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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,770 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,770 Likes: 7 |
My wife and I raised our three son's independent, to be their choice when they had the mind to choose. I was raised devout Catholic in an Italian immigrant family so the routine is clear. My wife was raised a mid-western Protestant in SoCal. Both of us were equally turned off by the "crammed down our throats" environment. So we married Protestant in respect of her grandparents. My side of the family CGAF at this point. She was happy, I was happy. Besides, it was her Father's dime. So now, many years later, my three sons have gone astray. The eldest, 26, reads and tries to live by Buddha. The middle one, well he would rather grill a tri-tip and pour down a MGD than even think about religion. The youngest, an 18 year old freshman at A&M, is there with his high school sweetheart. They, together, are trying to find a church and a like community. When he left our house he had zero of a view and, all told, didn't care to get "it". I suspect he will find what he and she want in religion and will be fine. My wife and I? Well we continue as we have. She knows my view and I know hers. We don't talk about it. In the end it all has seemed to have sorted itself.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,109
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
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cooper57M and Gus,
As atheists, what are your views on ghosts, aliens, and bigfoot? They are fun make believe stuff, like Santa Claus. If mankind doesn't or can't understand something, they make stuff up. Thank you for replying. Most of the Christians I talked to felt the same way. I guess some Christians and atheists would find some common ground on this issue. I have common ground with many Christians, beginning with ABC......anybody but clinton. I am ABC too.
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Joined: Jan 2016
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,893 Likes: 14 |
No, the argument based on faith. Faith is a circular argument. And gets eternal salvation. For every positive there is a negative. The negative of proof is faith.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
but there are lots of mean people that keep telling them they are going to hell. That's because they are going to Hell. It's not hate, it's just being truthful, and as we all know, the truth can hurt. But, I respect their right to make that choice...just as I expect them to respect MY right to be a Christian. If it's "the truth", show us your evidence. If you can't prove this claim, than it's just an empty threat to try and create converts for your religion. Just look at the world around you... the plants, the animals, the mountains, the rivers, the seas, the 4 seasons, and tell me that it "just happened". Without a doubt, there is a higher power. And there it is, folks! The first circular argument from ignorance on this particular thread! Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
No, the argument based on faith. Faith is a circular argument. And gets eternal salvation. For every positive there is a negative. The negative of proof is faith. We more or less know what you believe, why don't you tell us why you believe it?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
but there are lots of mean people that keep telling them they are going to hell. That's because they are going to Hell. It's not hate, it's just being truthful, and as we all know, the truth can hurt. But, I respect their right to make that choice...just as I expect them to respect MY right to be a Christian. So, you are saying that your god would not accept someone who didn't believe in him/her/it but who still chose to live a good life because they believed it was right, but, would accept someone who did believe in him/her/it and who lived a good life out of some fear of punishment or the promise of reward? Saying "you must believe in me, love me, worship me" etc. sounds very narcissistic, which is a human failing. I think there is far more evidence that we created our gods than the other way around. Humans are created in God's Image. We get our narcissism from Him. He is the Biggest Narcissist. His ego is the biggest. And He's in charge.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable. I begin with, "I think, there for I am". That is along way from beginning with The Theory of Evolution. There no equivalence between the Skeptic and those who hold a belief system in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable. I begin with, "I think, there for I am". That is along way from beginning with The Theory of Evolution. There no equivalence between the Skeptic and those who hold a belief system in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The bolden is a perfect example of the evolutionist.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,770 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,770 Likes: 7 |
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,687 Likes: 41
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,687 Likes: 41 |
Live and let live.
Thats good enough for me.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,866 |
[
Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable. Literally, everything in your post is wrong... literally.
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
From the DSM-5:
A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite evidence disproving it that is stronger than any evidence supporting it. It is distinct from an erroneous belief caused by incomplete information (misconception or misunderstanding), deficient memory (confabulation) or incorrect perception (illusion). The psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers proposed 3 criteria for delusional beliefs in 1913: certainty (the belief is held with absolute conviction), incorrigibility (the belief cannot be changed with any proof to the contrary) and impossibility or falsity (the belief cannot be true) (Jaspers, 1967). Delusions are associated with a variety of mental and neurological disorders, but are of diagnostic importance in the psychotic disorders.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
So...... Atheists are the only ones who are not delusional?
The vast majority of humans believe in a Higher Power and most claim to recieve some PRESENT benefits from their beliefs. But you say they are deluded.
You offer no proof that they are deluded, but you are certain that they are.
Because YOU do not believe in a Higher Power.
I can't see where you have a very persuasive argument.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
[
Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable. Literally, everything in your post is wrong... literally. So then you don't accept the basic concept of science is cause and effect? How can one conduct experiments without it?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
So...... Atheists are the only ones who are not delusional? Those are your words, not mine. All I did was post the definition.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,892 Likes: 2 |
From the DSM-5:
A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite evidence disproving it that is stronger than any evidence supporting it. It is distinct from an erroneous belief caused by incomplete information (misconception or misunderstanding), deficient memory (confabulation) or incorrect perception (illusion). The psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers proposed 3 criteria for delusional beliefs in 1913: certainty (the belief is held with absolute conviction), incorrigibility (the belief cannot be changed with any proof to the contrary) and impossibility or falsity (the belief cannot be true) (Jaspers, 1967). Delusions are associated with a variety of mental and neurological disorders, but are of diagnostic importance in the psychotic disorders. This describes classic evolutionism !
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
So...... Atheists are the only ones who are not delusional? Those are your words, not mine. All I did was post the definition. That's intellectual cowardice on your part. Why else would you post the definition?
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,081 Likes: 4 |
[
Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable. Literally, everything in your post is wrong... literally. So then you don't accept the basic concept of science is cause and effect? How can one conduct experiments without it? Because the basis of science is not cause and effect. It's observation.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
[
Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable. Literally, everything in your post is wrong... literally. So then you don't accept the basic concept of science is cause and effect? How can one conduct experiments without it? Because the basis of science is not cause and effect. It's observation. Talk about a hanging curveball.....w e will see if Ringman can blast it out of the park.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Posts: 8,899
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,899 |
Because they smell funny. hippie atheists....
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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