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hatari Offline OP
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People hear Trump speak of building a wall, and the most common vision is another Great Wall of China along our southern border.

That is an impossibility, and a more limey scenario is a scaled down version of Rommel's "Atlantic Wall". Even at that, the cost would be enormous, but of course the benefit is enormous.

Quote
The Atlantic Wall

Citation: C N Trueman "The Atlantic Wall"
historylearningsite.co.uk. The History Learning Site, 21 Apr 2015. 19 Jul 2016.


The Atlantic Wall was the name given to a massive coastal defensive structure built on Hitler’s orders that stretched all the way from Norway, along the Belgium and French coastline to the Spanish border. The Atlantic Wall covered a distance of 1,670 miles and it formed the main part of Hitler’s ‘Fortress Europe’. The wall was built to repulse an Allied attack on Nazi-occupied Europe – wherever it was planned for. The building of the Wall started in 1942 and ended in 1944. The building project was vast and most of it was done along the French coastline where it was assumed by the Nazi hierarchy that an Allied landing would most likely be.



Fűhrer Directive No 40, issued on March 23rd 1942, ordered the building.



Initially the building concentrated on protecting ports where U-boats and other vessels of the Kriegsmarine were based. Once this had been completed the building of the Wall started in other coastal areas. In 1944, the French part of the Atlantic Wall was heavily reinforced on the orders of Erwin Rommel who was placed in charge of improving the defences. Artillery emplacements were supported with machine gun posts and other artillery emplacements were built inland to give the Wall some form of protection when the expected Allied landings took place. Beaches along the northern coastline of France were strewn with anti-tank and anti-vehicle obstacles known as ‘Rommel’s Teeth’. Many of these had mines attached to them so that at high tide both the ‘teeth’ and the mines would not have been seen by an invading force keen to get onto the beaches. At low tide, they would have been seen and in Rommel’s planning would have been effective at delaying any advance onto the beaches. He believed that the invasion had to be stopped on the beaches. Rommel assumed that once the Allies had established a beach head the war would be lost. Six million mines were laid on beaches in Northern France.



In France to this day the building of the Atlantic Wall is controversial. Some saw the Atlantic Wall as a sign of collaboration during World War Two. “A lot of French construction companies got very rich out of building the Wall. After the war, France needed those same companies for the task of reconstruction. So no-one said anything. There was a wilful blindness, in which everyone was complicit.” Jerome Prieur.



Many thousands of French men were forced to work on the Atlantic Wall as part of an arrangement between the Vichy government and the Albert Speer’s Organisation Todt.



“There was no choice about it. We had to go. Naturally we weren’t enthusiastic, but it is not as if we had any choice. The conditions were not terrible. We weren’t beaten or anything and we got a basic wage. At the start we could go home on Sundays, but after Stalingrad they put up barbed wire and we were stuck inside the work camp. Of course we knew we were building defences for the Germans, and it felt bad. I remember at the end of the war, my two brothers came home. One had been a prisoner, the other a deportee. I felt so bad I did not want to go to the party celebrating their return. But I do think the wall should be preserved now. It is important to remember what happened – the ignominy of it all, the cataclysm that we had to endure.” (Rene-Georges Lubat)



The Atlantic Wall as an entity absorbed a huge amount of German resources. The Wall used up over 17 million cubic metres of concrete and 1.2 million tonnes of steel and the cost in France alone was 3.7 billion Deutschmarks. Had the Organisation Todt paid out a fair wage per worker per day, the cost would have been even greater. However, slave labourers cost nothing while those pressurised into working were paid a minimal wage for the work they carried out.



The most heavily constructed batteries were around the north and west coasts of France. The ‘Batterie Lindemann’, named after the captain of the ‘Bismarck’, was built near to Calais and covered the English Channel. Its primary purpose was to defend against an Allied invasion but its massive guns were also used against shipping in the Channel and against Dover itself. The ‘Batterie Lindemann’ fired 2,450 shells at targets in the Channel or against Dover or Folkestone – not for nothing was that part of Kent known as ‘Hell Fire Corner’.



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Probably won't happen at all. Maybe a facade. It doesn't matter though. Trumps our man.


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I think his wall means, patrol with A-10 Warthogs on a five mile buffer zone both north and south of the border.


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Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"

Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."

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Don't underestimate Trump. A wall of wire and guard towers would be a good start though.

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We have interstate freeways from coast to coast with overpasses every mile.
How is it impossible to build a wall on the Mexican border?


Duh

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Originally Posted by viking
A wall of wire and guard towers would be a good start though.


At first glance, I don't see why anything else other than that fortified by some high tech stuff maybe, would be needed. The fence could possibly be electrified to the point that it would make an attempt to climb it very unpleasant but not fatal. That way no animals or birds, especially deer, would get killed messing with it. Deer lives matter dontchaknow! laugh

Do that and hit people who employ illegals with very serious consequences and I think you solve the problem. The great wall of China is not needed.


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Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.


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Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.


And enforce this vigorously. No welfare or anchor babies either. miles


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Originally Posted by milespatton
Quote
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.


And enforce this vigorously. No welfare or anchor babies either. miles


And a green card that works...


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About every construction site around here is filled with meskins, yellow iron is run by meskins. Cleaning and landscapers are meskins.

When I was guarding banks, we as guards had to have a stellar back ground. One of my pals said he got to his post a little early one morning and the cleaning crew was still there. He asked for their identification, and was shown a Mexican DL. WTF.

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Originally Posted by 2fast4u2

We have interstate freeways from coast to coast with overpasses every mile.
How is it impossible to build a wall on the Mexican border?


Duh


The US-Mexico border is just under 2,000 miles long and crosses canyons, rivers, swamps, etc. Yes, you can build a 2,000 wall, but at what cost? Some estimates have placed the cost at $20 billion+. But this depends on the materials used, the height of the wall, maintenance costs, etc. Also, it will be difficult to build a wall that lets river water pass through and yet keeps out border crossers.

Interstate highways follow the most desirous route and wind around obstacles and inhospitable areas. A border MUST follow the border precisely, or the US will effectively cede control of some US territory. It will be difficult and expensive to build; only fools believe that Mexico will pay for it. Also, regardless of how high it is, taller ladders will be built. There will be high maintenance costs and increased numbers of Border Patrol agents will be required.



See:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/systems/mexico-wall.htm

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-cost-us.html

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Originally Posted by milespatton
Quote
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.


And enforce this vigorously. No welfare or anchor babies either. miles


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah but mexicans will still want to come --many are here doing illegal things you know .
Bales of pot -kidnapping -robbing folks since they can't work here..


PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!


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The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Probably won't happen at all. Maybe a facade. It doesn't matter though. Trumps our man.


No way he's building a wall. He has a tendency to "over speak". Some folks call it lieing.


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Originally Posted by ol_mike
Originally Posted by milespatton
Quote
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.


And enforce this vigorously. No welfare or anchor babies either. miles


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah but mexicans will still want to come --many are here doing illegal things you know .
Bales of pot -kidnapping -robbing folks since they can't work here..


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^BOTH OF THESE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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The wall will be virtual, consisting of military and other people and technologies that will prevent illegal crossing.

Enforcing "no hire of illegals" is a good idea, but un enforceable.


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A ma deuce placed every 880 yds, 440 yds inside the actual border, manned 24/7, with thermal spotting equipment would be just as effective, far less expensive, and send an actual message.

With the added benefit that our young men in uniform would be undeniably protecting their homeland.

You do not hear of many illegals crossing the N/S Korean border. Nor did many escape E Berlin.


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Originally Posted by dale06
The wall will be virtual, consisting of military and other people and technologies that will prevent illegal crossing.

Enforcing "no hire of illegals" is a good idea, but un enforceable.


But if you coupled mandatory 2 year prison terms (for the first offense, more for repeaters) to those hiring illegals, it might have an effect.

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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
A ma deuce placed every 880 yds, 440 yds inside the actual border, manned 24/7, with thermal spotting equipment would be just as effective, far less expensive, and send an actual message.

With the added benefit that our young men in uniform would be undeniably protecting their homeland.

You do not hear of many illegals crossing the N/S Korean border. Nor did many escape E Berlin.


"Nor did many escape E Berlin."

But many died trying, wanting to get to a better life. The world soundly condemned E. Germany for shooting unarmed civilians; do we want to be in the same category?

Even with the tight security, about 40,000 E. Germans escaped.

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_attempts_and_victims_of_the_inner_German_border[u][/u]

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40,000 (over, how many years?) is a long way from the millions presently swarming into the country.

And it would not so much be a case of our boys murdering innocent civilians as it would be suicide by GI. The decision would be made by the idiot trying to run a gauntlet of machine gun fire.


People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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