Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Velocity!!! How important is it?

I hunt what I call 30/30 ranges...

this season so far, I've been carrying an ADL in 243, loaded with a 90 grain Speer SP, and moved along by 33 grains of AR Comp....

Zeroed 2 inches high at 100 yds, is giving a dead on at 200 yd result...easily a 250 yd load...

what more do I need?

6mm-284: 95 gr bt @ 3300 fps mv
264 Win mag: 130 ab @ 3300 fps mv
7MM STW: 160 ab @ 3200 fps

There might be a theme to my collection of game rifles.

It is important to remember that the 160 gr accubond which left the muzzle at 3200 fps is only doing 2600 fps when it connects to that bull elk at 400-450 yds. 2600 fps is a desirable impact velocity for any bullet.

I'll take all the mv I can get without destroying my shoulder.

Most of mine run about the same. I agree, I'll take all of the speed I can get, using good bullets I haven't found any detriment to it.

Let the horse run, as long as it's accurate at given velocity.

Bob,nice group with the Mashburn.

If you used a $20 bill the group may have been a bit smaller.

Elkhuntr: I keep missing the dollar bill.....

I would too at that distance.

For hunting, I just need enough velocity to cause the bullet to expand at impact, and completely penetrate the animal (an exit wound helps tracking in thick stuff). I hunt what most would consider short range, and I've never killed a deer at over 110 yards, so anything in the .30-30 class is OK for me. That said, I've killed deer with 130 gr. .270 bullet at 3000 fps impact velocity, and it was messy. I've killed deer with a 270 gr. .44 bullet at 1300, and it was much cleaner. This year, the nod goes to the Hornady 117gr. RN in a .250-3000 at 2550, and I think it will do very well. The second deer I shoot will likely fall to a 220gr. .38-55 at 1650. It should also do very well. If I hunted at longer ranges, velocity would be of more importance to me, but at bayonet range, not so much.

Old70

I think that's right, up to a point but it seems like that trend is changing. To re-state the obvious, with scopes that reliably adjust for distance, flat trajectory isn't as important as it once was. Lot's of guys are throttling back and shooting milder cartridges, especially those that shoot high volume.

The popularity of the Creedmor is a good indicator.

Yes....that's all true. Mostly among more ardent shooters who shoot match, tactical etc,......but the list of "most popular"cartridges remains pretty much the same year to year.

In any event the Creed is still a "fast" cartridge by about any standard and shoots high BC bullets to hand on to as much speed as possible. So even in that realm of velocity people think speed is important.

I think it will be awhile before the Creedmoor catches up to the 7 RM in BG hunting popularity.

I am one who maintains that flat trajectory is still very useful in BG hunting despite the new technology;LRF's don't always give a reading and BG animals have the bad habit of not being as cooperative at standing around as fixed targets and gongs. I will still take that 3000-3200 fps whenever i can get it.

That Mashburn-162/160 load above gets to 600 yards "on the windshield" of a 6x36 and that's never a bad thing in open country.

Mornin Smokey -

I can only speak for myself buy I'll take a 400 yd MPBR advantage THEN add adjusting scopes/dots etc.

For many yrs now +/- 400 yds is about my maximum hunting distance available. Some say 400 yds is not long range and for some that's true.

The % of hunters actually hunting and shooting past 500 yds is very small. We read HERE all the time that the majority of game is shot LESS than 200 yds. Even in this thread some have said they hunt what they call 30/30 ranges. So...

This is my personal position, I don't hunt/shoot any cartridge that's NOT CLOSE to 3000 fps. It has taken me over a year to kick the 6.5X55 in the BUTT to get to 3000 fps.

So many times in WT hunting in the Southern Piney woods there is NOT ENUFF time for binos--ranging--cranking knobs--aiming. You'd best be ready to judge antlers, aim AND shoot. We have an antler POINT restriction of 3 points on a side.

Even tho we ALL hunt, we don't all hunt in the same circumstances. We all choose what works best for us OR simply what we like.

Jerry

Good article by JB on this a few years back in "Handloader" or "Rifle" that I believe Bangeye referred to a few posts back, "The Perfect Velocity". As I recall JB didn't say it's the only velocity for all shooting situations but 2700fps with the right bullet will take care of most "Big Game" hunting situations.

IMO knowing the trajectory of the load you're shooting and the limits of how far you can shoot it accurately in all situations is more important than any other factor. Our military snipers have made some very long shots and kills with a 308 at around 2600fps. ymmv.

For most of my hunting purposes a bullet leaving the muzzle at around 2700 fps gets me there



Trystan

Lots of deer killed by projectiles only going about 80 ft/sec. Not much expansion or penetration required.




Wrecks a lot of meat though. I don't recommend it.

Jerry

How many bench rest rifles are super fast cartridges?

More velocity = more recoil. There are trade offs for just about everything and I haven't found >2700ish to be any limitation for the hunt I do.

Yes thats the article. I believe that he also included a demonstration of the amount of drop at some distance between a 308 and a 300 mag. of some sort and it wasn't quite as severe as one might expect. Im not advocating using a 30-30 for 500 yd shots on elk but I do find that bullets in the 2700-2800 realm usually allow me to sight in for a point blank range of 300 yds on a deer sized target. I generally sight in about 2.5" high and if I loan my rifle to someone and they startup about where to hold at long range I usually say well if he looks really, really far off you can aim higher on the shoulder but you better shoot at hair. It been my experience that we don't see many deer at 300+ yds and most folks I have run across, will swear that a deer at 200 is 350 yds.

Afternoon Jerry. I say, to each his own. I'm not saying faster or slower is better, just commenting on general trends in response to Bob's post. Personally, I like both but tend to shoot the milder cartridges more.

What are you shooting to get a 400 yard MPBR at sea level?

Smokey - I don't know about sea level, I've never hunted at sea level. <grin>

I learned back in the 80s from 'Gun Writers/Hunters' with a muzzle velocity of 3100 or so 3" hi at 100 puts you @ 4" hi at 200 then more/less on at 300 yds.

With that system at 400 yds you DON'T hold over the back line. On WT an ADULT will be 16"-18" deep SO up to 400 yds you're no more than 4" hi mid-range and at 400 hold on the TOP of the BACK the drop will still be a kill shot.

The exact trajectory figures will vary a little depending on specific velocity and BC of specific bullets. I've been using this system so long that it's second nature to me.

Obviously the higher the velocity the FLATTER the trajectory.

I remember John Wooters, J R S, et.al. using and recommending this procedure. That was before the popularity of turrets & knobs or dots. And the only 6.5 cartridge mentioned was 264 WM and it was viewed as a barrel burner.

Jerry

I learned the same from Bob Hagel and still run my guns that way from the 35 Whelen to the 7mm Mashburn...

Finally some backup.

Dang, I have been flamed more times than I can count for recomending a 300 yd or possibly longer zero.

I learned from my Dad fifty years ago to use a 300 yd zero with the '06. Granted, especially with factory fodder, the midrange trajectory is a little steep. But ground squirrels at 175 yds to 250 yds will quickly train one to properly hold under.

The midrange trajecty is not quite so problematic in the 30-06 with a good 165 boat tail handloaded to 65,000 psi using a slow burn rate powder.

When hunting with the rounds mentioned in my earlier post, I sight in at 350 yds or 325 yds with the STW.