Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Why Local Land Management Matters

Thanks Dave. I plan to pretend to kill an elk this September 3+ miles (!!) up the side of a mountain.

And if that fantasy pans out, I'm gonna try to pretend to kill a bear.

Then later, I'll do my best to pretend to kill a pronghorn, but it'll be one of those "once in a lifetime" trips across state lines.

All on public land. Because Bernie Sanders told me I could. "Power to the People!!"

What are you going to pretend?

Wait, I know:

"The sky is falling"

In the Flathead National Forest, fire suppression costs totaled about $14.5 million, including the $3.2 million spent on the 70,906-acre Bear Creek Fire on the Spotted Bear Ranger District. Additional costs from rehabilitation are expected to continue piling up into next year.

The Trail Creek Fire was the forest’s second-largest. Also in the Spotted Bear District, it spanned 21,968 acres and cost $520,000.

The Glacier Rim Fire north of Columbia Falls only burned 100 acres but was the first major wildland fire of the summer. It cost $1.6 million to put out, due mainly to the heavy use of air resources in the hazardous, snag-ridden fire area.

Overall, Flathead National Forest had 119 wildfires this year, with 98,311 acres burned.

So the local control folks are naturally going to insist the locals pay the tab for the fire control, right? Wouldn't want the Feds to intervene and provide funding for something they wouldn't own! So $5.3 million divided by...didn't someone say 3,000 people? Dunno if that is right, but lets use it. Comes out to just under $1800 per person. Welcome to local control boys and girls. Oh, we aren't talking road maintenance yet either. Just fire control.

What a bunch of pure BS.

The classic example of what happens with collaboration is the what happened with the Owyhee's. I know several of the landowners that were involved in expanding the existing wilderness there as well as the scenic river corridor. Some of the wilderness areas were reduced in size, boundaries were changed where it made sense, willing seller, willing buyer agreements, etc. It worked great because the locals, as well as the special interests, sat down and hammered out a compromise.

Trust me Skinner, guys like you would have been shown the door after the first meeting. Those that weren't willing to suffer some pain for gain, they were asked to leave.

Also, show me where the 1964 wilderness act was to be a "one and done" act. It wasn't ever intended to be, and there wouldn't have been jack chit for compromise if that would have been the case. There is NO WAY that the wilderness advocates in '64 would have ever made the concessions they did to get the initial act passed if it were "one and done". You can take that "fact" to the bank.

If what you are saying is true than why the wilderness study areas? Why the need for RARE I and RAREII in the 1970's?

Again, the fact is, there was nothing in the 1964 act to be a barrier for later designations...and exactly why there have been designations since 1964.

You need to check yourself, and study some resource policy as you simply are not, in any way, shape, or form qualified to talk about these issues.

Bar-stool knowledge on your best day.

BerettaMan, Good question. That's been my point from the beginning. Those that live in states with very little public land and an absolutely f'kd up ecology (exotic species) want the rest of us to suffer like them. They couldn't afford one fire season but when more houses and cabins go in the cost of fighting what once was a wildfire but now, because of the houses, becomes a defense of life and property battle the costs go up exponentially. I read where each habitable structure cost $8000 compared to approximately $100 for the same area in its "natural" state. I'm not a proponent of modern wildfire practices but don't see my let it burn and regenerate or selectively thinning attitude getting any traction in today's political climate. Turning control over to the states is the most backassward "thinking" and exactly why I won't vote for another Texan.

States will be broke by the end of their first summer!

Haven't read the thread. Won't. But as a born and bred Westerner, currently living in a state with a HUGE amount of public land, I say this. Those of you living in places without that, really have no idea what you are talking about. To privatize or put into state hands would be a huge mistake and would amount to a great loss of freedom and opportunity.

As Buzz says, these are collaborative efforts. The place I hunted last fall- Steens Mtn- has been undergoing a similar process (land swaps, consolidations, etc). You go into that heavenly PUBLIC region and tromp around a while and then tell me why public access is a bad thing.

There is more to "the land" than what can make someone a buck. I am genuinely sorry that some can't understand that.

This map shows the public land in OR. Note, that's a map of both alWashington and Oregon. Look at how much public land there is. Any of us- ANY! of US! - can go camp, fish, shoot, hunt, etc on virtually any of that. And we do.

You can have my vast tracts of public land when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.

Volunteer Fire Depts. make do just fine with what donations, fundraisers and grants they get. And do a fine job. If there is more fire than the dept. can handle, the others are waiting for the call.

There are many, many firefighter hotshot teams waiting on a call as well.

As far as road maintenance, in the county where I lived that was vastly Natl. Forest and BLM, they didn't own a road grader between them, much less anyone to man it.

The county did all the road work, and the USFS was billed for the small percentage their roads were in the mix.

Coming from your sorry, Obama voting, gun control enthusiast azz, that's just epic.

Where'd you steal that slogan?

Heck yes, I don't know why I didnt think of that. We are going to pay for millions of dollars of fire fighting with bake sales, gun raffles, and free Hot Shot teams. Wait, Hotshot teams are free, right? Nobody has to pay for them?

$1800 per person. Per year. Just for fire fighting. A family of 4 would have to buy $7200 worth of apple pie.

Right.

Have you figured in how much more money would come in to local governments if permit fees are charged for industry that cannot get permits now on federal lands?

Or how many local residents would be able to go to work in those industries?

Communism equals suppression.

Capitalism equals growth and strong economy.

All the states that are mostly, or close to mostly federal lands are always about two hairs away from bankruptcy, waiting for the next government rescue check.

While the states that support themselves and pay taxes are the ones footing the bills for them.

Wonder why?

this is BS. firefighters are but a tiny portion of the fire fighting cost. air tankers bulldozers, and helicopters are gonna cost wayyy more than a small rural dept can pay. beside this, a large wildland fire will overwhelm even a well prepared dept.

those Hotshots? they cost money...

They cost more than the USFS & BLM can pay too.

They hire mostly private companies. I know a guy with a couple of old cargo planes they hire.

Compromise?
Is that where things are fine as they are, then the powers that be come alone and say we want 10 of it, so folks compromise and they only take 5 or 6?

Then next time they play the same game over again, and take 5 more?

"Whenever there are in any country uncultivated lands and
unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so
far extended as to violate natural right." --Thomas Jefferson to
James Madison, 1785.

I've spent many years fighting wildland fires, both on the local volunteer level, and as part of a type 1 Strike Team.

believe me, we made sure the big boys were on board before we got on the radio and ordered an air tanker.

Rockin---You are a level headed guy and one I respect but you are way in over head on this one. I guarndamntee you that fighting a fire in steep rugged mountainous terrain is a little more than most volunteer fire departments are up for and a hell of a lot different than a shed fire in BillyTom Texas. They do supplement professional wildland firefighters but are not the tip of the spear. As to your bake sale "idea", in case you were serious and not just spitballing great ideas, get on it. Once you've sold about a $500,000,000 of brownies then you'll be ready to start. Just remember you're going to have to do that each year. Lemonade sales at western firecamps might get help out with your bottom line. We'll build a continuous 50 foot high wall across southern Texas before bake sales and raffles will fund wild fires.

There would be far, far less numbers of huge forest fires as we have seen in recent years, if the forest were managed properly, and logging and clearing of brush were allowed.

Usually, the fundraisers they have here are damn good BBQ's.

Been to several of them.

No way? You guys would've had to have one hell of a bake sale. Like selling lemonade in a fire camp, instead of a bake sale firefighters can make good money doing a car wash. 😉
There are a lot of cops wives that like a good car wash, even when their husbands just washed it. Lol