Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Hell is real, and you're not going to like it..

I withdrew my earlier post, thanks for noticing.

In addition, this is a public forum. The only person who owns anything on it is Rick.

Lolol...,yeah 'cause that's what you did. You give yourself too much credit, far, far too much credit.

That, is the ultimate condescension, right there. That implies that "believers" are not thinkers, that they have not delved deeply into the subject matter already without you and are incapable of reaching the same conclusion you have.

You keep berating and jumping into matters that only serve to drive others away. You are not "enlightening" anyone on the subject of faith, you are only acting in a selfish, arrogant manner.

Ed

and why don't you put 'Sniper on 'Ignore' instead of whining?

I did see just the period remaining where your earlier post was and did not know it was you that had removed it. As far as I knew, Rick had edited it.

As to this being a public forum, just because you CAN jump in and continue to denigrate other people's beliefs, does NOT mean that you should.

Juvenile, arrogant, self-centered behavior is not acceptable, irrespective of the medium.

Ed

Actually Ed, you are wrong.

I enjoy the subject, I just have a different perspective then you. I find it interesting that you seen to think freedom of expression on this subject only belongs to the believers, and that you should have some right to exclude those who see the world differently.

If you really have the facts on your side I wouldn't expect you to mind a little debate. If on the other hand, if all you have is faith despite evidence to the contrary, you might not like it when presented with the contrary evidence. But if you actually care about the truth, why would you abject to evidence?

Because someone disagrees with your behavior does not mean that they are 'whining".

This isn't whining, this is pointing out unacceptable behavior.

As to putting Antelope Sniper on "ignore", I have too much respect for his opinions. It's his delivery on this subject that I find completely unacceptable.

He has a great deal of knowledge and I would love to sit down and share a meal and talk about a number of subjects, including faith.

Ed

AS--I've enjoyed your perspective on many threads but not EVERY thread. It is a "public" forum and you should be allowed your opinion but you should also allow others to have their own as well. The Doc prefaced this in the OP and its been brought to your attention again.

I do not have all of the facts, no one does. The matter of debating is a wonderful thing. If we didn't think through the issues we encounter in life, we wouldn't last long. People have very different ideas of things because of their life experiences and their upbringing and I am always questioning and trying to learn everything I can.

The issue here is what are described as physical, psychological, and sociological "facts" cannot be compared to "faith". It's like comparing apples and granite.

I cannot brow-beat you into accepting Christ as the risen Son of God any more than you can brow-beat anyone here into denying their faith.

Which brings me back to my question; Why do you do keep doing this?

Ed

Jeff_O,



In case you didn't notice this country was founded on Christian principals. Read some US history in a book before the revisionists change the facts. It has deteriorated to what we see to day.

See, the Union winning wasn't such a good thing, was it?

Ed, that post was directed to Ace in the context of his earlier post where he declared:
"My faith coupled with my experiences aren't up for debate. I'm glad I have the faith that I do. I wish everyone had it."

So, yes, I was calling him out on his previous statement that he didn't want to apply logic or reason to his faith, nor seek the truth, but just believe what he wanted to believe, because he wanted to believe.

In contrast I've always considered you a pretty thoughtful guy, and not necessarily one who would consider that a shoe he could wear.

Besides, as Christians go, I tend to see you in the mold of Scott and Rost. Mistaken on the facts, but critical enough you are not hurting anyone in the process.

antelope_sniper,



The Humanist religion is not trying to control others, it is. Just this week I heard on the news Bibles are being kicked out of libraries in this country! What happened to tolerance? O yea. Everything is tolerated except anything to do with the God of the Bible.

Poor analogy there, Jeff...

We could set up a meeting (such as the Icebreaker) with you, me and anyone else who wants to attend and agree to some set definitions for proving who can 'shoot far'.

Caliber restrictions, rests allowed, scope specs, sighters, distances, et al. We could then in front of witnesses 'prove' scientifically who can or can't meet the criteria set forth.

To try to place metaphysical religious topics in the same plane of 'truth' or 'knowing' is absurd.

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli [June 10, 1797]: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Technically Humanism is not a religion because it does not include a belief in the a deity figure not afterlife. As for the Bible being removed from libraries, if you had actually read the article carefully, in some instances it was removed from Elementary School libraries, and there is much in the Bible that is not appropriate for that audience.

Yeah it's amazing so many of us survived Sunday school. Ohh the horror...

I find it interesting that those who complain about dissent on religious threads are always those with the least to offer in terms of cogent arguments. Plainly apparent on this thread and every other 'religious' topic on the fire.

This who wish to commune in an echo chamber may either start a group PM or, perhaps, start their own website with totalitarian control over who posts and what.

I will say I like Doc R and most of his posts. When I made some points in the original timeline of this thread he admitted he didn't have all the answers. He also admitted the problems pointed out in the article I posted on Ebeneezer's book (while that link was met with thunderous silence from the peanut gallery).

Having said that, with all due respect to the Doc I thnk his choice of thread title was Bullschit. He didn't ask, "is hell real?' He stated it was and then referenced what is inescapable in Christian theology--namely, that those who don't ascribe to the beliefs of the Christian theology will be tortured forever in said Hell.

If hell were just a 'neutral' topic like, say, 'is the .270 gay?', then it would be a harmless, and lighthearted, discussion. But, alas, telling me or any one else that it's Yahweh or the Highway (to hell) begs for some response.

As has been said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and one constant point of NDE is that there is NO constants. So several anecdotes that happen to support your presuppositions do not truth make.

At least Antlers tries to make serious arguments for his position and Rich, kooky as he can be (still love ya buddy!) is consistent in his biblical literalism. (Btw, speaking of archaeology Rich, research Jericho--dating proved that it would've been a pile of rubble by the time Josh got there, according to the bible timeline).

All that to say that Sniper, myself and anyone who wishes to, can and will continue to hold your religious feet to the skeptical fire. After all, you are commanded to be 'ready to give an answer' ...


Next up...perhaps a new thread on people I call 'practical atheists'. Folks who are basically moral, honest people but who really don't behave like Jesus or follow his commands.

antelope_sniper,



Talk about "faith despite evidence to the contrary," you could be the poster child. You constantly reject the tenants of science to hold to your unscientific views. Nothing could represent blind faith more than you.

Good for you champ.