Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters SCOPE LEVELING QUESTION

It's just one way to skin the cat and seems like a fairly good one.

Other ways work as well. I know because I've seen guys pegging scheit at 1200 yds that used other methods.

To claim spirit levels can't achieve good results, means I now know 5 people who have experienced miracles...

Hallelujah

I didn't say spirit levels can't produce good results, just that the odds against it are considerable, especially when using two tiny spirit levels mass-produced for the least amount of money possible. Those weren't miracles, they were accidents--if the only factor in zeroing at 1200 was the use of cheap spirit-level reticle devices.

Both I and more than one precision gunsmith have tested a number of cheap spirit-level devices and have yet to find one that produces consistent results when used on several rifles.

The beauty of the Reticle Tru is simplicity, eliminating potential variables introduced by levels, devices, external reference points, etc. As mentioned, level qulaity and precision varies. Going direct, reticle alignment with action axis, is about as simple as it gets.

KISS.

IMO, the Reticle Tru wins the KISS award, hands down.

DF

If your scope is mounted improperly, you won't know if the reason you have to adjust is due to misjudging the wind, canting the rifle because you don't have a properly installed bubble level, or a scope mounted improperly turned in the rings.

Yep. That's why I don't use a head space gauge to measure how far I'm bumping the shoulders when I size my brass, use a scale to weigh powder charges, use a caliper and a bullet comparator to seat bullets, a concentricity gauge to check bullet seating straightness, or even calipers to measure case length to determine when to trim.

I just eyeball those things. There's just too many errors induced by measuring tools.

Gotta Keep It Simple....

You are eyeballing them. You use your eyeball to operate each of those tools and determine the measurement

I agree. It does an outstanding job.

As I mentioned earlier, I had "eyeballed" the AR pictured, thought it was was perfect.

When I used the Reticle Tru, I saw that it was not as perfect as I thought.

Eyeballing is good, Reticle-Tru makes it more precise...

DF

I want a Reticle-Tru now.

Regarding mass produced spirit levels and the vagaries thereof... that would be potentially problematic if using a spirit level as a tool for leveling the scope in the rings and if it was your only reference.

Instead, use a plumb line! Gravity does the work, and it's pretty much perfect. Then, with the vertical stadia exactly true to the plumb line, use a cheap mass-produced spirit level that is attached to the scope and calibrate it such that it shows level.

Now when you are shooting, if you arrange the rifle such that that wanky little level shows level, you know your vertical stadia is at true plumb.

Further, if you run a tall target test with a true plumb line on it, and your reticle tracks up the plumb line, then you know you've got it nailed... as a practical matter.

So the only eyeballing required is to get that vertical stadia bisecting the bore. When I visualize a slightly "off" condition, meaning the vertical stadia isn't exactly bisecting the bore, what I come up with is a STATIC error; an offset. Meaning, if you are off by 1/64" in the horizontal direction from a true bisection of the bore, you've introduced a 1/64" offset to either side. But that is not a diverging error; it doesn't grow with distance.

So to me the beauty of the Reticle-Tru is that it adds precision to that one step that you cannot properly quantify and nail down-- getting the vertical stadia to bisect the bore.

It's almost like someone has already thought all this through! Hmmmm....

Good job Hi-Vel!

This is a Precision Scope Mount. If you want your equipment to be set up as well as humanly possible, it's necessary. You'll need to go to Score High Gunsmithing to get it done as well.

For shooters who are shooting 1 to 2 MOA targets and at Long Range, it's a requirement.

For the dude who's shooting deer and elk at 200 yards, it's a choice. The Reticle Tru will probably be perfect for him.



1. Insure that the scope and action (center of the bore) are in the same vertical plane

This is critical and must be done with an apparatus that can rigidly hold the action. It also must be done with "U"-shaped, accurately-machined metal fixtures that fit over the scope and action simultaneously. The fixtures must fit tightly over the scope tube and action. If any slop exists, thin feeler gauge strips must be added around the action to eliminate the slop.

A "not cheap" level must be used on top of the fixture to level it exactly.

2. Sight through the scope with the rings loose enough to allow adjustments at a perfectly laser-leveled plumb line and turn the scope in the rings to align the vertical crosshair to the plumb line.

3. Tighten the rings. This is tricky because tightening each screw will minutely move the scope and position of the vertical stadia. It may actually take a couple of trys slightly tightening in round robin fashion.

4. Once the scope is tight in the rings and the vertical stadia is perfectly aligned with the plumb line that is perfectly vertical to the center of the Earth, run the elevation knob to each limit while viewing its tracking on the plumb line. It shouldn't leave the line. The scope mounted in such a way that the vertical centerline of the bore and the vertical centerline of the scope has no more variation than one thousandth (.001) of an inch in six inches.

It's common for some scopes to leave the line toward the end of travel. Where they do is considered the top end of "Reliable Travel" and should be noted. Just because the scope is able to dial more before it stops doesn't mean that travel is reliable.

At this point, install a bubble level on the scope while it is in the fixture and perfectly level. Pay attention to it when you're shooting!






From Score High:

Wow, Rick. What a set up.

All that is way beyond my level of equipment and expertise, probably for 99+% of rifle shooters.

For the rest of us, the Reticle Tru is about the right level of sophistication...

That's impressive.

DF

I just ordered one of these in each size.

Why go through all the hassle? Just buy the nylon POS, eyeball it dead nuts to the bolt shroud that's perfectly centered to the barrel bore and you're good to go!

Could you possibly be any more supercilious? There are several shooters who've commented on their use of the Reticle Tru who do much more than shoot deer and elk at 200 yards.

All that trouble to mount a Leupold...

I'm going to keep using my thumb and the whiskey eye.

Hate to keep repeating this but if it tracks right up a plumb line on a tall target test, then all the rest is kinda academic.... isn't it? I mean if it's not, please educate me... not trying to be abrasive here.

Hey Azzhole,

WTF is wrong with my statement? For 200 yards at targets that big, the Reticle Tru will get the scope mounted well enough to kill them even if the level of precision is less than optimal.

Other than that, GFY you cantankerous SOB!

Technically, nothing. It's just supercilious.

When people like Pat, MD, and Jordan endorse a product that you've never used ("how does this gizmo work?") and then you say "it's perfect for the guy who just wants to shoot elk and deer at 200 yards," it just shows that your opinion of yourself is exceeded only by your ignorance of the product.

Shyt, anybody who needs a scope to shoot deer at 200 yards is either half blind or a pitifully poor rifleman. That's well within iron sight range for someone who can shoot.