Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Jerry Wanted To Die

Spot on & in the end, this incident surely will do nothing to further the (badly needed) credibility of the PoPo's.

At least with about 90% of the populace.

Everybody loses.

MM

Ok last one.

Cop confronts drunk. Claims drunk is, what is the correct terminology for "not of his right mind because drunk" and is therefore impaired.

But, later when in court, "everything you say can and will be used against you" comes up, AS IF YOU WERE IN YOUR RIGHT MIND. Like a drunk never said anything false or stupid in the history of mankind!!

On the one hand impaired and lacking judgement, on the other hand, "Oh yes, the defendant confessed to kicking puppies your honor". And we believe him because he told us that when he was DRUNK!

Just thinking out loud.

Poor stupid Jerry.

Everybody a Monday morning drill sergeant. The cops went from verbal commands to two tazer attempts. There aren't any long range tazers - cops use what their city or county gives them for force options. Cops aren't trained to disarm assailants with deadly weapons. Batons and PR-24's are frowned upon as too imposing to the public. There still are plenty of ASP's out there though. Some here watch too much television and have unrealistic opinions.
Drunk, sober or suicidal, Jerry forced the issue. Society insists on body cams to document actions. Well, you saw it and if you dislike what the cops did, don't call 911. Take care of it yourself.

Jerry got himself killed. Were I one of the cops I'd have bumped him with the cruiser. Jerry appeared so drunk he would have gone down from a soft bump. JMHO

Bigwhoop.

I've done it. Knives and guns. Coulda killed on three different occasions and been legally justified. Didn't have to. Instinct and discretion.

These cops did what they did. They aren't heroes here. Maybe they have been. Maybe they will be. But here, they weren't.

That's just me.

As a retired bouncer, I have some experience handling belligerent drunks. Not armed, but also had to deal with them at close range, in dark places, with lots of people around.

Talking a drunk down is a very easily acquired skill. It's not rocket science. If that doesn't work, give him half a fifth, and he puts himself out.

The problem with these scenarios is that the cops want it fixed NOW, THEIR WAY, RIGHT NOW. What's the dam hurry? They get paid by the hour?

Thread title says it all.

It's almost funny to read these scamps (who have no LE training) comment on how the cops in question were "untrained", "trained to kill", and so forth.

Several folks have repeated the assumptions that of' Jerry was just drunk, he wasn't no real threat, etc. but these are the sorts of assumptions that get people killed. These cops have been trained to know it, too. Every police academy in America teaches cops that making assumptions like that can get them killed.

"Ol' Jerry was just a harmless old drunk." Really? And you know this how? You roll up on this domestic like these cops did, you know NOTHING except he's already committed domestic violence of some kind and he's got a knife he refuses to drop. He may be highly trained in knife fighting. He may not be drunk at all, but only has booze spilled on his clothes.

He may be 60+, or he may be 40-something. Appearances can be deceiving. Regardless, I've seen trained and fit old guys whip young guys' asses barehanded. What if this guy is martial arts trained and really knows how to use that knife? An expert with an 8" knife could fillet 3 guys in seconds at close quarters.

He may be drunk. Doesn't matter, really. I've fought guys with BAC's in the .020-.030 range who were phugking demons, and so has every cop who's done serious patrol time.

Again, he may not be drunk. He may be on PCP or "synthetic", and that could explain the Taser's ineffectiveness. I've seen a stoner on PCP take 3 full rides from Tasers and not even flinch. There's a training film out there that shows a naked guy on PCP with a knife slice n dice a female officer while being teased multiple times, then smash through a board fence bare-handed, then cut off his own penis with the knife with no apparent pain and then charge the cops with the knife again. Want to try to disarm that guy with a baton? I don't.

Listen, I don't care one way or another what you armchair experts' opinions are on the conduct of these officers. If you haven't done the training, you're not qualified to render an opinion. If you haven't dealt with these situations in the street, you're again not qualified. Your naive assumptions clearly disqualify your opinions as far as I am concerned.

The only people whose opinions mattered here were the people who sat on the board of inquiry and/or grand jury. THEY most assuredly had the training, the experience, and the legal knowledge to exonerate these officers.

The rest of this is just blather.

This^^^.

Yup, me too, I wouldn't have shot the old idiot, but I'm kinda stupid that way.

.. Off to LiveLeak I go...

Dutch, all due respect and all, but fighting belligerent drunks at a bar is a very different animal from fighting a deranged criminal who hates cops and wants to really, really hurt the guy in the uniform.

I'm inclined to agree with Dan Chamberlain in that I would probably have handled it differently. But it may not have produced better result in the end. These guys got the fight they got, and they did what they did, and they were not found liable for wrong-doing. It's all over now.

Jerry got what he was lookin' for,....I have NO problem with his timely demise,....that's between him and those three cops.

What's out there in the training curricula re: fields of fire, and bystander safety ?

Just kinda' curious

GTC

Haven't seen an answer when I first asked, so I'll ask again.

Are beanbag rounds used for this type of encounter or are they reserved to disperse crowds and other non-threatening types of situations. What's the SOP on those? Officer discretion and availability?

IMHO this is unrealistic. There are a whole bunch of people who do not sit on the board of inquiry nor the grand jury but who do, in fact, vote. These are the people who put the LEO commanders in office because they VOTE. Their opinions matter, IMHO.

You know, I've fought with drunk inmates a bunch of times. I've dumped entire cans of FOX O.C. square in their face and they kept fighting. I've seen it take 4 officers to keep one down.

Crazy drunk, with the pertinent word being crazy.

Get withing 25 feet on me with a 6" filet knife and time for less than lethal tactics is over. Getting within touching distance, ain't gonna happen.

Rule #1 is I go home safe and sound.

I would have shot him.

Greg, to answer your question, these cops performed at what I would call a basic patrol competency level. I don't think they were trained in team-fighting, but that's an assumption based on very limited information.

One of these cops considered it. You can hear him say he's got "less-lethal" in his squad, then he curses because he knows he can't go back for it now.

It might have worked, you never know. 12-gauge beanbags hurt like a [bleep], and can change a subject's mind in a hurry. But ol' Jerry's lack of response to the Tasers suggests otherwise. Tasers are, of course, less-lethal response as well.

Those opinions matter on two fronts. First, in the political arena. Good luck with that, I wish you well. Second, and more important, is when people watch it and make a mental note that they might not want to do like Ol' Jerry did if they want to keep on living. That's all the opinions that matter.