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Joined: Mar 2003
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Kahuna Emeritus & Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,423 |
Steve,
Do you recall what twist rate they were going to use? No idea, but I'd guess 1:12 or 1:14. I pulled one of the Oehler test sheets from my file. The barrel is 26-inch Wiseman, but the twist-rate is not identified. The particular load on the sheet is 31.0 grains of H-335 behind the 40-grain Ballistic Tip. Muzzle velocity averaged 4,111 fps; ES is 38 fps and the SD is 14. The five-shot group measured .39-inches. Interestingly, they identify the brass as Federal; why not Nosler???? Below is the data sheet from Nosler. This might piss off some industry folks, but I'm not a part of the firearms industry any more ... as if I ever was.
"God Loves Each Of Us As If There Were Only One Of Us" Saint Augustine of Hippo - AD 397
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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They would be missing the boat if they twisted that at 12-14" But boats have been missed before....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,808
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
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For no practical reason, I would prefer to see it be a .220 Swift AI without the semi-rim. Seems it would make more sense and be more in keeping with the apparent philosophy behind their other proprietary rounds (bigger, faster, badder, long-rangers.) It could make a sizzler of a varmint round and they might even develop a bullet in the 70 - 75 grain range specifically for pronghorn, deer, whatever...
I don't see where much of anything else mentioned as possibilities doesn't do much that's not already being done.
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I was sworn to secrecy about the .223 Weatherby project at the time. It's now several years later, so I guess it's now OK to talk about it. By this time, both the folks at Nosler and at Weatherby have totally forgotten about an elderly has-been minor gun writer, so "It don't mean nothin'". Glad to see ya come clean.....I've know about that for quite a while, and a pity they didn't follow through. However, I don't believe the case print of the new round is close to the 223 Weatherby. [/quote]
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,314 Likes: 1 |
Steve,
Thank you. Always wondered about that.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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very near 6mm Hagar case dims
.... like tears in the rain
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
My guess (and it's a total guess ) would be that Bob is going to revive the .223 Weatherby project. Basically, that case is the .223 Ackley Improved with Weatherby's signature Powell-Miller venturi shoulder. The case capacity is identical to the .223 Ackley. Nosler's Ballistic Lab did all of the development work on the .223 Weatherby and I have several of the Oehler printout sheets on it. Keeping chamber pressure UNDER SAAMI for the .223 Remington, the Improved case yields a cool 4,000 fps with 40-grainers, 3,700 fps with 50s and 3,500 with 55-grain bullets. Weatherby was about to introduce the round and I even wrote a cartridge profile for the Nosler Reloading Manual ... when Weatherby suddenly decided to drop the project. Frankly, it was a huge waste of my time and effort, trying to help the folks out. Water under the bridge now, but it was a bit of a piss-off. Rumor had it, at the time, that Weatherby supplied one-million Norma cases to Nosler for the cartridge load development. Maybe Nosler held onto the cases and decided to go forward with the project themselves. Anyway, that would be my guess. God Bless, Steve PS. I was sworn to secrecy about the .223 Weatherby project at the time. It's now several years later, so I guess it's now OK to talk about it. By this time, both the folks at Nosler and at Weatherby have totally forgotten about an elderly has-been minor gun writer, so "It don't mean nothin'". Steve, Do you have the case dimensions for the abandoned 223 Weatherby? Thanks!
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
The 223 Weatherby would be a fun round, for sure. Why would they wait on that one?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Good to see this..if they are loading 77 grainers, they are twisting it fast....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2001
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Good to see this..if they are loading 77 grainers, they are twisting it fast.... My thoughts exactly. From Nosler's own webpage, here is a 77gr .22 bullet. Note the twist requirements. John
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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This could be good......hope somebody besides Nosler chambers a proper rifle for it...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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Last edited by gerrygoat; 01/08/17. Reason: added link
Gerry.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
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Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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Steve,
The .223 Weatherby (like the .223 AI) did NOT get those velocities at those pressures, which is why Weatherby abandoned it.
The original pressure-testing was done with strain-gauge equipment, which can result in unreliable pressure readings, due to several factors, often lower than actual pressures. Strain-gauges can work fine, but since there wasn't any "reference" ammo there was no way to check the original load work-up. More work in other labs indicated pressures were much higher.
This happens occasionally. Chub told me years ago that the Nosler lab's results with the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved showed higher velocities with less pressure than the .25-06, which has at least 10% more powder room than the .257 AI. But neither of the two major piezo pressure labs I'm acquainted with have ever been able to find any magic velocities due to case shape. Instead they report that the only way to get more velocity at the same pressure is to use a larger-capacity cartridge.
The reason many wildcats SEEM to produce the same velocity as larger cartridges is traditional "pressure signs" normally don't appear until pressures are in the 70,000 PSI range, and often even higher. This is exactly why 7mm STW velocities reported by various shooters (including Layne Simpson) dropped around 200 fps when Remington introduced the STW commercially. Widely-used handloads developed far more pressure than SAAMI considers acceptable for ammunition to be fired in a wide variety of rifles in a wide variety of conditions.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Looks like they designed it for AR rifles which I have no interest in since they are restricted here but I would have interest in a bolt action or single shot rechambered to the 22 Nosler.
Last edited by gerrygoat; 01/08/17.
Gerry.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Looks like they designed it for AR rifles which I have no interest in since they are restricted here but I would have interest in a bolt or single action rechambered to the 22 Nosler. I have a Interarms Mini-Mauser that could be re-barreled to .22 Nosler. Should be a fun little cartridge to use on coyotes.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Tracker
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Looking at the cartridge dimensions of the 223 the 22 Nosler is a bit shorter so a 223 would have to be set back first and then rechambered. Case length and OAL are the same.
Gerry.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I think it'd be a waste of time in a bolt gun.
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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That may be but I'll still think about it..........
Gerry.
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