Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

As what - the janitor?

Now, there's a question that you should really ponder.

Yeah - I should know better.

I put my vest pocket 25 in the weak side pants pocket or jacket pocket.

Strong side is for the real gun.

The people buying into that statement and the 18 y/o girl's statement show just how much can be stirred up by ignorant assumptions.

You have to be born a complete fugking moron to believe this.



Yes, I am a well known moron. Perhaps you could assist me and answer some of those questions for me based on that video. When were the first shots fired? Did Lavoy's hands go to his side before or after he was shot? Why did his hands appear to go for gun at least twice, and yet he produced no firearm? If he intended to commit suicide by cop why not exit the vehicle with a drawn weapon? Why would the FBI go to the trouble of having airborne video footage, but haven't produced any ground footage with sound which might add clarity to the situation?

That logic has no place in this discussion.

If you don't want answers to those questions you're a complete fugking moron from Montana.

No offense, but you're assuming that someone that is contemplating suicide by cop is going to do it in a manner that is logical, coherent, and easily discerned by other people?

Something I've learned years ago is that it will take a real "different" type of person to discern the actions of someone not behaving "logically".

The 'intent' seemed fairly straightforward and clear to me just from the way their SUV came rolling in to the roadblock.

And don't forget HIS public statement that he'd, "Rather be dead than caged".

C'mon now...... you MUST be surprised that the thread is doing so well without my input.

I don't think I assumed anything. I just want to know how those questions are answered by that video. It is certainly possible that Lavoy exited that vehicle with the intention committing suicide, or decided to draw a weapon after he exited. It is also possible, as two witnesses have stated, that his hands were in the air when he was shot. I can't be sure based on that video, but then I am intellectually challenged.

Nah...you, at least, don't like to get made look stupid. We all make mistakes, but there comes a time when we need to man up to them and save a little dignity.

You're not challenged, you're asking questions that need answering. THE questions that need answering. Without the answers to those questions, we DO NOT KNOW what happened.

The one's that don't care about precisely those questions, for the sake of accuracy, have drunk the guv Koolaid and can be ignored.

One witness said she was on the floorboard with her "eyes down" and heard police shoot the vehicle "at least 100 times". Shawna Cox was interviewed by a reporter over the phone in jail and said Finicum had a pistol and repeatedly told police, "Just shoot me, just shoot me", as he exited the truck. And the idiot claiming to be shot in the wrist was likely hit with a less lethal round.

Finicum got exactly what he wanted, dead. The good thing is, assisted suicide is legal in Oregon.

Good read, thanks for the tip.

I am surprised at the "objective reasonableness" standard. Considering the wildly varied (crazy) reactions on this forum to the FBI footage, i am going to go out on a limb and say- objectivity may be the weakness in this standard. With intent being out of bounds, it basically comes down to the sensibilities of a jury. OK

[quote=Peator][quote=deflave]This thread is an excellent example of the ignorance that consumes our citizens today.

I HIGHLY recommend a whole bunch of you read up and study the 4th Amendment and how it is interpreted by the courts in our country today. More specifically, Graham vs Connor.



Thanks, I looked that up. It was interesting.
"...the question is whether the officers' actions are 'objectively reasonable' in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation.."

If Lavoy appeared to reach for a weapon then the officers' actions would be considered reasonable by most. If he was shot with his hands the air and instinctively grasped at his wounds, or reached for a weapon after he was shot then many would not consider that reasonable. I still can't tell by watching that video.

For some of us, it's not that we don't care - it's that we take the video in the context of the witness statements.....some of which are absolutely ridiculous.

Armchair Matlocks at the 'fire, TFF.....

No, it's the 24 Hour Campfire CSI Special Target Forensic Unit (24HCFCSISTFU).

The Special Targets are those acting "under color of law".