Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Sierra... Why no premium bonded bullets?

Am I uninformed or behind the times? Does Sierra have them?

I was reading on some other forum that Sierra prefers to focus on accuracy and that manufacturing premium bonded bullets is not conducive to super accuracy.

I have not got a clue...

Whats the truth?

Not a gun writer but thye sell everything they produce and the premium bullet market is saturated.

You want the truth?

See rule #1

"Questions From You
When is Sierra going to make a premium bullet?
All Sierra bullets are premium bullets or they wouldn't shoot as well as they do. But the answer to your question is no, we don't intend to offer an enhanced construction bullet. The key to proper bullet performance for conventionally constructed bullets is to select the proper bullet in the first place. It makes absolutely no sense to use a rifle capable of clean kills at 600 yards to harvest animals at 75 to 150 yards. Furthermore to expect a bullet to perform well at 100 yards and the accompanying high impact velocity then ask that same bullet to exactly duplicate that performance at 600 yards and the drastically reduced impact velocities is asking way too much. There is a point there where the shooter has to stop and think about what he is trying to accomplish. And as is so often the case, it is far too easy to over-specialize and become woefully ineffective in one or the other phase of performance criteria." Rich

http://www.sierrabullets.com/resources/x-ring-newsletter/index.cfm/xid/28/That-First-Gun/

To paraphrase rule 1. It states that a player shall play the ball from the teeing grounds to the hole through a stroke or series of strokes with a club.
I don't get the connection to premium bullets.

B -

according to some, ' any ole bullet ' in the vitals will kill. No need for premium.

Jerry

Why offer the bullets that will be shot at African/exotic big game when you can own the market of bullets used to work up all those loads? Lots more volume because it takes a bunch of shooting to get accurate loads narrowed down. (And you can use Sierras to hunt most American game,)

This is a good point. Sierra bullets are also priced very well, which helps, no doubt.

If you check the descriptions of the various bullets on the Sierra website, you'll find recommendations as to the suitability of each bullet for specific puposes. Many of the Pro Hunter slugs feature heavy and/or tapered jackets that help them hold together, but limit their usefulness as game bullets in small-capacity cartridges. I've used the 165gr .308 HP on several deer with excellent results and plan to try the 100gr 6mm PH on deer next season. I sectioned one of 6mms and found, as claimed, a jacket that gets quite thick towards the base. Reviews on this bullet, posted on the Midway site, indicate that it penetrates very well.

I've killed a few deer with NPs and like them very much (especially when I find them as cheap blems and overruns), but ordinary bullets work just fine too as long as you don't ask them to do stuff they're not designed for.

A PH friend of mine owns a big sportings goods store in Kimberley, South Africa. They sell a bunch of different kinds of factory ammo, but also a lot of handloading components, though American-made bullets cost about twice as much as they do here, regardless of brand. (Or at least that was true the last time I was in the store.)

A few of the bullets are "premiums" made over there, but the two most popular brands are Nosler Partitions and Sierra GameKings/ProHunters. The Sierras are most popular in heavier weights for the caliber, and often used by meat hunters who shoot game for sale at local markets, because they allow more profit. I got to know several of those guys while there for a month one year, and they have no problems taking the bigger, tougher plains game species with Sierras--though of course they're very good shots and don't take the tougher-angle shots American hunters over for a week or two often choose to.

" but ordinary bullets work just fine too as long as you don't ask them to do stuff they're not designed for."


That, in a nutshell, says it all.

And I am a huge Barnes fan, having used Barnes exclusively for big game, and in my 22 Hornet on coyotes, since 1992.

Do they have to pay $1600 trophy fees if one gets away...

I find that to be a remarkably short sided business approach. I do find Sierra Matchkings fly well. However, I also found that 215 Gamekings don't open (at all) at reasonable speeds and Sierras engineering was rather lacking in that example.

No, they wouldn't, because normally half of a trophy fee goes to the landowner, and half to the safari company. And even then animals considered real trophies aren't taken on meat culls.

But some of the animals are indeed mature males (or in the instance of gemsbok, females) who don't qualify as trophies because of a missing or deformed horn. And the landowner might charge some sort of fee for animals wounded and lost, because the meat is part of his profit too. And a wounded and lost 500+ pound animal represents a big chunk of change to a local biltong hunter or professional culler.

So no, they're not using Sierras because they hope they'll work.

In the interests of helping this thread wander a bit...

I've found at times that the concept of using premiums (Partitions for example) to compensate for less than ideal shot angles can be a wobbly one.

Quite often taking a shot at a big pig, with a 3/4 quartering away shot or similar with a NPT or Accubond, I've regretted it. Usually I've thought later I'd have been just as well off with a NBT or Interlock, and far better off waiting for a side or front-on shot.


(Not a GW; just a hick from the sticks.)

I'm a hick from the states..... bobnob not directed at you. Just using the opportunity to rant...

There has to be at least a psychological difference between an African or Australian cull hunt where game is so abundant that it needs to be "culled" in the first place...and a hunt where a selective hunter is restricted by law or conscious or pocket book to take a single representative specimen he may have hunted a while for, and also waited several years for the opportunity...possibly in a lifetime he may get to do it once.

This is hard for some folks from Cull Country to grasp when it comes to shot selection. Personally I never considered premium bullets to be instruments utilized in case something went "wrong",since bad shot are simply that....bad shots regardless of bullets .

And I never understood the attitude some have that reliable expansion and some extra penetration ( the REAL advantages of premium bullets regardless how it's accomplished) is some how a "bad" thing and anyone using them is a reckless nut. This is twisted logic.

So, I never regarded a mildly angling shot (coming or going) as the least bit risky with a bullet suited to the task.

I guess some Sierra's are capable of this, while some are not and therein lies the difficulty in choosing...which is why after using some and watching others perform, I shoot the hell out of them on paper and varmints but leave them home on BG hunts.That they do not make a premium is of no concern to me. I like them anyway for certain things.

I will leave the experiments and frugality to the cull hunters. We aren't playing the same game...at all.

Bob, in the last few/many years I've become what I consider much less of a culler and more of a "hunter". The joy of shooting 40 pigs under a spotlight over a crop in a couple of hours wore off many many years ago.

And with life getting busier, my opportunities are becoming a little more limited of late...

I've no doubt there's a different mentality Bob, as I feel I've trodden both paths. The pursuit and dispatching of a desirable animal with a single, well placed shot is a lot more satisfying.

But I explain this to some of my mates and they look at me like I have two heads...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/4237948/Re_sierra_gameking_vs_prohunte

So the Pro Hunters with a lesser B/C are a tad tougher than the Game-Kings and prone to a tad better accuracy out to 300 yards etc.????

I don't.

Sierra's reputation was built upon accurate bullets. Bonded bullets are inherently less accurate than a traditional cup and core design.

Sierra is just choosing to play to their strengths as opposed to trying to be all things to all people.

Sierra doesn't produce anything that can touch the Partition in it's niche, and Nosler still can't touch the SMK.

P,

What cartridge, impact velocity and game etc have you been shooting when using the 215 SGKs that weren't opening?

I'm assuming you're talking about the .338 cal version?

Could be the 215 was designed for 338 Win Mag speeds since that's clearly a far more popular 338 than the Federal. I don't see that as a failure of Sierra engineering. Increased speed and rpm's still count with some designs.

As a moose hunter, I shoot my .375 about 25 times a year with NP,s As a competitive XC shooter, I shoot 3-4 thousand Sierra's a season. If you were a Bean counter for a bullet company; what would you have your production lines making?
Follow the money.

There you go! They deliver Sierra Match bullets to my club on pallets.

Why I laugh at these threads about Sierra missing the market.....pretty funny.

I emailed Sierra and that is exactly what they said, that it was a stout bullet designed for the 338 Win Mag. But I was shooting out of a 338-06, 2600-2700 impact velocity, so that's not that far down range with the WM. And I tried more than one.

I do like other Sierras, and if they made a .338 Gameking or Pro Hunter in the 180-200 range I'd definitely give it a good tryout.

Edit: My comment about their business plan was meant to get at the idea that it seemingly lacks innovation. That they choose not to innovate. Maybe they won't make a bonded bullet, but they ought to look for ways to build a better mouse trap. Looking at the target bullets, I can't imagine they are growing their share of the market with Lapua, Berger, and now Hornady ELD-Ms on the market. I used to use the 175 SMK as the baseline for my 308 loading, and will still use Federal GMM to test, but I now have more confidence in starting with a 155 Scenar for handloads. At the end of the day they make good bullets, just lack any wow factor, or filling a niche, right now giving me a reason to try them over others.

I don't really think their business plan is bad at all. 95% of the bullets sold are to target shooters, varmint hunters and deer hunters where c&c bullets have performed well for decades. So I think they are pretty smart to simply let Hornady systematically discontinue their excellent line of C&C interloocks and replace them with so called premium bullets at premium prices and wait for the interlock market share to migrate to gamekings.

There are a lot of valid points made above, but I look at things a little differently. With all the hoopla about lead now days, and states starting to outlaw it. I believe Sierra would be far better off if they started offering some pure copper bullets or premiums. They would be caught with their pants down if lead was totally band by the EPA or other government action.

I like so many others shoot Sierra for most hunting situations and would sure hate to loose that availability.

The government might buy a couple Sierra bullets..

prm: Lots of matches are won every year with Sierra bullets. The wow factor has a funny habit of not lasting as long a lot of times.

Think about it....we see posts here every day about guys fiddling with this or that bullet,fiddling with seating depths, etc etc. trying to get bullets to shoot.

You rarely if ever see that stuff or hear many complaints about Sierras. If I want to know if a rifle shoots well, they are among the very first thing loaded.

If a rifle will not shoot Sierras,there is something wrong with the rifle.

Thats especially true if you are not using Barnes bullets!

I"ve seen so much variation in Sierra expansion its not even funny. I almost won't use them on game at all anymore.

OR the scope

OR the triggerer


Jerry

Back in the 70's and 80's when I campaigned the High Power Silhouette circuits. The comment most commonly repeated was, If it wont shoot Sierras it wont shoot anything else either.

The use of Sierras for hunting is full of contradictions.

I have killed a huge pile of big game over the past 40+ years with Sierras, mostly GameKings, including many African animalks, and have yet to encounter a major problem. In fact, 130 GK's are what I started hunting with in my first .270 Winchester many years ago. According to many that's a combination doomed to failure, because they'll come apart.

I have seen quite a few bullets separate jacket and core over the decades, but in all but two instances it apparently occurred only AFTER the bullet penetrated the animal, because the jacket and core were found lying together under the hide on the far side. And those bullets included a bunch that WEREN'T Sierras, including just about every cup and core made in America, including one or two Hornady Interlocks.

The only two bullets I've seen leave the jacket somewhere behind the core were a 130-grain .270 GameKing and a 105-grain Speer Hot-Core. Both were shot into eating-size buck deer, and in both instances the jacket stopped right under the hide on the ribs, while the core kept on going and killed the deer.

In the past decade the Sierra I've used most is the 7mm 160-grain GameKing from the 7x57, handloaded to around 2650-2700 fps. Have used it not only on deer-sized game in North America (and never recovered one), but on a bunch of Africa plains game of about the same size. The only one recovered over there was a finisher from a warthog that was lying unconscious and obviously expiring, but still breathing. The finisher was put into the chest from about three feet, and jacket and core were found lying together under the hide on the far side.

A long-time outfitter I know in eastern Montana personally prefers the same bullet in his 7mm Remington Magnum, not only for his own pronghorn and deer hunting but for finishing off deer his clients have shot with premium bullets. Some of those aren't shot too well, but some are shot OK and go a long ways because, he says, too many of his clients use premium bullets that don't do enough interior damage. He's a handloader who's very well acquainted with big game bullets and cartridges, and I always find his comments based on plenty of observation and experience. Craig Boddington is also fond of the same combination.

Another point is that Sierra hunting bullets, like all hunting bullets, differ enough in construction in various weights and calibers that it's not always relevant to make generalizations about performance from 6mm's to far larger calibers. But that's exactly what many (if not most) hunters tend to do, if they've gotten beyond the stage of believing the cartridge is the main factor in "killing power."

Speaking of "cup & core together"



65gr Gameking, launched from a AR-15 with 1 in 7 barrel. Broadside shot, broke onside humerus, stopped in offside hide. Spike buck went 30 yards & dropped.

I would not shoot a bigger animal with it, but it worked.

Savage 99, don't look at this photo...

Completely agree. I too think the .308 175 SMK is a go-to bullet and what Sierra makes, they typically make well (except for the 215 GK!). But in the same rifles, I have to fiddle with them no differently that with other bullets. However, for a business to say things such as "no, we don't intend to offer an enhanced construction bullet" or "It makes absolutely no sense to use a rifle capable of clean kills at 600 yards to harvest animals at 75 to 150 yards" or "to expect a bullet to perform well at 100 yards and the accompanying high impact velocity then ask that same bullet to exactly duplicate that performance at 600 yards and the drastically reduced impact velocities is asking way too much" strikes me as a very odd. So I take it they are not even trying to create new solutions to hunting near and far, they are not going to ever offer a mono solution to lead restrictions, they are not going to offer confidence inspiring solutions to hunting tougher game or using faster cartridges at shorter ranges (sometimes elk show up closer than you planned)? I'd rather a company work to find better alternatives. Sure Sierra can sell bullets, lots of them, to the govt, and there will be a market for target shooting with their SMKs. But my guess is others are eating into the target shooting market. For example, I recently picked up a 6.5 Creedmoor and when I got to researching bullets, hunting and target, Sierra didn't have what I felt was a better solution for either, and I seriously considered them. They make good target bullets no doubt (142 SMK), but there are now others. Turns out Hornady ELD-Ms shoot incredibly well. All I'm saying is that good companies are always trying to build a better mousetrap, something you never considered before, and their statement says they are not interested in evolving. Someday a company will develop new construction techniques or use new materials that improve consistency, lower costs, or improve performance on game near and far, to create bullets that fly like ELDs, penetrate like TTSXs and kill like Partitions or Bergers, and better. Sierra's statement tells me it won't be them. It's just that statement of theirs I have an issue with. Hopefully I'm making too much of it, taking out of context, or whatever.

M D -

Thnx for your accountS of Sierra bullets from UR experience and observations of others who used them. I readily accept your comments and acceptance of them at least for Deer.

WAY back in the 70s as I was developing handloads for hunting, I literally tested diff makes of bullets in MANY media, from red clay banks, uprooted tree stumps, sifted top soil, mud, wet/dry news papers, catalogs, even SAND.
Don't use sand--- it's like running bullets against a grinder (lol).

I tested 6mm, 270, & 30 cal, consequently, I never loaded/hunted/shot Sierras because I never found 1 (one) that didn't separate.

I would not trust any bullet that consistently separated for hunting game.

I've come to realize that NO medium is the same as animals.

Thnx again

Jerry

Based on some experience, I sincerely doubt Sierra is ignoring the "non-toxic" trend--but monolithic bullets are not the only answer there. They also started making plastic-tipped target bullets.

In my experience their assessment of the "long-range hunting" trend is spot on. There are two kinds of long range hunters: More ordinary hunters who want to extend their sure range to 500-600 yards, while not giving up close-in performance, and "real" long-range hunters who wouldn't dream of shooting at any animal under 500-600 yards away. The first type is already served by a bunch of different bullets, whether Barnes LRX's, Nosler AccuBonds (long range or otherwise), Swift Scirocco II's, or whatever. The second isn't worried about up-close performance.

The other fact is that "shooting" (meaning targets and other kinds of competition, general range-plinking, and varmints) is increasing far faster than big game hunting these days, despite the zillions of whitetails and feral pigs being killed each year--which do NOT require premium bullets.

Plus, aside from their huge government and target market, Sierra sells a lot of bullets overseas, and even these days relatively few foreign countries require non-toxic big game bullets. Those that do aren't huge markets.

It's a mistake to assume that Sierra ignoring the "premium" big game market is eating into their growth or profits. And again, why would they use a bunch of time, energy and money entering a market that's already flooded by not only major companies but many smaller companies?

My father killed a passel of deer, one shot each, with 150 grain Sierra boat tails on top of 52.3 grains of 4064 out of a 30-06. I know because I loaded the ammo.

He was a small bore competitor and won a number of medals before I was born, so Pop knew how to squeeze a trigger.

Correct, I have never failed to kill an animal cleanly, when I have done my part, using the given bullet, within it's design parameters, and destroying vitals. Reaching the brain, spinal cord via neck, or lungs, typically does not take a Premium bullet, on most game, using most common cartridges.

Agree with others, the bulk of handloaded bullets shot are not at large game, as so many rounds are used in practice, and zeroing a rifle.

Now if a given bullet cannot take out a given vital on a given shot choice, presentation, etc. I hold fire.

A premium can expand the options of what shot presentations a knowledgeable shooter will take.

I have taken deer using a 70gr TNT at 3300-3500 mv, on deer with neck shots at 45 yds, lung shots at 200, and 105 Amax on spine shots at 200 yds, and lung shots at 400yds when started at 2850.

Would I try busting shoulders with either? No. Those bullets are not designed for that job, yet I was 100 PERCENT successful b/c I knew the limits and parameters of my bullet in chamber, and aimed/fired accordingly.

That said, cheaper cup/core bullets are more economical for practice and on varmints, while a box of premiums can be sparingly selectively used for game only, after confirming zero.

I have a buddy who borrowed a 350 RM with 225 Sierra's one evening, busted both shoulders on a large 10pt WT Buck, dumped the deer, found the bullet on the offside under the hide. Perfect mushroom. Next evening dumped a doe, also "Right ther in tracks" with a nice silver dollar exit on the offside lung. So with that performance, some might call it a premium He planned to use some 225 NPTs I loaded for a guided Elk Hunt, due to TSA regs, ammo was not in proper box, so he had no ammo for that rifle on the trip. He did as I suggested, grabbed some NON-PREMIUM Low BC Low SD 200gr Corelokt factory ammo, placed his shot, and brought home one Heck of a Trophy sized Elk.

SO back to Rule #1.....It's SELDOM going to let you down, as if you Reach and destroy vitals via shot placement and PRESENTATION given design parameter consideration, then YES, you will be successful.

Again, we must clarify, there are many vitals offered. The Brain and Spine may not require as much penetration to be taken out. We must not think shoulders/heart only....

Premiums are great to use on many hunts and scenario's, but just b/c of the intro of better bullets, it does not render older style cup/core bullets "ineffective" - as being "Shot Selective" - and TRUE with one's aim, is well, back to the basics. RULE #1

prm: You will almost NEVER see a Hornady bullet at a registered shoot in my part of the country.

Funny you say that, I'll be taking Horn bullets with me to a registered match this weekend

I've also realized LONG ago that most people are very provincial.

When I say hunting, lots of guys have an image in their head of sitting in a blind/tree stand and waiting for that GOLDEN shot presentation.


In which case being a gold medal winning, match shooter and shooting Olympic bullets will likely make you smile.

What type of match?

If it's anything 600 yards and closer where a 308 is applicable I'd think the current AMP jacket 168 Hornady BTHP ought to be a contender. I've shot a big load of them along with similar weight Sierras and Noslers and they've all been quite good.

Almost all the deer I've killed were killed with Sierra bullets. I've got no complaints with them. I've had better performance out of them than some Hornadys, frankly.

I'd rather not EVER use the 140gr. BTSPs out of a .270 again, and probably won't. I've had them go all to pieces, or not expand, out of the same box of bullets. A plant tour of Hornady's place got me some falsehoods told, too.

Some of the first batches had the cannelure WAY far back on the bullet, later boxes had the cannelure moved forward to keep the bullets keep them together better. The techs at Hornady told me they'd never changed the bullets, period, but the bullets I had had different shapes and the ogives were considerably different.
That sorta soured me on Hornady. I've had NO such issues with Sierras.

A while back the ogives changed on the Hornady 150 grain 308 and 139 grain 7mm flat bases and neither one shoots the same for me. For deer hunting at my range limitations it doesn't really matter much, but it still bugs me.

Rule #1: When you find something you LIKE, buy an truckload of it, because they probably won't be making it next week.

Nor will they tell you if they changed it if they do happen to still be making it.

Back in the 70's and 80's I too traveled the high power silhouette circuit, California, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico. If 100 shooters showed up, 98 of them would be using Sierra's. One of my first deer rifles was a M721 30.06 In those days I'd fill a Winchester case up with IMR4350 and seat a 150gr Sierra in it. I still have not seen much improvement over that bullet's performance. It just kills the snot outa deer and such. I think some of us way over think what's needed to kill deer sized animals. We do not need bullets that will shoot through concrete walls while retaining 99 percent of their weight. However, I do see a place for using a premium bullets on elk sized animal and that's what I do these days. As much as I respect Sierra and Hornady bullets, I'm now only hunting BG with Nosler Partitions largely in and effort to simply my life.

Don't matter, see Rule #1

Math man: I don't know...registered NRA matches, High power,over the course. Whatever they call them. Perry, Wimbledon, Quantico. I don't participate as I have never had the time for it.

These shooters are some of the best in the northeast and nationwide, and some have competed against guys like Tubbs and Litz. Some are (what do they call them?) Wimbledon Grand Masters? Including at least one woman last year.

Some are my friends for years. They shoot Sierra's. You ask them "Why no Hornady for score?" they all say the same thing...

Quote: "There's at least one problem in every box". When you shoot for score in competition,I guess you can't tolerate that.

TTSXs like Porsche, there are no substitutes....

Exactamundo!

With those things you shoot at a zillion fps I suspect not much else would hold together!

2 comments

I have shot a LOT of hornady at matches. And a lot of Sierra. Not to mention a lot of others, like berger and JLKs

The only hornady I ever shot that held a tight race to sierras was the 75 amax. And even then they had a couple of bad lots of them where I had to trade in 5-10,000 bullets a few times for new runs.

Sierra, I have seen a sierra fail to kill a deer. Shot through both lungs. 165 game king, out of 30-06.

Piece of lung on the ground. Deer was killed running a doe 3 weeks later with scars in both lungs.

I think that may have been a bit more of the deers desire to live, but a 30 cal hole in a rib going on and same going out, would indicate very little expansion.

While my 7mm experiences with the 160 game king in a 7x300 wtyb have never failed to kill, at the same distances, around 80 to about 175ish yards, I've seen about every example of expansion imagineable from that bullet. Quit using it after 2 years of hunting with it. You could head shoot a doe and about take the head off one time, then next have a 7mm entry hole in the head and about a dime or so exit...

Even had a small pig, about 50 pounds trotting off around 150-175 yards take one to the back of the neck, trying for the head, and the bullet blew up on the spine trying to get into the skull which it never did.

Its a reason I"m so much an all around Barnes shooter generally speaking.

The most consistently performing cup and cores that I"ve shot have been partitions and bergers.

I think Hornady's recent implementation of AMP jackets in its match bullets within the last few years has helped with consistency.

My one experience shooting game with Sierras was interesting. I normally used Speer hot cores in my .260, but in the fall of 2000 I bought a box of Sierra 120 grain flat base hunting bullets, think they were pro hunters. We had a lot of snow that fall, and getting around was tough. I shot a mule deer doe at about 80 yards across a coulee. I saw the dust fly from behind the doe's shoulder, and she took off running down a cow trail. Crossed the coulee, found blood, but not a lot. Easy to see with the snow though. Followed her about 1/3 of a mile, thank goodness she stayed on the trail and didn't head down into the steep draw the cow trail paralleled. When my friend and I dressed her, there was a 26 caliber hole in, between two ribs, and a 26 caliber hole out, again between two ribs. I don't think the bullet expanded at all. Not a lot of lung damage either, though some. I was loading those to a little over 2800 fps, and as close as I was, impact velocity should still have been good. I know this was a sample of one, and missing a rib both entrance and exit is probably not common, but I switched back to Speers after that and shot up the rest of the Sierras at targets.

The thing I like about Sierras is that if you work up a good load with a particular bullet, there is a good chance they will still be offering that bullet the next time you need to buy some. Not so, many of their competitors, to wit:

Nosler: solid base, many iterations of ballistic tips,
Speer: hot cores, Mag Tips, deep shocks, deep curls, now hot cores again, redesign of the Grand Slams...
Hornady: dropping many interlocks, AMax?
Barnes: how many iterations have we seen of the x bullet?

The latest and greatest can be good, but it is a two edged sword.

Sierra bullets generally have been accurate for me and usually kill quickly, but often make mess especially with combos like the 180 gameking out of a .300 Win mag and an average mule deer. Shoulder or behind the shoulder, my experience is that high velocity and sierra's equals an exploding bullet. I don't use them anymore. I've seen plenty of shards of copper and lead throughout the body cavity, and the heart is often mush. If you're good with that, then rock on with Sierra's.

I think a lot of the "good" or "bad" experiences concerning these bullets are determined by what one deems as "acceptable" meat damage.

That, and they got rid of those freaking melting tipped bullets. How can anyone shoot those with any accuracy whatsoever?

I should add: out of modest velocity rounds like the 30-30 or 30-40 Krag, normal Sierra bullets often do just fine on game, with much less damage.

Speed can be your best friend or worst enemy with Sierra's, depending on what your shot preference is.

Shot a lot of feral pigs with the Sierra 300g HP from my 45-70. Quite soft but devastating and very very accurate.

Shoulder shot a 140kg boar at 80y. Dropped and pumped. No exit.

Same pig as in my avatar.

I would use them again.

maybe with some, but with .224 75s thats been a big funny... at least out of 223.

Sure, at those pumpkin roller velocities, even Sierras get the job done. Overall I like Barnes' the best, but I use and like Partitions, Hornady Interlocks, A Frames etc. Sierras not so much

Ain't that the truth

No it's exactly the opposite in my experience. I spoke to a tech a Sierra and they told me the 215 was designed with a thinner jacket for 338-06 velocities. They work well for me and have never recovered one. Elk and all were DRT. Also a very accurate bullet.

Also don't agree on match shooters. Sierra is rapidly losing the match shooter market. Hornady, Berger, and Nosler are rapidly taking a good portion of their market. They still make good bullets though.

This has been an interesting thread.

We've heard from several people who've used Sierra hunting bullets in magnums at over 3000 fps and either didn't like the different ways they expanded or how much meat they shot up. This isn't odd, because Elmer Keith was saying the same things about cup-and-cores in high-velocity magnums from about 1930 on. Of course, I had to confirm it for myself, but had pretty done so by my mid-20's, whereupon I started using either heavier cup-and-cores, enough so muzzle velocity wasn't much above 2800 fps, or premiums--though I also discovered that at least a couple of the so-called premiums of the day didn't work exactly as advertised. Apparently, however, every generation has to rediscover the same things.

However, the 7x57 160 GameKing load I've used with such consistent results both in North America and Africa is one stolen from Elmer Keith. He loaded thousands of them for Don Hopkins (the "H" in OKH) for the many lengthy safaris Hopkins and his wife made. They used the load for smaller plains game, what might be called "deer-sized" but ran in size from Thomson's gazelles about the size of a large Eastern coyote to animals more on the order of caribou--and probably some larger. They shot the animals for trophies, camp meat, and baits for cats, and kept requesting more 160 Sierra loads, because they worked, killing quickly and reliably yet not shooting up much meat. It was a load Keith himself recommended, which is exactly why I tried it--and so far have gotten got exactly the same sort of results, several decades later, on a similar range of animals.

Good. Nice. Glad that's what you see.

In my neck of the woods Sierras aren't rapidly losing to anything among the shooters I know.


I was merely speculating on the 215 Sierra. Both the 338/06 and that bullet are way off my radar. I have no skin in Sierras for hunting and no much use for a 338 of any type.

Why they would design a bullet for an unpopular cartridge is beyond me but I guess they did it.

I used to shoot a lot of Sierras, but now shoot mostly Hornady and Nosler bullets.

I use Sierras and Noslers with a small sample of Swifts.

Drew a Pronghorn Buck in area 3 Colorado with 13 PP. I will use the same rifle and load I have used since the early 80's.

257 Weatherby 117 grain Sierra Pro Hunter in front of 70 grains IMR 7828 and a 215 mag primer. Fast, accurate, and deadly.

This is my go to rifle/load for all Pronghorn and Deer. It has never failed me.

As and my hunting camp mates are happy to point out; the 45-70 is indeed a pumpkin roller...

One of them even asked if I chronoed my loads with a stop watch!

I am a slow learner, and don't read many gun articles. Everything I know about bullets I learned here.

Unpopular? I know of a LOT of folks that run a 338-06. Not quite so many the AI but a lot that run the 338-06. Says something when you consider its not walmart stock rounds....

Now are there enough to design a bullet around it? Don't know that, but the 338 fed probably works good with it too....

The 215 Sierra Gameking was designed for 338 Win Mag velocities, not so much the 338-06.

PG,
That is my understanding as well. It is a messy deer bullet out of a 338WM and is "dramatic" on pigs as well. It shoots accurately, what's not to like. I think I can buy 100 of them for the price of the 50 accubonds which means I shoot the rifle more often...another upside.

I shoot Sierra, Hornady and Nosler and have no issues with any of them...but most of my shots are inside 200 yards as well.

LowBC

This thread reminded me that I have never fired a Sierra bullet in my 37 years of handloading. Not exactly sure why.

The only bullet failures that I've ever had were Sierra BTHP Gamekings, 85 grain .243" and 90 grain .257". Only four failures, 2 of each bullet, so a very small sample size, but enough to prompt me to stop using them for medium game.

I used to shoot a lot of 75 grain .257" HPs at pdogs and coyotes with great success, but, for no particular reason, I switched to the 75 grain VMax.

Jeff I'm thinking 30/06 or 308 popular.

I sure don't see 338/06's every day and wouldn't bet I could buy factory ammo anywhere within driving distance.

Never seen one in a hunting camp anywhere. I must lead a sheltered life...

I do know where there's a re bored M70 though. belongs to a friend. He never uses it.

About the only time the thought of "bullet failure" has risen to my mind has been when animals were not recovered. Then again there's no way of knowing in those cases whether it was just poor shot placement or......... a MISS. In fact sometimes I've known too damned well it was a miss.

Anyone else on here who misses?

If it won't open at muzzle velocity from a 338-06, it's a 150 yard bullet from a 338 Win mag. Seems like people would want a little more reach.

Yup and quite often too.

I've recovered failed bullets. it happens pretty often when guiding hunters. just have decent bullets in your rifle when backing up hunters with brand X, Coreloss, or whatever in thiers.

I expect a little more from a bullet than just hitting the animal.

THey are not that popular for sure, but I've seen a lot more 338-06 than I ever expected to. Likely due to Elmers writings of the 333 OKH basically...as a starter.

Been down to our heat here in TX lately?

If you are responding to me, all four "bullet failure" deer were recovered. The bullets came apart on impact, such that there was no more than 1" of penetration, something that I never worry about with the Partitions that I have used since then.

Some years ago, I put together a 338-06 on a Husqvarna 8000/9000 series action as part of a matched pair, the other half being chambered in 256 Newton, but I don't shoot either very often. This rifle shoots very well, with 210 grain Partitions being slightly more accurate than its 225 grain brother.

Jeff,

As I mentioned, a lot of hunters make the mistake of assuming ALL big game bullets of a certain brand and type work exactly the same, even though there's usually some difference in construction in bullets from, say, 6mm to .375. This is even true of Nosler Partitions.

All Nosler Partitions just 'pencil on through'.......right?

Bob,

I'm also not convinced the .338-06 is very popular. Maybe among some rifle loonies, but that's a very different thing than "real world" popularity. The only three I've seen in hunter's hands have been in mine....

Also, I suspect Weatherby was a little bitter after their reintroduction of the .338-06 (after A-Square fumbled around with it initially) fell really flat. Beforehand they asked a bunch of gun writers what they thought of the idea, which is much like asking Hollywood starlets about what cars might sell in Iowa.

I told them it was a fine cartridge, but they wouldn't sell many, which is exactly what happened, though that doesn't mean I know much about the gun business. Many other guys only mentioned the "great cartridge" part.

Jeff have not been down.

But looking ahead I may need some winter bass fishing so may come down to Austin over the winter.....I love those Texas Lunkers and want to fish Lake Austin





John I know 338/06 is a really good cartridge and I have been surprised it has not caught on except among looneys. But when it comes to rifle cartridges you are right that on the CF we view cartridges through an entirely different prism.....

I have tried to justify a medium on the 06 case many times but always conclude I'll just grab a 30/06 with 200's if I need it and if more is required a 375 or a 9.3 if I ever decide I'm done with a 375.

Which won't be soon because I have spare parts ready to box up and send to the smith for another 375 so how's that for convoluted logic? Campfire style?

Yes, I understand that, but I get "peace of mind" using Partitions, as they have yet to fail me and are a variable that I don't have to think about.