I'm sure not everyone does, but there are lots of mean people that keep telling them they are going to hell.

Is it hunting season yet? Lol!

Because they smell funny.

Odd!

I've NEVER met a pilot or a combat infantryman that was an atheist!!

Because they ask hard questions and seek answers using the scientific method, not through a book written by men and supposedly ghostwritten by a sky fairy?

first there was religion. then it evolved into science.

that was because man had an inquiring mind from day one: what does that fruit taste like? anyone know for sure?

over time, man's need to know moved from explaining things from a majickal sky-god who walked with him in the evenings, to trying explain things in greater detail.

man's mind began with god as the best answer available; over time science was borne on the scene. remember a mechanical universe, and how much sense it made for so long? ol Newton and the fall of the apple, right? now, the quantum physics purports to tell us what we've always wanted to know, but couldn't understand it well enough to explain to anyone who didn't think just like us.

i like the idea that god opened the door for us humans to have science as a walking partner down here on the earth.

as far as the athiests are concerned, some people put all their faith in a raw god; others put their faith in a raw science. the two are quite interrelated, i'm thinking.

I was in downtown seattle week before last. The whole place smelled like a combination of sewage and a sack of onions.

Atheists!

Because when they talk they use robot voices..

I'm sorry you went to Seattle but if it smelled like sewage and onions that's the homeless not atheists. Atheists smell like bullsh.it and agar....

They have their right to opinions, but they do not have the right to block others from theirs! THAT is the problem that I have with them, homos etc. Do what you want and believe what you want, but leave others alone in the process.

that was the mess hall that i ate out of when i was in the army, and that was in Texasas, not seattle, washington.

What about a homeless atheist with Buddhist leanings?

Smell like curry, I'd suspect.

God did that to him because he didn't believe enough.

Don't fugg with the jesus!

I don't hate anyone; takes too much energy.

I see hate coming from both sides which makes sense because people are people.

Pride of some atheists is their great intellect that they use to show their superiority over others.

Pride of some religious people is their presumed standing before God and the moral superiority they use to show their superiority over others.

Ironic how they end up at the same place.

that's because they are in the same place. they're just explainin' things differently for their own perceived benefit.

Why would anybody hate atheist? (Other than in defense of the fact that atheist hate everybody else.)

Gus, obviously Adam's travails were not a lesson to you. LOL here.

It smells leaps and bounds better than any other big city I've ever been in. And yeah, stay away from all the homeless the mayor and governor are importing and it won't smell as much. Try Bellevue instead.

yeah, yeah, i get it. so, would have the nw usa apple industry been as successful if eve (ha-vah in the hebrew) hadn't coerced her mate, Adam in taking a sample to see how it was?

No I meant agar. It was my subtle reference to what a scientist uses to culture or grow bacteria (amongst others) in a petri dish.

Everyone has a right to have their own opinions my friend. I spent a lot of years and I now suffer every day because I defended those rights.

I believe hate is an terrible word and an emotion I refuse to participate.

I think a better question was what kind of apple was it? If it was just some crappy red delicious I'm sure he was p.o.ed he got evicted for that. A really good Fuji or Gala he might not have felt so bad. Unfortunately, the good book is silent in that regard.

Huh?? When was the last time an atheist went door to door with a pamphlet hand-out touting their beliefs? When was the last time an atheist went on a "mission" to proselytize? When did you ever witness a meeting, a car race or anything start off with an atheist professing their ideas/beliefs? Nope. The religious type feel they have to do all that. When you sneeze did anyone ever say to you "Darwin bless you."? Religious people can believe whatever they want so long as they don't use their religion to pass laws that effect my freedom or go out of their way to harm me. When were you ever "blocked" by an atheist from believing what you do?

To answer the OP's question; because they have more fun and their Sundays are free!

This makes perfect sense to me. Christians have all kinds of skewed notions about an atheists 'beliefs' and therein lies the rub...the atheist has no beliefs. Simple as that.

That's the sulfur getting a head start.

Because they claim to not believe in something you'd have to believe in to pretend you don't believe in it?

i never was enamored of a red delicious apple. the russet golden delicious apple variety had just the right amount of juice, acidity, and flavor. but anyways, oral tradition went on for possibly thousands of years before the Scribes began to put things to paper (er, tablet). a lot of the finer details might have gotten lost in the process since we all agree nothing is perfect. i do like the idea that the best apple varieties sell the best overall.

There's your answer.

Making fun of and belittling what is most dear to a person never results in good will.

this post spells out exactly the essence of the conflict that we are facing. and can we solve it? not likely in the near term.

folks who hold near & dear to their beliefs hold them sacred, and without contradiction. i understand that. i think many of us do. it's part of our underlying structure.

however, there's folks who have a different perspective, a different understanding of the interpreted truth. but, how can that be?

what is the sound of one hand clapping? that pretty much sums it up, and we have to call upon the Zen buddhists to help us through this difficult impasse.

to agree to disagree, what a concept.

How can you proselytize when you don't believe? What would be in the pamphlets that atheists handed out if atheists handed out pamphlets? Blank sheets of paper? Why would an atheist go on mission? It's kind of li those phone in survey where there's 10% of the callers that don't know

Gee, I don't know about that, I'm agnostic and I would have to see I see a lot more hate coming from atheists geared towards Christians.

Love and faith don't lend themselves well to scientific methodology.

Bellevue smells like cougars and money!

Most folks don't like to be told they're wrong...doesn't matter the subject...

But a more complicated answer would be that all humans alive today have evolved from genetic groups that formed around a unifying principle of a higher power. That "belief in a god" allowed those societies to unify in larger groups that gave their group an edge in a fight for survival. After a few generations, the "belief in a higher-power based on faith" became a genetic pre-disposition.

Those that adopted the "faith" survived and those that didn't were outcast as non-believers or killed by the larger and more unified group.

It's the result of the application of basic Pavlovian and Skinnerian conditioning principles applied over the centuries and generations to a genetically receptive population.

Witness that Religion was originally invented as a form of government and societal control...that's not disputable.

The Athiests, being the heretics, witches and outcasts that resisted being controlled, as a result became subject to being slaughtered, as the Catholics did for centuries and millennia, and as the Islamists are doing right now, even as we speak...convert or die will tend to make a true believer out of you right quick!

Now if the atheists/heretics could figure out how to collect taxes/tributes to a God that they say doesn't exist they might have a chance to prosper or just mere survival...well... anyone can see the intrinsic problem inherent in that scenario!

that's probably true. but it's not more hate. it's just that in terms of proportional numbers, they are being attacked in greater numbers than they are attacking religious folks (christians, hindus, islam, etc.).

like folks who are dealing with carrying out their role as god's agents, the atheists feel under attack. and they're clearly in the minority. like a christian in a muslim community in the middle east, for example.

the lack of big pope hats. atheists need big hats and maybe some gaudy robes and incense burners to sling about.

Yes. Just like the Easter Bunny, obviously.

I dunno? I just hear folks telling them they are going to hell. Seems odd to me too. But then, people are often odd.

in order to be included (inclusive?) as a worthy minority, perhaps they should. and then i laugh.

i've lobbied my friends in the catholic realm to please get rid of the big hats, and gaudy robes, and slinging the incense burners so aggressively.

my goodness, we're in the postmodern world now. we've got the internet, NASA gives us a picture of the Globe floating in space, spinning on it's axis, night & day, night & day, over and over. and the Sun never shuts down.

wonder when the rank & file will catch up with the realization of what a marvelous creation is happening before our very eyes?

further, i would say nary a preacher can drive a new cadillac until every member in his congregation has one of their own. only then, can he/she/they have one. (right now, a lot of stuff is just pure-arse back-assards).

I actually like discussing my faith with an atheist as long as we can both speak respectfully to each other.

I added a few more notes to the discussion...

Hate? Naw, I'll leave that up to the liberals. And non-bicycle riders. And Hillary voters. And, and, and...

Because they're Godless commies

Ha that reminds me:

Hell yeah!!

that holds true for some of them that i know; but, it doesn't hold true for all of them that i know.

efw, That's funny.

both sides of the atheist vs. hindu/christian/muslim/buddhist? debate are offering up positions that neither side can possibly prove, or disprove. they're sayin' here's what i know, and this is what i believe, and out of that synthesis, here is my world view, and if you disagree strongly enough, i'll reject your viewpoint. it's really that simple, no?

it's a continuum, from very basic religious beliefs all the way to the far right which is very hard-core atheistic beliefs. we all fall on the continumn at some point. (i wish i could spell better).

one thing for sure, we're all breathing the same air, drinking the same water, and walking on the same ground. a space alien might conclude everyone down on the earth is just alike. they're all clones of each other. there's a male species & a female species, and they interbreed to cause a new little human to appear on the earth, in one sex or the other. and the Creator said:"this is good." but wait, who is this creator dude of which you speak?

IMHO, everyone doesn't hate atheists. I sure don't - some probably do, but none of my friends hate atheists. Then again, it seems like some atheists hate themselves. Go figure !

As a young adult still in college, I learned some things observing an older neighbor fellow. He shared my concerns about the lousy behavior of our common landlord. On one occasion, he professed: "I don't hate her - not at all - but I sure do despise a lot of what comes out of her."

Well they/we could go door to door trying to talk people out of their beliefs. But the fact is they/we don't. I was responding to the claim that atheists somehow block someone's beliefs. For the vast majority of us - we don't. No one would know I was an atheist unless they were to ask about my thoughts on religion. Tho sometimes when people start talking about god in a social situation, if I feel comfortable with them, I will sometimes ask them with a big smile, "To what god are you referring? Man has conjured up so many of them."

I hate em because their too stupid for their own good under the guise of superior intelligence.

Plus, I don't like Godless anything.

And here I was thinking it's because they wear gay spandex and ride their bicycles in the road.

Cooper, I understand where you're coming from and have friends like you. I'm a Christian but I sure ain't a preachy one, in fact I can't stand preachy Christians. I don't trust preachy Christians, they're the ones that have f'd me over the worst. The best examples (to my mind) in my life were some rough men that weren't prototypical bible thumpers. Their words were tough, their breath tainted with whiskey but their actions spoke their faith.

And don't EVER trust a mother-fu-ker that wont cuss.

Sadly, that makes as much sense as anything you've ever said.

Gunner, I learned that early on. I remember helping my pastor when I was young, he knew I loved to hunt and took me on some epic pheasant hunts but this one Saturday I was helping him build the new daycare. Pastor had a few too many beers during the course of the day and managed to get the dozer stuck. The words he said that day I don't remember but the realization that you could be rough and real with your words and still be an example of a great human being still remains. He said to me one day "wherever and whenever you feel like talking to God, God wants to hear from you. It doesn't matter where or how or the words you use, just talk to him. It doesn't matter if you're sitting on the toilet and the only words you know are cuss words, just talk to him. Promise me you'll always talk to God." I promised him and I never forgot his words.

LOL, same here Aces, actions stomp the mortal chit out of the most eloquent professional professed speak!

Yes they do!

I don't know any atheists. Leastwise, not that I know of.

And again I don't hate anyone.

JFC!

Sounds like I would be pleased to meet you - - - and share a good bourbon.

Hanging around with an Atheist just means you have to confine your conversations to just 98% of the topics guys usually talk about.

Only preachy christians i ever ran in to were pastors at the church i chose to go to on an infrequent Sunday morn. Sorry bastids never seemed to chase me down and give me a piece of their mind. I guess the ones i meet were too busy chasing those with money or those more reachable or less recalcitrant than me.

https://youtu.be/f8xPkiQt2ow

Now this is a sorry bastid.

We believe in nothing Lebowski! Nothing!

I've alway been nervous about guys like mao and stalin who saw folks as expendable "for the greater good". Atheists took a pretty big black eye in the twentieth century - - just by body count.

Admittedly, there is a pretty short jump from fear to hate. Jesus preached against both.

I'm not even sure what that means. Lol.

These threads are like Groundhog Day.

Way more entertaining than that!

ROR!!!!!

Fixed it for you.

It sounds like this:

I dislike atheists.

In the little town in Georgia where I lived for twenty years, we had a college professor who was an atheist.
On our city seal, it said "FREEDOM LIBERTY CHRISTIANITY"

That seal was on all police cars and also on the city seal on the big water tank, which loomed 150 feet above the town of Milledgeville.

Well this professor decided that the "Christianity" on the water tower was oppressive to him and he had to put an end ot it. He got the ACLU to join him and he sued in federal court.
Naturally after about a year, he won and the city had to paint the horrid word "Christianity" off of the water tower and all police cars.
Hell, the letters on the tower were so far high that you could barely read it.

I am not a Christian but it didn't bother me a bit to have these words on the water tower. It it part of the heritage of a small southern town.
Why I dislike atheists is, this professor, Dr. Saladin, worked at the college for seven years and said nothing about the water tower.
He waited until he got tenure before he filed the suit.

He knew damn well that had he filed that suit after just five or six years he would have never gotten tenure.
Once he knew his job was safe and secure, he was an aggreived and self righteous atheist and had to set matters straight.

Screw you, Dr. Saladin, and all your fellow atheists.

The only mitigating circumstance was that, ten years before the law suit, Dr. Saladin's stacked blonde fiancee Sondra had moved to town. They were engaged to be married the next year.
I met her a month later in a college play that we were both stars in, and a month after that Sondra moved out of Dr. Saladin's atheist enclave and she moved in with me!
Good God what a body, I can still see that 37-C rack.
We stayed together for a year and a half, I thought I knew it all but Sondra taught me a few tricks in the bedroom.

So, thank you Dr. Saladin you may be a nut but you have good taste in women.

The problem with athiests is that the Bill of Rights is gospel while the Constitution is unfounded gibberish, simply by self-serving fiat.

Finally getting somewhere around here!
Glad you guys have seen the light.

Psalm 139:19-24Amplified Bible (AMP)

19
[a]O that You would kill the wicked, O God;
Go away from me, therefore, men of bloodshed.
20
For they speak against You wickedly,
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21
Do I not hate those who hate You, O Lord?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22
I hate them with perfect and utmost hatred;
They have become my enemies.
23
Search me [thoroughly], O God, and know my heart;
Test me and know my anxious thoughts;
24
And see if there is any wicked or hurtful way in me,
And lead me in the everlasting way.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Milledgeville. A bevy of beautiful southern girls and Thursday nights at the Opera House!

I still remember a BP gas station that was just north of Downtown that had SKS rifles for sale in it for something like $75.

Did you ever run into Sondra? You probably would have remembered if you had.

i have pondered the answer to that question from the very first time i ever heard of it.

and now i know the answer, thanks to AS, the internet, youtube, and the poster to youtube. the dots are beginning to connect in order to answer more and more questions.

the next thing one might know is that there'll be "definitive" proof of the sinking of Atlantis. i can't wait.

The problem with atheists, as christians, is the ones with chips on their shoulder.

There's atheists who like to go about their lives and not bother others or meddle with the affairs of others. There's atheists who see "IN God We Trust" on our money and are OK with that. Then there's the ones that see that as some sort of sleight, and THOSE [bleep] contact the FFRF and ACLU and start lawsuits.

Other than some good natured ribbing on here, I could give a [bleep] about the topic. I kinda almost wish there was a hell for militant atheists to go to for being real [bleep] by filing lawsuits and such. Just as I wish there was a hell for some self-proclaimed christians to go to who can't seem to minds their own business like some of the atheists.

At least in my own experience, once you let go of the shackles of religion, there's a period where you're angry because you were lied to. By society, by your parents, by ones you trusted. So I see where the chip on the shoulder comes from. That was me for a very short time about a decade ago. Then I realized, like any group of people, there's some bad apples in the atheist and christian groups, and it is best to go on and live your life and not worry about.

I think the FFRF gives atheists a really bad name. I think televangelist preachers raking in millions a year and flying around in private jets gives christians a bad name. I think cops shooting a suspect where it turns out to later be unjustified gives cops a bad rep.

Hey man, go live you life. I'll still shidtpost here from time to time just to see how Ringman tries to bend over backwards to explain humans and dinosaurs having sexual relations.

Nailed it.

I don't hate atheists at all. God will deal with them when their time comes.

Atheists think freedom of religion means freedom from religion.

omg! humans having sex with a snake is one thing, but with dinasoars? (i wish i could spell better).

that'd mean or might mean, that humans (post-modern day types), have an old brain of the dinosauric type, and a modern (post-modern?), objective reality type. the two co-existing in one skull. is that what der ringman is proposing?

i can't hardly comprehend what all of this potential hybridization might mean? Dolly the sheep was one thing, but humans blended with dinersoars? (see, i still can't spell correctly).

its looking like we're going to have to divide everyone into two groups. those on the one hand who believe x,y,z; and on the other hand those who believe a,b,c.

i'm quite undecided due to lack of sufficient info to come to a conclusion. don't wanna leave out anything/solution that's possible.

Sharpsman, I am (or at least was) a pilot. And a non-believer. But we've never met, so you could still be right.

I am convinced that religion is a hard-wired genetic attribute of humans. Every culture makes up its own god(s) and its own beliefs. Many of them make up their own books about it. Every single one of them create their gods in their own image, no two of which are remotely alike.

But none of it makes god a reality.

It certainly includes it.

Nailed It!

If you were driving down the road, and someone warned you that a bridge ahead were out, would you assume they did that out of hate?

but you can prove the bridge is out...

Only if you drive up and look. Otherwise you'd have to take the guy's word for it.

That's because they are going to Hell. It's not hate, it's just being truthful, and as we all know, the truth can hurt. But, I respect their right to make that choice...just as I expect them to respect MY right to be a Christian.

Unless I've been down that road before and know there's no bridge on it. Then I know he's just delusional.

If it's "the truth", show us your evidence.

If you can't prove this claim, than it's just an empty threat to try and create converts for your religion.

Just look at the world around you... the plants, the animals, the mountains, the rivers, the seas, the 4 seasons, and tell me that it "just happened". Without a doubt, there is a higher power.

Cherished beliefs (and self-worth and identity) aside, pointing out irrational thinking, inconsistencies, hypocrisy, pseudo-science and fallacious reasoning does not equal hate...

Even Jesus loved the Pnarisees....

I ain't scared of the "boogy man" no more.

And there it is, folks!

The first circular argument from ignorance on this particular thread!

Lol. I'm shocked it took this long.

BTW- What is an atheist? Simply someone that doesn't believe in God, or a God? Can an atheist be someone that believes in a higher undefined power but rejects mainstream religious thought and tenants?

So, you are saying that your god would not accept someone who didn't believe in him/her/it but who still chose to live a good life because they believed it was right, but, would accept someone who did believe in him/her/it and who lived a good life out of some fear of punishment or the promise of reward? Saying "you must believe in me, love me, worship me" etc. sounds very narcissistic, which is a human failing. I think there is far more evidence that we created our gods than the other way around.

It's always the same old drivel.

The only thing "without a doubt" is you have no proof of your fantasies, and no right to force them on anyone else.

I'm not going to argue religion, or as to whether or not there is a God, because I'm not a Bible scholar, I'm just an ordinary Christian. You are free to believe as you so choose. I happen to believe there is indeed a God, and that he sent his son Jesus Christ to come and die on the cross, in order that I (and you too if you wish) might be forgiven of my sins and enter into the Kingdom of God (Heaven), after I die. It's just that simple. If you choose not to believe that, all I can say is that's it's your loss. I would sincerely hope that you would come to the same conclusion I have, and find everlasting life.

What?

You dont believe in higher power?

In other words, you have no evidence, you just believe the fairy tales that makes you feel the most comfortable.

I think i have seen christians discuss the wonders of Christ and none judging by declaring someone is going to hell. It would be interesting to see where a poster said that outside quoting scripture.

cooper57M and Gus,

As atheists, what are your views on ghosts, aliens, and bigfoot?

No, the argument based on faith.

Speaking for myself, I see no evidence supporting a belief in ghosts, bigfoot, nor developed extraterrestrial visitors to earth.

Gus may see things a little different, or waaaay different after a few bowls of weed.

Faith is a circular argument.

antelope sniper,

Thank you for the reply.

lol. just how did you manage to conclude that i am, or might even be an atheist?

to expand or expound on your rather direct question, i'd suggest it's very possible a lot of early day desert tribes, and others didn't know what to call a space alien but God, since the technology of the possible aliens so exceeded anything the goat-herders were aware of. wandering around in the desert from water hole to waterhole, searching for green grass in the interim was no small task. to meet a god, space alien, etc, would certainly shift one's perspective, is what i'm thinking.

but, who really knows for sure?

I'm ok with religious folk believing in whatever god you wish that makes you happy and encourages you to be a decent person that won't kill me or steal my stuff. I promise not to do that to you either, so we are good. I'm also ok if you need a promise of an afterlife to make death easier for you to deal with. I'm ok with the fad to black that it I think it will most very likely be. I'm not ok with people telling me that their loving god will send me to hell just because I don't believe. That's just an attempt of recruiting thru intimidation. It's the ultimate hubris for people to try to speak for a "god". That should be the greatest sin of them all.

Thanks for the reply.

I started reading this thread earlier today and it got me to thinking how differing groups of people, i.e. Christians, atheists view other phenomena like ghosts, aliens, and bigfoot. I know several Christians and I know what they think, but I was curious how another group being a polar opposite would see it?

They are fun make believe stuff, like Santa Claus. If mankind doesn't or can't understand something, they make stuff up.

What do they think?

your assumption is pretty severe, in my interpretation. i've always thought that Jesus was/is the greatest teacher to ever incarnate on the face of the earth. not to say there weren't and haven't been other Great Teachers as well. does one have to believe in the mystical side of Christ, in order to be saved? yeah? what about those folks who wish to practice the Teachings that Jesus laid down? are they not xtians? apparently not in your book. but, that's ok. believe what you wish, and carry-on.

Thank you for replying.

Most of the Christians I talked to felt the same way. I guess some Christians and atheists would find some common ground on this issue.

Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. My point is many people whether Christian or atheist won't believe in something they can't feel, see, or touch. It's not a judgement just an observation.

I have common ground with many Christians, beginning with ABC......anybody but clinton.

My wife and I raised our three son's independent, to be their choice when they had the mind to choose. I was raised devout Catholic in an Italian immigrant family so the routine is clear. My wife was raised a mid-western Protestant in SoCal. Both of us were equally turned off by the "crammed down our throats" environment. So we married Protestant in respect of her grandparents. My side of the family CGAF at this point. She was happy, I was happy. Besides, it was her Father's dime.

So now, many years later, my three sons have gone astray. The eldest, 26, reads and tries to live by Buddha. The middle one, well he would rather grill a tri-tip and pour down a MGD than even think about religion. The youngest, an 18 year old freshman at A&M, is there with his high school sweetheart. They, together, are trying to find a church and a like community. When he left our house he had zero of a view and, all told, didn't care to get "it". I suspect he will find what he and she want in religion and will be fine. My wife and I? Well we continue as we have. She knows my view and I know hers. We don't talk about it. In the end it all has seemed to have sorted itself.

I am ABC too.

And gets eternal salvation. For every positive there is a negative. The negative of proof is faith.

Evolutionists use the belief in evolution as their starting point. That is circular also. The thing about evolution is one has to start with nothing and get something. The creationists start with Infinite Intelligent Energy we call God. One follows the basic concept of science, cause and effect, and the other does not. Both are circular but one is reasonable.

We more or less know what you believe, why don't you tell us why you believe it?

Humans are created in God's Image. We get our narcissism from Him. He is the Biggest Narcissist. His ego is the biggest. And He's in charge.

I begin with, "I think, there for I am". That is along way from beginning with The Theory of Evolution.

There no equivalence between the Skeptic and those who hold a belief system in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The bolden is a perfect example of the evolutionist.

Too improper I suppose.

Live and let live.

Thats good enough for me.

Literally, everything in your post is wrong...literally.

From the DSM-5:

A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite evidence disproving it that is stronger than any evidence supporting it. It is distinct from an erroneous belief caused by incomplete information (misconception or misunderstanding), deficient memory (confabulation) or incorrect perception (illusion). The psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers proposed 3 criteria for delusional beliefs in 1913: certainty (the belief is held with absolute conviction), incorrigibility (the belief cannot be changed with any proof to the contrary) and impossibility or falsity (the belief cannot be true) (Jaspers, 1967). Delusions are associated with a variety of mental and neurological disorders, but are of diagnostic importance in the psychotic disorders.

So...... Atheists are the only ones who are not delusional?

The vast majority of humans believe in a Higher Power and most claim to recieve some PRESENT benefits from their beliefs. But you say they are deluded.

You offer no proof that they are deluded, but you are certain that they are.

Because YOU do not believe in a Higher Power.

I can't see where you have a very persuasive argument.

So then you don't accept the basic concept of science is cause and effect? How can one conduct experiments without it?

Those are your words, not mine.

All I did was post the definition.

This describes classic evolutionism!

That's intellectual cowardice on your part. Why else would you post the definition?

Because the basis of science is not cause and effect.

It's observation.

Talk about a hanging curveball.....w e will see if Ringman can blast it out of the park.

hippie atheists....

Oh well. I tried a blended, factual and realist view.

Yeah... after you posted this :



Now you try to weasel out.

Emotions are higher it seems. Too funny given, well, never mind...

As I've said before not all Christians/religions/religious beliefs are equal.

I don't believe I've ever heard you claim the earth is less then 10,000 years old, and you seen to have a definition of god that does not manifest outside one's mind. So on balance, how well do you believe your belief stacks up against that definition?

Pretty simple, really. The creator of cause and effect is above it.

So now you are on to "Special Pleading".

Atheists are imposing their religion on everyone else by attacking any evidence of religion in the public square.

OK, nuts azz abroad...

He manifests Himself in His Creation. That extends well beyond my mind.

He communicates with me in my mind..... but that's just one man's experience. He might write sky messages for the next guy as far as I know.

As far as a 6000 year old earth.... that seems highly unlikely to me based on the relatively short span of time covered by written history. The earliest writers seem to have been looking at basically the same earth we see. Besides, the only argument for the earth being 6000 Y O seems to come from a literal reading of the O T .... a method I disagree with.

Yep. The Lord often spoke in spiritual terms.

He also spoke physically of behemoths roaming the earth ages ago.

So who told us of the dinosaurs and mastadons 200 years ago, other than Him, in scripture.

From what I have read on here, it is the atheists that attack Christians for believing as they do, not the other way around. I don't believe in forcing my views upon anyone, I'll just tell you how I see things, and go from there. But, instead of disagreeing, the atheists have to try and pick a fight. Sometimes, I think they're just jealous that Christians are going to have everlasting life, and they are not. However, they could, it's their choice.

I don't hate atheists, I think they are
adolescents trying to be a different breed of cat, or they have been disappointed by God in some way and are carrying a resentment.

Jim

If someone claims to have something you don't have, it's a very human reaction to deny that they have it.

And Atheist are - above all else - humans. Humanity is their god.

That smug, holier than thou attitude is what gets under atheist's skin.

It's like some bratty kid prancing around his friends shouting "I know something you don't know!". He shouldn't be surprised when he gets bopped in the mouth.

For the record I'm not atheist. I was, but the spirit of an extraterrestrial sasquatch came to me in a dream and showed me the light. I'm satanist now.

Yes, or deny they are jealous of your huge fish or bull elk.

Maybe some have and hate the feeling that they have been rejected.

I know some who were slighted or treated badly by people who professed to be "christians"- people who truly took the name of the Lord in vain.

My wife tells me, "Don't do business with Christians if you don't want to get screwed," and she is serious.

That depends upon the definition and context of faith.
Christian faith is based upon being fully persuaded to affirm the truth having examined the facts of the case and having come to a conclusion. The evidence in the "court-room" is overwhelming- the conclusion is faith. An affirmation of the truth having been persuaded.

Faith also includes trust in a person, (God) once you have gotten to know Him.

Your definition of faith is just your (unknowing) straw man forced off on your antagonists in this debate; it is not rooted in any Christian creed or confession or systematic theology.

Once again; John Locke, "The Reasonableness of Christianity"

Or
http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Text.Only/pdfs/The_Coming_Prince_Text.pdf

Sir Robert Anderson proves the precise fulfillment of the Daniel 9 prophecy as to the time of the Hebrew Messiah "cut off but not for Himself". Just prior to the destruction of the Temple. Which is exactly what happened but predicted by a space of over 400 years.

Undeniable proof that God exists and has revealed Himself via the Hebrew prophets and the Lord Jesus Christ.

And much more from Isaiah; starting with chapter 53

But if Christ Himself manifested and healed on the wrong day or the wrong person you would still not be persuaded.

There again you have your example. There was no reason for this attack against the Christian belief in God.

The next time you meet someone, try insulting their wife in the worst way you can think of and see how much good will you receive from them after that.If anything, I have witnessed Christians having remarkable restraint in their conversations with atheists on this forum,doing their best to ignore insults against what they hold most dear. They do this for only one reason, hoping that be some grace a word they say may ring true and save a person from destruction.

when you try to spoon feed a grown man something he don't want, don't get butthurt when he spits it back on ya.

I would assume that if he didn't want to talk about it,he would just refrain from joining in the conversation. It's not polite to ask for a bite and then spit it in someone's face because you didn't like it.

if you don't want your conversation 'joined' don't start it on a public hunting/outdoor forum.

those 'asking for a bite' can easily do it via PM.

I never said I didn't want anyone to join a conversation.I simply said that it isn't polite to insult the people you are having the conversation with.I guess that's hard for you to understand.

Someone mentioned earlier that all atheists are going to hell.

That does not seem very polite.

It's not polite. I'm a Christian but I've never thought telling someone they were going to hell was a good way to introduce them to God.

I have to agree with your wife. Every bad business deal I've ever had was with fine upstanding Christians including one preacher. Also don't ever take a Baptist fishing with you because they'll drink all your beer.

Thats a good way to think about it RH Clark.

When I was a kid I decided to try going to on of those non-denominational youth groups.

It was okay, but I was never very good at it.

When I told one of the "leaders" that I was going to go back to the Catholic church school for the next year because it was "confirmation" year he told me that Catholics and confirmation was not "christian".

I never viewed organized religion the same after that.

There was too much "us vs. them".

Religion is ruined by the people most times.

I took another look at the subject line.

Why does everyone hate atheists?

If everyone hates atheists I guess I am a nobody. There are a bunch of people I really like and would consider friends who donot believe as I do. Some are here at the Fire and others who are not.

My vegetarian friend in Denmark is a communist AND an atheist!

I completely agree with you about the "us vs. them" attitude. All too often we want to focus on our minor differences.

I figured she was the boss.

Ok, just kidding AS. I too watch them like a hawk. There are lots of lowlifes who sit near the front and go to church not to worship or have fellowship, but to get business. He WILL seperate
the wheat from the chaff. I feel for anyone who spends eternity with snakes, but a real believer will not be harmed by their poison in the long run.

PS. I dont hate athiests, other than Hitlary and Zero, and i dont hate those snakes because of their unbelief in Jesus.

eactly, it happens all the time. folks will fight over details at the .17 decimal point level, when in fact they agree on all of the essentially important matters & issues. it's just the way we humans are wired. we're always trying to differentiate things on the margins, while never looking at the commonalities. for instance, one commonality is that we all breathe oxygen, but people will argue over whether 10 deep breaths is sufficient, or is 20 better.

Thank her for me. I really like being called a cheat by someone who has never meet me or had any dealings with me. It shows Christ's love shines through her to fellow believers.

I had intended to try to get together 2ith you on my next trip your way but seeing how she feels about me I will just keep on driving.

Maybe we should all just get along, right, and be happy with the fact the muzzies are helped along in their efforts to come get us, even by some churches which profess to believe in Jesus Christ but reject His warnings not to let the heathens into our nation for their sons to mingle with our daughters nor their daughters to mingle with our sons, Gus.

They want us to not only take in the Trojan horse, but let them in without the horse.

So you can poison the well at the orphans home and still get to heaven if you say sorry to God?

But a gay person who love's their family, works hard and is kind to their fellow man is going to hell?

Thats a pretty much the reason I dont go to church anymore.

Any church that wont take someone in who is looking to be closer to god and gain fellowship with man is not worth going to or being a member of.

I don't think Christians should water anything down. It's more about how you speak the truth, the manner in which it is presented. Read the gospels. You never see Jesus going someplace and telling everyone they are Going to Hell if they don't bow down and worship him.

I agree. I would not have anything to do with a church that had money to build a big fancy building and used that money to build instead of giving it to those in real need.

[b][/b]

I agree and think you have just been going to the wrong churches. It's hard for me to think you couldn't find what I have,where you are.

From my Christian viewpoint,division is a tool of the enemy and if we could recognize it as such,it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

I was baptized Catholic, and come from a long line of Catholics marrying Presbyterians.

My wife is Anglican, but since there is no Anglican church here, she goes to the Presbyterian.

I dont anymore, but the wife and kids do. Which suits me fine.

I dont have anything against the local churches, in fact they have started doing more stuff together, like multi denominational Christmas masses. That also suits me fine.

In this stage of my life, I find it easier to be spiritual out here on my land, not in a church surrounded by people I dont like to spend time with.

I am not an athiest, but will not tolerate shunning people for not believing exactly what some group of people believe.

Tolerance and compassion only for people who live, look, and think like us is something that bothers the crap out of me, and wont be part of a group that acts that way.

I am not a bible scholar, but I just can believe that God or Jesus or who ever would want the people in a church to run the gays or other groups out into the cold in the name of "religion".

I get by nicely out here on the barren prairie by trying to live by the golden rule.

the details are fuzzy, but didn't ol moses marry a daughter of an egyptian priest?

it does seem like the issue of foreign gods, and strange foreign women have been clouding the picture nearly forever. it's difficult to keep things pure. salame could probably dance, but was she worthy?

on the subject of homosexuality, my position is evolving, like the big-finned american cars of the late 50's have evolved to the japanese made aerodynamic cars of the post-modern era. the thinking goes like this: back in the day, every man & woman was needed to be a successful breeder of new or additional children. the earth was large, unconquered, and the human population was under threat of being wiped out due to the few numbers of humans and the level of technology available to them. nowadays, we have shot far passed those issues, risks, and concerns. now overpopulation is the wolf that is stalking us, and knocking on the door. we humans can afford for a certain element or sub-element to not to have to breed and raise kids to sustain the population. we've reached and crossed over that threshold. so, homo's have a service of value to offer. they are not contributing to the over-population of the earth.

we're not in kansas anymore.

HIllary and Zero both claim to be Christians.

I think, like me, it's their Marxism you hate.

I didn't like church.
It was full of sinners.

The worst ambassador of a belief system, is usually the average practitioner.

Got a coworker, atheist, who posts lots of memes on social media...........not in support of his view, but in the degradation of opposing views.

You'd think one so enlightened would maybe take the high road.

I do find it funny, how those in support for or against religion, on social media...........who post such nonsense..........are almost always those of past substance abuse and/or were never good students.

Sometimes it's OK to fault the message coming from certain messengers.

obama is probably a true blue marxist, possibly at least.

hillary is a snake in the grass. her family were far-right republicans. she married into the clinton clan. like trump, she a true capitalist. unfortunately her political stripes requires her to sell socialism to allow for the potential of continued political success. she would enslave her own grandmother to ensure success of the clinton foundation and her other enterprises. clinton is self-serving, and would allow both capitalism and socialism to wither on the vine if it profited her personally. she doesn't care about this country, only herself.

Scott, I worked customer disputes at a large brokerage firm for several years. Anytime someone brought up their religion during a dispute, they would attempt to leverage it for money. Not once did I ever hear, "because I'm a good Christian I will pay what I owe". It was always, I'm a good (insert religion, or ethnicity here), so you should give me money.

I would amend Ringman's statement (after all, he just told everyone to never do business with him!) to I'd be very caution about doing business with anyone who claimed their religion was a reason I should do business with them.

Of course, that's a minority of Christian. Most Christians I do business with convinced me they have the best product at the best price, and never mention their religion.

I have no problem with "fishers of men".
But when they throw a big crankbait out first thing........

Just because someone is correct on a single question, that does not mean they are "enlightened".

If one puts the religious stuff out there on advertising/other..........kinda like going to a used car salesman with "honest" in his store name.

No thanks.

Guy makes custom recurves. Puts Biblical quotes on them.
Trade show, guy I knew was helping that booth, asked me to shoot a couple of demo rigs.

Shot them very well, with owner watching.
He was a total d*ck about it.

I just advertised his stuff with a darn good run, and he's all p*ssy about it?

Proly because I had a Blackwidow shirt on.

Fugg 'em.

Got no problem with the Book. Just the moron that supposedly champions it on his wares.

But like my mom always said............church is for sinners. Some are struggling to find their way, others think they have arrived. Some are smart. Most are stupid.

Some A holes believe. Some don't.
I personally don't care what people believe, but if they subscribe to a certain faith.....I kinda expect them to follow it.
The corruption for temporary comfort......p*sses me off.

If one takes issue with a belief system, fine...........start your own.

Don't jack with the other one.

Gus,

This issue homosexuality is a question of economics, When you have limited resources and can only feed so many people, it becomes more important to examine the contribution of each individual and how it affect the survival of the civilization. In parts of ancient Greece, at least in Sparta, babies with deformities we "exposed", or left on a mountain top to die. Now, we spend millions of dollars to save them.

Today the most productive farmers in history, the American farmer, although making up only 2% of our population, produce enough food to feed our country two and and have time. This is a big difference between now and when the Bible was written. Today feeding a deadbeat is not tantamount to death for a producing citizen, so we give the dead beats more leeway.

Yes, Gus, times have changed over the past few thousand years.

the true purists who walk among us are clamoring for a "better" system. and well it should be.

but unfortunately the way it is now is probably as good as it gets.

an old governor down here, while his state prisons were under federal court orders, remarked that the problem with the prison system was that they needed to attract a higher quality inmate.

Jim,

A couple of my in-laws got sucked in by one of the "shunning" Millerite churches. The things I dislike about it the most is they tell the wife not to take her medication (God will heal here), and they've separated him from the family. So he's lost an important support mechanism, and he won't come hunting and fishing with us anymore.

a friend of a friend has a republic of south africa citizen who is his fiance. she travels to our part of ne georgia fairly frequently. when she arrives, she wants to spend a bit of her time shopping locally. levi jeans in RSA could run 200-300 $ per pair. but, according to her, a sample of one, she indicates food prices overall are much lower there (RSA) than here in the USA. i do know our farmers are super efficient. they have to be to compete and survive. but, the propaganda i've heard over the years is that american food is among or the cheapest in the world. maybe the sample of one depicted here is an inaccurate (non-representative) sample.

RH,

Your example is not valid.

This is religious thread with a religious reference in the title. This is not the reloading forum, so your accusation does not hold.

If someone walks up to you and ask you to suck their dick, you would be justified in your offence on the street, but not in a gay bar.

All Justin did was take your belief system and plug in a different fictitious creature. In a thread titled "Why does everyone hate atheist", you should expect example of how your reasoning fails.

Instead of turning into a snowflake, how about countering with a logical argument demonstrating why his example is not valid?

As you know those who tout their perfection generally do so to hide their flaws. Ringman's has previously stated he does not sin. If that is so then good for mum but when his wife makes statements like the one he posted then she is bearing false witness about those she does not know making g me wonder if Ringman's is unevenly yoked.

I am not perfect in any way and even if I were I would never have the nerve to say I do not sin.

The whole thing makes me feel ill. Think I will lave this subject alone.

If Christians decided to "water down nothing" and all begin preaching Young Earth Creationisms, women be silent, and death to gays, witches, etc...the pews would empty quickly, and there would be a lot of empty Churches re-purposed as night clubs.

Atheism is not a religion, and if your so called evidence is strong enough to withstand scrutiny it shouldn't matter. But what you call evidence is very weak, so instead of providing better, stronger evidence, you complain.

How about instead of complaining, you tell us what you believe, why you believe it, and present your evidence for scrutiny?

I don't think Christians should water anything down. It's more about how you speak the truth, the manner in which it is presented. Read the gospels. You never see Jesus going someplace and telling everyone they are Going to Hell if they don't bow down and worship him.[/quote]

If Christians decided to "water down nothing" and all begin preaching Young Earth Creationisms, women be silent, and death to gays, witches, etc...the pews would empty quickly, and there would be a lot of empty Churches re-purposed as night clubs. [/quote]

at least for a spell. then a re-vitalization or rebirth, or re-purposing "might" emerge. as the muslim interlopers gain strength in numbers and converts, they might make attempts to buy, rent or lease the abandoned facilities to convert to locations of "muslim-type" worship opportunities (for the masses).

on the other hand, if night clubs bring in more revenue than mosques, then the mosques will have a more difficult time expanding their locations.

Jim,

I'll take this as you concession that you have no substantial evidence supporting your faith. Most people become Christian because they are born into Christian families. Many of those families tell their kids they can only be good if they are Christian, and they will suffer greatly if they are not, so the kids become Christian without any deeper thought.

Yea, you are Christian, but you see no reason people unfairly just because they are different, mostly want to be left alone, and would rather spend you Sunday morning hunting, then listening to some preacher. I think this describes a lot of "Christians".

At a function level, many Christians act more in as modified humanist then they realize (there's some stupid lefty stuff in the Humanist Manifesto, that really has no place it in, and I would delete). If someone is in need, they don't sit around and pray, they get up and do something. In this world, few Campfire Christians really wait around for God to solve their problems, they work to fix it themselves, and improve things for others were they can.....kind of like an atheist would...

Scott,

Sorry to hear some of your fellow Christians are making you ill. Trying to watch them jump through all those hoops can really make one dizzy...

it's Thanksgiving, yet again. and i don't have a turkey in the house. so, please god, give me the strength, courage, energy, and desire to go procure a turkey for our family's Thanksgiving Dinner. ..and if i come into two turkeys, let me have them both so i can share one with my neighbor..... it appears those turkeys are coming under the gun.

an extraterrestrial sasquatch is not possible. it's impossible. sasquatch was the original humans. they were impacted by the extraterrestrials, such as the tall, blonde, blue-eyed Pleadians, and were upgraded through GMO, to become the rank & file commuters on the American highways driving Japanese cars.

i can't imagine why anyone would invest time, effort, and interest in being a Satanist. what would be the payoff? i mean, true self serving souls could choose wisely and receive an infinity of paradise for a mere 80 years plus or minus served down here on the Earth. just get a job, go to work, pay your taxes, worship at the right church, and receive a near automatic payout or payback. good decisioning is hard to beat.

Thread Title: Why does everyone hate atheists?
Really?? Is atheism a religion? If so, how so?

Atheists and Christians are more alike than different. Over the course of human history there have been many, many thousands of religions and the number of gods/deities humans have worshiped is estimated to be in the millions. The only difference between us is that I don't believe in 1 more of all those gods than you.

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

The god one worships is typically not a matter of choice but of what country/culture/tribe etc that you were born into. If there really is one true god, that wants all of us to recognize and worship him/her/it, why didn't he/she/it make its presence known to all people all over the world all at the same time? Why give the word to only one chosen people,in one small region of the world and then rely on word of mouth, over many centuries, to spread the word? If you believe that it all started with Adam and Eve, why did some of their descendants keep the knowledge of one god while other descendants found the need to create thousands of other religions, some with as many as 1,000 deities? Why don't their histories contain stories of an Adam and an Eve? The only logical conclusion one can come to, after giving it any thought, is that man has created many gods over the years, most in man's own image, to help explain things that he couldn't yet understand and to establish order and control behavior.

Atheists are the ultimate hypocrites. They condemn every other religion, especially Christian, while denying that their fer ventless held beliefs are a religion. They feel their religious views should supersede the majority, no prayer in school or Christmas displays in town squares.

of course atheists and christians & others are more alike than different. it's not something to concede, but to accept and to recognize as true. we all walk on the surface of a dense planet, and move around in the atmosphere. it's pretty plain to see for objective observers.

the best mankind can do at any point in the development of the human condition is to define god using the best possible understanding we possess at the time, as individuals. we are individuals afterall, moving forward as a population or group. kinda like a flock of blackbirds over a field that has just been harvested??

if i believed for a moment that we knew where we came from, i'd be shouting it from the house tops. but, i don't know and don't claim to either. "God" as a concept, is a kind of a catchall. better to have one to capture all the detritus and put in one place or container rather than allow it to float around polluting everything else.

humans on the earth are quite a challenge to fully understand, and define, aren't we? we moved from caveman, to sunlit structures, to the building of big cities, and now we're moving on to the moon, mars, and beyond. we can't define race, and we can't even define the basis of a human being. we don't have a clue.

What "religion" does not have a god? Atheism is just a thought held by those who have examined the concept of religions and rejected them just as you have rejected the other many thousands of religions that exist or has existed. If every other one of the thousands of religions that existed is wrong or false EXCEPT yours, then maybe, just maybe, yours is too. Some of us just see the pattern and say if all the other religions that existed were false, then the odds are good that yours is too.

if everyone occupying the various seats at the RoundTable can stay away from cheap sorcerer's tricks, the conversation can continue to advance productively. no doubt.

He's dead Jim.

real freedom for the rank & file is to be able to move smoothly in the traces. now, that's what freedom is.

For the record I'm not atheist. I was, but the spirit of an extraterrestrial sasquatch came to me in a dream and showed me the light. I'm satanist now. [/quote]

There again you have your example. There was no reason for this attack against the Christian belief in God.

The next time you meet someone, try insulting their wife in the worst way you can think of and see how much good will you receive from them after that.If anything, I have witnessed Christians having remarkable restraint in their conversations with atheists on this forum,doing their best to ignore insults against what they hold most dear. They do this for only one reason, hoping that be some grace a word they say may ring true and save a person from destruction. [/quote]

RH,

Your example is not valid.

This is religious thread with a religious reference in the title. This is not the reloading forum, so your accusation does not hold.

If someone walks up to you and ask you to suck their dick, you would be justified in your offence on the street, but not in a gay bar.

All Justin did was take your belief system and plug in a different fictitious creature. In a thread titled "Why does everyone hate atheist", you should expect example of how your reasoning fails.

Instead of turning into a snowflake, how about countering with a logical argument demonstrating why his example is not valid? [/quote]






Yes, it's a religious thread and anyone with any sense at all knows that the post in question was worded with the intention to offend. If I know you suck dicks and ask you to suck one that may not offend you. If you know I respect God and you intentionally refer to God in a manner you know will be offensive to me,that's something entirely different.

I think there is a huge difference between being an atheist and being an anti-theist.

As far as I know, an atheist is someone who does not believe in god, gods or whatnot.

An anti-theist is one who tries to condemn or convince of the folly of those people who do believe in god, gods, or whatnot.

Christopher Hitchens was a great example of an anti-theist.

Scott F,



I don't know if I can make this clear enough but I will try. You are a liar!

antelope_sniper,



I agree with this presentation of the Truth. I've been a Christian for more than forty years and only know of one church that actually preached the Whole Gospel. There were about fifty members.

The biggest reason I am a Christian is the historical life, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.

Once I was watching a TV program about history; not religious history. There was a panel of five. None were Christian. At least one was from Russia. The Russian tried to say that Jesus was a myth. The other four non-Christians berated the Russian so much the person didn't add anymore to the discussion.

For those who don't know I highly recommend looking into Simon Greenleaf. Some moderns try to debunk him. But then nothing new here, they don't accept America's true history also.

God doesn't!

He has a surprise for 'em!!

I believe in God. I am christian. I choose to error on the side of caution, if I am right I go to heaven, if I am wrong...............nothing. If you don't believe in God and you are right then.........nothing.............but if you don't beleive in God and your wrong..............your toast. I could not care less what you believe, the difference is that atheist do care if you believe. They hate you, belittle you, berate you, attack your beliefs and your traditions etc. The reason I don't like atheists is they don't know how to mind their own f@*#%cking business.....................So I personaly hope they are wrong, and if they are right it won't matter anyway.

AS, you keep on harping about proof, yet you have no proof God doesnt exist. A lot happens in this world that is contemplated, thought and expected without physical proof.

If I were He, I would not want to provide proof of my existence to all either. Does one as a parent have to constantly prove to a child they are loved by giving them proofs? Should a child not trust in and obey a parent out of faith?

A rich man can get plenty of companionship if he will part with the proof of his wealth. Getting love by giving proof is another matter.

Why should He give you proof so He can then give you everlasting life when you wouldnt have faith in Him. You would only give Him love if He paid you with proof. Why would He want anyone like that in Heaven.

You told us Tyre was not destroyed. You are wrong. He isn't. And, you are wrong on other things as well, as you shall see.
Your head will bow and your knee will bend. It is written. All of you is written about, from stiff necked to your unbelief. He has, and will, lay men low much greater than you would ever hope to be, nations and mountains also.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/tyre_in_prophecy.htm

http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=13&article=1790

If you believe, and expect to convince others, then the burden of proof is on you.

The evidence shows religion is man made fantasy.

I dont want to convince others. I merely witness, and admittedly not so well at times.

It wouldnt matter if i did miracles and said they were by God. Jesus did and they crucified him, preferring to keep their sin and power structure, much as most in government now do.

It's no skin off my back. I just tell of Him as commanded to do.

An Ancient Atheist on The Story of Paul

Well, son, its a bad deal. I dont hang around Paul anymore since the accident. He used to be a good old boy, raping, killing and pillaging those theiving christians. Goofy bastids wanted no more taxation than 10%. They said that was all God asked for. Anybody knows our country couldnt make it on 10%.

Well, one night on the road to Damascus to visit a guys wife while he was off to war, he evidently drank a little too much muzzy mash from camel fodder.

Yeah, he must have fell off his ass and hit his head on a rock. He said he was hit by a bright, blinding flash of light and couldnt see crap for a while. Then, he started hearing voices. He said it sounded to him like God was talking to him and telling him he was going to hell if he didnt change his ways. Can you imagine something so idiotic. Go to hell for killing theives?

Yeah, go figure. That rock to the head must have made him crazy cause the next thing you know, he's running around with this Jesus nut job who says hes the son of God and he came out of a freaking virgin. Yeah, you know Paul,he believed that crap too, I guess.

Bunch of folks agreed with Paul that the Jesus freak did some miracles but I AINT BELIEVING ANY OF THAT CRAP. If it was true, how come he didnt bring him over here and get him to help me out.

Yeah son. I guess that rock sure messed old Paul up. That Jesus freak even got a bunch of other guys to go around with them spreading that crap around. One was once a fisherman. They turned him stone cold worthless.

Darn it Dad, thats too bad. Uncle Paul used to have some really great stories to tell before he hit his head on that rock.

Dad, did those other guys get hit in the head with a rock too?

I was through posting on this subject until I read this. You've hit the nail on the head, except for one small thing.....it's Christians they come after more so than the other religions. I do not believe in cramming my religious views down anyone's throat. Typically, that does more damage than it does good. But, I also do not believe in sugar coating it either. Things are what they are, and if it offends an atheist because I tell them that they are going to end up in Hell, then so be it. They do many things that offend me, but I try not to make an issue out of it.

Many of them say christians are as dangerous as religious extremists, but they dont really fear us as they do muzzies, or well, perhaps they are interested in the virgins.

It's statements like that that are offensive since you've arrogantly judged another on your belief which can't be proven.

I love these threads.

Where do you people live where there are squadrons of atheists beating down your doors to tell you that religion is silly?

Are you not physically imposing enough to ward off such attention?

Granted, I live in a weird place, but smack between two reservations is not where I would expect the most tolerant people in the US to reside. Guess it is.

The only people that have ever tried to clobber me with knowledge have been Christians.

Persecution!!!!

it was bound to come to this, what with the Nation's walls being down for so long.

either the borderlines go back up, or the current process will continue on. some will be winners & some will be losers.

Not really - how could it be? - his earlier post apparently indicates that Antelope Sniper views atheism as a religion. (or was it Snyper? Nah !)

it's the Greens that views environmentalism as a religion. i don't "think" ol Antelope man is a Greenie.

like snakes, religions seems to proliferate from every nook & cranny.

What's with all the religion posts lately?

Just trolls or is it more than that?

Evidence?

Atheists such as AS love to debate the Bible and Christianity; but only on their terms. They will say that they only “look at the evidence.” But this is not true at all. AS for one, will only consider science based data and conclusions. He limits the “set of data” to only what he is comfortable with. In his mind, there is no such thing as “spirit.” If he can’t see it and touch it, then it must be excluded from the discussion and all references to “spirit” or the spiritual world is dismissed as some sort of mass delusion. Oddly, I think he is looking for physical evidence of a spiritual world.

The fact is, he is excluding the very thing that makes Christianity unique. God communicates directly with the individual person. We know and even AS will probably acknowledge it, God, if He is there, is “spirit.” There is indeed a whole world of beings and happenings out there that we see very little of and the likes of AS will deny exists.

AS likes to debate “god” but will deny that a spirit being could even exist. An empty data set for him.

But think about this empty set of data; a null set if you will. We as Christians have already had God “prove Himself to us.” When we look we see two sets of data; physical and spiritual. We have two rich sets of data. AS only has one. I will testify that God has proven Himself to me through the conviction and witness of the Holy Spirit. This God showing Himself to me. I have the “proof” that AS has been unable to apprehend.

Btw, I look at the world and see evidence of a Creator. Many people do. AS will dismiss this and say that this is not evidence for the existence of God. He is flat wrong here but cannot see it.

Some will allege that “God has not met his burden of proof.” God does not have a burden of proof. It seems as if atheists think they may find some defense on judgment day by saying to God: “Well, you didn’t make yourself sufficiently known to me so you should not sit in judgment of me. God, it’s your fault not mine.” Good luck with that.

Life is better having two sets of data. Both rich and full.

But, God is a spiritual being. A spiritual being is a non-corporeal being. This is usually in context of a spirit being that can somehow affect human life and the human condition. God being a “spirit” desired to show more about Himself and sent Jesus, God in corporeal form, to more effectively reveal Himself to us. Pretty cool.

Also, we have to remember that it is not our job to force understanding upon atheists. That task belongs to the Holy Spirit. Our job is to present and to witness as to what has happened to us and as to what we have experienced.

AS fits the scriptural definition of a fool. He's a good one at that. He's not even honest enough to address the thing I repeatedly told him on these Christianity subjects, that "one day we will see who's right, won't we?"

Just put the dude on ignore like I did a long time ago. He's not worth the effort.

Fantastic post TF49! Well said.

Are only christians allowed in your heaven? No Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims? What was the fate of those who lived in areas of the world who died before "the word" got to them? Why would god put these people on the planet with no shot of getting into heaven? What is/was their purpose; just to take up space? If god is all powerful and all good things come from god, are those people who have bad things happen forsaken in some way? What was your god's plan when he created the brain eating amoeba? Was that a loving thing?? If there is a god, he's really screwing around with us. What's the purpose of the Zika virus? Does he think we're all getting too smart so he needs to create a bunch of small-headed babies? All you people who "talk" to god. Ask him about that.

Are you mad at a God who exists or frustrated that no god exists to deal with the wrong, sin and death in the world?

Answer my questions first.

There are actually answers for every question you ask in the Bible. I'm not going to write a long drawn out answer siting verses to support it. I'm just going to tell you the answers as I understand them from my own study .

As far as who gets into Heaven,I believe God has always revealed himself to men. God judges who goes and who doesn't and all I know for sure is that the judgement will be just. There is a scripture in Romans that basically says that when the people who don't know God(as in never having been introduced to him) follow the law of God because they see it as the right thing to do, they have become a law unto themselves.I take that to mean that God will judge them by their hearts. Personally I believe that many have trusted in God( which is what is necessary for salvation) who never knew the Bible or the names of God referred to in that book.

Bad things happen to good people because we live in a fallen world infected by sin.God does and has delivered,rescued,and generally helped his people. Why everyone who says they are a Christian isn't always rescued from bad things is a very complicated question. Some of it has to do with faith and some with free will. Without writing a book on it I will only say it's never God's fault or choice that his children are destroyed.

All the sickness,disease,brain eating amoeba and such come because the curse of sin. God doesn't just destroy all bad things because God doesn't control the earth. God gave dominion and authority of the earth over to men. Anything that God does in the earth is done through men.

So man created the Zika virus? Your god had nothing to do with it. Maybe it was a genetic mutation, you know, like what happened thru evolution. Seems like you religious types say that god is in control and then he's not in control. None of it makes any sense cause there is no sense to this whole concept of a god or religion. Don't point to the bible with answers, the bible was written by a bunch of men. I want those of you who "talk to god" to get the answers directly. None of this, it's in the bible stuff.

To no one in particular: It must be very comfortable indeed to live in a box where ALL your questions are answered for you....

You bring up some questions which have been answered many times. Part of your question starts with a wrong premise, though.

The Bible does not present a totally loving God. Some here, both Christians and non-Christians, try to deny what God's Word teaches. Here's a little tid-bit about God. He says, "If a calamity comes on a city He did it." It didn't start in Amos. It started in Genesis. God told Eve, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth." There had to be some pain in order to multiply it. To Adam God informed him He was going to bring a curse on the universe and change the DNA of some plants so they would produce thorns and thistles.

God created the genome of all plants and animals. He also, due to His curse, caused genetic mutations. Consequently we are no longer immune to poison oak, poison ivy, and poison sumac; and in some cases even grass, nuts, and glutin. Among the mutations are all the things you mention. Some microbes used to be beneficial. In a perfect world they still would be. But because both our and their mutations it just ain't so.

If one reads the story of Moses one discovers over and over God says (I paraphrase), "I will hardened Pharaoh's heart and bring my plagues on him and his nation."

God tells us He brought in the Law of Moses that sin might increase. He says there are three groups of people. There are the saved believers and......

2 Thessalonians 2:7-9
"the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"

And,
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding (tricky) influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."

And,
Romans 11:14-18
"What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.' So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

Romans 11:21-22
"does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?"

Again, not interested in what the men wrote the bible has to say. I want to hear from you guys who talk directly to god to get the current take on things.

Also, not impressed with a religion that relies on threats and intimidation. The guys who wrote the bible should have just stuck with the positive messages, it plays better for a lot of people. How many times was the bible translated, edited etc.? Wasn't the Koran written after the bible? Why don't you consider that to be the sequel? Their are religions based on Book of Mormon and Dianetics too. So??

No you don't. You aren't interested in anything God has to say,or anything Christians have to say. You only want to try to validate your position.

My God didn't create the Zika virus,your god did.

So you're saying evolution is more powerful than your god. Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Soon I'll have you believing in Science. Baby steps.

Exactly.....good comeback. I stated in a previous post that I believe that our success or failure in life is based upon the choices we make. Make good ones, and you'll probably have a good life. Make bad ones, and your life will most likely not be very good. God offers us a choice.....follow Him, and accept His son Jesus as our Savior, and we will have everlasting life after we leave this earth in Heaven. Reject him, and we spend Eternity in Hell. That should offend no one.....it's just the way it is, and more importantly, He doesn't twist anyone's arm trying to get them to follow Him. I don't think anyone, be they a Christian or an atheist, has to prove anything to the other. It's like coming to a fork in the road, one leads Home, and other doesn't. While I would hope that everyone took the right road, I know that's not the case. Some folks are too bent on acquiring fortune and fame while they're here on earth, and they don't give a second thought to what's going to happen them come Judgement Day. That is, without a doubt, the most important choice...and the easiest....that one has to make.

Look, I don't want to talk anyone out of their faith, not that I could. The mysteries of life are everyone's to try to figure out. Some find it in the word of others, in books written long ago, in a preacher's sermon, some look to science, some just look inward and some are just content to let the mysteries be mysteries. Don't hate anyone for their beliefs or lack of belief. May Darwin bless you.

very christian of you gitsum.

I'm an aethist and I don't give a damn what you are. yet, you choose to hate, belittle, berate, and attack me. Were you a typical christian I would hate, belittle, and berate and attack christians, but thankfully, you are not.

You obviously don't understand Christians. A true Christian gets his ideas from the Bible.

Your idea of what the writers of the Bible should have written is quite funny. It claims to be the written Words of God. If It's not, them the Bible is irrelevant. The Bible has been translated into hundreds of languages from the original languages. There are literally thousands of manuscripts and fragments of manuscripts so that the careful translator or student can see where copies were corrupted. There are only about forty lines in the entire New Testament where everyone does not agree on whether they should be there or not. That is not possible with the Koran. One of the Islamic leaders destroyed all the manuscripts of Muhammad and copies he didn't like.

I'm curious. Why did you capitalize the "K" in Koran and not capitalize the "b" in Bible?

I find it much more comfortable to live in a box where I'm a creature, there's a Creator, and I don't need all my questions answered.

To me a God who reveals Himself and what He has going in the world completely can't be much of a God. If I can understand Him He is too small to do His job.

The God I know takes care of me and gives me what I need when I need it, including occasional insight into the fact that I often confuse wants & needs.

cooper57m posted:

".... The mysteries of life are everyone's to try to figure out....."

I agree with this thought. It places responsibility on the individual.

I would think that when one is one this journey of discovery that truth versus error would be important to discover.

There is truth and there is error. There is right and there is wrong. Most "relativists" deny this.

Many atheists will claim they are "moral" but they obtain their "morality" from the culture or tribe there are in. Some atheists are indeed "moral" in our culture today.

But, an atheist in Syria may have very different morals than an atheist in Canada.

Atheism proposes that there is only the natural system and the end of their analysis is there really is no right or wrong that lives beyond them.

Did we decide if Jews or Amazon tribesmen get to go to heaven?

What about Mormons? Buddhists?

We're meeting at Applebee's tomorrow to take a vote.

Of good. I could use an trip off the farm.

God decided at the foundation of the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:7-9
"the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"

and

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

From a commentary:

The Bible teaches that God is going to judge the world fairly and righteously. “Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness” (Acts 17:31). This means that when all the facts are in, God’s name will be vindicated and no one will be able to accuse Him of being unfair.

It just may be best not to know everything. God has not revealed how exactly he is going to deal with people who have never heard of Jesus Christ. Even though we may not know how He is going to deal with these people specifically, we do know that His judgment is going to be absolutely just.

The Scriptures contain examples of individuals who were accepted by God, even though their knowledge of Him was limited. He is not a respecter of persons, but accepts all that come to him. Rahab, the prostitute, had only a small amount of knowledge of God as she heard what he had done. It was enough knowledge to act on it. The Bible refers to her as a woman of faith, and her actions were commended (Joshua 2:9; Hebrews 11:31). Naaman, the Syrian, was granted peace with God because he exercised faith, even though he was living in the midst of a pagan culture (II Kings 5:15–19). Jonah a prophet, was only one man sent to Nineveh, a ruthless pagan society, and they repented at his preaching of judgment (Jonah 3:5).

There is an example of a man who was in a situation much like the scenario we are discussing. His name was Cornelius. He was a very religious man who was constantly praying to God. He was gentile who had not heard of Jesus Christ, but he was honestly asking God to reveal Himself to him.

God answered the prayer of Cornelius, and sent the apostle Peter to him to give him the gospel. He did it then and he will do it today. This example demonstrates that anyone who is sincerely desiring to know God will hear about Jesus.

I did not quite follow that last part. Are they or aren't going to be allowed into heaven?

Does this mean the Applebees meeting is off?

i've wondered more than once, on the internet why in the world would anyone capitalize anything? it just requires more/additional key-strokes, and we all know that god is an economizer. no?

There are some I like and some I can't stand. People don't believe because they have had a different experience in life than people who do. I can't blame a guy who doesn't believe but I don't like the ones who presume anyone who is a believer is an idiot. Those are the dipshits that bitch and moan about it. I don't believe in the tooth fairy, but then again I don't spend every day of my life bitching about said fairy. Why in the world would anybody spend that much time trying to disprove something they don't even believe in and call themselves ENLIGHTENED.

I don't know anyone who has ever been healed in the name of the tooth fairy, but I know a couple who have been healed in the name of Jesus,,, a man with an experience is NEVER at the mercy of a dumbazz with an argument. But they don't want to talk about that. I'm out, these threads smell as bad as most atheists, arm pits and greasy hair...

TF49,

Your post reminds me of a missionary I met when I was about 14 or 15 years old. He told me about when he was young and went to Africa. He told me about one village he visited. At his first sermon he started in Genesis and went through the story of Jesus, The Creator, dying, being buried and coming back to life. Everyone in the village became a Christian and he was amazed. Of course he asked why. The chief told him something to the effect, "Two years ago I was praying to the hunt god. Then I realized we have the moon god and the sun god and other gods. I also thought 'I am the chief. There is no one else. In the future we will worship only the Chief God. You came and told us about the Chief God.'"

He also claimed to be the first missionary to the Pygmies. They also were converted en mas. Again he was curious. He discovered they were already worshiping the God of Noah. All he did was tell them the rest of the story.

There is a lot more. If anyone is interested give a PM and I will send you some very fun information.

Faith in the one true God is paramount.

It is my understanding that Buddha and Joseph Smith are not adequate substitutes.

Jews? Well, do they have saving faith in the one true God? In the OT times one could say yes. Today, not so much.

The natives in the Amazon are difficult for me. Rahab did not seem to have much knowledge yet she had saving faith in the one true God. I do not understand all of this.

I'm gonna quit this thread. Getting stale.

G'night

Jeff, I haven't started a "religion" post and can't say why others do, but think it may be a combo of factors. Some seem well-intended toward sharing or celebrating faith; some seem honestly inquisitive; some seem to want to offer "alternatives"; others seem intended to challenge/mock/degrade/misrepresent the faith positions of others; some seem like the utterances of angry folks trying to figure out why. No doubt there are other drivers too.

One could simplify the above and say that people are "seeking" - which would seem good - but probably way too simple.

Beyond that, I often have wondered about the way some posters engage others and how they behave on here - thinking that may be a key to why the threads keep coming. Still, no clear answers.

Seen through the glass, darkly?

Ed

Lets keep this train wreak rolling. I'm genuinely curious to hear the reasons why I and others are doomed to an eternity of torment and agony.

Don't know you, your beliefs and certainly not your soul - so can't know the reasons you seek. I believe you need not be doomed as described.

So what did they do- knock on your door, hurl epithaths on a street corner, post on a forum?

Why be offended by something you don't believe in? Particularly, when it comes from someone who does?

That's like being offended when Girl Scouts try to sell you cookies. Maybe that offends you, too, which would explain a lot.

A couple of years back my son and I were outside throwing the football playing catch. Two young men from the local Mormon church saw us and came by to talk. I explained that I'm Lutheran (baptized catholic) and I'm not in the market for a new religion. They understood and the conversation turned to school, sports and hunting. We all chatted for a couple of hours before they went on their way. Very kind, polite and interesting young men that were great witnesses for their faith. Hardly the kind of kids that inspired hatred for their beliefs nor did they insinuate any hatred for mine. Religions get a bad rap but in my life I've seen far more good that they've produced. I don't hate the religious or non religious just based upon their personal beliefs, words and actions are what turn me off from anyone that isn't a "decent" person.

Without reading it, I know this thread jumped the shark long ago. But...

I don't hate atheists. I hate atheism. When you strip it down to it's core it's just nihilism. I can't think of anything more sad or depressing.

I have always found Mormon's to be genuinely good folks. Particularly, their missionaries. I've enjoyed discussions with them. They just don't come around anymore, though. Not even the JW's.

Me too Ricky. By the statements from some though I should be righteously offended that someone dared to attempt to "force" their beliefs on me. 😬

Same here. Agree with them or not,most of them are the kind of people that make good neighbors and good friends.

You've written some dumb schist but that has to be the dumbest.

The cookies are real, tangible objects. Your belief in fairy tale places such as Heaven or Hell are just that YOUR beliefs.There's no tangible proof or evidence of their existence.

You can say that about Islam, but saying that about Christianity is just silly.

You been to either place? Didn't think so.

Cookies are kind of a scam anyway.

Just give her a check and let the troop keep it.

How many times have we heard athiests say, the earth would have had to have been repopulated by brother and sister incest if the flood really happened, because only Noahs family survived it. Many accept that as true, but Genesis 8:15-16 says God said to Noah, come out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and your sons wives.

Even if they did, God didn't change the rule of marrying a sister or brother until hundreds of years later. Abraham married his sister. What's really interesting is there are three lines of mDNA which correspond with Noah's three daugters-in-law.

what's interesting is that there has been royal families spread all over since nearly the beginning.

the issue now is with having so many competing religions spread over the world. it's becoming to the question if in fact the earth people might in fact be better off without a god, compared to having different ones fighting each other for supremacy.

and of course all the followers of each god, wants the followers of the other, competing gods kilt off, or maybe neutered some way.

That right there is the bottom line.

I have never once been offended that Jehovah's Witnesses don't count me among the 144,000... **SHRUG**

i wish we could make fundamental progress in reducing the multitude of gods down to one. once one is established, it'd be time for ol antelope snipe to enter stage left, and we could ultimately decide if we want one or zero.

I don't care what you think or wether you exist or not, I do not have time or the desire to care about you. I did not attack you I don't know you. I just voiced my opinion on the matter and as usual with you types you play the victim.

Prove to me with your science that GOD does NOT exist and I will join your elitist ranks. Now I want proof not your hypothosis. I want proof backed up by inconclusive scientific study. Name your experiments with the dates and the names of the scientists. Oh yeah I want a full report of each scientists background, schooling, accomplishments and the crystal clean FBI background checks to verify there standing in the scientific community. When you have completed this task come back and post your scientific proof that there is no God
If you can't provide this SCIENTIFIC PROOF then you will need to post the fact that since there is no scientific proof there is no God then in fact there IS A GOD. If you come back with any reply other than the proof then you are showing that you do not have the proof and as usual you types are full of excrement and just want to stir it.

WHAT EVIDENCE? Ok atheist here is your chance to set the record straight. Let's go, prove to the world with your scientific proof that God does not exist. I hear that "scientific" claim all the time from you people but oddly enough you can never provide those scientific studies and experiments that you so readily tout.
As usual you will come back with some lame post............and still not be able to offer the proof to rid the world of religion.
It has not been proven that GOD does not exist and never will..........that must really frost your nuggets to be failed by "your" human gods that way .......huh?

I almost feel guilty starting a thread like this.........

Almost.

God created this from nothing:



Proof that 1. God exists and 2. truly loves his atheists.



Show that you might have learned something in high school. Gitsum of this. Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

Notice the absence of imperical data being forwarded?

Not just my belief. Billions of people believe in Heaven and Hell in varying kinds of descriptions. So you're afraid of fairy tales? Or of those who believe they are not fairy tales? It would appear you have a need to try to offend people by terming their beliefs as fairy tales in some kind of retribution for your lack of conviction in believing in nothing. In the final analysis, you're not sure, though you would like to be. You'd like to think you have it all figured out but the obvious fact that most people believe in something leaves you wondering and fearful. And that's what offends you and scares the chit out of you if you dwell on it long enough, and that is what brings out the anger and invectives. Otherwise, I can't see how you would care. And here is the truth: if we hated you, we'd never tell you. But we're willing to take your anger and insults in hopes you might attain something much better for yourself.

RickyD,

Good answer. My son-in-law worked with a guy who claimed to be an atheist. He constantly engaged in conversation with other atheists and called them anti-god people. He said if they really were atheists instead of anti-god they would not care what the other folks believed. He read the Bible one time just to see what was in it and said it had some fun stories in it. He didn't try to convince the theist at work they were full of baloney.

The atheists here seem to be more anti-God than anything else.

Because it is their turn...but don't panic for as soon as your president leaves you can all go back to hating muslims.

If billions of people believe the earth is flat does that make it so?

That depends entirely on whether they will kill you for disagreeing with them or just think nasty thoughts at you.

If the former...yep, it's flat!

It's fairly amusing that most christians are the first to run down any other religion as false or a cult, but refer to their beliefs as a fairytale, and the butt hurt rolls forth.

I just never understood using sheer numbers of believers or followers to justify belief in something.

A billion people can't be wrong.....right?

Well, there are a zillion Muslims. How can they be wrong?

If you are going to believe in something, believe in it. Don't base your belief on numbers of practitioners.

Of course not. It would make them lieberal progressives. They believe all the wrong stuff.

I believe religion is a personal thing and nothing i hate worst is for someone telling me i'm going to hell because i don't believe or think like they do.

What scientific data could we give you that you would believe?

There is irrefutable evidence that the earth is billions of years old and that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, and yet folks still believe the earth is 6 thousand years old and that dinosaurs lived alongside man.

It is impossible to prove god dose not exist, but even if it was possible, you would not believe the evidence you're given.

Your faith blinds you to all reason and logic. You believe only what you want to believe.

I don't care one lick if someone thinks my religious views necessitate an eternity in hell or if they call em fairy tales.

Never understood how one can prove that God doesn't exist or that He didn't have a role in creation through empirical data, yet I hear "proof! Proof!" from the anti-God crowd.

Doesn't make sense, but whatever; no "hatred" here. Besides, anyone who can't deal w/ people not making sense will have a lot better reasons to freak than these in today's day and age and I bet that's something upon which we can all agree.

People in glass houses...

Choose yer fairy tale stand by it and don't be butt hurt when someone disagrees.

This post reveals at least two things: 1.) Regarding "irrefutable", someone may wish to study some recently emerging findings. 2.) Someone assumes the power to read the minds and measure the faith of others.

From the way you masterfully structure your argument, one can surmise that you must have been a championship debater in bible college.

BS big time. You sound like a lieberal. Not an insult: fact. Because I have faith I am blind to all reason and all logic, or just the reason and logic pertaining to what we disagree on? You can't even see or understand that due to factors in experiences or upbringing, we process information differently? Where is the reason and logic in that? I believe what you wrote as using more emotion than reason and logic and I believe that because I believe you're better than that.

It seems like...a lot of the time...we consistently look for evidence to support what we already believe, and we consistently filter out anything to the contrary.

When we stop exporting any goods and have no money to move around ("information economy") or rich guy's butts to kiss ("service industry") our GNP can be measured in sensitivity and offense and it'Il be the hard core Christians duking it out with the hard core Secularists for top producer status.

Exactly,and it works both ways.

There's a well known PHD that has fossils of dinosaur prints right alongside human prints but anyone who doesn't believe that possible will simply dismiss it as a hoax or fake, or try to find some way it could exist and still support their position.

I could explain bibically how the earth could be billions of years old and how man could be older than 6000 years and the Genesis account still be true,but an atheist won't even consider it because it doesn't fit his belief.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Don't forget if there's nothing worth dying for then ya got no reason to live either.

That's got to be the most overrated song ever.

Yep, that Godless bastid gave away all his possessions and money to help the poor. No that's right he didn't. I must have been thinking of someone else who actually believed in God.

LOL

it says "Imagine".

people like him stopped a war , what did your generation do ?

We won the war!

I remember some of these as the lyrics to a rather trite song written by an overpaid rock star. I'd like to understand, so kindly explain. Did you post this as a paean for some set of values, or as a reminder of the limitations of mankind and the silliness of an earthly utopia, or ??

Scientific "truths" are always subject to change as more information becomes available.

Once a man discovers that he indeed has a Creator, and that his Creator takes an interest in him, personally, that becomes a settled matter. It becomes the Great Fact in the man's life.

His concept of his Creator may change over time, but the existence of hos Creator is beyond question.

Faith has become belief.

The evidence is in the man's mind and is not subject to review.

As far as approaching it from a scientific angle, Dr. William James did that over a hundred years ago. I doubt that any of our resident Atheists have read his "Varieties of Religious Experiences" in its entirety.

It's more fun for them to argue with Ringman.

Most people believed the earth was flat. But the Bible believers knew it was spherical and the north was hung on nothing.

How often does this happen?

Do some research and discover the earth's age, believed by evolutionists, is based on a meteorite called something like allende (pronounced au-yen-day. If you check on radiometric dating you will discover it is piles on top of piles of assumptions.

f it is irrefutable why are there Ph.D scientists who disagree with you and will debate any scientists who disagree them?

Sort of a "rescuing devise."

No you can't. You can distort and compromise the Scripture to say anything. But you can't Biblically explain an old earth with It.

Thanks but I've not needed to imagine having nothing for which to live. I've been there for real, and it isn't pretty.

RH Clark said it better than I could the ultimate irony of John Lennon's imagined utopia; he had a chance to make it somewhat real & chose the life of a rich drug addelled rock star instead.

This is the wisest thing anyone in this thread has said. It's true - about everyone, including myself. Nobody really listens to what people with different view points have to say, they just look for things they agree with and nod their heads and take note of it if it sounds like it might be a useful thing to repeat in the future. It is rare for any of us to truly take time to think about anyone else's perspective or the reality that they see. This is why it is almost pointless to post in these forums, or most anywhere. If you say something others disagree with, they will find ways to ignore or deflect or belittle what you have to say with little regard to any truth that might be there if it offends their preconceptions. It's also the reason the world is so full of hate - we hate it when someone disagrees with our preconceptions of the world. It's like they are challenging our reality. And in a way, they are.

Those of you who vainly attempt to offer "proof" there is no God by saying that there are human foot prints alongside dinosaur prints from thousands of years ago need to read GENESIS. Genesis clearly states that humans were in existence when he created Adam and Eve. If you had read Genesis before you made your argument you would have known how wrong your argument is.

Note to atheist.........do not try to offer proof there is no God by using the bible to prove it. Especially if you have not read it............it makes you look and sound small.

GOD BLESS YOU.....................HATE THAT DON't YOU? What you don't get is that that statement is the most charished gift a Christian can request for you. The Christian that says that to you is asking the best for you. Even if you don't beleive in God you should recognize that the person who says it to you is giving their best gift to you. Yet you bristle with anger.........see how nasty you appear to us?

READ GENESIS

Do you mean dinosaurs?

And what gives you pleasure in attacking my belief? Does it make you feel good to attack someone because he believes in something you don't? That doesn't seem pathologicaly sadistic to you................and you wonder why people don't like atheists.

Since you used the word "rare" you did get that right. The Bible tells us everyone's ways are right in their own eyes. But there are those rare individuals. When I was twenty-five years old someone showed me something that contradicted what I was taught in school. The problem was the article had the scientific facts that refuted my evolutionary position. I was mentally crushed.

After consulting a psychiatrists I decided there must be Infinite Intelligent Energy. I didn't call it "God", I just realized I'm here and the evolution I was taught was refuted by an evolutionist. It took a few years to convert to being a creationist and a couple more years to become a Bible creationist.

Once I became a Bible creationists I read the Bible and accepted it for the Word of God. There was no room for compromise. Quite quickly I got tired of so many "Christians" compromising with the Word of God and still rejecting so much of it.

No I meant dinosaur

So humans were in existence when god created Adam and Eve?

I am out, I have not seen any evidence I should rethink my belief in God as usual.
I would like to say that I don't fault anyone for their beliefs or non beliefs and really don't care what you do or do not beleive. Just know this, when you attack my beliefs you attack me and when you attack me I will defend myself without limits.

GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU.................some of you need help more than others as this discussion has proven.
I hope that one day the atheist can come to peace with there confusion! LMAO

One of the things I love about these religious threads is watching the Christians contradict each other and themselves. Just one of the reasons I find modern religion fascinating....


"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of anything he was never reasoned into." ~ attrib. Jonathan Swift

Gitsum...

Welcome back, TAK!!!

READ GENESIS WORD FOR WORD AND GET BACK TO ME.

In Genesis one of the many verses that discusses others who resided on earth before and after Adam and Eve mentions that Caine, a son of Adam and Eve "went to the land of NOD to search for a wife". That is just one of many mentions of others being on earth before, during and after Adam and Eve.

READ GENESIS, MANY OF YOUR MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE BIBLE WILL BE CORRECTED FOR YOU. It isn't your fault, most misconceptions taught to people are teachings of opinion NOT teachings of the true writings from the bible.

ATHEISTS STAY TUNED!! later today I am going to change your minds about Christians and their faith and change your lives! While you wait for me to get back to the forum I will need for you to decide if you really are as OPEN MINDED AS YOU THINK YOUR SCIENTIFIC SELVES ARE. If you truly are, what I write will change your minds and maybe your lives forever. I am NOT going to preach to you I am going to give you something to understand why Christians beleive in God. Then maybe you will be a little more tolerant of our so called "fairy tail" believing selves.

I've found believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is a bunch more fun.

Still on the ledge about the Great Pumpkin.

The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. (Psalm 53:1)

Thanks for this. Let's hope that some can get their minds wrapped around it.

i just don't like dogma , like to imagine and challenge any thing. thats all.

Persian.

It's really very simple...... if a man honestly searches for his Creator, he can find none but Jesus.

He need not worry about finding the "wrong god", nor does he need to concern himself with Satan. [if you think the Bible teaches otherwise, then you , or the Bible, are wrong]

I used "you" in the generic sense.

Seems to me that creativity, and imagination, are quite different than challenging a stated dogma.

reminds me of a well-intentioned Exocist that mistakenly excises the wrong demon out of a person.

It's really hard to kill the wrong rattlesnake.

So there is hope for you.....................you recognize ST. Nicholas and Christ's Mass. Stay tuned I am gonna help you make sense of it ALL!

i'm in total agreement as you knew i would be. problem is, the PC around here are getting to where they don't want us hunting them, killin' them or nothin'