Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting The 300 Wby Mag for elk- is there anything better?

And penetrates steel? Wow, that's sweet!

This question needs to be asked,during what part of the animals death did the bullet fail?

The point you guys are trying to make is also based complete non sense, but carry on.

Yes, poorly designed shape. And retaining velocity is a pretty important function.

I did assume anything, yiur the one that posted those apples and oranges photos to try and pump your favorite bullet.

It went right over his head, BW.

I think Coyote Hunter means well. But he's dense as fück.

Your contention that the NF are "poorly designed" is like that of a Corvette owner claiming the F250 diesel trucks are "poorly designed" because they can't go as fast as the Corvette. Such claims totally ignore the designer's goals. While a F250 may not be the right choice for the Corvette owner, the Corvette owner's assessment is hardly a universal truth - as any F250 owner with a heavy load to haul will tell you. A Corvette wouldn't have had any problem beating my F250 up I-70 to the Eisenhower-Johnson tunnels but it couldn't do so at legal speeds even if I had a bed full of gear and my boat or camper in tow. As I said before, form follows function.

Both Mike Brady, the original NF designer, and the current NF owners are totally unapologetic regarding the NF bullet shape. The NF bullets were never intended for long range use but rather to perform extremely well from the muzzle to ranges well past where most game is taken. You, like the Corvette owner, are fixated on a single attribute (B.C.) and the conclusion you come to is no more valid than a claim that Newtonian physics are universal truths. (Any nuclear physicist will tell you they are not and that they only apply to certain frames of reference and scale.)

If retaining velocity is so important, why do you prefer AB when there are bullets available that do a much better job at that? If B.C. is the primary consideration, AB bullets are clearly "poorly designed".

BW is suggesting by using NF I've turned my .280 into something less, just as, is his mind, their usage turns my 7mm RM into something less. It is a contention arising from ignorance or stupidity, take your pick.

BW is fixated on high B.C. and if that's the primary characteristic by which he wants to assess a bullet, that's fine. I place a much higher value terminal performance at the ranges where I have and expect to actually take game. A 7mm-08 can't keep up with my .280 Rem and it can't keep up with my 7mm RM, regardless of the bullet used.

BW isn't even consistent. On one hand he talks about 'arbitrary criteria' and the importance of retained velocity, yet 'arbitrary criteria' is exactly what he uses when he chooses AB over bullets that do a much better job of retaining velocity. The truth is he is using very much the same 'arbitrary criteria' I use when selecting the AB - trust in the terminal performance at the ranges of intended use.

Wow!

Things sure have changed since friends and I stuffed 30/06's, 300 winchesters, H&H's and Weatherby's with 165, 180,and 200 gr Nosler Partitions and Bitterroots and shot them at bull elk and other animals ,both close up and out to almost 600 yards (in a couple of cases). BTW all these were mature bulls...maybe one or two spikes or rag heads.

We noticed if they were hit right with these bullets, regardless of distance, they collapsed like sock puppets. There was no concern about penetration with lots of Noslers exiting,and the BBCs would ball up under the off side hide after breaking things and turning chest cavities to soup if distances were really short, or blow exits depending on distances and what they hit and how fast they were started. Penetration was never inadequate.

If distances were long so that velocity drained, the BBC would expand but tended to exit more than at closer distances. Surprisingly the higher velocities of magnum cartridges caused BBC's to expand more fully at distance and were more likely to be recovered.

None of this mattered as everything from where they went in to where they came to rest was a mess of broken bones and pureed vital organs. We discovered that a 140 BBC from a 7 mag at 3250 or a 165 from a 300 mag at the same velocity was a bomb on anything up to elk in size despite sometimes not exiting and with penetration being far more than enough,elastic off side hide being all that caught them. Train wreck in between.

Never saw any correlation in killing effectiveness between a bullet that exited and one that didn't, so long as the wound channel went to the far side all the way to the off side hide. Did see one Nosler solid base blow up in one lung of a big Colorado mule deer,,,,the off side was clean as a whistle . I was not impressed.

Partitions did it somewhat differently with wound channels smaller and narrower but somewhat more penetration on closer shots , i.e. more likely to exit. But neither one was ever lacking and I never noticed much need for improvement, None ever "failed".

Two best game killing bullets I've ever used.Not much need for me to change this late in my career.


Never used a Barnes. I hear good things from good friends with LOTS of Barnes experience...especially TTSX and the new long range ones. But I know these guys and trust their judgement. They have killed LOTS of animals with them.JMHO.

I am suggesting that your dropping velocity needlessly with NF bullets. You even provided the numbers!
And I do not use high BC target bullets. I also don't sling bricks..

...maybe one or two spikes or rag heads.

So you have a need to shed velocity faster than you have to?
Your connecting the dots that aren't there on your last paragraph.
You would think a guy that pumped one in the guts and lost it due to the wind would see the light.. some guys are hard learners..

While I could use a higher B.C. bullet I would have to trade off other features that I value more highly. This is exactly what you do when you choose the AB over higher B.C. bullets. The dots are there, you just can't see them or refuse to admit that you do.

While an inch or two difference in wind drift can make a difference, it is possible but doubtful that the elk I shot in the liver (based on the very dark blood trail) would have suffered a different fate if I had used an AB instead of a NF bullet.