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Campfire Ranger
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The only thing that matters is faith, expressed through works. The rest is just detail and commentary. Edited for clarity. More like 'edited' to suit your own purposes. Actually it was both. The truth serves my purposes. So 'editing' someone else's post to suit 'your' purposes falls under 'your' definition of truth. Got it.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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A.S. is just practicing his Religion, Atheism, same as the guy in Saudi Arabia which prompted this thread.
Being a negative proposition, Atheism can make no positive statements to support itself. Its adherents MUST practice deceit in order to participate in any religious discussion.
One example is that they deny Atheism IS a religion.
Put simply...... they MUST twist YOUR words because they have none of their own.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Outfitter
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...what are the works you guys are posting about. Those who profess to follow Jesus should embrace the one mandate that Jesus Himself said would identify His followers more than anything else. Ones devotion to...and love for...God is demonstrated, illustrated, and authenticated by ones love for others. The only thing that matters is faith, expressing itself through love…love for God AND love for others. The rest is just detail and commentary. [/quote] What's I'm hearing you and RH say is faith lead to deeds, it's kind of the Chicken and Egg of Theology. [/quote] Rather than chicken and egg,I prefer the branch and the vine. The branch can do nothing of itself unless it is connected to the vine. If it is connected to the vine,the natural result is fruit produced.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 09/22/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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What I'm seeing here in these answers to my questions are all personal opinions of their personal expression of "love". Is it "works" if one obeys Jesus when He instructed to not make long prayers in the synagogue or when he said when you give don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing? How 'bout when He instructed to turn the other cheek. Is that "works"? Is it "works" to preach the Gospel and is it "works" to get baptized according to His command?
Since these actions don't allow the Christian to get his opinion involved so they may not be accepted so readily.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"By *this* everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." - Jesus
The defining characteristic of a follower of Jesus is how they treat other people.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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JGRaider & R_H_Clark,
It sure seems like you guys are saying exactly what I have been saying for years. What I would like to know is what are the works you guys are posting about. We were put on this earth to serve, not be served. Works, INHO, is taking care of orphans and widows, feeding the poor and hungry, spreading the word, and most importantly to love people. Once again, it's all plainly stated in the scriptures.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So let me get this straight. You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. Is that right? How do you handle the command "Grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,"? Should we be learning what Apostles Paul and Peter taught?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. lol Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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So let me get this straight. You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. Is that right? How do you handle the command "Grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,"? Should we be learning what Apostles Paul and Peter taught? You keep going right back to your same old song and dance. You want to be able to say that you have obeyed because you have done X,Y,or Z. By doing this you try to elevate yourself as having done the correct thing and condemn others as not having done that thing. You have never understood that the thing you do is not what's important at all. You will not get to Heaven based on what you do. You will only get to Heaven based on your faith in what God has done. You wanted to know why I consider you a Pharisee. This is exactly the reason. The Pharisees were certain that their obedience put them in right relationship with God and elevated them above other people. If that is not what you are doing you sure sound like it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So let me get this straight. You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. Is that right? How do you handle the command "Grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,"? Should we be learning what Apostles Paul and Peter taught? You keep going right back to your same old song and dance. You want to be able to say that you have obeyed because you have done X,Y,or Z. By doing this you try to elevate yourself as having done the correct thing and condemn others as not having done that thing. You have never understood that the thing you do is not what's important at all. You will not get to Heaven based on what you do. You will only get to Heaven based on your faith in what God has done. You wanted to know why I consider you a Pharisee. This is exactly the reason. The Pharisees were certain that their obedience put them in right relationship with God and elevated them above other people. If that is not what you are doing you sure sound like it. I don't think you understand a simple post. I didn't tell you what I am doing. I asked questions. I didn't suggest you do anything. Are you guilty of, "'They honor Me with the lips but their heart is far from me,'"?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. lol Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him. So then the rest of Jesus' instructions don't apply to us Christians today?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. lol Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him. So then the rest of Jesus' instructions don't apply to us Christians today? Just like the OT doesn't apply?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. lol Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him. So then the rest of Jesus' instructions don't apply to us Christians today? Just like the OT doesn't apply? Not a single law applies.The Bible is not a list of things you must do to go to Heaven. As I said earlier the law was only given to prove to man that they couldn't obey well enough to go to Heaven by obedience. Only one thing applies and that is us, by faith in God, receiving God's grace toward us. When we receive that grace it changes us to want to please God and do what is right in his sight. There is no list of things that must be done or else you don't qualify for Heaven. There are however many things that God tells us to do that will lead us into a better life.All these commandments we should obey,especially if we call Jesus our Lord but they do not qualify nor disqualify us for salvation.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. lol Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him. So then the rest of Jesus' instructions don't apply to us Christians today? Just like the OT doesn't apply? Not a single law applies.The Bible is not a list of things you must do to go to Heaven. As I said earlier the law was only given to prove to man that they couldn't obey well enough to go to Heaven by obedience. Only one thing applies and that is us, by faith in God, receiving God's grace toward us. When we receive that grace it changes us to want to please God and do what is right in his sight. There is no list of things that must be done or else you don't qualify for Heaven. There are however many things that God tells us to do that will lead us into a better life.All these commandments we should obey,especially if we call Jesus our Lord but they do not qualify nor disqualify us for salvation. So, it's the perfect book directly inspired by the all knowing Creator of the Universe, but you can essentially chuck all of it but three sentences?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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So, it's the perfect book directly inspired by the all knowing Creator of the Universe, but you can essentially chuck all of it but three sentences? [/quote]
No, I find all of it useful but if you just want to know what to do you can sum it up real easy. Love God with everything you have,and love your neighbor as yourself.
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Campfire Ranger
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. lol Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him. So then the rest of Jesus' instructions don't apply to us Christians today? Just like the OT doesn't apply? For Christians the Old Testament instructions were "abolished having been nailed to the cross."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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So, it's the perfect book directly inspired by the all knowing Creator of the Universe, but you can essentially chuck all of it but three sentences?
No, I find all of it useful but if you just want to know what to do you can sum it up real easy. Love God with everything you have,and love your neighbor as yourself. [/quote] If you "love your neighbor as yourself" do you try to teach them about God's salvation?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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You guys like the part where you can decide but don't go for the Part where you actually have to obey. Loving God, and demonstrating your love for God by loving others 'is' His greatest commandment. Doing that 'is' obeying Him. So then the rest of Jesus' instructions don't apply to us Christians today? Jesus prioritized 'people' over religious beliefs and values and rules and instructions. If you don't first and foremost obey His greatest commandment...the one that He said would identify you as His follower *more than anything else* would...then whatever else you say or do pertaining to your Christian faith is a moot point.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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So, it's the perfect book directly inspired by the all knowing Creator of the Universe, but you can essentially chuck all of it but three sentences?
No, I find all of it useful but if you just want to know what to do you can sum it up real easy. Love God with everything you have,and love your neighbor as yourself. If you "love your neighbor as yourself" do you try to teach them about God's salvation? [/quote] Yes, I think so, unless they completely reject any such notion. I think however the how to teach them is a huge question. Sometimes it might be by many words,sometimes only a few in season, sometimes only by appropriate actions.The Holy Spirit must be the guide. It seems to be something we do so poorly,often using scripture like a hammer when it mostly needs to be a seed.
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Campfire Ranger
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Not a single law applies.The Bible is not a list of things you must do to go to Heaven. As I said earlier the law was only given to prove to man that they couldn't obey well enough to go to Heaven by obedience.
Only one thing applies and that is us, by faith in God, receiving God's grace toward us. When we receive that grace it changes us to want to please God and do what is right in his sight.
There is no list of things that must be done or else you don't qualify for Heaven. There are however many things that God tells us to do that will lead us into a better life.All these commandments we should obey,especially if we call Jesus our Lord but they do not qualify nor disqualify us for salvation.
Very well said. You're getting pretty good at this. 
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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