholics there. They seem to do a good job. Had a life long friend lose a grandson in a car accident a few years ago. They stepped up to the plate took care of the whole thing, burial expenses, service, the dinner afterwards. My friend was not a member at the time. They do a lot of stuff like that. Few years back we use to have a motorcycle run from that church to firebird raceway. They set up big screens in the church so family members in iraq could see their families at the church. pretty special.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
Define small. Most of the smaller churches are that way for a reason. This is where you find the preachers who are into the snake handling, and other cult like activities. They have been run off from mainstream churches and formed their own along with a handful of other nut cases.
The megachurches just practice a different form of crookedness.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Most mega churches are run like corporations by a "board" with the pastor as CEO, or a really tight family group. You really don't want to judge them, but it does raise an eyebrow when they collect a 300k salary and spend a good deal of time promoting their latest book in order to enrich themselves.
Everything will be sorted out in the end, and everybody will stand before an Almighty God.
So this guy gets rescued after spending several years stranded alone on a desert island, when the rescuers arrive they note he has built three huts.
"What's that?" they say, pointing to the first one.
"That's my house." the guy says.
"And that one?" they ask, pointing to the second hut.
"That's where I go to church." he says.
"Well, what about that one?" they ask, pointing to the third hut.
"Oh, that's where I used to go to church."
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
The priest takes a swing, slices and sends the ball into the trees...
"Damn, I missed." Mutters the priest, the nun gasps in shock.
In the woods, the priest hits the ball but it hits a tree and richochets into a sand trap.
"Damn! I missed!" says the priest.
"Father!" Exclaims the nun, "You are a man of the cloth, if you speak like that God will strike you down!"
In the sand trap the priest slices again, the ball lands in the pond.
"DAMN! I MISSED!" Yells the priest.
Not a cloud in the sky, out of the blue a lightning bolt comes down, hits the nun, and strikes her dead.........
"Damn, I missed" comes a voice from above.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
So one day, at the Vatican, a cardinal approaches the pope.
"Your Holiness" says the pope, "I have some good news and some bad news".
"OK", says the pope, "give me the good news first."
"Jesus is on the phone, he said to tell you he's back on earth."
"WHAT!" says the pope,"Jesus is BACK! This is WONDERFUL news! What could possibly be wrong?"
"Well, he's calling from Salt Lake City."
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
A: They hate it when strangers come knocking on their door.
OK, that,s about all the religion jokes I got, besides the ancient Baptists-not-liking-sex-standing-up-because-it-looks-too-much-like-dancing one.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Any preacher who can get through any Lord's Day w/o preaching the Good News of God's gracious gift in Christ has an especially hot place in Hell set aside for him.
The Jehovahs are rather aggressive in my town. They'd invite my foster kids to all kinds of stuff church related trying to convert. So, I started inviting their kids to youth group stuff at my church. I've never seen such a quick change in attitude. The Jo Ho parents would completely shut down, and not even make eye contact.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
That's my observation, too, Sam. Another one is, the more people I'm considering doing business with (including tenants) start talking about God, how many times they go to church a week, and their family, the less I want to do business with them.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
Ain't preachers about the easiest thing in the World to put on "ignore"?
Ain't gonna point fingers, those who worship at such megachurches surely are happy to be there, even if the "tithing" can run steep.
I expect there's worse things to be preoccupied with than one's prospect of eternal life through a Christian message.
Talk to the attendee of a local mosque fer example....... every one I know of is funded by the Saudis.
Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Most mega churches are run like corporations by a "board" with the pastor as CEO, or a really tight family group. You really don't want to judge them, but it does raise an eyebrow when they collect a 300k salary and spend a good deal of time promoting their latest book in order to enrich themselves.
Everything will be sorted out in the end, and everybody will stand before an Almighty God.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
Enter ye by the narrow gate, for broad is the way to destruction, and many there are who go that way.
Zactly; preachers too often turn into ear ticklers & nothing more. There is a certain offense imbedded in the Gospel (like that Jesus needed to die) that doesnt win popularity points these days.
A friend's dad was a Baptist preacher. His son said that his dad had to wrap his whisky bottles in brown paper bags before he put them in the trash. The son said "Baptists are like cats, you know they are doing it, but damned if you can catch them at it."
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
THIS!
For twenty years as an independent adjuster I handled claims for Church Mutual Insurance. Invariably the mega-churches were money factories and very little more, while the poorest little churches in the out of the way places were the real deal. I was always welcomed warmly at the little churches. They usually had much of the congregation there to thank me for "bothering" with their claim. They had food ready and warm handshakes. I was always...ALWAYS...scammed by the mega-churches. On several occasions I was immediately threatened with "I'll get you fired if...".
I had two pencils, a big fat writing one and a very sharp tight writing one. Those in real need got the fat pencil-treatment. For all their threats the megas never accomplished their threats, as hard as some tried.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
To say that ALL preachers in megachurches are crooks is a false assumption. Some are crooks, of course, but many got there because they preach a true message and God has blessed them.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
It is simpler than it seems. First Baptist Church just means the first Baptist church in a town or at least the first one to take that name. It has nothing to do with any denomination of Baptists, and may be any type of Baptist or an independent. Likewise, Second Baptist Church, etc.
Someone will correct me if this is wrong info, but that has been my understanding for decades.
i suspect, but don't know for a fact, that the Pastor man business is highly competitive. and plenty of denominations have allowed wimmen to enter the game. so, it's doubly competitive in some cases.
to climb & clamor over rivals to field a church is not as easy as it might appear to the non-adept who choose to walk among us.
climbing to the top level of a church, any church means efforts have been expended along with natural & learned abilities. and i'm pretty sure god has a vote also.
so, to be the head-knocker in charge of the well-being of a mega-church, especially or even in a prosperous community means money can and does flow like wine.
the chief of a mega-church and many mid-level churches can provide a good lifesstyle for their wives, and children, often at the expense of the congregation. i mean, the more a congregation pays/gives, the more likely they will be found just in the eyes of the Almighty. Right? i mean it works that way, doesn't it?
Preacher's hover very near the bottom of my "people to trust" list.
Travis
Certainly Babtist preachers.
Baptists have a unique claim among denominations outside the Catholic Church, and that is that they didn't branch off of Roman Catholicism, unlike every Protestant denomination. They claim to predate said Reformation.
Well, Christ came as God incarnate because men have fallen natures and sin, a lot. Christians are only men and women who've recognized that truth and received God's offer of redemption through Christ. Their lives should then reflect that change in all they do but they still do sin and fall short, sometimes dramatically so. So Christians are folks whose sins are forgiven but at the same time far, far from perfect.
There's an old theologian (Vernon McGee Th.d) who wrote one time that when the devil found out he couldn't destroy the church (in the first, second centuries A.D. With the despotic Roman emperors), he joined it. In other words since those early centuries, with the development of RC, and Protestantism with its many iterations, there is obviously no shortage of errant doctrine. And that's not to mention that the Bible in its prophetic passages speaks of many "wolves in sheep clothing" in the church and much apostasy in the end times. So, there's that.
One very significant truth from Matthew 7:16-20 states that "by your fruit ye shall know them." While Christians are far from perfect and still sin, there overal "life's body of work" shows a a Christ-like approach to life in as much as a human can do it. However, there are many who call themselves Christians who aren't and while none of us can ever judge a person's heart, their words and actions--their fruit--are open to judgement by anyone with the eyes to see and the ears to hear.
It certainly sounds like that pastor, that church, and those responsible for that Easter service lost focus of the single most important reason for their existence--the life and work (including his death, resurrection, and Ascension) of Jesus Christ. If a pastor and a church will adhere to that and that only all else will usually follow in good time. Even fund raising.
At the 2:55 mark listen to his comments about the importance Trump puts on Supreme Court Justices.
[video:youtube]Uk4c2uoOF3o[/video]
Jew Rabbi annointing Trump and comparing him to King Solomon.
Another asks for a strong black man to rise up and stand shoulder to shoulder with Trump to help the black communities. Could that be a reference to Ben Carson as his VP?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
Gem from my Grandfather: Baptists are like cats: You KNOW they get out and raise Hell, but you just can't catch 'em at it.
Gem from a preacher friend of mine (NOT Baptist): The Muslims don't recognize the Jews, Jews don't recognize Christians, Catholics don't recognize Protestants, and Baptists don't recognize each other, at Hooters or the liquor store.
I won't go to a church where the preacher doesn't know me and my wife on a first name basis, or where I can't call him or her up and talk to him/her personally about any concern, or meet for lunch on occasion, or to a church where the preacher won't perform my marriage or my funeral (or put another way: he won't marry me or bury me).
Bring enough gun and know how to use it.
Know that it is not the knowing, nor the talking, nor the reading man, but the doing man, that at last will be found the happiest man. - Thomas Brooks (1608-1680)
I won't go to a church where the preacher doesn't know me and my wife on a first name basis, or where I can't call him or her up and talk to him/her personally about any concern, or meet for lunch on occasion, or to a church where the preacher won't perform my marriage or my funeral (or put another way: he won't marry me or bury me).
Marriage can be a tricky subject in a church. The Bible says to not be unequally yoked. That means that a Christian is not to marry a non-Christian. Many ministers won't marry such a couple as it's forbidden in the Bible.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I used to work for a devout Baptist. one of the biggest crooks Ive met. when he ordered me to lie to a architect to cover his error,I decided it was time to leave.
********************** [the member formerly known as fluffy}
Stereo types exist for a reason but that being said I try to judge every man on his own fruit. I don't like big churches much but I went to one several times that was amazing. A church in Knoxville tn called Trinity Chapel who's pastor was a messianic jew, best preaching I ever heard, best spirit filled worship I have ever experienced and the people were the most welcoming and sweet people I have ever met.
I was also raised in small baptist Churchs for which I will NEVER attend, ever... So much judgment and pride it is sickening. I don't like very many pastors either, most are arrogant and blind to any thing that they don't understand. Trying to control people with commandments of men NOT God's commandments. Example,,, all the Baptists were so worried about the lottery and selling liqueur by the drink in restaurants in Hamblin co. it was comical. God never took someone's free will away, if these undecerning sheep would pray half as hard for God to impact people's lives as they do against the lottery or alcohol there would be a revival in this county and they won't have to worry about the other stuff, all the while a epidemic of pills and meth are rampid. Funny thing is the very ones who didn't want the lottery are willing to accept scholarships from it for their kids, can't have your cake and eat it too. Bunch of lame sheep.
Organized religion is in pretty bad shape across the board but the more persecution the church gets the closer they will get to God and the more all the bull $hit will fall by the wayside. The muzzies are gonna force christians to actually get close to God and quit playing church.
Stereo types exist for a reason but that being said I try to judge every man on his own fruit. I don't like big churches much but I went to one several times that was amazing. A church in Knoxville tn called Trinity Chapel who's pastor was a messianic jew, best preaching I ever heard, best spirit filled worship I have ever experienced and the people were the most welcoming and sweet people I have ever met.
I was also raised in small baptist Churchs for which I will NEVER attend, ever... So much judgment and pride it is sickening. I don't like very many pastors either, most are arrogant and blind to any thing that they don't understand. Trying to control people with commandments of men NOT God's commandments. Example,,, all the Baptists were so worried about the lottery and selling liqueur by the drink in restaurants in Hamblin co. it was comical. God never took someone's free will away, if these undecerning sheep would pray half as hard for God to impact people's lives as they do against the lottery or alcohol there would be a revival in this county and they won't have to worry about the other stuff, all the while a epidemic of pills and meth are rampid. Funny thing is the very ones who didn't want the lottery are willing to accept scholarships from it for their kids, can't have your cake and eat it too. Bunch of lame sheep.
Organized religion is in pretty bad shape across the board but the more persecution the church gets the closer they will get to God and the more all the bull $hit will fall by the wayside. The muzzies are gonna force christians to actually get close to God and quit playing church.
I found your complaint about "judgment" ironic, in light of all the "judging" you did in this thread.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
Preacher's hover very near the bottom of my "people to trust" list.
Travis
remember the old boy that posted on here that took an airhose to his preacher that was either diddlin or tryin to diddle the guy's wife?
preachers are easier to trust if a guy keeps a length of airhose handy and shakes at the preacher once in awhile I'd reckon
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
These fellows were discussing 'preachers'. Pastors are a whole 'nuther thing. (I would concur, however, on your assessment of the smaller churches deal.)
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
But they flourish,have great influence and the money rolls in! Can you say Jimmy Swaggart or Jim and Tammy Baker? It's a business and they have to sell, sell and sell.
Best church I have ever been a member of was the 1st Methodist Church in down town Page Nebraska. Find that little town on a map!
Pastors of smaller churches seem to be the 'real thing'. Pastors of megachurches seem to all be charlatans, crooks, and snake oil salesmen.
But they flourish,have great influence and the money rolls in! Can you say Jimmy Swaggart or Jim and Tammy Baker? It's a business and they have to sell, sell and sell.
Best church I have ever been a member of was the 1st Methodist Church in down town Page Nebraska. Find that little town on a map!
so very true. one doens't just wander in off the street and assume the role of the leader of a mega-church. to the fittest goes the spoils.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/m0zk1a7.jpg)
(I would concur, however, on your assessment of the smaller churches deal.)
