The Atlantic Wall

Citation: C N Trueman "The Atlantic Wall"
historylearningsite.co.uk. The History Learning Site, 21 Apr 2015. 19 Jul 2016.


The Atlantic Wall was the name given to a massive coastal defensive structure built on Hitler’s orders that stretched all the way from Norway, along the Belgium and French coastline to the Spanish border. The Atlantic Wall covered a distance of 1,670 miles and it formed the main part of Hitler’s ‘Fortress Europe’. The wall was built to repulse an Allied attack on Nazi-occupied Europe – wherever it was planned for. The building of the Wall started in 1942 and ended in 1944. The building project was vast and most of it was done along the French coastline where it was assumed by the Nazi hierarchy that an Allied landing would most likely be.



Fűhrer Directive No 40, issued on March 23rd 1942, ordered the building.



Initially the building concentrated on protecting ports where U-boats and other vessels of the Kriegsmarine were based. Once this had been completed the building of the Wall started in other coastal areas. In 1944, the French part of the Atlantic Wall was heavily reinforced on the orders of Erwin Rommel who was placed in charge of improving the defences. Artillery emplacements were supported with machine gun posts and other artillery emplacements were built inland to give the Wall some form of protection when the expected Allied landings took place. Beaches along the northern coastline of France were strewn with anti-tank and anti-vehicle obstacles known as ‘Rommel’s Teeth’. Many of these had mines attached to them so that at high tide both the ‘teeth’ and the mines would not have been seen by an invading force keen to get onto the beaches. At low tide, they would have been seen and in Rommel’s planning would have been effective at delaying any advance onto the beaches. He believed that the invasion had to be stopped on the beaches. Rommel assumed that once the Allies had established a beach head the war would be lost. Six million mines were laid on beaches in Northern France.



In France to this day the building of the Atlantic Wall is controversial. Some saw the Atlantic Wall as a sign of collaboration during World War Two. “A lot of French construction companies got very rich out of building the Wall. After the war, France needed those same companies for the task of reconstruction. So no-one said anything. There was a wilful blindness, in which everyone was complicit.” Jerome Prieur.



Many thousands of French men were forced to work on the Atlantic Wall as part of an arrangement between the Vichy government and the Albert Speer’s Organisation Todt.



“There was no choice about it. We had to go. Naturally we weren’t enthusiastic, but it is not as if we had any choice. The conditions were not terrible. We weren’t beaten or anything and we got a basic wage. At the start we could go home on Sundays, but after Stalingrad they put up barbed wire and we were stuck inside the work camp. Of course we knew we were building defences for the Germans, and it felt bad. I remember at the end of the war, my two brothers came home. One had been a prisoner, the other a deportee. I felt so bad I did not want to go to the party celebrating their return. But I do think the wall should be preserved now. It is important to remember what happened – the ignominy of it all, the cataclysm that we had to endure.” (Rene-Georges Lubat)



The Atlantic Wall as an entity absorbed a huge amount of German resources. The Wall used up over 17 million cubic metres of concrete and 1.2 million tonnes of steel and the cost in France alone was 3.7 billion Deutschmarks. Had the Organisation Todt paid out a fair wage per worker per day, the cost would have been even greater. However, slave labourers cost nothing while those pressurised into working were paid a minimal wage for the work they carried out.



The most heavily constructed batteries were around the north and west coasts of France. The ‘Batterie Lindemann’, named after the captain of the ‘Bismarck’, was built near to Calais and covered the English Channel. Its primary purpose was to defend against an Allied invasion but its massive guns were also used against shipping in the Channel and against Dover itself. The ‘Batterie Lindemann’ fired 2,450 shells at targets in the Channel or against Dover or Folkestone – not for nothing was that part of Kent known as ‘Hell Fire Corner’.

A wall of wire and guard towers would be a good start though.

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.

And enforce this vigorously. No welfare or anchor babies either. miles

We have interstate freeways from coast to coast with overpasses every mile.
How is it impossible to build a wall on the Mexican border?


Duh

And enforce this vigorously. No welfare or anchor babies either. miles

Probably won't happen at all. Maybe a facade. It doesn't matter though. Trumps our man.

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Yeah but mexicans will still want to come --many are here doing illegal things you know .
Bales of pot -kidnapping -robbing folks since they can't work here..

The wall will be virtual, consisting of military and other people and technologies that will prevent illegal crossing.

Enforcing "no hire of illegals" is a good idea, but un enforceable.

A ma deuce placed every 880 yds, 440 yds inside the actual border, manned 24/7, with thermal spotting equipment would be just as effective, far less expensive, and send an actual message.

With the added benefit that our young men in uniform would be undeniably protecting their homeland.

You do not hear of many illegals crossing the N/S Korean border. Nor did many escape E Berlin.

No way he's building a wall. He has a tendency to "over speak". Some folks call it lieing.

I gonna sign up as a volunteer to help President Trump build the wall. I've always wanted to learn masonry.

I think his wall means, patrol with A-10 Warthogs on a five mile buffer zone both north and south of the border.

But if you coupled mandatory 2 year prison terms (for the first offense, more for repeaters) to those hiring illegals, it might have an effect.

You want to secure the border:

1. Crackdown on the companies hiring the illegals. Jail the key company officers who order and/or do it. Seize the company assets and sell them at public auction with monies being applied to the national debt.

2. Create a five mile wide DMZ type area along the border complete with minefields, no less than three full divisions of troops, artillery, air support and everything else needed to secure it as best as is humanly possible. Any thing or any one caught inside the DMZ area will be eliminated on sight.

3. Inform Mexico that if they do not stem the flow of people across the border on their side it will be considered an act of war and dealt with accordingly.

4. Declare all the drug cartels terrorist organizations and let the military loose on them.

You want to secure the border:

1. Crackdown on the companies hiring the illegals. Jail the key company officers who order and/or do it. Seize the company assets and sell them at public auction with monies being applied to the national debt.

2. Create a five mile wide DMZ type area along the border complete with minefields, no less than three full divisions of troops, artillery, air support and everything else needed to secure it as best as is humanly possible. Any thing or any one caught inside the DMZ area will be eliminated on sight.

3. Inform Mexico that if they do not stem the flow of people across the border on their side it will be considered an act of war and dealt with accordingly.

4. Declare all the drug cartels terrorist organizations and let the military loose on them.

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to make it illegal to hire mesicans without visas? I suppose that would be too easy.

40,000 (over, how many years?) is a long way from the millions presently swarming into the country.

And it would not so much be a case of our boys murdering innocent civilians as it would be suicide by GI. The decision would be made by the idiot trying to run a gauntlet of machine gun fire.

The fact is, we simply don’t need to build a wall.
Just pass and enforce laws against hiring illegal immigrants.
1st offence, $250 fine PER illegal
2nd offence, $2,500 per
3rd offence, $25,000 plus mandatory 1 month in jail.
Cut off all welfare.
Within 6 months, 90% will scurrying back across the border.
The ones that are left are real criminals, convict them and lock them up, and take the cost of the up keep from aid to Mexico.

I don't think [].

You want to secure the border:

1. Crackdown on the companies hiring the illegals. Jail the key company officers who order and/or do it. Seize the company assets and sell them at public auction with monies being applied to the national debt.

2. Create a five mile wide DMZ type area along the border complete with minefields, no less than three full divisions of troops, artillery, air support and everything else needed to secure it as best as is humanly possible. Any thing or any one caught inside the DMZ area will be eliminated on sight.

3. Inform Mexico that if they do not stem the flow of people across the border on their side it will be considered an act of war and dealt with accordingly.

4. Declare all the drug cartels terrorist organizations and let the military loose on them.

The fact is, we simply don’t need to build a wall.
Just pass and enforce laws against hiring illegal immigrants.
1st offence, $250 fine PER illegal
2nd offence, $2,500 per
3rd offence, $25,000 plus mandatory 1 month in jail.
Cut off all welfare.
Within 6 months, 90% will scurrying back across the border.
The ones that are left are real criminals, convict them and lock them up, and take the cost of the up keep from aid to Mexico.

"2. Create a five mile wide DMZ type area along the border complete with minefields, no less than three full divisions of troops, artillery, air support and everything else needed to secure it as best as is humanly possible. Any thing or any one caught inside the DMZ area will be eliminated on sight."


And what will be the cost of buying the 2,000 mile long by 5 mile wide strip of land from the ranchers, farmers, citizens and towns within this area? Who will pay for it (maybe just add it to the National Debt that Donald Trump opined that he'd forfeit on).

Now you're talkin!

But, it doesn't seem to be legally enforced and prosecuted.

Hungary and Macedonia built effective border walls/barriers in about 6 months that have been highly effective.

The US-Mexico border is just under 2,000 miles long and crosses canyons, rivers, swamps, etc. Yes, you can build a 2,000 wall, but at what cost? Some estimates have placed the cost at $20 billion+. But this depends on the materials used, the height of the wall, maintenance costs, etc. Also, it will be difficult to build a wall that lets river water pass through and yet keeps out border crossers.

Interstate highways follow the most desirous route and wind around obstacles and inhospitable areas. A border MUST follow the border precisely, or the US will effectively cede control of some US territory. It will be difficult and expensive to build; only fools believe that Mexico will pay for it. Also, regardless of how high it is, taller ladders will be built. There will be high maintenance costs and increased numbers of Border Patrol agents will be required.



See:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/systems/mexico-wall.htm

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-cost-us.html

While I think he was being a bit hyperbolic, as he is want to do, you need to consider that in this day and age it doesn't really need to be a physical wall.

"Smart dust" and ground based sensors, Aerostat balloons with GMTI radar that tracks anything moving on the ground and thermal sensors. Processing back ends to classify and track the contacts and a robust and well trained border patrol that will intercept the inbound mules and arrest and deport.

This, combined with penalties for hiring illegals, and a new immigration system to ensure that the ones that follow a system and want to become citizens have a way to do it without years of wait.

A mine field is a much better idea

A mine field is a much better idea

Those who want our military to stand on our border need to remember that silly document some of us swore to defend with our lives. It is called he Constitution.

Who said it would be on OUR side of the border?

We just gave Iran $150 Billion, 20 billion is Trump change.

Who says the wall won't work?

Maybe those who are watching the current walls being breached and thwarted.

It would be easy and cheap to build a crossing deterrent. Sanctions would cover the cost. NO government contractors, only vetted private contractors. Maybe even offer 2-3 years of work on the wall to workers with visas to put them on the fast track to citizenship. It's not rocket surgery.

FIRST start enforcing out laws rather than making new ones. Go forward from there.

I have a service connected disabled vet owned construction business. Does your plan disqualifie me from bidding by your standards just because I am a certified government contractor?

Absolutely not. I should have been more specific but I'm a man of few words.
Please bid but don't expect special treatment. I thank you for your service and you deserve any and all benefits promised to you.
I own a contracting company and it's frustrating trying to bid against Native Americans, African Americans, women, etc and any other company owner who isn't a white male. I only succeed because I do better work. They always get the government bid even if it's way higher. It really sucks when those contractors toss it in my face.

Anyway.... There are good profitable ways to deal with illegals.

Build a big wall.

Minefields.. you guys are idiots.

So, the f'ing idiot wants to know what we should do. Maybe just give yo and surrender the country to Mexico?

Tell us oh wise one.

I think his wall means, patrol with A-10 Warthogs on a five mile buffer zone both north and south of the border.

Unmanned, armed, drones is the way to go. The specter of unseen death from above coupled with the reality that every inch of the border is being survailed 24/7/365, would eliminate incursions cost effectively and completely. Yes, some might have to die initially, but once death was confirmed certain, the border would be secure.

You seriously want to plant landmines at our southern border??

You would think that building a simple barrier was a major challenge listening to the Dems and some here.

How hard would it be?
Like putting a man on the moon hard?
Like building an aircraft carrier hard?
Like educating millions of non English speaking illegals hard?

If we hadn't spent the money stopping invaders in the Middle East we could probably have built 4 or 5 border walls to stop invaders of our own country.

What we lack is the will, not the means. We have undertaken
many tougher tasks.
The naysayers need to step aside.

Who says the wall won't work?

You would think that building a simple barrier was a major challenge listening to the Dems and some here.

How hard would it be?
Like putting a man on the moon hard?
Like building an aircraft carrier hard?
Like educating millions of non English speaking illegals hard?

If we hadn't spent the money stopping invaders in the Middle East we could probably have built 4 or 5 border walls to stop invaders of our own country.

What we lack is the will, not the means. We have undertaken
many tougher tasks.
The naysayers need to step aside.

You seriously want to plant landmines at our southern border??

Are you serious? That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

El Chapo... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/12/americas/mexico-el-chapo-escape-sinaloa-cartel-tunnels/index.html

Start reading your own posts, then. Obviously, neither then have you read any posts harking a wall as a solution to illegal immigration.

Building a physical wall on the U.S./Mexico border is a stupid political stunt. Our border with Mexico is 1,600 miles long. Even if we complete and enhance the existing wall to make it impenetrable it won't stop illegals from entering the country. Say we build the wall all the way from the Pacific Ocean to El Paso. That's not going to keep illegals out because they will just go around it. We're not going to build a wall down the middle of the Rio Grande River. Nor are we going to give up sovereignty of half of the river by building a wall on our side of the river. So we still have 800 miles of river border that anyone can wade across. The Chinese built a wall to keep out the Mongols and Genghis Khan just rode around it. Can't we learn from history?

We could deploy the military on the border and start shooting trespassers. But that's not going to happen. The Chinese did that too and it didn't work.

Now if we really want to keep out illegals, we should build a legal wall that will actually accomplish the job. First we have to enforce existing laws that prohibit companies from employing illegals. Then we have to change the laws that allow illegals to get benefits like free housing, free education, food stamps, free medical care, general relief and welfare payments, etc. These changes will eliminate the incentive for people to infiltrate our country and they will not only stop coming but they will go home. However, until the political climate changes none of these essential changes will occur and foreigners will continue to come and continue to burden our countries' tax and social welfare system.

People who want to come to this country and enjoy the benefits of a free country are not bad people. We should do the following:
1. Create the legal environment already outlined here.
2. Create a system that ensures that the rights of American citizens come before the rights of foreigners.
3. Build processing facilities on the U.S./Mexico border like Ellis Island or the Tower of Hope.
4. At the processing facilities we can ensure that those entering the country can at least communicate in basic English, have skills that make them employable and which do not compete with American workers, have no communicable diseases, are not terrorists or convicted felons. People who do not meet the criteria must be prohibited from entering the country.

We should create a fast track system to naturalized citizenship, for people who enter the country legally. That's how our ancestors got here.

KC

Building a physical wall on the U.S./Mexico border is a stupid political stunt. Our border with Mexico is 1,600 miles long. Even if we complete and enhance the existing wall to make it impenetrable it won't stop illegals from entering the country. Say we build the wall all the way from the Pacific Ocean to El Paso. That's not going to keep illegals out because they will just go around it. We're not going to build a wall down the middle of the Rio Grande River. Nor are we going to give up sovereignty of half of the river by building a wall on our side of the river. So we still have 800 miles of river border that anyone can wade across. The Chinese built a wall to keep out the Mongols and Genghis Khan just rode around it. Can't we learn from history?

We could deploy the military on the border and start shooting trespassers. But that's not going to happen. The Chinese did that too and it didn't work.

Now if we really want to keep out illegals, we should build a legal wall that will actually accomplish the job. First we have to enforce existing laws that prohibit companies from employing illegals. Then we have to change the laws that allow illegals to get benefits like free housing, free education, food stamps, free medical care, general relief and welfare payments, etc. These changes will eliminate the incentive for people to infiltrate our country and they will not only stop coming but they will go home. However, until the political climate changes none of these essential changes will occur and foreigners will continue to come and continue to burden our countries' tax and social welfare system.

People who want to come to this country and enjoy the benefits of a free country are not bad people. We should do the following:
1. Create the legal environment already outlined here.
2. Create a system that ensures that the rights of American citizens come before the rights of foreigners.
3. Build processing facilities on the U.S./Mexico border like Ellis Island or the Tower of Hope.
4. At the processing facilities we can ensure that those entering the country can at least communicate in basic English, have skills that make them employable and which do not compete with American workers, have no communicable diseases, are not terrorists or convicted felons. People who do not meet the criteria must be prohibited from entering the country.

We should create a fast track system to naturalized citizenship, for people who enter the country legally. That's how our ancestors got here.

KC

Unmanned, armed, drones is the way to go. The specter of unseen death from above coupled with the reality that every inch of the border is being survailed 24/7/365, would eliminate incursions cost effectively and completely. Yes, some might have to die initially, but once death was confirmed certain, the border would be secure.

Now where have i read that before?

We have interstate freeways from coast to coast with overpasses every mile.
How is it impossible to build a wall on the Mexican border?


Duh

Is your yard fenced?

Do you lock your house?

The absolutely clueless rantings from a congenitally bloodthirsty idiot.

GTC

I put dead bolts on my doors because I get better rates on my homeowners insurance. But I don't bother to use them. If someone wants to break into my house, a locked door is not going to stop them.

KC

Of course we can build it. Cost: several Billion $$$$$$$$

I see it differently. If the wall forces them to dig tunnels then the wall is working. The tunnels are a whole lot more difficult to accomplish than simply walking across as they can now.

The technology today is much better at detecting than it was in the past.

If someone wants to break into my house, a locked door is not going to stop them.

I put dead bolts on my doors because I get better rates on my homeowners insurance. But I don't bother to use them. If someone wants to break into my house, a locked door is not going to stop them.

KC

And more from an uninformed idiot with no imagination, it would appear. You must be a Hillary voter.

As I can see such a program rolled out, we would drop flyers, use radio and TV to insure everyone knew drone protection was going to be used and it would be lethal and accurate. The first few who tried the new system should be met with an appearance from the drone and fire that pinned them in place and scared the chit out of them but did not kill. They would be picked up and sent home with admonition to tell those who might come after then what awaited. If several iterations of that proved fruitless, direct targeting would be required.

Or, we could just let illegals keep coming and killing American's one way and another. And they will. A wall won't stop them. It seems that is the clueless congentially bloodthirsty killings you prefer, those of American's.

You see it differently because you have your eyes closed to the real issues of why they are here in the first place....Jobs, welfare, medical, housing etc. etc. Take all of those issues/options off the table and tell me illegal immigration would still be a problem.

Hey stupid,....we BUILD, and TEST drones here, in the very closest town. We TRAIN drone pilots here, and I am pretty damned conversant with what can and can't be done with em'.

.....you mister ( small m,) see me as a "Hillary voter?"

Some advice :

Don't be in the same enclosed space with sche it and bean dip at the same time,...your threshold for confusion is obviously fairly low.

I'm calling ANYBODY that's suggesting mining our side of the line as a flake.

I put dead bolts on my doors because I get better rates on my homeowners insurance. But I don't bother to use them. If someone wants to break into my house, a locked door is not going to stop them.

KC

How much TIME have you actually spent on the Mexican border, Rambo ?

GTC

Very little, but neither have I spent any time in the Harley factory and that didn't prevent me from rebuilding mine so it would run like it should. Maybe you've spent to much.

Maybe you should read, and than RE-READ the Article that Mudhen kindly put up

Orwellian fascism turns stomachs.

Unmanned, armed, drones is the way to go. The specter of unseen death from above coupled with the reality that every inch of the border is being survailed 24/7/365, would eliminate incursions cost effectively and completely. Yes, some might have to die initially, but once death was confirmed certain, the border would be secure.

Just like waiting on your fantasy proposals will stop them. You live in Colorado Springs and don't lock your house? I have a hard time believing you. I bet you don't lock your car either.

Bet a couple of bucks though, that while the door may not be locked, the gun is loaded.

As Middleforkminer said, cut off all the free sheit and welfare and they would RUN back across that border. Also, let the Border Patrol do their job instead of "handcuffing" them as our worthless AIC has done. It may not solve all the problems, but it would be a giant step in the right direction.



Jim

But you DO have a door, correct?

"2. Create a five mile wide DMZ type area along the border complete with minefields, no less than three full divisions of troops, artillery, air support and everything else needed to secure it as best as is humanly possible. Any thing or any one caught inside the DMZ area will be eliminated on sight."


And what will be the cost of buying the 2,000 mile long by 5 mile wide strip of land from the ranchers, farmers, citizens and towns within this area? Who will pay for it (maybe just add it to the National Debt that Donald Trump opined that he'd forfeit on).

My .357 magnum will stop them.

I believe that is the way we should start to solve this problem. The laws are there, lets use them.