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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83 |
Double action revolvers are my favorite handguns, but I've never really focused hard on shooting them double action until a couple of years ago. My trigger control has improved but controlling the revolver is more difficult. Unless the grip is made of soft rubber like a Hogue monogrip or the old Lett grips that Ruger used to put on their GP100, I can't seem to control the squirm. With any wooden grip (except the huge old S&W target grips) the gun rotates clockwise (looking down at it) and jumps up in my fist incrementally. This, of course, causes my second shot to strike a different POI. I've tried gripping harder with different fingers and I've tried several different grips to no avail. I've considered getting full checkered wood grips from Herretts, but that's quite an investment. I'd rather improve my technique.
I really want to be able to use wood grips on my favorite Smiths, can anyone help? Probably I should mention that I have relatively small hands, so I can't use grips that cover the backstrap.
A man's capacity is usually relative to his goals. -Karl Erlich, The Sea Chase
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
It's an old book, but Fast And Fancy Revolver Shooting is actually an excellent training manual for becoming highly proficient in the practical use of double action revolvers. Ed McGivern didn't write the title. The publishers did, thinking it would sell books. Misleading.
It was through the study of this book, and applying it's methods, that I became very good with double action revolvers in not very much time at all. Should work for you too.
Be prepared to develop a blister, then a callus, on your trigger finger if you actually follow his training instructions.
One thing he doesn't mention is snap caps. Use them. Saves wear on the firing pin and the pin hole.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 872
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 872 |
Are you staging the trigger?
"The world breaks everyone,and afterward, some are strong at the broken places" Hemingway
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,213 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,213 Likes: 5 |
Sounds like you have solved your problem with the hogue grips already.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
Are you staging the trigger? That could be the problem. Hacks have taught people to stage double action triggers from days of old. It's wrongheaded. The double action pull needs to sweep all the way through, from start to finish, without delay or change in pace, all the while keeping the sights aligned on the target.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83 |
No, I'm not staging the trigger. I pull straight through. It's the recoil that makes the gun squirm.
The Hogue grips do solve the problem, but they're a crutch. I'd like to solve this problem by improving ME, not the gun.
A man's capacity is usually relative to his goals. -Karl Erlich, The Sea Chase
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
No, I'm not staging the trigger. I pull straight through. It's the recoil that makes the gun squirm.
The Hogue grips do solve the problem, but they're a crutch. I'd like to solve this problem by improving ME, not the gun. The grips solve your problem, so good enough. Not a crutch. The human hand has its limits in anchoring down tiny, poorly fitting, grips under recoil. That's the good thing about revolvers. You can get grips that fit you.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
Just wondering, how are you gripping the gun....Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,177 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,177 Likes: 7 |
Have you tried adjusting the position of your trigger finger?
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
No, I'm not staging the trigger. I pull straight through. It's the recoil that makes the gun squirm.
The Hogue grips do solve the problem, but they're a crutch. I'd like to solve this problem by improving ME, not the gun. The grips solve your problem, so good enough. Not a crutch. The human hand has its limits in anchoring down tiny, poorly fitting, grips under recoil. That's the good thing about revolvers. You can get grips that fit you. i recently bought a small hand cannon. a ruger 2.75 incher in 41magnum, came with those smooth ruger grips. I understand that they were made that way to have the revolver roll in your hand. I don't want to have the revolver roll in my hand. So they were replaced with sticky rubber grips. I am also one of those wierdo's that likes the smith target style grips. Each to there own, but for sure it's not the same for everybody.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,436
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,436 |
When you grip the gun make sure the backstrap is right on the heel of you hand, you should not be able to see it. Looked at from above the barrel should be lined up with your arm bone.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83 |
Good suggestion about McGivern's book, I have it and have enjoyed studying it. As far as how hard I grip, I've tried I've tried gripping as hard as I can but that makes trigger control much harder. McGivern suggests a moderate grip pressure. I do hold the revolver so that it is in line with my forearm and with the top of the backstrap even with the web of my hand, so that my grip is as high as possible. Normally I use even pressure among all four fingers, but I've tried pressing extra hard with my pinky or with my middle finger. I can't vary the placement of my trigger finger much. If I have the gun lined up with my arm, I can only engage the trigger with the last pad of my finger. On a GP, it hits at the first joint.
A man's capacity is usually relative to his goals. -Karl Erlich, The Sea Chase
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
Are you staging the trigger? That could be the problem. Hacks have taught people to stage double action triggers from days of old. It's wrongheaded. The double action pull needs to sweep all the way through, from start to finish, without delay or change in pace, all the while keeping the sights aligned on the target. I never knew I was a hack, thanks for the info. In my day we used DA revolvers on embassy duty. I ended up instructing at Quantico after my tours overseas. Thumbing the hammer was NEVER done, strictly verboten. We were taught, and taught our students, to master two different trigger pulls with the DA revolver. Un-interrupted trigger pull - a smooth straight-through pull, used for close range, typically inside 15 yards. Interrupted trigger pull - a quick stage that snaps the cylinder into it's next index, and followed by a squeeze to fire. Typically for 15+ yards. The two both work and have their application. The caveat is that we spent hours/days/weeks dry firing and building muscle memory. I mean to the point of blistered and bleeding trigger fingers. (I had a real admiration of Marines on the live fire range with taped fingers, and blood dripping off the triggerguard of their S&W Model 19, and putting them in the black from 3 to 25 yards). Most civvy's don't have the time or inclination to train to that level. I get that. And most civ shooting schools I've looked at online, are 1-2 days at best, with minimal dry-fire or live-fire.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I lay a quarter on the top strap and dry fire double action, making sure the quarter doesn't fall.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
And the 'staging the trigger' is taught by hacks is a bunch of BS too, as Shane already explained.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 872
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 872 |
I was actually suggesting that he try it.
"The world breaks everyone,and afterward, some are strong at the broken places" Hemingway
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
I shoot DA's more accurately with a staged trigger than shooting the same gun SA whether offhand or from a rest. My best groups from a rest are 1" at 50 yds, no bs.
It makes sense as with a staged trigger your hand is in tension and you can hold the gun more solidly.
The value of frequent quality dry firing can't be underscored to develop proficiency with handguns.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
Are you staging the trigger? That could be the problem. Hacks have taught people to stage double action triggers from days of old. It's wrongheaded. The double action pull needs to sweep all the way through, from start to finish, without delay or change in pace, all the while keeping the sights aligned on the target. I never knew I was a hack, thanks for the info. They put the single action there as an option for a reason. No need for developing a staging technique for distance shooting. For the vast majority of self-defense utilization of a double action revolver, a straight through double action pull is the only appropriate method. YMMV.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Are you staging the trigger? That could be the problem. Hacks have taught people to stage double action triggers from days of old. It's wrongheaded. The double action pull needs to sweep all the way through, from start to finish, without delay or change in pace, all the while keeping the sights aligned on the target. I never knew I was a hack, thanks for the info. They put the single action there as an option for a reason. No need for developing a staging technique for distance shooting. For the vast majority of self-defense utilization of a double action revolver, a straight through double action pull is the only appropriate method. YMMV. God damn, you're a frigging tool. From being an expert on goat and elk hunting, Dakota rifles etc in the early days to this crap. Amazing what you've done in your parent's basement.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
With mastery of an interrupted trigger pull, there is no need to break your shooting grip (to thumb the hammer). It's very fast, but still very deliberate.
It does require a serious commitment to training.
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