Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Accuracy issues with my new 243?

Bought a 243 ADL at Academy Sports a couple weeks ago. Tried getting it to shoot in the factory stock but it was pretty inconsistent with about everything. I decided that it needed a stock and I had an B+C stock that came off another rifle, so I bought some BDL bottom metal and put it together. Torqued stock to 50inch pnds and have been trying to get it to shoot my hand loads. I have tried Varget and IMR 4350 with 70gr Speer TNT's. I have used various charges in both powders, all the way from middle of road to max in .5gr increments. I have had it shoot some great groups here and there, then when I load more of the same powder charge, it will not duplicate. I have handloaded for alot of rifles and I usually load to max COL and usually find something that works so I have been seating them to 2.710. Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Getting frustrated a little with this rifle. No apparent stringing, just patterns and occasionally a crazy unexplained flyer? Stock was bedded for a different rifle but seems to fit ok.

Thanks
HeavyBarrel

Have had gun shoot 1/2" groups with a certain charge but can not get repeatability?


HeavyBarrel

Try the Sierra 85gr HPBT with 45.0grs of RL19, that load shoots out of all (14) 243s. Can use the Barnes 80gr TTSX for deer with the same load.

HB

I have had rifles do the same thing. One time I had found a load which on consecutive 3 shot groups shot about 3/8". Went home and loaded 50 rounds and a few days later went to fine tune POA shot 1 1/2" - 3" groups. Same bullet, same COAL, individually weighed each charge, once fired brass etc,etc. I never duplicated that original series. The rifle did shoot another load with a different bullet/powder very well and consistently. This is why it is better to shoot 5 - 10 shot groups to make sure that the rifle shoots consistently and has not randomly produced a "good" group.

You state that the B&C stock was bedded for another rifle, could it possibly have the action under tension/ torsion causing a change in POI with each shot?

I do think that the action might be bound up due to the original bedding being for a different rifle. That may be my problem so I will drop it off at the Smith and let him check it out and re-bed.
I agree with the five shot group idea. I usually do that with my heavy barrel guns. I have my loading bench and rifle range right at my pole barn at house, so when I get a good 3 shot group, I will usually go back in and load 2 more and see if they hit in the same spot. I did this with a couple charge weights and might have 4 in one ragged hole then a flyer. I usually discount the flyer as just a hick up on my part and load 3 more. most of the time they would not duplicate.

HeavyBarrel

I bought an ADL in 243 from Walmart a few years back, and it's been a very accurate rifle, both in the factory stock and in the one I restocked it with. I'd try several different bullets and bullet weights. Every 243 I've ever had liked W760 powder and the Sierra 85 grain HPBT bullet, loaded at max.

Shot again this evening. 47gr IMR 4350, Remington brass (New), Winchester Large Rifle Primer, 70gr Speer TNT, seated a touch deeper at 2.700 COL. This combination has produced several 3 shot groups 1/2", but not consistent, so I fouled barrel with some old factory, since i cleaned it yesterday after shooting, and tried a 5 shot group. Right at 1" at 100 so I let barrel cool and had 3 more loaded up the same and shot a 1.5" 3 shot group. It is not my shooting, I may not be the best but I shoot a lot and have no trouble getting accuracy out of my other rifles. I use a bench jack, and rabbit ear rear bag, and a couple sand bags for comfort and to hold the jack. That is all of the new brass, I guess I have shot the gun 200 rounds or so, at least 100 hand loads of different combos.

I am going to drop it off at the Smith ASAP and let him bed re bed it. Dont know what else to try.

HeavyBarrel

Sell it or trade it and get a Tikka - problem solved.

drover

Lol, got one on the way but it's a 30-06. I sold my Savage coyote rifle, mistake, and bought the 243 to take its place. I mainly bought it because I had the B+C Stock laying around. Figured I could find something to shoot out of it but so far nothing but agrivation! May trade it for another savage. I am gonna get it bedded first and see what happens before giving up.

HeavyBarrel

Dang gun shows real promise sometimes! Hoping the bedding will get it more consistent.

I hate guns like that - all they are is teasers. The biggest issue is that I have found with a rifle that will only shoot one load good is that even if a load is found that shoots good it just doesn't seem to keep doing it very long.

I am assuming that since it is an ADL it has the tupperware stock. If so try putting it back in the tupperware stock but put a couple of piece of business cards under the front of the receiver so that the barrel free-floats. This will at least give you an idea if it is a bedding issue. I have actually had pretty good luck with the tupperware stocks, although they can be finicky, I have had the best results by tightening the action screws pretty tightly. I have also cured a couple of poor shooters by free-floating in the tupperware stocks.

If it is not a bedding issue then cut your losses - sell the B&C stock, sell the BDL bottom metal and sell the rifle to someone who wants an action to build on - then buy another Tikka or another Savage.

drover

I would have the crown checked while it is at the gunsmith. Might be worth a look anyway.
Good luck,
David

Every rifle is different, as far as the bullet/powder combination it likes. Although I've rarely found it to be the case, sometimes cases and primers can even make a difference. Bullet seating depth also plays a part. So far, if I've I read your posts correctly, you've only tried one bullet, the 70 grain Speer. If the rifle were mine, I would have already tried several more bullet weights and brands. That's what I love about the 243...there's a variety of bullets out there to experiment with. I don't think it's fair to judge a rifle on the fact that you can't get it to shoot the Speers like you want it to. Who knows, it might be a tack driver with another bullet. I have a Howa 204 that's my truck gun. I have a dislike for the 32 grain VMAx as a coyote bullet, and tried several other bullets in this rifle. But, the one it consistently shoots the best is.....you guessed it, the 32 grain VMax. So, that's what I shoot in it. I reload for 4 different 243's, all Model 700's. One of them shoots everything good, while the others seem to prefer certain bullets. Experiment, that's the only way to see if a rifle will shoot or not.

Have you tried a different scope?

How about making sure the blocks and rings are tight?

Besides a new bedding job that is where I would look.

I would try some different bullets and seating depths. I have had good luck with nosler 70 gr bt and berger 69 gr high BC varmint bullets, over varget. My oal on the noslers is 2.730" and the bergers are 2.745".

I thought along these same lines after I had posted last night.

For what it is worth here are some suggestions to try before you take it to the gunsmith.

1. Check the scope ring bases for tightness. On the front base remove the front screw and check for it hitting the barrel threads. If it is the threads may show a slight crushing and the screw may show some marks on the bottom where it has contacted the threads. This can really create havoc with groups since the front base is not tight if this is happening.

2. Check the screws in the rings to be sure they are snug and not letting the scope shift.

3. Try a different scope, preferably a "known good" scope. If you do not have one laying around then take the scope off your 243 ADL and try it on another rifle of known accuracy.

I ran into a scope issue recently which caused me to scratch my head just a bit. I wanted a bit more power on my 223 for shooting groups, I removed the scope on the 223, installed what I was sure was a "known good" scope and instead of shooting 5 shot half-inch groups it was now shooting inch and one-half groups. Since I had not shot the rifle for a few months I checked action screw tension, bases, etc and tried it again and the results were very similar to what you are getting - sometimes 3 or 4 close and a flyer or two, but no real consistency. I used the old trouble shooting technique of going back to the last thing that was done before the issue occurred. I put the original scope back on and was right back to shooting one-half inch 5 shot groups.

Sometimes you cannot even trust "known good" scopes and it is necessary to test them on a different rifle.

If you do these things and you see some improvement or consistency in the groups then you can try the rifle in the other stock to see what occurs then.

Just some more food for thought.

drover

When I acquire a new rifle, I always start load development with a Sierra Matchking.

I want to see just how accurate the rifle can be, then I try to get close to that with my hunting loads.

The other day, I read the phrase "if your rifle won't shoot Green well, you have a problem rifle".

JamesJr I have tried many different bullets, hand loads and factory. The 70gr Speer just showed the most promise of them all. The Federal Fusion Factory ammo did ok also.

Scope is a brand new Leupold. Guess it could be an issue??

Might try the tupper ware stock and shimming.

Yes if I take it to the Smith, I will have him check the crown.


HeavyBarrel

I once had a Howa 6.5X55 that I could not get to shoot as I wanted it o, despite trying a bunch of different loads. As a last resort, I called the company, and they said send it back and they would replace it. They did, and the new rifle shot better, though not tack driving material by any means. Which leads me to say that it certainly is possible you have a rifle that just may not shoot as well as you want, no matter what you do.

IMR 4064 and the Hornady 75 gr V-Max

Is the magazine box touching the bottom or sides of the stock? Barrel floated or touching the sides of the stock? Have you tried a different scope or scope ring? If its not bedded have you played with the action screw torque?

Barrel is floated, Mag box unsure but will check. Stock was bedded , but for a different 700.

HeavyBarrel

I would re-bed for sure.

There's all sorts of possible issues if the stock isn't bedded for THAT action, so I'd think hard about at least trying a "skim" bed, making sure the old bedding is ready for adhesion of any new bedding.
The first and easiest way to get a clue is to either cut up some credit card or business card shims to temporarily float both the action and barrel. Just make sure the recoil lug is in contact with the shoulder as you tighten it down. But I've done that numerous times to get a clue and it can be amazing, almost night and day.
The other think you'd want to do is check your contact with either inletting black (ick) or Prussian blue (also ick). But either will force you to "clean up" and prep the old bedding for the new skim or re-bed.
I had to do that a couple of times, what I did was apply the blacking, crank stuff down as per usual, and then shoot the rifle. Then I pulled the action and that revealed the extent of contact without any doubt.
And the mag box might be secretly ruining everything. I don't know enough about Rem B and CDL's to know how the mag box is made, but if it's separate from the bottom metal, you could probably pull it out and shoot naked single shot and see what happens. Also, the shim trick above should get the bottom metal away from any action contact/stress, too.

Worked through some issues very similar to yours with a buddys model 7 7-08. The barrel would foul and start tearing jackets up accuracy would go to pot. A hard cleaning would bring things back but only last for 10 rounds or so then start opening up again. It was a shame he really liked the gun but lost all faith in it. He ended up trading instead of putting a new tube on.

Have a Ruger m77 mkii, 300 win mag. Hand lapped barrel before shooting. Went through a strict barrell breakin. Best i could get is 1 1/2" out of handloads and the best factory ammo. Just for chits and giggles i grabbed a box of Rem 180gr xpress. The Cheapest ammo you can buy. 4 3shot groups that clover leafed. This box had been on the shelf for a couple years so next time I was at wally world grabbed a new box and had the same result. It has dropped several deer out to 650 +/- with out fail. Just sayin some guns like the cheap stuff.

What procedure did you use?

Bore guide. Do not let rod rub barrell crown or chamber. 30 cal jag with 1 patch with Rem bore cleaner. Pour boilng hot water thru bore to remove any machine oil polish until your arm falls off. Next nigbt repeat. When finnished boil water and pour through barrel. This will remove remaining polish. Hold barrel with a rag it will get hot. Break in 1 shot and clean 20 times cheap ammo. Then 3 shots and clean.

I have done this to several factory rifles and tbey all shoot above average for the class.

I used this process on a Kimber VT Long Master. It shoots one hole at 100. My best shot was a PD at 725.

Rifle is at gunsmith now. Being re-bedded and crowned. Got 20 or so different combinations loaded up and ready to try. Will keep yall posted on how it does.

HeavyBarrel

Try some Bergers. If it won't shoot Bergers , it won't shoot.

In 2008 I bought a new Rem 700 BDL in 243 thinking it would shoot great because I had two other 700s that shot within .75 MOA (22-250 and a 338 RUM).

Not so fast. The damn rifle was lucky to shoot groups inside 4 inches!!

Everything I tried - no luck - to include changing scopes.

Finally broke down and bought the first box of factory ammo since 1965 and same result.

I contacted Mother Green, and their response was that the rifle "shot within factor specs" and they would do nothing about it!!!

I rebedded the action and got it to shoot within 3 inches.

Recrowned and got it within 2 1/2 inches.

Figured I had a lemon and had two choices. Rebarrel or trade and buy another 243 and risk another lemon.

So I rebarreled to a 243 Ackley. Never made a better choice in my life. That rifle drives tacks and I never worry about trimming the brass.

Will never buy another Rem 700

Barstooler

Barstooler, what sort of performance improvement did you AI rebarrel get you?

85 sierra bthp. .030 off the lands, lapau brass, I 4064 amd 210m.

Update on .243. Got gun back from smith today. Had it re-bedded and crown touched up. Got home, mounted and torqued scope, and action and tried some ammo I had loaded and ready for trial. Had some 70gr Speer TNT loaded with 47gr of IMR 4350, 5 to be exact. Shot all five after fouling barrel and getting scope close with some factory. Printed a nice 3/4"group! Pretty pumped so I had some 80gr Barnes TTSX's loaded up with 4350 and they did about 2" for a 5 shot group. Had 5 Speers's loaded with varget, same OAL as the first Speers's with 4350 and it did about a 2" group with those five. Had some more Barnes loaded with Varget and they did 2" or slightly a little more. Loaded about 20 more Speers's with the 4350 at same specs as the first that shot 3/4" but ran out of day light so I have yet to confirm. Cleaned the bore really well and will give them a try tomorrow.
Will keep yall posted and hope that it wasnt a fluke!

HeavyBarrel

I "built" a 243 out of a Savage 110 300 Win Mag by changing the magazine, bolt head and barrel which was easy. Got it sighted in in 8 shots with the last three almost touching 1 inch high at 100 yards. 43.0 grains of AA4350 and the 85 grain Nosler Partition. Can't wait to see how the 95 grain Ballistic Tips shoot. I wanted to AI this barrel and still can but ti would only be to stop the incessant trimming but I can just toss the common brass after 4-5 shots and go on with it.

Shot the 243 this evening again. Seems to like the Federal Fusion 95gr factory with 5 in less than 1.5" sometimes less than 1". I decided that after not getting the repeated good groups with the IMR4350 that I would give IMR4064 a try. Glad I did, it shot 5 within an inch 2 different times. Bullet was Speer 70gr TNT at 2.625 OAL and 40gr of 4064. i also loaded 5 at 40.5 and they shot within an inch. Ran out of light but got 5 loaded up at 40.5grs and seated the bullets out a little further. I ran out of light but will give them a try soon and try several different seating depths to see if I can tighten them up a little. Looks like gun may turn out to be a keeper but it seems really finicky, more so than other rifles I have worked with.

HeavyBarrel

and I get flack from some guys on the campfire, when I speak of what a good choice 4064....

just FYI, I shoot the 70 TNT using the old IMR Brown Sheet load data for the 80 grain Sierra.. which is 42.5 grains..

If you can't find 4064 when you run out, IMR 4895 will take the same load data.. at least in each of my 243s, past and present...

3031 is also a darn good choice if you can't find the above two powders on the shelf... .but IMR powders haven't been having an availability problem for quite a while...

oh and just consulted my IMR Brown Sheet, the max charge listed for a 80 grain bullet with 3031 is 39.5 grains...

work up as always, just in case...

but all three are accurate....

30 grains of 4198 also makes a good off season plinking load...

I did notice that gun likes to be shot cool. A warm barrel prints loads inconsistent. It also seems to like to be fouled pretty good. I have about 50 through gun when it showed the really good groups with the 4064. I may start shooting 3 shot groups as I usually do with sporter weight guns being this rifle is so finicky.
I think that 4064 is the powder, I will confirm this evening, so now I will start playing with seating depth. The decent groups I was getting was at 2.625 and I will work closer to lands from there. I know that i can seat out to 2.700 and still fit magazine well but getting close to feeling like I am running out of neck length for proper tension at that length? How far do yall seat out bullets and how big a jump do you go while testing seating depth?

Thanks

HeavyBarrel

I'm not so scientific with it...

Been working with my ADL lately...

I just make a dummy round...seat it long, and then ram it home in the chamber single fed...

that gives me what the throat length is...

put that in the press and adjust down until I touch the bullet.. then turn the seating adjustment down a hair and call it a day...

and leave the dummy round in the die box for reference, until I'm changing bullets...

I usually buy the TNTs in the larger box with 750 bullets...
and I have a couple of those... so I'll be shooting the TNTs a while...

75 grain HPs seem to be pretty close.. I'd buy those instead if they came in the boxes of 750...

Will your dummy round fit in the magazine box? Is there enough neck tension??

Thanks

HeavyBarrel

yes there is enough neck tension...

I'm a guy who single feeds my rifles...except for deer hunting...

The 87 grain SP I used the last two deer seasons, set to the same length as the dummy round, would fit in the magazine...

Shot several decent groups at OAL of 2.625 and worked up from there. I also played around with the powder charge of IMR4064. Worked all the way up to 42.3 Gr, which is .8gr higher than the highest Max charge in any of my loading manuals with no pressure signs. I settled on 42gr and the OAL of 2.625. I worked seating depth up to 2.700 with okay groups, just seemed to like the deeper seating depth the most. I have shot enough groups with that combination to feel like it is accurate enough for what I will use the gun for.

I am fixin to start coyote hunting and it should do the trick!

Anyone chronographed 4064 with bullets around 70gr?

HeavyBarrel

I think I wrote in an earlier post that my favorite powder for the 243 is W760. I have never got a "bad" load with it. My next favorite is IMR4064, and though it's an "old" powder, I think it's still a good one. A lot of these old school powders work very well.

Heavybarrel, exactly how are you "cleaning" this barrel???? When you believe you have it clean are you able to look in the bore with a borescope??? I am going to guess not.
Remington barrels typically have some tooling marks and they also typically will copper up, especially when new. I can tell you that for certain, many people claim to have "cleaned" their rifle and many honestly believe the bore is clean and that the product they are using works great...when in fact it does not.
I have tried them all and found only a few bore cleaners that really work and get the copper out. Some very popular ones will work...if you leave them soaking in the bore for a week. Your rifle sounds exactly like a typical copper fouled bore that is not getting really clean.
At this point I would suggest your next move to be to find someone with a borescope and have it looked at BEFORE you spend any more money or try any other "remedies". Maybe it's not copper fouled and maybe you are truly getting it clean, but I can tell you I have seen scopes replaced, barrels replaced, stocks bedded 3 times, triggers bought, bullets and powder changed and tried, rests, benches, shooters, targets, and the only thing wrong with the rifle was copper in the bore, an owner not willing to believe it and bore cleaner that does not work.
Personally, I have had very good luck with Speer TNT bullets. I have a 7mm-08 that will put them in the same hole, but it wont do that with Match bullets.

I'm an old man so I'll ramble on a bit. Ever notice 22 match hollow points. The come in 52 and 53 grain weights. One flat base the other is a boat tail. Let your rifle decide with it likes. Some rifles like a long Bering surface others not so much.
Nosler says the bullet is a 95% of accuracy. Any number of powers will shoot the right bullet accurate.
Also a cheap way to determine length from the lands is to use a dowel rod. Stick a bullet in the lands and run the rod down the barrel and mark at the muzzle with an xacto knife. Remove the bullet and run the rod to the bolt face and mark with knife. Measure with cailipers and subtract .015 or so. The only limit is a short mag box. Hasbeen

msinc, I use Butches Bore Shine, have for years. I typically run patches saturated with Buches down the bore till all visible powder residue is absent from patch. I swab back and forth and leave solvent in the bore for at least 10 minutes, then check for signs of copper, (Blue on patch) If any trace is noticed, I run three solvent patches through bore then let sit another 10 minutes. I repeat till I see no evidence of copper or very light stained patches. I then run a couple patches of Kroil through bore to remove solvent, followed by a dry patch to push out Kroil. Been cleaning like this for years and have never had a rifle give me this much trouble. I usually send them down the road if they are to finicky.

HeavyBarrel

Shot gun about 35 times today with 4064, and Varget. Tumbling all my Remington brass that I have been using so I worked up 50 Winchester brass. I tried the same powder charge and seating depth that I had used to shoot the good groups the evening before, the only change was Winchester brass. It didnt like the Winchester brass! Tried some 75gr V-Max's and 4064, at several seating depths and it would not shoot to my liking. I also tried some 80gr Barnes TTSX's and it didnt like them!! Figured I would give Varget another try and thought that I might be on to something when I shot a 1/2" 3 shot group with the 70gr TNT at the same seating depth as the good groups from 4064 and Remington brass. I measure OAL and Ogive. The ogive is 3.175. That is where previous good groups have measured. After shooting the 1/2" group, I through together 5 more and shot at same bullseye. the total group measured around 1 3/4" for 8 shots. I am unsure about the gun! It is driving me crazy!! I have 10 more of the 4064 load that shot good yesterday, I had put them up in case I decided to go try and call a coyote. I am going to shoot them tomorrow, weather permitting, and if they show inconsistency, I may just pull whats left of my hair out and take it to my gunsmith for a new tube!

HeavyBarrel

I have had a few rifles like yours over the years, they are nothing but frustration. Like you I have tried every trick in the book on them and they just respond with teaser groups but no consistency. I have tried different stocks, different bedding, different scopes and mounts, it seems as though an occasional rifle just will not respond.

Back in the early 90's when the 700 first became available in 260 Rem I bought one and it was the absolute worse grouping,most inconsistent rifle I have ever owned. I did all of the usual tricks without making much headway - I finally took it to them smith to have the action trued, barrel crown touched up, etc. When I picked it up he said that he had never seen a 700 as out of tolerance as that one was. When he trued the bolt there was a high spot on it about 1/3 of the way around the bolt just behind the locking lugs, both lugs had to be trued to make good contact and the bolt face had to be trued. It shot ok after all of that but even then it was no better than any of my other 700's.

Sometimes you have to accept that you may have a POS and move on to a different rifle.

drover

Yeah, problem children can drive you NUTS.

Had a barrel like that. It would not shoot ANYTHING like it should, I found a load that was "functional" in I'd get four out of five in the "tiny group," but still, out P-Dogging I'd not know if EYE missed or the GUN missed.

Then, I got so mad I attacked the barrel with valve compound, I was a tired puppy when I was done being mad. Well -- then I shot another load that was "gopher" class (this was a 22BR) and it was drilling holes with that, and ONLY that.

Eventually, I took that tube off, and later when I wanted a Fireball, that tube was the victim (hey, it was free scrap metal at that point). Well, it's GREAT as a Fireball. Go figure.

Heavybarrel...if Butch's Bore Shine is what you have used in other rifles for years and you haven't had any problems it is because those rifles don't copper foul. This will probably make a few people mad, but...that is probably one of the poorest performing bore cleaners available today. It ranks right up there with most of the "foaming" bore cleaners that also accomplish zero {unless you leave them in the bore for a week} and even then many still do nothing to copper.
The people that swear by Butch's almost invariably DO NOT own a borescope. If they did they would get over their infatuation with the stuff.
I have been lucky with the two 243's that I own, both are tack drivers, but I do know and have seen many 243 rifles that were picky about ammo, whether it be the powder and charge, the brand bullet or the seating depth.
Buy a new barrel if you want to, but I would definitely suggest getting some JB Bore Cleaner or Iosso paste and following the instructions first. What ever it says to do, do it twice. Good luck and good shooting.

msinc, I do have JB and will give it a try before re-barrel. I had already thought about cleaning with it, but I was not seeing the dark blue patches that I have usually seen with severely copper fouled barrels that I have dealt with in the past. At this point I am willing to try anything and this is the cheapest option.

HeavyBarrel

I would shoot some David Tubb Final Finish or TMS bullets through it.I've used both products and every rifle I used them in improved greatly.I had a 300 Win Mag that was giving me fits too.I felt like what do I have to lose.I was ready to have a new barrel put on it.I ran the whole 50 bullets through it and it grouped better than ever.I had one that kept throwing me a flier.I ran just 5 of the TMS bullets through it and that cured the problem.I would say on the average my groups shrank 50% and some even more with the use of these products.What I'm starting to think is,most of the problems are at the throat.The jacket of the bullet is compromised from the start.Here is a group I shot after running the 50 bullets through it.As you can see,I don't think it hurt the barrel at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIvvTxVnx_g

Baldhunter, that sounds like it may be worth a try. Saw they have loaded ammo. Will order some and give it a try!

HeavyBarrel

Heavybarrel,

One other thing you may want to try is taking some business cards and putting some upward pressure on the barrel at the fore-end. Even after all of the work I had done to the 260 I mentioned earlier it still never shot much better until I put some up pressure on the barrel.
Give it a try, it doesn't cost anything.

drover

I've got an ADL that was like that for the first 800 rounds or so... after that, it turned into a real tack driver...

I'm gathering Remington didn't do such a hot job of getting the barrel finished right...

it was a Walmart on sale purchase... I think Remington has all the stuff that should be 'seconds' sold to Walmart for cheap...

where the average Beavis or Butthead is thrilled if it goes bang and they can hit the target 2 out of 5 times at 50 yds...

Just ordered the Tubbs 6mm bullet kit from Midway. I figured what the heck give it a try, sure aint gonna hurt anything. I am going to follow the process to a T and will let yall know what happens. It throws the teaser groups so I think it may have some promise and most of the reviews seem to be positive. Have not read anything about it hurting accuracy.

Heavybarrel

Been cleaning and prepping brass for the Tubbs kit. Used JB's and Butches and spent better than an hour cleaning down to bare steel. May shoot the 70gr TNT, 4064, Rmington Brass load I had worked up that shot decent just to give me a base line on accuracy since it was the best so far.

HeavyBarrel

I had a .308 that shot just like that. The problem was a crooked chamber. The temporary fix was to FL size the cases, and Jam the bullet .010 into the rifling, which is ok at the range but will likely cause problems in the field.

If you try this and it shoots the same groups repeatedly, even if they are around 1", it might be livable until you can get it rebarreled. This won't cost you anything but a trip to the range to try.

I bought this gun to use as a rifle for hunting coyotes and deer so using the magazine is a necessity. If I have to single load it it is really of no use to me.
I once boughthe a remington 300 saum that had a crooked chamber. It would show pressure signs with factory ammo and with very low charge weights of powder. This 243 will easily reach max in the 4 different powders I have tried.

HeavyBarrel

Have you tried another scope on it? I had a CZ 550 in .243 that would not group. Swore it was a problem with the gun and had it bedded and a trigger job done. Still would not group.

I put another scope on it was all of a sudden producing cloverleaf groups. Sent scope to Burris and they fixed it.

I have not tried a different scope. The scope is a brand new leupold vx1 3-9X40. I guess its possible it could be scope. I have never had a bad leupold in the dozens I have and the 40 or 50 I have bought.

HeavyBarrel

???

HeavyBarrel

Ditch that copper solvent you are using and get some of this stuff..

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/694667/m-pro-7-copper-bore-cleaning-solvent-4-oz-liquid

If you a have a proven scope switch it out with that leupold and try it..

Scope is not an issue. put a new 2.5-8 VX3 on today and shot my best load so far and a couple groups with factory. Shot 10 in a 2" group with the best hand-load so far. Shot 6 58gr Hornady Superformance into a 2" group. First 3 were in 1", let gun cool and next three opened up group to 2". Shot 80gr Winchester Factory 3 in to 1.75" group. Pretty much the same as with the VX1 I had on. Inconsistent as before so I know its something with gun. I cleaned and re cleaned bore and it is copper free. This will be a true test for the Tubbs bullets. Should get them this week and hope to get started. Will keep yall posted.

HeavyBarrel

What kind of mounts are you using? I don't use anything but Talley two piece anymore. Wonder if you have a mount issue??

Sometimes the best answer is to get a new rifle or make big changes to the one you have. I have a 223 that shot Ok, but not great. I had it rebarrelled, had the action all trued up, action bedded, new trigger, and such as that. Spent a bunch of money, and it shoots great now. And in the process of that, I had two scopes, one was a Leupold, go bad (wandering POI). Looking back, I should have just sold it and bought a heavy barrel Tikka. The Tikka 260 I have is an amazing shooter.

Of course there's a lot of satisfaction in getting a rifle to shoot well, but sometimes they just won't.

Using Talley aluminum integral ring/base 2 piece.

Have not had a chance to shoot the Tubbs lapping bullets yet. Weather has sucked.

I would like nothing more than to trade it off for a Tikka or Savage. Should have went that route in the first place. Will keep yall informed on how the Tubbs work on this gun. Should be a pretty good test.

HeavyBarrel

200 strokes with J-B Bore paste then another couple hundred strokes with Remington 40x bore cleaner.

Change patches every 50 strokes or so, you should feel the bore getting smoother as you go.

Cleaned with JB's prior to starting the Tubbs bullets today. I am sure I put over 200 strokes of JB's through it prior to starting. I loaded all 50 of the Tubbs bullets this evening and had time to fire the first 10 of the course grit. I cleaned after the 10 like the directions say and they leave the bore pretty dirty. I left solvent in the bore for the night, ran out of time. Will fire the next 10 tomorrow and get the process complete by this weekend and see what happened. Will post results when I am done.

HeavyBarrel

Fired another of the #4 bullets this evening per instructions that came with the kit. Cleaned barrel to get ready for #3 bullets. Did notice that bore cleaned a little quicker this time and the tight spots seem to have been smoothed out a little. Hope to shoot the rest tomorrow weather permitting but I think it is supposed to rain for the next week so unsure when I will get to see if the accuracy improved.

HeavyBarrel

Keep us posted. Interested in how this turns out.

Got 40 through it today. Should finish up tomorrow and hope for some non rainy weather so I can accuracy test. It is noticeably getting smoother.

Will keep yall posted.

HeavyBarrel

Range report. Well I had some ammo loaded up that showed some promise before the Tubbs treatment and it was had not good. 5 shots in 2", tried some 75gr VMax with 4064 with unsatisfactory results. Needless to say I was bumbed out and ready for a re-barrel or just cut my losses and sell it. I decided to try what I had left in a box of Federal Fusion 95gr coated and I am glad I did. The first 3 shots were in one hole. Couldn't believe it so I shot another that was better than 1/2". These two groups were after 15 rounds of copper un-coated bullets. Ran out of Fusion so I went to Walmart and bought two more boxes. Shot a 3/4" 3 shot and another 1/2" 3 shot. This was an improvement for sure! I may just keep the gun the way it is. Wanted to shoot the lighter bullets but it just may not like them. I did have some promising results with Hornady 53gr Superformance ammo prior to the treatment so I may try a box of that and see if it improved. Kind of worried about the layering effect of the Boron Nitride coated Fusion ammo and shooting copper on top of that? Or I may just decide to stay with the Fusion ammo for everything, was trying to set gun up for coyotes and lighter bullets but if the gun likes the Fusion so be it. Got tons of reloading stuff for the 243 and would really like to find something that works but there again I am getting tired of the frustration with my handloads.

HeavyBarrel

I would try a box of factory stuff with lighter bullets.

Have you tried a different set of dies?

I have not tried any different dies nor do I have on concentric gauge.

HeavyBarrel

So it sounds like you did see some improvement after using the Tubb's bullets.My guess the 9 1/8 twist in the Remington does better with the heavier bullets.I remember when Remington brought out the 244 it would not stabilize the 100gr bullets.They changed it to the 6mm to compete with the 243.Here's an article on this.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.2446mm+Remington.html

Got a chronograph?Duplicate the speed of fusion ammo and see what happens.

I do have a chronograph and will try that soon. If it just likes the Fusion than I am okay with that. Fusion is pretty cheap and I probably want shoot it more than 20 times a year anyway. It will be used as a deer/coyote rifle and probably only used after I shoot a buck. Dedicated doe rifle.

The Tubbs system does seem to work! I would use it again if I ever run into another rifle as finicky as this one is, but I will probably stay away from Remington until I start reading better reports. The last 5 or 6 remingtons I have bought have been a less than stellar.

HeavyBarrel

I own, shoot, and reload for 4 Remington 700's chambered in 243. The first is one of the Buckmaster models with 24 inch barrel, it's on permanent loan to my son, who refuses to return it. The next one is an LVSF, on which I switched out the stock to a B&C T1, and converted it to a BDL configuration. The next started out life as a Walmart Black Friday special for $278. Since it was originally an ADL model, I put another Remington stock and bottom metal, making it into a BDL. The last one was also a $278 Black Friday rifle, and it's a 20 inch barrel youth model. With the exception of a different stock, none of these rifles have had anything done to them. No bedding, no after market trigger, no barrel lapping or anything related. Yet, they are all excellent shooting rifles.....for me, anyway. I don't shoot any kind of competition, I'm just a hunter, shooting at deer and coyotes. I rarely shoot at ranges past 300 yards, mainly because that's a long shot in most of the places I hunt. None of those 243's have BDC type scopes, just duplex reticles. Although, I've shot some really good groups out of the LVSF, I can't say that it's any more accurate (for my purposes anyway), than the others. My favorite load for the 243 is 45.5 grains of W760 with the Sierra 85 grain HPBT bullet. This combination shoots great in all 4 of those rifles. The youth model with a not so clear 2X10 Weaver, will routinely shoot inch groups at 200 yards all day long. I shoot other bullets as well, the 58 grain VMax, 65 grain Berger, 70 grain Sierra HP, 90 grain Nosler BT, 95 grain SST, and 100 grain Remington SP. If I have a gripe, it's that while every one of those rifles shoot extremely well with the lighter weight bullets, they are finicky about the 95 and 100 grain bullets. I use W760 in bullet weights from 58 to 85, and have found that with a max load, to slightly above max, they all work. With the heavier weights, I've had to try different powders, such as IMR 4350, IMR 4064, R19, and the 760. Now, I fully realize that my expectations may not be as great as someone else's when it comes to "accuracy", as we all have differing definitions of the term. But, for hunting purposes, I cannot imagine that anyone would expect anymore out of a 243 than what any of my rifles will deliver. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I haven't found a thing wrong with Remington rifles.

I am glad you have had good experience with them. I have not, at least in the last ten or so I have played with. I do have one Sendero I bought about 20 years ago that has had nothing done to it and is a tack driver, but that is the only one. Needless to say i am pretty satisfied with the rifle now. Cant complain about the groups with the Fusion after the Tubbs treatment.

I may have to try the 760, that is one that I have not.

HeavyBarrel

I had one of those I bought from Walmart. Mine was a youth model with 20" barrel. I changed the stock to a full sized one bought in the classifieds. I lightened the trigger to 3#, added a 3-9 VX1 and floated the barrel with the bread wrapper deal. Called it my poor man's mountain rifle. That rifle would shoot 1/2" groups with 70gr TNT's and 4064. Never could get 100gr bullets to shoot quite that well but had a couple loads that were 1" or better consistently. The rifle itself was pretty light and took good form to shoot great groups but was very capable.

Confirmed again that Fusion is the ammo for this rifle with a nice 3/4" 3 shot group this evening. Prior to Tubbs treatment the Hornady superformance was 1 moa and it didn't change. Tested it also. The gun is at least a keeper now!

HeavyBarrel