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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Read the whole thread and it is an interesting one.
Which begs the question...
Why bother hunting, tracking, stopping wounded bears with anything over 30 caliber?
OR
Is there a scenario in which the over 30 cal rifle gives the hunter or guide an advantage?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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How heavy is a brown bears shoulder bone structure compared to an elk or a moose? I answered your question right after you posted it... Thanks. No idea how I missed that.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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How heavy is a brown bears shoulder bone structure compared to an elk or a moose? I answered your question right after you posted it... Thanks. No idea how I missed that. No problem, it is easy to get lost in a thread like this...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,648 Likes: 2 |
Read the whole thread and it is an interesting one.
Which begs the question...
Why bother hunting, tracking, stopping wounded bears with anything over 30 caliber?
OR
Is there a scenario in which the over 30 cal rifle gives the hunter or guide an advantage? I used a 300WM through the late '80s-early '90s and felt comfy enough with it. I stepped up to a 375 and then a 375AI because of a couple situations that left me wanting a bit more. Coincidentally I started shooting Barnes bullets about then... Any of my smaller bore rifles are lighter than my 375s... and they handle a little quicker.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Read the whole thread and it is an interesting one.
Which begs the question...
Why bother hunting, tracking, stopping wounded bears with anything over 30 caliber?
OR
Is there a scenario in which the over 30 cal rifle gives the hunter or guide an advantage?
I hope this is a joke. It's kind of like asking, since 3 ounces of red meat supplies all the protein one needs from meat in any given day, why eat more? As usual, this thread ran tangents whereby we have determined that only 9 ounces of Tiberian gazelle meat is truly enough, but if it's cooked just right, even a 6 ounce monkey steak can suffice. 
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,648 Likes: 2 |
Never knew there were 6 ounce monkeys...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It's kind of like asking, since 3 ounces of red meat supplies all the protein one needs from meat in any given day, why eat more? As usual, this thread ran tangents whereby we have determined that only 9 ounces of Tiberian gazelle meat is truly enough, but if it's cooked just right, even a 6 ounce monkey steak can suffice. Which is why at times I prefer the most satisfying feeling of my 458 ! ![[Linked Image]](http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk168/Grizskins/P1020426.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk168/Grizskins/bearskull.jpg)
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
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Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,977 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
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Read the whole thread and it is an interesting one.
Which begs the question...
Why bother hunting, tracking, stopping wounded bears with anything over 30 caliber?
OR
Is there a scenario in which the over 30 cal rifle gives the hunter or guide an advantage?
While I might be willing to hunt the large bears with a sub .30 caliber rifle, I sure wouldn't want to see one in my guides hands. I've read stories of native guides backing up bear clients with .30-30's. In that situation I'd carry a .338.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
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Read the whole thread and it is an interesting one.
Which begs the question...
Why bother hunting, tracking, stopping wounded bears with anything over 30 caliber?
OR
Is there a scenario in which the over 30 cal rifle gives the hunter or guide an advantage?
While I might be willing to hunt the large bears with a sub .30 caliber rifle, I sure wouldn't want to see one in my guides hands. I've read stories of native guides backing up bear clients with .30-30's. In that situation I'd carry a .338. This. I have no do have a dog in this fight other than having bear on my list. I would feel comfy HUNTING a bear with my 30/06, but I know I'd reach for my 9.3 in a charge/tracking situation. I realize a charge would not allow that convenience.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,634 Likes: 2 |
I think ol' Roy himself liked the 257 Bee for African game. It was his favorite caliber but in his book he admits he had some spectacular kills...and failures with that caliber. Had he been able to use what we have today, I think a lot more folks would be using his calibers. back then, bullets were just not up to the task. After seeing Phil's post on his "satisfying feeling" the 458 affords him, one has to be AN IDIOT, to show up for a big bear hunt with a 3006 and bordering on lunacy with anything lighter. Having been up close to a pissed off elephant once, I can more or less relate. The 416 Rigby I had with me left me wishing for a 417 or even better some Close Air Support!
Last edited by jorgeI; 04/12/16.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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I know that feeling!
My PH in Cameroon decided the wind and cover were right to sneak up to within 25 yards of herd of elephants. I was holding my .450/400 and just had this feeling of being naked and vulnerable should the situation "change". Anything that did have a lanyard attached wouldn't not have given me confidence.
I'd recommend .338 and up for Brown Bear, but let me admit I've not taken one. Big brown bears are substantial critters. .375 H & H is the minimum for African DG game including lion and buffalo for a reason. I'd consider a big brown bear to be in that same class.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
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I think ol' Roy himself liked the 257 Bee for African game. It was his favorite caliber but in his book he admits he had some spectacular kills...and failures with that caliber. Had he been able to use what we have today, I think a lot more folks would be using his calibers. back then, bullets were just not up to the task. After seeing Phil's post on his "satisfying feeling" the 458 affords him, one has to be AN IDIOT, to show up for a big bear hunt with a 3006 and bordering on lunacy with anything lighter. Having been up close to a pissed off elephant once, I can more or less relate. The 416 Rigby I had with me left me wishing for a 417 or even better some Close Air Support! But then Phil may also get that "satisfying feeling" when a hunter shows up with .30-06 or less loaded with a proper bullet that he can handle rather than the alternate.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
jorge,
I guess Phil's an idiot, since he's often carried a .30-06 when backing up brown bear hunters.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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jorge,
I guess Phil's an idiot, since he's often carried a .30-06 when backing up brown bear hunters. Oops!
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,634 Likes: 2 |
jorge,
I guess Phil's an idiot, since he's often carried a .30-06 when backing up brown bear hunters. I guess so (sorry, Phil). Edited to add: then why the 458 and it goes for anybody else that shows up in Africa with an 06 as a backup, not to mention that "showing up" clearly defines a client, but now that you bring it up, if I were with anybody going into the alders with an 06, my response would be, "I'll wait right here, and give me the keys to the airplane and let me hold your wallet"...
Last edited by jorgeI; 04/12/16.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219 |
Sometimes a man's gotta do what he's gotta do to make a living. BTDT
Last edited by EZEARL; 04/12/16.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845 |
There's a lot of common sense in this thread and a fair portion of common senselessness, as usual. I've never hunted big bears; but, some things just make sense. If I was a guide for big browns and a client showed up with a 375 for his bear hunt, my first questions would be "how long you been shooting a 375?". If his answer was anything close to "I got it for this hunt", I would politely ask if he would please consider using my 270/280/30-06 instead.
Last edited by TheBigSky; 04/12/16.
_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
After seeing Phil's post on his "satisfying feeling" the 458 affords him, one has to be AN IDIOT, to show up for a big bear hunt with a 3006 and bordering on lunacy with anything lighter.
It would be interesting to know, though probably difficult to quantify, what calibers of rifles used by clients, have required the most frequent follow-up shots by guides in bear hunting situations.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
I"ll have to ask Spencer when I get a chance, but all our conversations I can recall there were 2 things they hated, ballistic tip type bullets and guns they clients could not shoot. I know he always said he'd rather the client shoot a small gun and hit the vitals on the first shot, rather than the client be sold a gun he won't shoot enough, can't handle by a gun "store" salsemen because the cant' be killed with an 06...
IIRC there was a story from them about a farmer that brought his old 270... that never had a single issue...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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