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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,860 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,860 Likes: 10 |
If I were a betting man my money would be on us not getting all pertinent information, otherwise it would have been handled already. What information do you want to know? My wife made it a point to not have contact with her Ex unless it is dealing with her daughter. So he only gets notified if it's a medical issue or if she's doing something special with her school, 4H, or sports in case he wants to show up. He has made it known that he'll not visit his daughter where she lives, and she will only visit him where he is stationed or at his parents homes in the Carolinas or Florida. I've been with my wife since 2008 and she was divorced in 2006. This is the first time he's ever asked about the AR-15 rifle since I've been with her. So there is a two year gap I don't know nor do I care about. Now there have been several times in the last eight years he's tried to stir trouble up for us. He never asks or offers a compromise, he gives us orders on what we'll do and when he expects it done regarding his daughter and other things like this rifle. However this is the first time he has ever threatened to involve any form law enforcement and not just the courts. It's not about the rifle at all for me and my wife. If her Ex would show up at our house and politely ask for it we'd hand it over, even though after I read the abandoned property laws for CO he has no legal right to it. I'm done with it, and I'm not going to allow my family to bow down to him in fear of legal or litigation issues every time he threatens it. My wife's lawyer that handled the divorce is now retired. The lawyer we used last time for the modification of parenting time is a two hour drive away since we moved for my work after the last time we were in court. I was just more interested in figuring out what kind of legal advice we would need to seek if the ATF or other Law Enforcement agency showed up asking questions. Just DO whatever you want to do until such time as you have a Order from a Court telling you do do something else. What if John Smith contacted you today and said you dented his bumper in 2006 in a parking lot at Walmart... would you tell him to pound sand and to get a Court Order?... or buy him a new bumper? IF you really did dent John Smith bumper... you morally owe John a new bumper. In a divorce there is huge financial carnage on both sides... if your wife feels morally obligated to make restitution with the rifle... do so. If not, do nothing. If lawyers are required, I would sell her rifle to pay for the lawyers... but personally I would rather feed and breed feral hogs over lawyers.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,418
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,418 |
Only thing I see is the ex husband still has control of the ex wife.
Ex speaks, ex wife listens and gets upset.
Ex husband is shooting back for the upcoming new expense.
Sell the AR and use proceeds for the braces.
This is the best advice. The ATF or any other law enforcement agency won't care or get involved with who is the legal owner. You have broken no laws, so long as you are legally allowed to possess firearms. Sell it legally and you are done with it. Don't admit in writing that the rifle is his or that you are willing to send it to him. He's not going to do anything but trying to tick you off. Keep documentation of the sale and what you received for it.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
Tell him if he wants the AR back then he has to take the EX wife back also. End of Argument
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
I believe you said previously that the rifle doesn't mean much to you. Why not just give it to a local police department with a written explanation of the situation and then tell the ex that he needs to work through the PD to regain custody of it.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,282 Likes: 27
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,282 Likes: 27 |
I believe you said previously that the rifle doesn't mean much to you. Why not just give it to a local police department with a written explanation of the situation and then tell the ex that he needs to work through the PD to regain custody of it. Worst advice on this thread.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Hey, the government fixes all problems....
You can depend on them.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
I believe you said previously that the rifle doesn't mean much to you. Why not just give it to a local police department with a written explanation of the situation and then tell the ex that he needs to work through the PD to regain custody of it. Worst advice on this thread. Consider the source, according to him the Confederate flag shouldn't be flown and Redskins should change their name, don't want to offend.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2 |
I'm not sure that the wife could legally hand the rifle over to the ex-husband if he showed up on the front porch.
Having title to property is one thing. Having possession is another. Interstate transfer of title is, as far as I know, not regulated. Interstate transfer of possession is regulated, and both the giving and receiving party commit felonies if an interstate transfer is done without an FFL.
Title to the property is probably held by the wife, if the standard 30 day possession clause is in the divorce decree. Like so many things in a divorce, he may have bought it, and it may have been his at one time, but it probably is now hers. And the wife clearly has possession of the property.
Even if the ex-husband holds title to the rifle, she probably commits a felony if he shows up at the house and she hands the rifle to him. The ex-husband lives in NY, he's not a resident of your state, and you can't transfer possession without an FFL.
Be done with this negative interaction. You don't need more conflict in your life. Either tell him to pound sand, or tell him you'll turn it over to an FFL in your state and he can deal with it from there. This is simply not worth the emotional investment it's getting.
Last edited by denton; 06/29/16.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
There is no title to a rifle.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466 |
Be done with this negative interaction. You don't need more conflict in your life. Either tell him to pound sand, or tell him you'll turn it over to an FFL in your state and he can deal with it from there. This is simply not worth the emotional investment it's getting.
This "advice" keeps popping up. I doubt that any FFL would want to get involved. I don't believe they'd be legally obligated to get in the middle of a cluster [bleep].
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,810
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,810 |
You don't need a lawyer. Ignore him. Don't jump through any hoops, don't do squat. Just ignore him and move along. this is the best advice you've gotten or are liable to get. I have had a certain amount of experience with my wife's ex husband. He's a manipulator like this guy seems to be. Took me a while to teach my wife how to bitch slap him every time he tried to pull some shcit, but he keeps a pretty low profile now.
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2 |
There is no title to a rifle. You probably hold title to the shoes you are wearing, and to the hammer in your toolbox. Why do you believe there is no title to a rifle? Most of the stuff you own (hold title to) does not have a state issued certificate of title, and one is not needed in order to hold title.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
There is no title to a rifle. You probably hold title to the shoes you are wearing, and to the hammer in your toolbox. Why do you believe there is no title to a rifle? Most of the stuff you own (hold title to) does not have a state issued certificate of title, and one is not needed in order to hold title. So, you want to make an academic argument. So tell me pray tell, how does one, short of pulling out a receipt, prove ownership of personal property except by possession or testimony?
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2 |
It's not an academic argument. Anything you own, you hold title to. And you do not necessarily have possession of everything you own, nor do you hold title to everything you possess (have control of).
This issue came up in the courts not long ago. The government confiscated the firearms of a convicted felon. The felon argued that even though he could not legally possess (have control of) firearms, he could legally own (hold title) to them, and give them to a FFL to sell for him. The court agreed, the guns were sold, and the felon received the money from the sale (transfer of title in exchange for valuable consideration).
Proving you hold title is completely separate issue.
Last edited by denton; 06/29/16.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
No it isn't a separate issue. As a practical matter, you don't actually own anything that you can't prove you own.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2 |
As a practical matter, you don't actually own anything that you can't prove you own. Nonsense. In the court case cited above, the felon probably had no kind of certificate that showed he owned the firearms. Yet the court acknowledged his ownership, allowed them to be sold, and allowed the felon to receive payment for them.
Last edited by denton; 06/29/16.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,813 Likes: 5 |
As a practical matter, you don't actually own anything that you can't prove you own. Nonsense. In the court case cited above, the felon probably had no kind of certificate that showed he owned the firearms. Yet the court acknowledged his ownership, allowed them to be sold, and allowed the felon to receive payment for them. And he "proved" that he owned them in court by offering sworn testimony that they were his that no one contradicted.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 910
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 910 |
If this guy is a loose cannon, hot head type, she should CONSIDER just giving it back to avoid some future shenanigans. Sounds like he just wants to start some chit. If he is the type guy to go nutz, or poison your outside pets, etc maybe she's better served just giving it back.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,116 Likes: 2 |
And he "proved" that he owned them in court by offering sworn testimony... So he proved he had title to the firearms? A moment ago, there was no title to a firearm. Hold title=own.
Be not weary in well doing.
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