Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting The 300 Wby Mag for elk- is there anything better?

If Burnsfeld doesn't get it by now, he never wil. I think that spray tan stuff is toxic.

What about the "bleach". That can't be good.

Then again I might have kill a few bulls in a few places and sort figured a few things related to bull killin.

Here's a hint. Hit them in the right place and then "profit".

Thanks for noticing...

I don't think the change in the sig line is going to do what you think it might do.

Pretty sure it will be short lived, if you get what I am sayin.

You may be right, but even you could see the humor if it wasn't true...

LOL.

Not sayin it might not be true or you know True Enough.

This is the internet.

And I sure enough laughed out loud.

Fun at the Campfire is the gift that keeps on givin.

Even when a guy need to endure his time under the bus so to speak.

No, the only way to "profit" is by selling 5K rifles that are only worth $1500.

LOL.

You do realize I don't sell and have not sold bolt guns for over 4 years??

Wind up that whine!!

Just living off your trust fund now?

If you don't like someones opinion then gang up on that individual and chew on them like a pack of wolves. It's the Campfire way. Good thing Burns seems to be able to laugh it off.

John,

Let me provide a little of my elk hunting history before getting to various points about timber hunting. Grew up in Montana but for various reasons mostly hunted deer in the eastern part of the state until I was about 20, when I started elk hunting with a couple of mentors. There weren't nearly as many elk as there are now, and the Forest Service country my mentors hunted was heavily timbered--which is where the elk hung out. Would have to look at my hunting notes to make sure, but don't think I ever shot an elk at as MUCH as 100 yards in those years.

A different group of people hunted each area, anchored around my mentors, and consequently I got to see a variety of bullets and cartridges used, not just my own. Saw a bullet from popular 180-grain .30-06 factory load come apart on a bull's shoulder, just above the big joint--and about a decade later saw a 150 of the same make come apart on a mule deer's shoulder after hitting the joint. Both animals were eventually killed, but neither bullet made it past the ribs behind the shoulder.

Also saw cup-and-core bullets come apart on the neck of a 6-point bull and the rut-swollen neck of a very big-bodied mule deer buck. In both instances the empty jacket of the bullet was found resting against the spine, which wasn't broken. The elk still died, but only because a major blood vessel had been nicked, and it took half a mile to bleed out. If there hadn't been snow on the ground we might not have found it. The deer dropped at the shot, but after a minute or so started to struggle so was shot again. Both of those were 150-grain .270 bullets.

Also had an interesting encounter with a cow elk shot with what was supposedly a deep-penetrating bullet. The cow was trotting away up a hillside less than 75 yards away and the bullet entered behind the ribs on the left side. As it turned out the bullet was slowed by the grass-filled paunch, and only got into one lung, so that elk also went about half a mile before stopping and eventually dying. But there wasn't any snow on the ground and the meat was soured by the time the cow was found. Those aren't all the examples, by any means.

Eventually I decided to try Nosler Partitions, which were the only "premium" bullet available back then--and soon settled on the 200-grain in the .30-06. This was awhile ago when the 200 Partition was a "semi-spitzer," essentially a roundnose, but at less than 100 yards it didn't matter. I never, ever saw any of those same problems again, whether I was shooting at an elk's shoulder or neck, or angling a bullet into the left side up through the edge of the paunch into the chest cavity.

The 200 Partition semi-spitzer was made until the late 70's, when it became a spitzer. I have shot more elk with 200 Partitions from various .30's from the .30-06 to the .300 Weatherby than any other bullet, at ranges from under 50 to around 400 yards, and yes, there is a difference in shooting elk in heavy timber. Often only a small part of the animal is visible, and the right place to put the bullet is the neck, the big shoulder joint, or ahead of the rump into the chest. Often you have to shoot right now or not shoot at all, with no time to wait or maneuver to put the bullet in a "softer" spot.

I am not fond of neck shots, but will take them if the elk is facing directly toward or away from me, because the spine is then centered in the neck. And in my experience with a lot of different bullets, a shoulder joint or even just the edge of the paunch will stop some, or at least slow them down enough to prevent full penetration of the chest cavity.

About a dozen years ago I shot a 6-point bull in thick creekbottom cover at 75 yards. The bull was looking to my left so the spine wasn't centered in the neck, but the shoulder was exposed through a little lane in the brush, so I put a 200-grain Partition from a .300 Winchester Magnum into the big shoulder joint, and the bull went about 35 yards before keeling over. The bullet not only busted the joint but penetrated both lungs and exited the rear of the ribs on the other side.

On another occasion a raghorn bull was already hit in the chest, broadside, but didn't fall. He was across a park at a little over 300 yards and started walking slowly up the far hillside, directly away, but paused at about 375 and I angled a 200 Partition from a .300 Weatherby into his chest, which had to pass through the abdominal cavity. The bull dropped and never moved, because the bullet made it all the way up into the chest. It turned out he would have died from the first shot, but like you I tend to keep shooting until elk go down and stay down.

You know I like Bergers, but I have seen a 185 Berger from a .300 Winchester Magnum fail to penetrate the chest of a 150-pound feral goat from a left-side angling shot, because it hit the paunch. Some of the bullet did make it into the left lung but that was it--and that was at over 300 yards. I am not about the try the same sort of shot with a Berger on an elk in the timber, but with a 200-grain Nosler Partition will take that shot anytime, because I know the bullet will keep penetrating through the chest. These days other bullets will do the same thing, but they didn't exist back in the mid-70's, and after almost 40 years of positive results with the 200 Partition I still use it for a lot of my hunting.

Have since hunted elk in a few other places than Montana, from New Mexico to northern British Columbia, but these days am back to mostly hunting them on public land near home, and the places I hunt are remarkably like the ones hunted 40-some years ago, with plenty of thick timber and only very rare openings where a 300-yard shot might be possible. Most elk spend most of their time in the timber, so that's where they're shot.

Come to think of it, can't remember many elk shot much past 100 yards in the 25 years my wife and I have been hunting our area, but one was the cow my wife killed at a lasered (after the shot) 123 yards last fall. It was angling away to the right, and a 100-grain Tipped TSX from her .257 Roberts dropped it right there. Eileen has shot quite a bit of game with the 115 Berger Hunting VLD from the same rifle, but for a quartering-away angling shot on an elk she also tends to prefer a little more penetration.

I think "the best elk cartridge/bullet" threads get sideways partly cause people hunt elk differently and in varying topography.

Ive killed elk and witnessed quit a few kids/women kill elk with a 243 and would gladly do it again given the right hunt and topography.

If the hunt I had dictated my best chance was hunting North slopes I wouldn't even think of a 243.

John, your sense of humor and lack of acrimony at differing opinions is really refreshing.

Edit: meant Burns but on further consideration should include the other John B too😊

[quote=Mule Deer]John,

Let me provide a little of my elk hunting history before getting to various points about timber hunting. Grew up in Montana but for various reasons mostly hunted deer in the eastern part of the state until I was about 20, when I started elk hunting with a couple of mentors. There weren't nearly as many elk as there are now, and the Forest Service country my mentors hunted was heavily timbered--which is where the elk hung out. Would have to look at my hunting notes to make sure, but don't think I ever shot an elk at as MUCH as 100 yards in those years.

A different group of people hunted each area, anchored around my mentors, and consequently I got to see a variety of bullets and cartridges used, not just my own. Saw a bullet from popular 180-grain .30-06 factory load come apart on a bull's shoulder, just above the big joint--and about a decade later saw a 150 of the same make come apart on a mule deer's shoulder after hitting the joint. Both animals were eventually killed, but neither bullet made it past the ribs behind the shoulder.

Also saw cup-and-core bullets come apart on the neck of a 6-point bull and the rut-swollen neck of a very big-bodied mule deer buck. In both instances the empty jacket of the bullet was found resting against the spine, which wasn't broken. The elk still died, but only because a major blood vessel had been nicked, and it took half a mile to bleed out. If there hadn't been snow on the ground we might not have found it. The deer dropped at the shot, but after a minute or so started to struggle so was shot again. Both of those were 150-grain .270 bullets.

Also had an interesting encounter with a cow elk shot with what was supposedly a deep-penetrating bullet. The cow was trotting away up a hillside less than 75 yards away and the bullet entered behind the ribs on the left side. As it turned out the bullet was slowed by the grass-filled paunch, and only got into one lung, so that elk also went about half a mile before stopping and eventually dying. But there wasn't any snow on the ground and the meat was soured by the time the cow was found. Those aren't all the examples, by any means.

Eventually I decided to try Nosler Partitions, which were the only "premium" bullet available back then--and soon settled on the 200-grain in the .30-06. This was awhile ago when the 200 Partition was a "semi-spitzer," essentially a roundnose, but at less than 100 yards it didn't matter. I never, ever saw any of those same problems again, whether I was shooting at an elk's shoulder or neck, or angling a bullet into the left side up through the edge of the paunch into the chest cavity.

The 200 Partition semi-spitzer was made until the late 70's, when it became a spitzer. I have shot more elk with 200 Partitions from various .30's from the .30-06 to the .300 Weatherby than any other bullet, at ranges from under 50 to around 400 yards, and yes, there is a difference in shooting elk in heavy timber. Often only a small part of the animal is visible, and the right place to put the bullet is the neck, the big shoulder joint, or ahead of the rump into the chest. Often you have to shoot right now or not shoot at all, with no time to wait or maneuver to put the bullet in a "softer" spot.

I am not fond of neck shots, but will take them if the elk is facing directly toward or away from me, because the spine is then centered in the neck. And in my experience with a lot of different bullets, a shoulder joint or even just the edge of the paunch will stop some, or at least slow them down enough to prevent full penetration of the chest cavity.

About a dozen years ago I shot a 6-point bull in thick creekbottom cover at 75 yards. The bull looking to my left so the spine wasn't centered in the neck, but the shoulder was exposed through a little lane in the brush, so I put a 200-grain Partition from a .300 Winchester Magnum into the big shoulder joint, and the bull went about 35 yards before keeling over. The bullet not only busted the joint but penetrated both lungs and exited the rear of the ribs on the other side.

On another occasion a raghorn bull was already hit in the chest, broadside, but didn't fall. He was across a park at a little over 300 yards and started walking slowly up the far hillside, directly away, but paused at about 375 and I angled a 200 Partition from a .300 Weatherby into his chest, which had to pass through the abdiminal cavity. The bull dropped and never moved, because the bullet made it all the way up into the chest. It turned out he would have died from the first shot, but like you I tend to keep shooting until elk go down and stay down.

You know I like Bergers, but I have seen a 185 Berger from a .300 Winchester Magnum fail to penetrate the chest of a 150-pound feral goat from a left-side angling shot, because it hit the paunch. Some of the bullet did make it into the left lung but that was it--and that was at over 300 yards. I am not about the try the same sort of shot with a Berger on an elk in the timber, but with a 200-grain Nosler Partition will take that shot anytime, because I know the bullet will keep penetrating through the chest. These days other bullets will do the same thing, but they didn't exist back in the mid-70's, and after almost 40 years of positive results with the 200 Partition I still use it for a lot of my hunting.

Have since hunted elk in a few other places than Montana, from New Mexico to northern British Columbia, but these days am back to mostly hunt them on public land near home, and the places I hunt are remarkably like the ones hunted 40-some years ago, with plenty of thick timber and only very rare openings where a 300-yard shot might be possible. Most elk spend most of their time in the timber, so that's where they're shot.

Come to think of it, can't remember many if any elk shot much past 100 yards in the 25 years my wife and I have been hunting our area, and that was the cow my wife killed at a lasered (after the shot) 123 yards last fall. It was angling away to the right, and a 100-grain Tipped TSX from her .257 Roberts dropped it right there. Eileen has shot quite a bit of game with the 115 Berger Hunting VLD from the same rifle, but for a quartering-away angling shot on an elk she also tends to prefer a little more penetration.

[/quote

I enjoy reading your clear, concise and informative writing gained from years of real world experience. This and your last post are everything that needs to be said.

Excellent point and one which should be evident,but sometimes is not.

There certainly is no shortage of opinion on elk cartridges. But that is usually the case - even after all we have available in the marketplace.

JB,

Thanks for the response. As I said I am just a victim of my experience.

This year the elk count is at 17 and the season runs tell the end of this month.

I would say your response was more about bullets and not so much about why nothing is "better" than the .300 Weatherby.

Congrats to Eileen on her elk and tell her I said HI.

John



Thanks George,

I enjoy discussing elk guns and stuff with guys like you and JB.

John,

Will definitely tell her hi and congrats!

Yeah, my response was more about bullets than the .300 Weatherby, but one of the reasons the .300 Weatherby (and other .300 magnums) are popular among elk hunters is they can push reasonably heavy premium bullets fast enough to work well both at very close range and out a ways. I've taken elk with smaller rounds, of course, and they've all done the job, but don't feel the same confidence in smaller bullets in taking the tough angling or shoulder shots. They would probably work fine, and in fact have seen good performance from bullets like the Barnes TSX and Nosler Partition in smaller caliber on both on elk and moose. But have EVERY confidence in the 200 Partition just from using it so often in varying conditions!

I also think--also based on considerable experience--that the majority of hunters can't shoot .300 magnums very well, which of course is another, very real factor. They would obviously be better off with a lighter-kicking round, as Eileen is with the .257 Roberts.

One thing's for sure: It's nice to have so many elk around to hunt these days!

Of course. The .338 Winchester Magnum, with 250 grain bullets is the best Elk gun in the world! Period.

tenacious thread.