Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Sierra... Why no premium bonded bullets?

As a moose hunter, I shoot my .375 about 25 times a year with NP,s As a competitive XC shooter, I shoot 3-4 thousand Sierra's a season. If you were a Bean counter for a bullet company; what would you have your production lines making?
Follow the money.

There you go! They deliver Sierra Match bullets to my club on pallets.

Why I laugh at these threads about Sierra missing the market.....pretty funny.

I emailed Sierra and that is exactly what they said, that it was a stout bullet designed for the 338 Win Mag. But I was shooting out of a 338-06, 2600-2700 impact velocity, so that's not that far down range with the WM. And I tried more than one.

I do like other Sierras, and if they made a .338 Gameking or Pro Hunter in the 180-200 range I'd definitely give it a good tryout.

Edit: My comment about their business plan was meant to get at the idea that it seemingly lacks innovation. That they choose not to innovate. Maybe they won't make a bonded bullet, but they ought to look for ways to build a better mouse trap. Looking at the target bullets, I can't imagine they are growing their share of the market with Lapua, Berger, and now Hornady ELD-Ms on the market. I used to use the 175 SMK as the baseline for my 308 loading, and will still use Federal GMM to test, but I now have more confidence in starting with a 155 Scenar for handloads. At the end of the day they make good bullets, just lack any wow factor, or filling a niche, right now giving me a reason to try them over others.

I don't really think their business plan is bad at all. 95% of the bullets sold are to target shooters, varmint hunters and deer hunters where c&c bullets have performed well for decades. So I think they are pretty smart to simply let Hornady systematically discontinue their excellent line of C&C interloocks and replace them with so called premium bullets at premium prices and wait for the interlock market share to migrate to gamekings.

There are a lot of valid points made above, but I look at things a little differently. With all the hoopla about lead now days, and states starting to outlaw it. I believe Sierra would be far better off if they started offering some pure copper bullets or premiums. They would be caught with their pants down if lead was totally band by the EPA or other government action.

I like so many others shoot Sierra for most hunting situations and would sure hate to loose that availability.

The government might buy a couple Sierra bullets..

prm: Lots of matches are won every year with Sierra bullets. The wow factor has a funny habit of not lasting as long a lot of times.

Think about it....we see posts here every day about guys fiddling with this or that bullet,fiddling with seating depths, etc etc. trying to get bullets to shoot.

You rarely if ever see that stuff or hear many complaints about Sierras. If I want to know if a rifle shoots well, they are among the very first thing loaded.

If a rifle will not shoot Sierras,there is something wrong with the rifle.

Thats especially true if you are not using Barnes bullets!

I"ve seen so much variation in Sierra expansion its not even funny. I almost won't use them on game at all anymore.

OR the scope

OR the triggerer


Jerry

Back in the 70's and 80's when I campaigned the High Power Silhouette circuits. The comment most commonly repeated was, If it wont shoot Sierras it wont shoot anything else either.

The use of Sierras for hunting is full of contradictions.

I have killed a huge pile of big game over the past 40+ years with Sierras, mostly GameKings, including many African animalks, and have yet to encounter a major problem. In fact, 130 GK's are what I started hunting with in my first .270 Winchester many years ago. According to many that's a combination doomed to failure, because they'll come apart.

I have seen quite a few bullets separate jacket and core over the decades, but in all but two instances it apparently occurred only AFTER the bullet penetrated the animal, because the jacket and core were found lying together under the hide on the far side. And those bullets included a bunch that WEREN'T Sierras, including just about every cup and core made in America, including one or two Hornady Interlocks.

The only two bullets I've seen leave the jacket somewhere behind the core were a 130-grain .270 GameKing and a 105-grain Speer Hot-Core. Both were shot into eating-size buck deer, and in both instances the jacket stopped right under the hide on the ribs, while the core kept on going and killed the deer.

In the past decade the Sierra I've used most is the 7mm 160-grain GameKing from the 7x57, handloaded to around 2650-2700 fps. Have used it not only on deer-sized game in North America (and never recovered one), but on a bunch of Africa plains game of about the same size. The only one recovered over there was a finisher from a warthog that was lying unconscious and obviously expiring, but still breathing. The finisher was put into the chest from about three feet, and jacket and core were found lying together under the hide on the far side.

A long-time outfitter I know in eastern Montana personally prefers the same bullet in his 7mm Remington Magnum, not only for his own pronghorn and deer hunting but for finishing off deer his clients have shot with premium bullets. Some of those aren't shot too well, but some are shot OK and go a long ways because, he says, too many of his clients use premium bullets that don't do enough interior damage. He's a handloader who's very well acquainted with big game bullets and cartridges, and I always find his comments based on plenty of observation and experience. Craig Boddington is also fond of the same combination.

Another point is that Sierra hunting bullets, like all hunting bullets, differ enough in construction in various weights and calibers that it's not always relevant to make generalizations about performance from 6mm's to far larger calibers. But that's exactly what many (if not most) hunters tend to do, if they've gotten beyond the stage of believing the cartridge is the main factor in "killing power."

Speaking of "cup & core together"



65gr Gameking, launched from a AR-15 with 1 in 7 barrel. Broadside shot, broke onside humerus, stopped in offside hide. Spike buck went 30 yards & dropped.

I would not shoot a bigger animal with it, but it worked.

Savage 99, don't look at this photo...

Completely agree. I too think the .308 175 SMK is a go-to bullet and what Sierra makes, they typically make well (except for the 215 GK!). But in the same rifles, I have to fiddle with them no differently that with other bullets. However, for a business to say things such as "no, we don't intend to offer an enhanced construction bullet" or "It makes absolutely no sense to use a rifle capable of clean kills at 600 yards to harvest animals at 75 to 150 yards" or "to expect a bullet to perform well at 100 yards and the accompanying high impact velocity then ask that same bullet to exactly duplicate that performance at 600 yards and the drastically reduced impact velocities is asking way too much" strikes me as a very odd. So I take it they are not even trying to create new solutions to hunting near and far, they are not going to ever offer a mono solution to lead restrictions, they are not going to offer confidence inspiring solutions to hunting tougher game or using faster cartridges at shorter ranges (sometimes elk show up closer than you planned)? I'd rather a company work to find better alternatives. Sure Sierra can sell bullets, lots of them, to the govt, and there will be a market for target shooting with their SMKs. But my guess is others are eating into the target shooting market. For example, I recently picked up a 6.5 Creedmoor and when I got to researching bullets, hunting and target, Sierra didn't have what I felt was a better solution for either, and I seriously considered them. They make good target bullets no doubt (142 SMK), but there are now others. Turns out Hornady ELD-Ms shoot incredibly well. All I'm saying is that good companies are always trying to build a better mousetrap, something you never considered before, and their statement says they are not interested in evolving. Someday a company will develop new construction techniques or use new materials that improve consistency, lower costs, or improve performance on game near and far, to create bullets that fly like ELDs, penetrate like TTSXs and kill like Partitions or Bergers, and better. Sierra's statement tells me it won't be them. It's just that statement of theirs I have an issue with. Hopefully I'm making too much of it, taking out of context, or whatever.

M D -

Thnx for your accountS of Sierra bullets from UR experience and observations of others who used them. I readily accept your comments and acceptance of them at least for Deer.

WAY back in the 70s as I was developing handloads for hunting, I literally tested diff makes of bullets in MANY media, from red clay banks, uprooted tree stumps, sifted top soil, mud, wet/dry news papers, catalogs, even SAND.
Don't use sand--- it's like running bullets against a grinder (lol).

I tested 6mm, 270, & 30 cal, consequently, I never loaded/hunted/shot Sierras because I never found 1 (one) that didn't separate.

I would not trust any bullet that consistently separated for hunting game.

I've come to realize that NO medium is the same as animals.

Thnx again

Jerry

Based on some experience, I sincerely doubt Sierra is ignoring the "non-toxic" trend--but monolithic bullets are not the only answer there. They also started making plastic-tipped target bullets.

In my experience their assessment of the "long-range hunting" trend is spot on. There are two kinds of long range hunters: More ordinary hunters who want to extend their sure range to 500-600 yards, while not giving up close-in performance, and "real" long-range hunters who wouldn't dream of shooting at any animal under 500-600 yards away. The first type is already served by a bunch of different bullets, whether Barnes LRX's, Nosler AccuBonds (long range or otherwise), Swift Scirocco II's, or whatever. The second isn't worried about up-close performance.

The other fact is that "shooting" (meaning targets and other kinds of competition, general range-plinking, and varmints) is increasing far faster than big game hunting these days, despite the zillions of whitetails and feral pigs being killed each year--which do NOT require premium bullets.

Plus, aside from their huge government and target market, Sierra sells a lot of bullets overseas, and even these days relatively few foreign countries require non-toxic big game bullets. Those that do aren't huge markets.

It's a mistake to assume that Sierra ignoring the "premium" big game market is eating into their growth or profits. And again, why would they use a bunch of time, energy and money entering a market that's already flooded by not only major companies but many smaller companies?

My father killed a passel of deer, one shot each, with 150 grain Sierra boat tails on top of 52.3 grains of 4064 out of a 30-06. I know because I loaded the ammo.

He was a small bore competitor and won a number of medals before I was born, so Pop knew how to squeeze a trigger.

Correct, I have never failed to kill an animal cleanly, when I have done my part, using the given bullet, within it's design parameters, and destroying vitals. Reaching the brain, spinal cord via neck, or lungs, typically does not take a Premium bullet, on most game, using most common cartridges.

Agree with others, the bulk of handloaded bullets shot are not at large game, as so many rounds are used in practice, and zeroing a rifle.

Now if a given bullet cannot take out a given vital on a given shot choice, presentation, etc. I hold fire.

A premium can expand the options of what shot presentations a knowledgeable shooter will take.

I have taken deer using a 70gr TNT at 3300-3500 mv, on deer with neck shots at 45 yds, lung shots at 200, and 105 Amax on spine shots at 200 yds, and lung shots at 400yds when started at 2850.

Would I try busting shoulders with either? No. Those bullets are not designed for that job, yet I was 100 PERCENT successful b/c I knew the limits and parameters of my bullet in chamber, and aimed/fired accordingly.

That said, cheaper cup/core bullets are more economical for practice and on varmints, while a box of premiums can be sparingly selectively used for game only, after confirming zero.

I have a buddy who borrowed a 350 RM with 225 Sierra's one evening, busted both shoulders on a large 10pt WT Buck, dumped the deer, found the bullet on the offside under the hide. Perfect mushroom. Next evening dumped a doe, also "Right ther in tracks" with a nice silver dollar exit on the offside lung. So with that performance, some might call it a premium He planned to use some 225 NPTs I loaded for a guided Elk Hunt, due to TSA regs, ammo was not in proper box, so he had no ammo for that rifle on the trip. He did as I suggested, grabbed some NON-PREMIUM Low BC Low SD 200gr Corelokt factory ammo, placed his shot, and brought home one Heck of a Trophy sized Elk.

SO back to Rule #1.....It's SELDOM going to let you down, as if you Reach and destroy vitals via shot placement and PRESENTATION given design parameter consideration, then YES, you will be successful.

Again, we must clarify, there are many vitals offered. The Brain and Spine may not require as much penetration to be taken out. We must not think shoulders/heart only....

Premiums are great to use on many hunts and scenario's, but just b/c of the intro of better bullets, it does not render older style cup/core bullets "ineffective" - as being "Shot Selective" - and TRUE with one's aim, is well, back to the basics. RULE #1

prm: You will almost NEVER see a Hornady bullet at a registered shoot in my part of the country.

Funny you say that, I'll be taking Horn bullets with me to a registered match this weekend