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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,113 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,113 Likes: 1 |
What? Is this thing still going?  It looks like it, but I don't see why. C'mon, it isn't important like when I have to school some Philistine about putting ice in sipping whisk(e)y.  I have been known to be Philistine-like on occasion. I could use two fingers of some good right now.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,849 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,849 Likes: 3 |
What? Is this thing still going? It looks like it, but I don't see why. C'mon, it isn't important like when I have to school some Philistine about putting ice in sipping whisk(e)y. I have been known to be Philistine-like on occasion. I could use two fingers of some good right now. Indulge me a little bit. Next time you pour two fingers, instead of adding ice just add a small drop of still spring water, cool but not cold. It'll round off the edge and cut the "heat" but it won't have the deleterious effect of chilling the spirit. The aromatics won't be suppressed, nor your palate anesthetized by the cold. Your drink will taste the same throughout as well, not watery at the end.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
One or two years ago, it doesn't matter. The fact is you took a shot that you were not skilled enough to make, yet you mention the "pathetic" shooting you have seen at the range. You are one not those guys at the range that you have observed. That the irony is lost on you is telling. Both actually. Read through that thread about last years lost elk and it references the elk he lost the previous year. The previous elk I ‘lost’ went down in some tall sage. When I approached it got up and went over a nearby fence onto private land. After going for a ways across open grassland it turned back and retraced its steps toward the sage on public land. The range was under 100 yards when it stopped at the fence and was shot by another hunter on the private land. There is no doubt in my mind that the elk wasn’t going far and at worst I would have recovered it provided I could get permission to follow it onto the private land. Had the other hunter not fired I was ready to do so as soon as it jumped the fence back onto public land. The other hunter made the question of recovery moot. If you want to consider that one ‘lost’, then yes, I have lost two. In the end the elk was recovered, however, something I never felt was in question. Here’s a photo of last year’s ‘lost’ elk. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/20151106_072850.jpg)
The entire matter would be long forgotten but for the fact that Coyote Hunter himself continues to bring it up. That, and as you noted, a proclivity for criticism, and dare I say boasting and unsolicited advice.
Read through that 2014 episode and there appear to be more serious issues than bullets and marksmanship. The whole story just doesn't add up.
It is clearly a ranch hunt. Somehow it is also a road hunt between 3 different game units. This part is never clearly explained. Look at the success rates on these ranches and most of them are astonishing. It is difficult to reconcile having that sort of access and then making the decision to fling a long shot. The desperate shot attempt doesn't jibe with someone bragging on their vast experience. It almost appears to be a quest for a stunt shot.
Wow, no need to get the facts straight when your goal is to besmirch someone's reputation with innuendo and misrepresentation or outright lies. I think you'll find the vast majority of my advice is in response to open requests rather than unsolicited. I don't know about you, but when I seek advice I also judge the advice and the person giving it - including their qualifications, their experience, success and motivation. Doesn't matter if it is about hunting, a medical or legal issue or anything else. If that information isn't on hand I have no problem asking for it. Providing that information up front isn't boasting if the intent is just to provide that background information. There was a radio host I used to listen to that once a month would talk about his professional experience. Why bother if everyone had already heard it? Because every day there were new listeners that hadn't. The situation is no different on this forum. Yes, it was a ranch hunt, something I have clearly stated in the past and have never made any attempt to portray as something else. It was an unguided Ranching For Wildlife hunt on Snake River ranch to be exact. RFW hunts for cow elk are open to any Colorado resident for the standard resident cow elk application fee. If people choose not to take advantage of such hunts that is their concern, not mine. Since my primary goal is to fill the freezer and although I generally get an additional OTC bull tag for public land, antlers are optional. Since 2006 I have hunted RFW whenever I can get an RFW cow tag, which has been every second year, and make no apology for doing so. A ‘road hunt’ and ‘3 different game units’? You didn’t get that from anything I wrote about the lost elk because those ideas are false, unless you consider hunting 2 miles from the truck a ‘road hunt’. As to the units, I hunted two units that year, not three – units #3 and Snake River ranch, both with cow tags good only for their respective areas. After 3 days of hunting Snake River my hunting companion went home, leaving me to hunt alone. By then my right hip was so bad that just getting from the cab of my truck to the fuel cap at the gas station was an adventure and getting far from the road was out of the question. Instead I switched to Unit 3 and spent a lot of time exploring the unit by road and sitting on public land high points in my truck hoping to see elk migrating through public land. I didn’t see any elk (and didn't really expect to as the migration hadn't started) but there was nothing illegal about it, nothing to be ashamed of and not much else I could do except go home. My hip continued to deteriorate rapidly and a few months later I had to get hip replacement surgery. ‘Fling a long shot’ in a ‘desperate attempt’? What have you been smoking? It was a 400 yard shot max, as lasered to the trees just behind the cow. Probably closer to 390 and I was shooting from a very steady sitting position using a tripod. This is a shot I’ve made many times on prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope and deer and elk using the same sitting position and tripod. The sitting position and tripod also get used at the range to shoot steel and clays at 500 and 600 yards, so it isn’t like I was inexperienced at that range. My son-in-law and I had plenty of time to discuss the possibility of getting closer and both of us agreed that any such attempt would likely fail. We had been watching the elk for a couple of hours before I took the shot, one that we both agreed was the best opportunity we would get and had a high probability of success. The public land cow I had taken in 2013 (the year before) was at 487 yards and the Snake River cow in 2011 was right at 400. This year's elk was at 411 on public land again. A ‘desperate attempt’ or a ‘stunt shot’? Far from it. I simply misjudged the wind. Like bwalker I guess you've never made a mistake, or won't admit it, so fee free to continue throwing stones.
The failure to make any attempt to contact the neighboring ranch appears to be illegal. At various times in that thread Coyote Hunter offers that he is not sure which ranch, that it is all about money and paying customers on those ranches, and that this particular ranch does not get along with the ranch where he is hunting. I personally don't buy that explanation because I own property that is elk habitat. If a dead elk turns up there I am going to have a discussion with the neighboring property owner about that elk whether I get along with him or not.
Perhaps saddest of all is that it appears that some younger people are apparently witness to this.
As far as we’re concerned there was nothing remotely illegal or unethical about what we did. It was getting late when we lost the blood trail and it was 2 miles back to the truck, a trek I wasn’t comfortable attempting in the dark with my bad hip. We made it to the truck at last light. When checking out of the ranch we inquired about the other adjoining ranches and were indeed told that they were not at all friendly or cooperative with Snake River - but that information played no part in our decision making as we were already off the mountain and it was well past dark. In any case, I was physically incapable of making another trip up the mountain that night. We returned the next morning and picked up where we had left off, but we found no more blood and no downed elk. By then the cow could easily have been on one of 3 adjoining ranches or it might have still been on Snake River Ranch. We feel we made the legally and ethically required ‘reasonable attempt to track and kill’ the elk but with the passing of time and no clear indication of where it went, contacting the other ranches and randomly searching them – assuming they would have even allowed it, which we had been told they would not – would have been a gratuitous and unproductive effort at best. Never mind that by then the condition of my hip made another (third) trip up the mountain impossible, regardless of which ranch we chose. As far as ‘younger people’, my son-in-law was the only one with me. He is in his early 30’s. Regardless, there were no actions taken on our part for which I am the least bit ashamed, whether it was hiking in 2 miles on a bad hip and finding elk, observing them for a long period of time while considering our options, taking a shot we both believed would be successful or our attempts to recover the elk afterwards. Nor am I in any way ashamed that my hip had me reduced to walking with a cane or that the best I could do was hunt Unit 3 from the truck. It beat going home. Keep putting that out there. I’m your huckleberry. So a guy claims 27+ years elk hunting experience. He gets onto a ranch with a 75% success rate, shoots at the first opportunity close to numerous other ranches even though he had lost an elk just the previous year by doing the same thing. !?? In the following days, by your account, you make no attempt to call any of the landowners and that you are listening to the radio and reading books instead. This is the kind of crap that makes me want to stop giving anyone hunting access to my property. Fortunately not everyone is like you. You say that contacting the landowners likely wouldn’t have mattered. You miss the point entirely. It is not all about you. Wouldn’t have mattered to whom? As a landowner myself, I find you attitude toward private land offensive and insulting. I can assure you that getting a phone call about a lost elk near my property is a whole lot different than me finding a dead one and then having to begin making phone calls myself about how it got there and whether or not someone was hunting my property. That has a whole lot to do with whether I grant anyone permission in the future. The rest of the story doesn’t pass the smell test. No one with that kind of experience does something this stupid. Anyone who hunts insists on it being more on their own terms with each passing year. If someone is not becoming more selective and discriminating over time then something just doesn’t add up. Any guy who gets the chance to hunt a ranch with a 75% success rate is going to be selective. More so if he is hunting it every 2 years. If that person is boasting about 3 decades of experience then even more cause for restraint. With a young person along you would expect the utmost effort toward doing everything right … evidently that’s not everybody. The possibility of an elk ending up of any of 4 ranches sounds like some pretty close fence lines. Someone who’d lost an elk over a fence the previous year would be conscious of that. The situation as it is described makes the elks escape to be the most likely outcome. A risky shot involves more than just whether it may (eventually) be lethal or not. It involves exercising a little common sense. Snake River Ranch has a 75% success rate on cows. Even higher on bulls. You have alternately claimed 27 and 33 years elk hunting experience. I’m trying to understand how someone claiming 3 decades experience takes this golden opportunity and somehow turns it into a train wreck. What then? Just leave and hunt elsewhere? As for the following details I couldn’t care less other than that it is too much to ask anyone to remain silent as if this is somehow credible. You claim there is no road hunt but when you say, “Instead I switched to Unit 3 and spent a lot of time exploring the unit by road and sitting on public land high points in my truck hoping to see elk migrating through public land.” That sounds like road hunting to me. Then you say you hunted 2 units but the landmarks you mention are spread across more than 3 hunting units - 4 actually. I couldn’t care less about that or any of the other details of this hunt but it is another example of why this entire story has more holes than a fishnet. Attempting to place any of the responsibility for the shot decision on the young man with you is despicable. Congratulations on the small bull, but please explain what is the significance of a hero photo with the little bull in the conversation about multiple lost elk? You mention your reputation and I understand your concern under the circumstances. A good start for you would be to try not to defend an account that is preposterous. There simply comes a point where it becomes too deep and expecting anyone to keep from calling BS is too much to ask.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
One or two years ago, it doesn't matter. The fact is you took a shot that you were not skilled enough to make, yet you mention the "pathetic" shooting you have seen at the range. You are one not those guys at the range that you have observed. That the irony is lost on you is telling. Both actually. Read through that thread about last years lost elk and it references the elk he lost the previous year. The previous elk I ‘lost’ went down in some tall sage. When I approached it got up and went over a nearby fence onto private land. After going for a ways across open grassland it turned back and retraced its steps toward the sage on public land. The range was under 100 yards when it stopped at the fence and was shot by another hunter on the private land. There is no doubt in my mind that the elk wasn’t going far and at worst I would have recovered it provided I could get permission to follow it onto the private land. Had the other hunter not fired I was ready to do so as soon as it jumped the fence back onto public land. The other hunter made the question of recovery moot. If you want to consider that one ‘lost’, then yes, I have lost two. In the end the elk was recovered, however, something I never felt was in question. Here’s a photo of last year’s ‘lost’ elk.
The entire matter would be long forgotten but for the fact that Coyote Hunter himself continues to bring it up. That, and as you noted, a proclivity for criticism, and dare I say boasting and unsolicited advice.
Read through that 2014 episode and there appear to be more serious issues than bullets and marksmanship. The whole story just doesn't add up.
It is clearly a ranch hunt. Somehow it is also a road hunt between 3 different game units. This part is never clearly explained. Look at the success rates on these ranches and most of them are astonishing. It is difficult to reconcile having that sort of access and then making the decision to fling a long shot. The desperate shot attempt doesn't jibe with someone bragging on their vast experience. It almost appears to be a quest for a stunt shot.
Wow, no need to get the facts straight when your goal is to besmirch someone's reputation with innuendo and misrepresentation or outright lies. I think you'll find the vast majority of my advice is in response to open requests rather than unsolicited. I don't know about you, but when I seek advice I also judge the advice and the person giving it - including their qualifications, their experience, success and motivation. Doesn't matter if it is about hunting, a medical or legal issue or anything else. If that information isn't on hand I have no problem asking for it. Providing that information up front isn't boasting if the intent is just to provide that background information. There was a radio host I used to listen to that once a month would talk about his professional experience. Why bother if everyone had already heard it? Because every day there were new listeners that hadn't. The situation is no different on this forum. Yes, it was a ranch hunt, something I have clearly stated in the past and have never made any attempt to portray as something else. It was an unguided Ranching For Wildlife hunt on Snake River ranch to be exact. RFW hunts for cow elk are open to any Colorado resident for the standard resident cow elk application fee. If people choose not to take advantage of such hunts that is their concern, not mine. Since my primary goal is to fill the freezer and although I generally get an additional OTC bull tag for public land, antlers are optional. Since 2006 I have hunted RFW whenever I can get an RFW cow tag, which has been every second year, and make no apology for doing so. A ‘road hunt’ and ‘3 different game units’? You didn’t get that from anything I wrote about the lost elk because those ideas are false, unless you consider hunting 2 miles from the truck a ‘road hunt’. As to the units, I hunted two units that year, not three – units #3 and Snake River ranch, both with cow tags good only for their respective areas. After 3 days of hunting Snake River my hunting companion went home, leaving me to hunt alone. By then my right hip was so bad that just getting from the cab of my truck to the fuel cap at the gas station was an adventure and getting far from the road was out of the question. Instead I switched to Unit 3 and spent a lot of time exploring the unit by road and sitting on public land high points in my truck hoping to see elk migrating through public land. I didn’t see any elk (and didn't really expect to as the migration hadn't started) but there was nothing illegal about it, nothing to be ashamed of and not much else I could do except go home. My hip continued to deteriorate rapidly and a few months later I had to get hip replacement surgery. ‘Fling a long shot’ in a ‘desperate attempt’? What have you been smoking? It was a 400 yard shot max, as lasered to the trees just behind the cow. Probably closer to 390 and I was shooting from a very steady sitting position using a tripod. This is a shot I’ve made many times on prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope and deer and elk using the same sitting position and tripod. The sitting position and tripod also get used at the range to shoot steel and clays at 500 and 600 yards, so it isn’t like I was inexperienced at that range. My son-in-law and I had plenty of time to discuss the possibility of getting closer and both of us agreed that any such attempt would likely fail. We had been watching the elk for a couple of hours before I took the shot, one that we both agreed was the best opportunity we would get and had a high probability of success. The public land cow I had taken in 2013 (the year before) was at 487 yards and the Snake River cow in 2011 was right at 400. This year's elk was at 411 on public land again. A ‘desperate attempt’ or a ‘stunt shot’? Far from it. I simply misjudged the wind. Like bwalker I guess you've never made a mistake, or won't admit it, so fee free to continue throwing stones.
The failure to make any attempt to contact the neighboring ranch appears to be illegal. At various times in that thread Coyote Hunter offers that he is not sure which ranch, that it is all about money and paying customers on those ranches, and that this particular ranch does not get along with the ranch where he is hunting. I personally don't buy that explanation because I own property that is elk habitat. If a dead elk turns up there I am going to have a discussion with the neighboring property owner about that elk whether I get along with him or not.
Perhaps saddest of all is that it appears that some younger people are apparently witness to this.
As far as we’re concerned there was nothing remotely illegal or unethical about what we did. It was getting late when we lost the blood trail and it was 2 miles back to the truck, a trek I wasn’t comfortable attempting in the dark with my bad hip. We made it to the truck at last light. When checking out of the ranch we inquired about the other adjoining ranches and were indeed told that they were not at all friendly or cooperative with Snake River - but that information played no part in our decision making as we were already off the mountain and it was well past dark. In any case, I was physically incapable of making another trip up the mountain that night. We returned the next morning and picked up where we had left off, but we found no more blood and no downed elk. By then the cow could easily have been on one of 3 adjoining ranches or it might have still been on Snake River Ranch. We feel we made the legally and ethically required ‘reasonable attempt to track and kill’ the elk but with the passing of time and no clear indication of where it went, contacting the other ranches and randomly searching them – assuming they would have even allowed it, which we had been told they would not – would have been a gratuitous and unproductive effort at best. Never mind that by then the condition of my hip made another (third) trip up the mountain impossible, regardless of which ranch we chose. As far as ‘younger people’, my son-in-law was the only one with me. He is in his early 30’s. Regardless, there were no actions taken on our part for which I am the least bit ashamed, whether it was hiking in 2 miles on a bad hip and finding elk, observing them for a long period of time while considering our options, taking a shot we both believed would be successful or our attempts to recover the elk afterwards. Nor am I in any way ashamed that my hip had me reduced to walking with a cane or that the best I could do was hunt Unit 3 from the truck. It beat going home. Keep putting that out there. I’m your huckleberry. So a guy claims 27+ years elk hunting experience. He gets onto a ranch with a 75% success rate, shoots at the first opportunity close to numerous other ranches even though he had lost an elk just the previous year by doing the same thing. !?? In the following days, by your account, you make no attempt to call any of the landowners and that you are listening to the radio and reading books instead. This is the kind of crap that makes me want to stop giving anyone hunting access to my property. Fortunately not everyone is like you. You say that contacting the landowners likely wouldn’t have mattered. You miss the point entirely. It is not all about you. Wouldn’t have mattered to whom? As a landowner myself, I find you attitude toward private land offensive and insulting. I can assure you that getting a phone call about a lost elk near my property is a whole lot different than me finding a dead one and then having to begin making phone calls myself about how it got there and whether or not someone was hunting my property. That has a whole lot to do with whether I grant anyone permission in the future. The rest of the story doesn’t pass the smell test. No one with that kind of experience does something this stupid. Anyone who hunts insists on it being more on their own terms with each passing year. If someone is not becoming more selective and discriminating over time then something just doesn’t add up. Any guy who gets the chance to hunt a ranch with a 75% success rate is going to be selective. More so if he is hunting it every 2 years. If that person is boasting about 3 decades of experience then even more cause for restraint. With a young person along you would expect the utmost effort toward doing everything right … evidently that’s not everybody. The possibility of an elk ending up of any of 4 ranches sounds like some pretty close fence lines. Someone who’d lost an elk over a fence the previous year would be conscious of that. The situation as it is described makes the elks escape to be the most likely outcome. A risky shot involves more than just whether it may (eventually) be lethal or not. It involves exercising a little common sense. Snake River Ranch has a 75% success rate on cows. Even higher on bulls. You have alternately claimed 27 and 33 years elk hunting experience. I’m trying to understand how someone claiming 3 decades experience takes this golden opportunity and somehow turns it into a train wreck. What then? Just leave and hunt elsewhere? As for the following details I couldn’t care less other than that it is too much to ask anyone to remain silent as if this is somehow credible. You claim there is no road hunt but when you say, “Instead I switched to Unit 3 and spent a lot of time exploring the unit by road and sitting on public land high points in my truck hoping to see elk migrating through public land.” That sounds like road hunting to me. Then you say you hunted 2 units but the landmarks you mention are spread across more than 3 hunting units - 4 actually. I couldn’t care less about that or any of the other details of this hunt but it is another example of why this entire story has more holes than a fishnet. Attempting to place any of the responsibility for the shot decision on the young man with you is despicable. Congratulations on the small bull, but please explain what is the significance of a hero photo with the little bull in the conversation about multiple lost elk? You mention your reputation and I understand your concern under the circumstances. A good start for you would be to try not to defend an account that is preposterous. There simply comes a point where it becomes too deep and expecting anyone to keep from calling BS is too much to ask. Ouch!
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,281
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,281 |
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736 |
Jeez, 43 pages? I bet 1% of the elk hunters use a 300 Wthby.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,134 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,134 Likes: 9 |
Soon there'll be another 43 pages from Coyote Hunter alone, responding at length to everybody who expressed their doubts.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
So,just guessing here,but the .300 Wby would be ok for elk.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,119
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,119 |
So,just guessing here,but the .300 Wby would be ok for elk. And I only have a lowly 300 Win Mag... But I do have a 270 Weatherby, does that count?
Heaven has a wall, a gate and strict immigration policy.
Hell has open borders.
Let that sink in.....
I Live for Opening Day!
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
Yup,have a .270 Wby also.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,078 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,078 Likes: 5 |
So,just guessing here,but the .300 Wby would be ok for elk. Marginal at best...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,926 |
So,just guessing here,but the .300 Wby would be ok for elk. Only if you don't have a 243.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
Have a .243 also. BSA,that's what I figured.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,078 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,078 Likes: 5 |
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Soon there'll be another 43 pages from Coyote Hunter alone, responding at length to everybody who expressed their doubts. You can take that to the bank.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Keep putting that out there. I’m your huckleberry.
So a guy claims 27+ years elk hunting experience. He gets onto a ranch with a 75% success rate, shoots at the first opportunity close to numerous other ranches even though he had lost an elk just the previous year by doing the same thing. !??
If you want to paint me as a douchebag, you might want to improve your credibility by getting your facts right so you don't look stupid. First, I’ve been hunting Colorado elk for 34 years, not 27 and have never claimed 27 except possibly back in late 2008 and before the hunt in 2009 when it was true. This fall will make it 35. Nor was the elk I shot and later lost on Snake River ranch close to a fence or the other ranches - unless you consider half a mile “close”. We followed the blood trail over one ridge, across a valley and over another much higher ridge before we lost it. At that point it was still 100 yards from the fence marking the property boundary. Half a mile as the crow flies, per Google Earth. The other property, where the elk I shot was harvested by another hunter, yes, it went over a fence. That area of public land is only half a mile wide so the furthest an elk can get from a fence is 440 yards. As it stands I've put 3 elk in the freezer off that strip of land, including the one last year, and plan to return there this fall.
In the following days, by your account, you make no attempt to call any of the landowners and that you are listening to the radio and reading books instead.
This is the kind of crap that makes me want to stop giving anyone hunting access to my property. Fortunately not everyone is like you.
You say that contacting the landowners likely wouldn’t have mattered. You miss the point entirely. It is not all about you. Wouldn’t have mattered to whom? As a landowner myself, I find you attitude toward private land offensive and insulting. I can assure you that getting a phone call about a lost elk near my property is a whole lot different than me finding a dead one and then having to begin making phone calls myself about how it got there and whether or not someone was hunting my property. That has a whole lot to do with whether I grant anyone permission in the future.
Unless you are in charge of the adjoining ranches – and to my knowledge you are not - how you would handle a call is completely irrelevant. Moreover, you clearly have no idea about the level of the antipathy the adjoining ranch owners feel towards Snake River. You are the one missing the point. Even if I had contacted all three other ranches and gained access, which the Snake River people told us was unlikely based on past experience, we had no idea on which – if any – of the three adjoining ranches the wounded elk might be found or if it was still on Snake River land. We did attempt, unsuccessfully, to find the elk the next day, starting at the last point where we had found and marked blood. By the end of that second day my hip was so bad I was physically incapable of going up the mountain again, making any additional search impossible. In any event and with no further blood trail to follow, the idea that we should have contacted all three ranches and randomly searched them is ludicrous on its face.
The rest of the story doesn’t pass the smell test. No one with that kind of experience does something this stupid. Anyone who hunts insists on it being more on their own terms with each passing year. If someone is not becoming more selective and discriminating over time then something just doesn’t add up. Any guy who gets the chance to hunt a ranch with a 75% success rate is going to be selective. More so if he is hunting it every 2 years. If that person is boasting about 3 decades of experience then even more cause for restraint. With a young person along you would expect the utmost effort toward doing everything right … evidently that’s not everybody.
As far as I’m concerned there wasn’t anything “stupid” about it. I was dealing with a very painful physical handicap and knew that, in spite of the season length, I was only good for 2-3 days of walking, if that. We had been watching the elk for over 2 hours waiting for a clear shot. When it came it was at a mature and healthy looking cow at just under 400 yards, a range at which I am pretty comfortable and well short of the 600 yards that I practice at. Further, I was shooting from a comfortable and stable sitting position using a tripod. In my judgment and that of my “young” 32-year-old son-in-law, the only other person there, it was an excellent setup with a high probability of success and the best we were going to get. Maybe that isn’t “discriminating” enough for you, but it was for us. You, on the other hand, were not there and your assessment of the situation reflects that. You are like a blind art critic passing judgment on a painting he can touch but not see - and one that is willfully blind at that.
The possibility of an elk ending up of any of 4 ranches sounds like some pretty close fence lines. Someone who’d lost an elk over a fence the previous year would be conscious of that. The situation as it is described makes the elks escape to be the most likely outcome. A risky shot involves more than just whether it may (eventually) be lethal or not. It involves exercising a little common sense.
There was Snake River, two ranches adjoining it on the west and one on the north, hardly an unusual situation. After following the blood trail over 700 yards as the crow flies, the last drop of blood we could find was still about 100 yards from the west fence. The cow could have gone to one of two different ranches, one immediately by getting over the fence, the other by going about 600 yards or it could have followed the fence line about 1000 yards downhill to the ranch on the north. It could also have stayed on Snake River but our search for it there the following day was unsuccessful. There is always the possibility that a shot will go wrong and an animal may escape as a result. Considering the elk was half a mile from the fence when I took the shot, the primary risk was one of placement. I misjudged the wind, a mistake anyone can make.
Snake River Ranch has a 75% success rate on cows. Even higher on bulls. You have alternately claimed 27 and 33 years elk hunting experience. I’m trying to understand how someone claiming 3 decades experience takes this golden opportunity and somehow turns it into a train wreck. What then? Just leave and hunt elsewhere?
Is the sky blue where you live? Do the men in white coats treat you nicely? I don’t think you are trying or even want to understand anything. You can't hunt bulls with a Ranching For Wildlife license, which is what I had and why I was hunting a cow. Further, I’ve never “alternately claimed 27 and 33 years elk hunting experience”. If you think you can point to where I have, please waste your time trying. I’ve always stated I started in 1982 and have missed maybe one year since. My recent reference to 27 and 33 was in response to a post from bwalker who stated he had been hunting 27 years and hadn't lost an animal. My response was that at 27 I hadn't lost one either and that it took 33 years before I did.
As for the following details I couldn’t care less other than that it is too much to ask anyone to remain silent as if this is somehow credible.
You claim there is no road hunt but when you say, “Instead I switched to Unit 3 and spent a lot of time exploring the unit by road and sitting on public land high points in my truck hoping to see elk migrating through public land.” That sounds like road hunting to me. Then you say you hunted 2 units but the landmarks you mention are spread across more than 3 hunting units - 4 actually. I couldn’t care less about that or any of the other details of this hunt but it is another example of why this entire story has more holes than a fishnet.
What a bunch of bullschitt. To get to my hunting elk in 3 or 4 units you have to include multiple years, which tells me you need to take your anti-confusion pills. In 2014, the year I lost my elk on Snake River, I hunted elk on Snake River and in Unit 3 as my cow tags were only good in those areas, one tag for each area. That is 2 units, not the 3 or 4 you claim. In 2013 I hunted public land with both a cow and a bull tag and could hunt pretty much any public land I chose. My cow tag was only good in units 12, 23 and 24. As it turned out I hunted elk in units 12 and 211 that year. Regarding 2014 You stated " It is clearly a ranch hunt. Somehow it is also a road hunt between 3 different game units. This part is never clearly explained." As already pointed out, I only hunted elk on Snake River and Unit 3 that year - not 3 units. On Snake River we were hunting 2 miles from the truck - hardly what I would call a "road hunt". It was " never clearly explained" because the scenario you describe exists only in your mind. In 2014, the year in question, I did switch to unit 3 and did a lot of driving to explore the unit. Further, I spent a lot of time sitting in the truck on high points on public land, simply because walking was too painful - something I've never tried to hide and something that had absolutely nothing to do with losing the cow days earlier. I saw exactly as many elk as I expected while sitting on those points, which is to say 'none', but had a great time nevertheless. Perhaps you have never had to deal with serious physical handicaps and I hope you never do. I have and made the best of it - for which I offer no apologies. Again, I don’t think you want to understand anything and you certainly have a weak grasp on the facts. Put the bottle down.
Attempting to place any of the responsibility for the shot decision on the young man with you is despicable.
[quote]
I wasn’t attempting to place any blame on my son-in-law, just pointing out that the only other person there concurred with my assessment of the situation. You were not there and have shown repeatedly that you are confused about the facts, yet seem to think you are more qualified than those that were to judge the situation. I think not.
[quote]
Congratulations on the small bull, but please explain what is the significance of a hero photo with the little bull in the conversation about multiple lost elk?
You mention your reputation and I understand your concern under the circumstances. A good start for you would be to try not to defend an account that is preposterous. There simply comes a point where it becomes too deep and expecting anyone to keep from calling BS is too much to ask.
You said I lost my elk in 2015, just one more case where your confusion is rampant and your ‘facts’ are completely wrong. The picture of my 2015 bull shows otherwise. Yes, it is a small, public land, raghorn 6x5 bull. So? I’m a meat hunter and that bull filled my freezer nicely - even after I gave a considerable amount to my long time hunting buddy and Daughter #2. The meat has been great and I make no apology for taking it. By the way, Dave, my hunting buddy of 17 years, took a 400-yard-ish shot at the bull first. This was on the last day we had to hunt and his last elk hunt period due to diabetes-related problems. We didn't know if he had hit it or not, but Dave is generally a very good marksman and I thought a miss unlikely. He decided he couldn't do it though so I shot the bull moments later at 411 lasered yards. It went 4 steps and down. When we dressed it out there was only one bullet hole, indicating a clean miss by Dave. His family received a good portion of the processed meat and they also agree it tastes great. Your mental confusion, lack of reading comprehension and/or propensity to intentionally misrepresent the facts – or outright lie, a distinction without a difference – never ceases to amaze me. A good start for you would be to get out of your fantasy world and stop spewing your sanctimonious crap.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
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Soon there'll be another 43 pages from Coyote Hunter alone, responding at length to everybody who expressed their doubts. This from the man who accused me of changing a post after he had responded to it. The only problem was that, as the post and edit times clearly showed, Mule Deer's claim was an outright lie.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Rick put a daily post limit on Big Stick. I wonder if he could put a word limit on Coyote Hunter?
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
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Soon there'll be another 43 pages from Coyote Hunter alone, responding at length to everybody who expressed their doubts. This from the man who accused me of changing a post after he had responded to it. The only problem was that, as the post and edit times clearly showed, Mule Deer's claim was an outright lie. Mule Deer is one of, if not the most respected members on this forum. We are very lucky to have him here. We have lost some very good members here because of people getting pretty brave, (cowardly may be a more accurate term), from behind a keyboard. Dober comes to mind... I generally avoid these kind of posts that have become all too common on this forum. However in this instance, IMO you owe Mule Deer an apology for such a brash statement. I read this forum for many years before becoming a member and cannot ever recall his being anything other than a gentleman on these pages.
Last edited by TwoTrax; 05/21/16.
Heaven has a wall, a gate and strict immigration policy.
Hell has open borders.
Let that sink in.....
I Live for Opening Day!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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