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Let me start by apologizing for my ignorance as I am just learning about scopes and the different options as I have never really shot beyond 100 yards. I just read a good breakdown on FFP and SFP and the importance that plays with regards to the reticle on an adjustable magnification scope. With that said, I am looking for a good scope that I can put on top of my Wby Vanguard S2 chambered in .308 which will allow me to shoot out to 400 yards. I am considering a fixed 6X with mil-dots or after reading this I am thinking that a 3-9 or 2.5-10 FFP with mil-dots and an illuminated reticle would give me a more versatile scope. What are the pros and cons of each and could you suggest some scopes under $1,000 I should consider?
Thank you kindly!
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Must have been an even dumber question than I originally gave myself credit for...
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While discontinued, there are still a few floating in the supply chain. These are very, very nice scopes with excellent glass and tracking. Weaver 2-10x36
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Talley low mounts with a Leopold FX2 6X36 with dotz. This will cover 400 yds like a monkey humping a football!!! 😃
The recommendation is in the vested interest of keeping your rifle light and agile while at the same time covering your bases with aplomb.
Trystan
Last edited by Trystan; 11/15/16.
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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I had some friends sell me on the 6-36 Leupold with dotz. Used 3-9's both vx2 & ultralight for many years.
Don't like the 6. I want 3 or 9. The 6 is either too much or not enough. The field of view is too small for my taste.
My first choice is the 3-9 ultralight.
Most on this forum disagree but I have owned at least 10 since their introduction. They are light weight small and tough.
They are the only scope to survive my 7lb 375 improved! It quickly ruin everything else.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Talley low mounts with a Leopold FX2 6X36 with dotz. This will cover 400 yds like a monkey humping a football!!! 😃
The recommendation is in the vested interest of keeping your rifle light and agile while at the same time covering your bases with aplomb.
Trystan I agree with this recommendation other than the analogy of "like a monkey humping a football", which is generally used to mean an exercise in futility and frustration. The fixed Leupold of the 36 or 42mm variety is right up the OP's alley. I am considering a fixed 6X with mil-dots or after reading this I am thinking that a 3-9 or 2.5-10 FFP with mil-dots and an illuminated reticle would give me a more versatile scope. Yes, the variable scopes you mentioned are definitely more versatile.
Last edited by TheBigSky; 11/15/16.
_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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As said above, I can't get on the fixed 6 train. I prefer 3-9 as well. I hunt on 3, but 9 is good for the range and longer shots.
Good Shooting!
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Don' worry - I anticipate pages of answers. Scopes can seem mystifying and you want to spend once rather than find you bought cheaper or wanted a different feature etc... If new to scopes the 6x is nice in that it is repeatable and idiot proof. All mine were 6x with #4 reticles for years. I see too many guys enter the woods with a variable cranked up to highest power from sighting it in only to play hell trying to locate a moving deer with that narrow field of view and limited eye relief. A fixed 6x eliminates that. I figured if all my scopes were 6x I would have repeat ability when judging distance no matter which rifle I was using. The other thing was that for years 6x has ruled the roost where brightness was concerned. Fewer lenses mean less refracted light and brighter images. I saw this when comparing my cheaper Weaver 6x38 to my Dad's older Leupold Vari-X iii.
Fast forward fifteen years or so and what you now have is many more players in the scope market. With that competition came improvements in features such that everyone offers 1/4" click adjustments for example. Something you used to have to go to higher end Leopoldo to get. You also have MUCH brighter variable scopes than in days past. So much so that I compared my newer Vx3 variable to the highly vaunted fixed 6x42 M8 that is a bit older and the variable is brighter across the board. Sure a new 6x should be even brighter but point is new ones are just VERY good- even less expensive ones. So there really isn't much of a need for me to stick with a fixed 6x. When looking at variables people tend to concentrate on maximum power ability but one thing using them has taught me is how much I prefer going down to 3 or 4x and gaining a much wider field of view for stuff inside 200 or 100 yds. An enormous benefit. Combine that with learning how to use the off side eye correctly ( leaving it open and on the target while your rifle comes in to firing position- easy to practice) to quickly get on target and you have some real improved capabilities.
For ranging Leupold has a great method and like you most of my shooting has been around one hundred yards but I used the Boone & Crockett reticle to kill a walking boar at 400yds. Google how to use it or read the instructions.
All this is for deer and pigs. Long range target and prairie dog hunting is where Ffp and Sfp come in to my mind. Unless that is the case then try not to overthink. The Burris Ballistic Plex is a great reticle for distances too but Nikon and others all have them. I think Leupold and one Meopta I have do the best jobs of allowing for quick range guessing.
Hope I am not just jawin' stuff you already know- sorry if that is the case.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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Let me start by apologizing for my ignorance as I am just learning about scopes and the different options as I have never really shot beyond 100 yards. I just read a good breakdown on FFP and SFP and the importance that plays with regards to the reticle on an adjustable magnification scope. With that said, I am looking for a good scope that I can put on top of my Wby Vanguard S2 chambered in .308 which will allow me to shoot out to 400 yards. I am considering a fixed 6X with mil-dots or after reading this I am thinking that a 3-9 or 2.5-10 FFP with mil-dots and an illuminated reticle would give me a more versatile scope. What are the pros and cons of each and could you suggest some scopes under $1,000 I should consider?
Thank you kindly!
The problem, and the reason people didn't respond right away, is that your usage and application of said scope is unclear. You mention shooting out to 400 yards, but you also mention mil-dots and an IR. Is this scope for hunting, targets out to 400, will it be used in thick bush, why do you feel you need IR? Some pros and cons of each are: Fixed 6x - Enough mag but not too much, though perhaps not ideal for close encounters or long shots - Less moving parts, so increased durability and optical brightness - Simplicity, less to think about in the heat of the moment Variable 3-9 - More versatile and customizable to the application - More moving parts means less durable, less optically impressive, and greater likelihood of error in high-pressure situations (scope on 9x when a critter jumps up at 10 yards, etc) If you use a scope with decent optics and a good reticle, an IR is not necessary. For what I think is your intended purpose, I'd be looking at the SWFA 6x/MQ reticle, or 3-9x42 HD/MQ. If you can stretch a bit over $1000 the Bushnell 3-12x44 LRHS is fantastic. If you're not wanting to dial and simply use a reticle to get to 400 yards, the viable options open up considerably, but most guys that are experienced with shooting at distance prefer to dial, so you need a scope that will be dependable when the turrets are zipped up and down a bunch. The scope needs to track with your inputted adjustments correctly, return to zero every time, hold zero, etc, and there aren't many options that will take a licking and keep on doing what you expect them to.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Don' worry - I anticipate pages of answers. Scopes can seem mystifying and you want to spend once rather than find you bought cheaper or wanted a different feature etc... If new to scopes the 6x is nice in that it is repeatable and idiot proof. All mine were 6x with #4 reticles for years. I see too many guys enter the woods with a variable cranked up to highest power from sighting it in only to play hell trying to locate a moving deer with that narrow field of view and limited eye relief. A fixed 6x eliminates that. I figured if all my scopes were 6x I would have repeat ability when judging distance no matter which rifle I was using. The other thing was that for years 6x has ruled the roost where brightness was concerned. Fewer lenses mean less refracted light and brighter images. I saw this when comparing my cheaper Weaver 6x38 to my Dad's older Leupold Vari-X iii.
Fast forward fifteen years or so and what you now have is many more players in the scope market. With that competition came improvements in features such that everyone offers 1/4" click adjustments for example. Something you used to have to go to higher end Leopoldo to get. You also have MUCH brighter variable scopes than in days past. So much so that I compared my newer Vx3 variable to the highly vaunted fixed 6x42 M8 that is a bit older and the variable is brighter across the board. Sure a new 6x should be even brighter but point is new ones are just VERY good- even less expensive ones. So there really isn't much of a need for me to stick with a fixed 6x. When looking at variables people tend to concentrate on maximum power ability but one thing using them has taught me is how much I prefer going down to 3 or 4x and gaining a much wider field of view for stuff inside 200 or 100 yds. An enormous benefit. Combine that with learning how to use the off side eye correctly ( leaving it open and on the target while your rifle comes in to firing position- easy to practice) to quickly get on target and you have some real improved capabilities.
For ranging Leupold has a great method and like you most of my shooting has been around one hundred yards but I used the Boone & Crockett reticle to kill a walking boar at 400yds. Google how to use it or read the instructions.
All this is for deer and pigs. Long range target and prairie dog hunting is where Ffp and Sfp come in to my mind. Unless that is the case then try not to overthink. The Burris Ballistic Plex is a great reticle for distances too but Nikon and others all have them. I think Leupold and one Meopta I have do the best jobs of allowing for quick range guessing.
Hope I am not just jawin' stuff you already know- sorry if that is the case. Not jawin' at all. This was a very helpfull post, as have several others. Obviously there is not a "right" answer but reading through these helps me consider things that I have not in the past. Ultimately, I am trying to find a good setup for my Wby Vanguard S2 .308 rifle that will perform well from 50 yards out to 400 yards on Hog through Elk.
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Let me start by apologizing for my ignorance as I am just learning about scopes and the different options as I have never really shot beyond 100 yards. I just read a good breakdown on FFP and SFP and the importance that plays with regards to the reticle on an adjustable magnification scope. With that said, I am looking for a good scope that I can put on top of my Wby Vanguard S2 chambered in .308 which will allow me to shoot out to 400 yards. I am considering a fixed 6X with mil-dots or after reading this I am thinking that a 3-9 or 2.5-10 FFP with mil-dots and an illuminated reticle would give me a more versatile scope. What are the pros and cons of each and could you suggest some scopes under $1,000 I should consider?
Thank you kindly!
The problem, and the reason people didn't respond right away, is that your usage and application of said scope is unclear. You mention shooting out to 400 yards, but you also mention mil-dots and an IR. Is this scope for hunting, targets out to 400, will it be used in thick bush, why do you feel you need IR? Some pros and cons of each are: Fixed 6x - Enough mag but not too much, though perhaps not ideal for close encounters or long shots - Less moving parts, so increased durability and optical brightness - Simplicity, less to think about in the heat of the moment Variable 3-9 - More versatile and customizable to the application - More moving parts means less durable, less optically impressive, and greater likelihood of error in high-pressure situations (scope on 9x when a critter jumps up at 10 yards, etc) If you use a scope with decent optics and a good reticle, an IR is not necessary. For what I think is your intended purpose, I'd be looking at the SWFA 6x/MQ reticle, or 3-9x42 HD/MQ. If you can stretch a bit over $1000 the Bushnell 3-12x44 LRHS is fantastic. If you're not wanting to dial and simply use a reticle to get to 400 yards, the viable options open up considerably, but most guys that are experienced with shooting at distance prefer to dial, so you need a scope that will be dependable when the turrets are zipped up and down a bunch. The scope needs to track with your inputted adjustments correctly, return to zero every time, hold zero, etc, and there aren't many options that will take a licking and keep on doing what you expect them to. Sorry about that. I am really looking for something that I can still use here in Oklahoma where I don't typically have a shot past 150 yards and on hunts chasing Elk, Mulies, sheep, etc. out west (haven't done this yet but will be next year). The reason I mentioned the IR is that I believe that I read somewhere that on a variable FFP scope (which I just assume is better than SFP) the reticle can become difficult to see when increasing power. I am not apposed to dialing but based on what I have read i don't think I will be shooting past 400 yards due to the limitations of this particular caliber. That and I assume that holdovers are easier than dialing.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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FFP reticles are harder to see when decreasing power.
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FFP reticles are harder to see when decreasing power. Thanks for the correction. Still learning.
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SWFA SS 6x MQ is a fantastic value. Tracking/RTZ completely reliable on the 3 that I have owned. Glass is surprisingly good for the price point.
SWFA SS 3-9x42HD MQ is a better hunting scope for my uses. Tracking/RTZ again, completely reliable. Reticle is thicker at higher magnifications, thick posts nicely center the crosshairs for lowere magnification/lower light use. Years past has been available for $450 from SWFA on their black Friday sale. Glass is pretty good. Knobs are slightly smaller and stiffer. The windage knob doesn't poke me in the side on weak side carry, never had a turret get knocked off even one click. Use mine for the exact type of hunting/practice you describe - thick cover white tails to open country mule deer, practice on steel to 600yds.
David
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If you want to spend $1000 for a scope there some very high quality options out there. I've played with a few scope set ups and one of my favorites is the Nikon Pro-Staff 3-9X40. You can pick them up for a bit under $200. They come with either a duplex reticle or a bullet drop compensator reticle. I like the plain duplex reticle. I've paid about the same money for scopes that are junk. But the Nikon Pro Staff 3-9X40 isn't junk. It looks like a quality piece of work and it functions like a quality piece of work. I bet they would sell more of them if they upped the price $150. People see the $180 price tag on them and can't believe that it's a quality piece of work,...but it is. http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-riflescope-prostaff-3-9x40.html
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Oh yea or you could get a Nikon prostaff....grin
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Let me start by apologizing for my ignorance as I am just learning about scopes and the different options as I have never really shot beyond 100 yards. I just read a good breakdown on FFP and SFP and the importance that plays with regards to the reticle on an adjustable magnification scope. With that said, I am looking for a good scope that I can put on top of my Wby Vanguard S2 chambered in .308 which will allow me to shoot out to 400 yards. I am considering a fixed 6X with mil-dots or after reading this I am thinking that a 3-9 or 2.5-10 FFP with mil-dots and an illuminated reticle would give me a more versatile scope. What are the pros and cons of each and could you suggest some scopes under $1,000 I should consider?
Thank you kindly!
The problem, and the reason people didn't respond right away, is that your usage and application of said scope is unclear. You mention shooting out to 400 yards, but you also mention mil-dots and an IR. Is this scope for hunting, targets out to 400, will it be used in thick bush, why do you feel you need IR? Some pros and cons of each are: Fixed 6x - Enough mag but not too much, though perhaps not ideal for close encounters or long shots - Less moving parts, so increased durability and optical brightness - Simplicity, less to think about in the heat of the moment Variable 3-9 - More versatile and customizable to the application - More moving parts means less durable, less optically impressive, and greater likelihood of error in high-pressure situations (scope on 9x when a critter jumps up at 10 yards, etc) If you use a scope with decent optics and a good reticle, an IR is not necessary. For what I think is your intended purpose, I'd be looking at the SWFA 6x/MQ reticle, or 3-9x42 HD/MQ. If you can stretch a bit over $1000 the Bushnell 3-12x44 LRHS is fantastic. If you're not wanting to dial and simply use a reticle to get to 400 yards, the viable options open up considerably, but most guys that are experienced with shooting at distance prefer to dial, so you need a scope that will be dependable when the turrets are zipped up and down a bunch. The scope needs to track with your inputted adjustments correctly, return to zero every time, hold zero, etc, and there aren't many options that will take a licking and keep on doing what you expect them to. Sorry about that. I am really looking for something that I can still use here in Oklahoma where I don't typically have a shot past 150 yards and on hunts chasing Elk, Mulies, sheep, etc. out west (haven't done this yet but will be next year). The reason I mentioned the IR is that I believe that I read somewhere that on a variable FFP scope (which I just assume is better than SFP) the reticle can become difficult to see when increasing power. I am not apposed to dialing but based on what I have read i don't think I will be shooting past 400 yards due to the limitations of this particular caliber. That and I assume that holdovers are easier than dialing. I'd be in SWFA SS 6x mode, and if you have decent eyes I don't think you'll miss the IR at all. You can take the .308 way passed 400 yards. Dialing dope is easier than holding over, and more accurate also.
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Let me start by apologizing for my ignorance as I am just learning about scopes and the different options as I have never really shot beyond 100 yards. I just read a good breakdown on FFP and SFP and the importance that plays with regards to the reticle on an adjustable magnification scope. With that said, I am looking for a good scope that I can put on top of my Wby Vanguard S2 chambered in .308 which will allow me to shoot out to 400 yards. I am considering a fixed 6X with mil-dots or after reading this I am thinking that a 3-9 or 2.5-10 FFP with mil-dots and an illuminated reticle would give me a more versatile scope. What are the pros and cons of each and could you suggest some scopes under $1,000 I should consider?
Thank you kindly!
The only one I can think of that meets your criteria is well outside the price range you specified. The Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42 with the illuminated MILR is a fantastic scope, but alas, is in the $1600 - $1800 range. The best option in the price range you mentioned is the SWFA SS 3-9x42 with the Mil-Quad reticle. I would say the fixed 6x but the reticle is a little fine as the light fades. The 3-9 is much better in that regard. The 3-9 zero retention, tracking and return to zero are legendary. Absolutely great scope for the $ and the reticle is bold enough that I don't think you'll miss the illum. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Don't know if weight is a concern but some of those tactical scopes with dials and illumination can get heavy especially if you are lugging it around for hunting.
Scott
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