Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

Geno,

I see you are trying that common sense and logical approach again...

How's it going?

The footage looked a lot like what we've all seen when men in bathrobes attempt to plant roadside bombs in the dark before being greeted with a surprise from the sky. That's all filmed from what 10-15K feet? This footage looked like that to me, just in daylight, color, and a few hours from home.............NOT one of the drones you can buy on Amazon. Just sayin'.

Given his statements about not being taken alive, you still believe this?

In 1875 they would have just burned 'em out and hung the ones that they didn't shoot in the back. Too bad they didn't have an eye in the sky on the bull shooting deal...sounds like the same witness.

I didn't read the whole thread but does anyone else get the feeling that he quickly exited the vehicle and put distance between himself and it's occupants because he knew what was going to happen next and didn't want them in the line of fire?

Why else would he have run through the snow? It's not like he was going to escape on foot and he knew that.

given his statements - he wasn't going to be given the benefit of the doubt

and who knows whether the occupants of the car were in agreement with his decision to endanger their lives.

looks like suicide by cop to me, although if he was shot and instinctively reached for a wound, I would change my opinion.

Still - I think I would have left the gun in the car - hopped out arms up and fell face forward into the snow until I got a knee on my neck.

then again, I would have tried like hell to avoid being in that position to begin with.

Maybe I'm a sheeple.

But I saw an SUV load of armed individuals from a forced takeover of a wildlife refuge flee from a stop and attempt to evade a roadblock.

One of the individuals who had many times spoke of his intent to die rather than be taken into custody then does what the guy did (note: no one else in the vehicle, complying with instructions, appeared to suffer so much as a bruise).

Like I said, maybe I'm a sheeple, but I found myself thinking what a risky stop that was for the Cops. They had no way of knowing whether or not the occupants of said vehicle were going to come out shooting, and it ain't like all the Cops were ensconced behind barricades.

YMMV,
Birdwatcher

I'm old school. I don't care if someone is reaching for their pocket. I want to see what comes out of the pocket before I shoot. I'm good enough. I guess most cops don't believe they are.

It was a detonator.

Now what?

Do you feel lucky? Or just "good enough"?

Everyone has differing opinions on what happened and what was seen in the video.

From my perspective:

Was it an "ambush"?

Well sort of, yeah.

The way this transpired with the felony stop, followed up by the roadblock incident is pretty much straight by the play book. The felony stop didn't work because the truck fled that scene until the roadblock. The roadblock did get them stopped. There were LEO placed away from the roadblock vehicles in case the truck decided to ram the roadblock.

The idea of a felony stop with this blueprint is to take into custody the people without endangering innocent lives in a populated area.

The video.

What I saw happen was that Mr. F exited the truck and made haste to put some distance between himself and the other occupants in the truck, as not to involve them in a hail of gunfire and confusion.

To get the distance he felt he needed before making his stand, he exited the truck with hands up and rapidly gained the distance he sought. Once he was far enough away from the truck, he made his stand. He didn't get very far with it though, and died as a result.

I don't believe he had any intention of "giving up".

His haste to put distance between himself and the other occupants was simply to not involve his friends in the upcoming gunfight.

The Mess

While everyone's opinion is subjective, mine is that things could have been handled differently.

There was never even one report or incident where the protestors pointed a weapon at anyone throughout the occupation. They were allowed to come and go at will, as were the reporters, or anyone else that wanted to go to the refuge and have contact with the occupiers.

If they were so dangerous, and so radical, why didn't the ones in charge simply isolate them, cut power and internet, and not allow anyone to come or go, or especially let them intermingle with people in town?

That sort of tactics is NOT out of the playbook. If they were such a threat to public safety, then why weren't they locked down? At any of several points in the whole incident, the occupiers could have taken as many hostages as they wanted. They could have started a huge bloodbath if that was what they wanted.

They didn't.

Mistakes were made by both sides.

I doubt the whole thing has done either side any good. The issues still remain, and those that want to spin their agenda now have the opportunity to do so.

Or the loaded 9mm that was in the pocket he appeared to be reaching for.

Maybe Dan is superman but I doubt it

The enhanced and zoomed videos on Youtube to my eyes clearly shows his hand go into his left interior jacket pocket twice before what appears to be 3 bullets (he reacts to all 3 rounds) striking him.

I also don't buy the reaching to self splint the bullet holes theory. Having treated many GSW's in the field through my professional life, not a 1 has repeatedly reached under a cover garment to self splint a GSW, they apply pressure over the top of their clothes.

The fact that their was aerial footage of this event to me also means the feds very likely had same prior to the group leaving the refuge and knew there were 2 loaded long guns in the truck. They are in the boonies with none of the potential threats one might find in an urban enviroment.

Who takes loaded long guns to a very rural public meeting with LE if they dont think their may be a gunfight with LE? CCW sure but why long guns?

I don't care if he pulled out a Snickers bar. Police were most likely barking out orders. In this situation, for anyone, you stand still and comply, comply, comply. Make your argument in court. Maybe he didn't want to go that route, or whatever.

He especially knew the sensitivity of the situation. Unless he was concussed or had some other reason not to understand/comply, if he farts he's going to get shot. These officers have a responsibility to each other and their families to go home. They didn't initiate this and they should all go home safe.

It looked like he also spun around quickly - not sure if that was from being shot. If not, it could be seen as an act of aggression. Again, stand freaking still and comply!

I hate to see anyone die. He had his side of the story and the gov't theirs. I don't claim to judge that. It's a shame.

Slap a lot a leather in the Air Force did ya? LOL

I just don't see how any thinking person can find fault with the cops in THIS shooting.

Regardless of what led up to this, the guy's ACTIONS placed the cops in the right.

He ain't necessarily WRONG..... just necessarily DEAD.

....and it hasn't occurred to anybody that the fellow that was up in the trees may very well have simply gone up there to take a dump.

Chit happens.

GTC

I thought the same thing.

Maybe, but it's a no brainer that, if they ran, they were either gonna crash or hit the ditch. It would be pretty dumb to not be ready for the occupants to run for the woods, with time to prepare.

I'm old school too, I like to go home to my family every night. No one who has declared his intent not to be taken, is known to pack wherever he goes, evades a roadblock, almost hits one of my guys with his truck, and reaches into his waistband is going to take that from me.

The dude punched his own ticket.