Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Optics for 2017 Elk hunt

That's a lot of girations that take a fair bit of time. Range, pick a dot, kill. KISS.

I'd bring a rangefinder and a spotter. Some of the worst advice I ever got was "you don't need a spotter elk hunting". Missed out on some good viewing.

Depends "how" you're hunting and the type of elk hunting you're doing.

For a day hike hunt, the additional 5-8 lbs of a spotter and tripod isn't the end of the world. For a multi day backpack hunt, I can't fathom packing one unless you're a bit of a masochist...a spotter is not necessary to locate a bull. Bino's work fine for that, even at several miles.

Micro-managing horns on an expensive trophy hunt is an altogether different thing. Then a spotter can be useful... most on public ground are just after a legal bull, not splitting hairs over inches of antler.

By shooting the load at actual distance. With loads that drop 9-12 inches at 400 yards, and 25-30" at 500, figuring your hold on a bull that measures 30-32" hairline to hairline is not that hard.

Of course at 300 yards it's a chip shot.

Recommending gear to a beginner is a lot different than telling a guy with 30 + elk under his belt,what he "needs". The beginner does not know at all what he's doing so is unsure of what he needs. The guy with the 30 elk knows when he can make a shot and when he can't.

I agree with Brad and Bob and others here as they've the experience. Experience is the ultimate and best teacher.

I would say that to five hundred yards, a practiced shooter who is intimately familiar with his rifle and load, a quiet, calm broadside bull is not difficult to kill with a 4x, 6x, 2-7x, or a 3-9x scope with any generic duplex reticle and no turrets. But is he at five or is it really six hundred yards? Or, is that little canyon so deceiving that he's really closer at 400? That's the problem; I know I don't trust my range estimation in the mountains without LRF. A 18" drop at 400, a 30" drop at 500 are a lot less than a 50-60" drop at 600 yards. So, at this point in my hunting life I would feel downright naked without a LRF just because it is so useful. Never mind that we and you, SU-, killed a lot of game for years without them. They have literally changed the game.

IMO, from 450-500 yards and beyond the gremlins multiply exponentially and much more is demanded of your equipment and you.

To KIS for the OP, workable scopes with a lot of practice with the rifles the OP mentions, good bino's, and good LRF(s) should be more than adequate to begin with.

This!
Definitely upgrade your dads scope and sounds like maybe the rings since you've got it all off.
Look into the minox 16-30x 50 spoter. Small and clear and affordable. If you outgrow it you won't take a big hit if you sell it or if you end up not using it you won't mind the $200 sitting around vs $800+

If a guy is going to limit himself to 30X he could just get a Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50. So far the only scope to beat mine on the optics chart 127 yards away is Nightforce. It is crystal clear from 4 1/2 through 30X. And it only weighs 22.2 ounces. You're going to have a scope on your rifle anyway. One of mine has dots the other has plex.

The extent of my big game hunting to date is sitting in a tree stand with a bow or in a ground blind with a rifle in fairly thick woods. The longest shot I would have ever had to date is ~150 yards down a pipeline so good quality optics have not been all that important to me to this point. However, I have always wanted to chase some big game that is not native to Oklahoma and I have always wanted to hunt the landscapes out west where quality optics can make the difference between success and failure. It appears that it will take me a bit to acquire the “quality” gear needed so after reading through this thread it seems that a better question would be advice on putting together an western hunting gear list by order of importance. Being that this is the optics sub-forum, maybe it makes sense to only tackle the optics gear list here taking into account the gear that I already own but feel free to expand that to cover all necessary gear if you feel so inclined. I believe that good hiking/hunting boots are going to come in near the top if not at the top of that list. Being a still hunter I don’t have layering gear like Sitka either. Man they are proud of that stuff. Is there a brand that offers the same quality but at a more friendly price?

I am definitely going to pull the trigger on either a Vortex Ranger 1500 or a Sig Kilo 2000. I am torn between which so we will see what kind of deals there are on Black Friday.

I don’t mind spending some coin on a nice scope in a lower magnification as that is something that I could use here in OK as well. I have my eye on something like a NightForce NXS 2.5 – 10 but need to do some more research there. Obviously I am a big “value” guy and with the amount of equipment that I need to acquire I want to make my dollar go as far as possible. However, I have 3 boys (12, 10, 7) and one of the legacies I want to leave behind is a really nice rifle/scope set up for each of them whenever our good Lord calls me home so I will be making a “Alpha” glass scope purchase at some point in the near future. If better scope comes in at the top of the list, now is as good of time as any. Also, based on the distances that I have been hunting in the past, I know nothing of twisting turrets and using holdovers. However, That is a skill that I want to learn and develop as I can only increase my odds. I also want to be able to pass that knowledge down to my children.

At the moment, I don’t have much/any need for a spotting scope here in OK so I have a hard time justifying a big spend on a spotting scope that I will only use on 1 hunt a year at best. That could always change but as it stands now, I think the spotting scope has moved down the priority list.

I did a fair amount of reading on the bins as again, I don’t have much use for really nice ones here in OK based on the current land that I hunt. However, I understand the value and versatility of good bins which is why I went with the Tract Torics. I believe that I found a pretty good value with the Torics but I won’t truly know until I put them to the test on a hunt. I am having a hard time getting dad to part with any of his $$ to acquire some good optics so it looks like that burden is going to fall on me.

With all of that said, this is how I see my current optics needs in order of importance. Feel free to disagree and/or make suggestions.


Necessary for this trip
1) LRF: Sig Kilo 2000 or Vortex Ranger 1500
2) Quality Scope: NightForce NXS 2.5–10 x 32 or other VERSITLE scope.

Future Purchase
3) Better Bins if the Tract Torics don’t cut it.
4) Spotting Scope:

If he's looking to buy a Nightforce, then he's clearly not constrained by budgetary concerns.

Were I him, I'd give my father my Sightron, get a good Leupold instead of the Nightforce, and use the remaining money to get the Sig Kilo and a couple pairs of Leupold Yosemites, like Calvin said. You'd prolly still have some coin left for a decent spotting scope, as well, if you wanted one.

I want to get the best value that I can but I can justify spending more on a scope at this moment. However, if all I am getting is an additional 5 or 10 minutes of shooting light through the NightForce over a similar sub 1K scope I would much rather go that route. Honestly I don't have a healthy understanding of the benefits of a NightForce NXS over say a Zeiss Conquest or Leupold VXR. If the differences are marginal I would rather apply the difference towards other gear. I don't want a NighForce just to be able to say that I own a NightForce... which is why I own 2 Sightrons. However, if there us a significant difference in the field it makes sense to go the buy once cry once route.

Not to derail the thread but my priorities would be Bino's and good boots. Loan your dad the Sightron and your good to go.

If I got new glass it would only be to get something lighter in weight so no big gain unless you go 6x for a couple ounce savings. My other priority would be to burn some vacation time and use it to scout the hunting unit you will be in.

This will give you time to assess your equipment too.

The best tool for finding Elk is a Fly Rod. While trying to land a trout I have seen some of the biggest bulls I have ever encountered.

Just re-read this. If you really plan on practicing long(er) ranges than the spotting scope just got bumped up in priority. It is invaluable at the range and the ability to see bullet holes out to your maximum range should be the deciding criteria.

Have hunted near Durango and Pagosa and horses would be on the priority list too. Especially if your Dad is getting up there in age.

Not derailing at all. This exactly the kind of stuff I am looking for. I don't want to spend money just for the sake of spending money. Any recommendations on boots? I have read good things about Kenetrek but man, they are pricey as well. Is there a way to do this economically where I won't regret it? I don't have to have "the best". I am okay with "good enough".

I would check out Sierra Trading Post sometimes they will have Lowas, Asolo or other top brands on clearance. I like the old school Alico boots and would recommend their middle weight model. Even the lighter weight boot would be good.
That and some Obenaufs boot dressing. Get them early so you can make sure they fit and it takes about 50 miles to break them in.

Wading through the myriad of possibilities is difficult. Myself I wear Lowas, three different pairs. Renagades for light and fast , Lowa Tibet GTX if in mountains with backpack, and Sheephunters mt snow. Buy the best you can, your no good without your feet. Make sure to break them in .

I will say one thing about spotting scopes. At 10,000 feet we spotted an elk about 2 miles off at maybe another 500 to 800 ft elevation. We had bull tags. My partner set up his spotting scope up and declared it a cow. I set mine up and found it was a bull. Busted my balls to close the distance and eventually it disapeared into the dark timber.
My point being good glass will have you working harder because you will find more animals . Binos are part of the good glass requirement.

I have an old pre gortex version of these and they have worked well. Sierra Trading Post had a fair selection. Lowa, Scarpa, Pivetta, Alico,and more.



Garmont Civetta Gore-Tex® Hiking Boots - Waterproof (For Men) in Olive - Closeouts

Not if you can do math.

I buy boots from Big 5 and Walmart. They last a few years. I break them in by wearing them around the house or going to town a lot before hunting season. Works like a champ. I get only water proof. If they are for late hunting I get the most thinsulate I can find.

About the alpha glass. You will occasionally see posts on the net that Swarovski binoculars are out standing but the scopes are not reliable. I had four Swarovskis scopes and don't have them anymore. Too sloppy in quality control and reliability.

BS. Good binos (nikon LX in this case) had a tough time assessing horn against the brown morning hillside ground foliage of your very own 9500' madison range hillsides, at about 3/4 mile. I was unable to lob a request that everyone move to the skyline, so the spotter proved very useful at 7 miles from the truck.

Spotter weight gets lost in a successful multi-trip packout.

From the top of the ridge (after I scared all the close subjects-of stalk away), with binos, seeing elk at miles away was certainly easy enough (looking north to open sunlit hillsides on the Sphinx 3+ miles away), but you sure as hell couldn't see horns. Big tan bodies yes.

Hang on a sec here...I think you might be misunderstanding something... don't buy a Nightforce because you are after the absolute best glass or absolute best LOW-light scope. That's not why they are so expensive. The glass in current NXS's is certainly very good but that's not why you buy one. You buy one because you intend to dial the turrets for long-range shooting. At THAT, they are absolutely top tier.

I don't know anything about your Sightron scopes as far as how good they are or are not. However, there are numerous solid upgrade paths that don't require NXS money.

Also... in my experience low-light performance is down the list a ways for an elk hunting scope. At least how and where I hunt them, you almost never see them at dawn, and while they might or might not be active at dusk, the logistical realities for most elk hunters are that they are at a minimum "hunting back towards the rig" as dusk comes on, not sitting on a stand until the bitter end like with some kinds of deer hunting. I have, a number of times, sat until dark watching what I thought was a good spot, and NEVER seen elk in those circumstances. Then you've got a miles-long walk in the dark to deal with. Most guys won't do that. In fact I've stopped doing it; it's just not productive and freaks my camp-mates out when I roll back into camp hours after dark <grin>....

You want a solid, simple scope with some kind of unobtrusive "dots" that allow you to connect out to say 500 yards. Don't need a Nightforce.

Now that being said, the two rifles I hunted elk with the most this year wore Nightforce scopes... they are awesome at what they do...

No luck with bargain boots, but thats just me. Remember once I had bought some boots broke them on walks around the hood and light hikes. The drainage I went down was so steep that my feet kept sliding forward and by the end of the day the toe had completly given out. And I still had to get back to camp. Lucky for me I always take another pair along if possible. Not a back pack hunt obviously. YMMV