Are you staging the trigger?

No, I'm not staging the trigger. I pull straight through. It's the recoil that makes the gun squirm.

The Hogue grips do solve the problem, but they're a crutch. I'd like to solve this problem by improving ME, not the gun.

The grips solve your problem, so good enough. Not a crutch. The human hand has its limits in anchoring down tiny, poorly fitting, grips under recoil. That's the good thing about revolvers. You can get grips that fit you.

That could be the problem. Hacks have taught people to stage double action triggers from days of old. It's wrongheaded. The double action pull needs to sweep all the way through, from start to finish, without delay or change in pace, all the while keeping the sights aligned on the target.

I never knew I was a hack, thanks for the info.

They put the single action there as an option for a reason. No need for developing a staging technique for distance shooting. For the vast majority of self-defense utilization of a double action revolver, a straight through double action pull is the only appropriate method. YMMV.

Does anyone know what was the standard method of training for law enforcement in the big departments was before the switch to semiautos?

Was it only an uninterrupted trigger pull? Was the interrupted trigger pull (staging) also taught? Was thumbing the hammer taught?

Serious questions.

They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.

A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.

If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action.

Double action revolvers are my favorite handguns, but I've never really focused hard on shooting them double action until a couple of years ago. My trigger control has improved but controlling the revolver is more difficult. Unless the grip is made of soft rubber like a Hogue monogrip or the old Lett grips that Ruger used to put on their GP100, I can't seem to control the squirm. With any wooden grip (except the huge old S&W target grips) the gun rotates clockwise (looking down at it) and jumps up in my fist incrementally. This, of course, causes my second shot to strike a different POI. I've tried gripping harder with different fingers and I've tried several different grips to no avail. I've considered getting full checkered wood grips from Herretts, but that's quite an investment. I'd rather improve my technique.

I really want to be able to use wood grips on my favorite Smiths, can anyone help? Probably I should mention that I have relatively small hands, so I can't use grips that cover the backstrap.

I don't know what classifies as "precision" but I sure as fugk don't see many PPC shooters thumbing the hammer from the 50.

I also wouldn't want them aiming at my dick from the 50.

And I got a small dick.

Dave

With mastery of an interrupted trigger pull, there is no need to break your shooting grip (to thumb the hammer). It's very fast, but still very deliberate.


It does require a serious commitment to training.

They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.

A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.

If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action.

If taught properly DA shooting isn't very hard and I find it more accurate than SA shooting...

God damn, you're a frigging tool. From being an expert on goat and elk hunting, Dakota rifles etc in the early days to this crap.

Amazing what you've done in your parent's basement.

So a dollar per 200 cases?

Daily quality dry-fire practice. Make every hammer release count and when you find you can no longer hold a good sight picture call it a day. Only practice and re-enforce a solid release, might only be a dozen or so "shots" the first time. You should be able to work up to 100's of dry-fire "shots", but put your full concentration and consider every "shot" as if your life depended on it. It's surprising how when you really concentrate on sight picture and squeezing off a shot it is very mentally fatiguing.

I'd say put in a couple weeks of quality dry-fire practice before your next range session and you should be amazed at the improvement in your shooting.

Hacks have taught people to stage double action triggers from days of old. It's wrongheaded. The double action pull needs to sweep all the way through, from start to finish, without delay or change in pace, all the while keeping the sights aligned on the target.

Are you staging the trigger?

This. I started doing that after reading McGivern's book. Another thing from his book that helped a great deal was to focus on the release of the double action trigger as much as the pull during dry fire practice, i.e., keeping the sights aligned through the release, too. That alone will improve your accuracy a lot.

And, like I said earlier, if you're doing it right, you will develop a blister, then a callus. When you have a nicely callused trigger finger, you will have put in enough time to have a really good double action trigger pull.

I started doing that after reading McGivern's book. Another thing from his book that helped a great deal was to focus on the release of the double action trigger as much as the pull during dry fire practice, i.e., keeping the sights aligned through the release, too. That alone will improve your accuracy a lot.

With mastery of an interrupted trigger pull, there is no need to break your shooting grip (to thumb the hammer). It's very fast, but still very deliberate.


It does require a serious commitment to training.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but you don't seem like a very good shot.

So you probably shouldn't coach shooting.




Dave

BS. reading a book ain't gonna learn ya how to shoot. Find a coach that can shoot and start going to range with a 5 gallon bucket of your ammo and SHOOT, and shoot, and shoot, and shoot,... repeat as necessary.

Ain't cheap !!! $$$$$$$$$$$

Good Double-Action Revolver Shooting

A recent internet discussion tried to establish a pat set of instructions for good DA revolver work. This got me to thinking (always a dangerous thing). While the objectives of good DA revolver work are widely known, there can be no ‘pat’ set of instructions that will work for all shooters. The foundation element of good DA revolver work is the grip, and you simply cannot tell someone how to do that. The variables of hand size, hand strength and handgun grips make it an individual journey, which can be made easier by a shooting coach that knows his stuff. Once that is accomplished, the objective is to send the shot away with as little disturbance as possible to the sight picture.

I learned DA shooting in an environment where they shoved you a rack-grade, fixed sight S&W and your need for a paycheck served as incentive to keep your scores above 70% for sixteen weeks. Some of us were shooters before we arrived and in short order we were getting at least some 9’s and X’s on a B27 from 50 yards. We didn’t bitch about the trigger; it wouldn’t have been well received. We simply paid attention to what the R/O said and applied ourselves to the task. By the third month, several of us were crowding a Distinguished pin. So don’t tell me it can’t be done and done very well, with stock revolvers.

A couple of years later, I learned some things from an old armorer and started doing DA action jobs- but not on cop guns. I soon learned what worked and what didn’t. Wheelguns were hot then and regular guys all wanted a PPC trigger for 40 bucks.

You can lose reliability real quick by over-lightening either the mainspring or the trigger return spring. You can in fact make the action so sluggish that a really fast shooter can ‘outrun’ it. Stick with stock mainsprings, resist the urge to back that screw out too much and never cut more than one coil off the stock S&W return spring. Leave the single-action sear alone. The rest is polishing the moving components that comprise the DA stroke and you can get a very nice, reliable trigger that will never cause a misfire or retard the trigger reset.

There’s defensive shooting, competition shooting and exhibition shooting.

There’s a time to shoot fast and a time to shoot slow. Some guys ‘stage’ a DA trigger for precise shooting and pull it straight through quick for close work. That works pretty well for me. All things being equal, a smooth, reliable action won’t make you shoot any worse. But no matter how good you make a DA trigger, it will never replace an ingrained application of the basics, a will to excel and a lot of practice with a single purpose of making every shot go exactly where you intend it to go. You get those things down and you’ll be shooting so well you won’t need a crutch.

They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.

A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.

If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action.

Double action revolvers are my favorite handguns, but I've never really focused hard on shooting them double action until a couple of years ago. My trigger control has improved but controlling the revolver is more difficult. Unless the grip is made of soft rubber like a Hogue monogrip or the old Lett grips that Ruger used to put on their GP100, I can't seem to control the squirm. With any wooden grip (except the huge old S&W target grips) the gun rotates clockwise (looking down at it) and jumps up in my fist incrementally. This, of course, causes my second shot to strike a different POI. I've tried gripping harder with different fingers and I've tried several different grips to no avail. I've considered getting full checkered wood grips from Herretts, but that's quite an investment. I'd rather improve my technique.

I really want to be able to use wood grips on my favorite Smiths, can anyone help? Probably I should mention that I have relatively small hands, so I can't use grips that cover the backstrap.

Nice targets posted above but strongly think they were slow fire DA shooting ie: stacking the trigger.

Try PPC. Our club league first stage was 12 shots/6 seconds and that's with a reload.

Again, nice targets, Sir.

Balance a coin on the ribe on the barrel. Try to work the trigger and keep the coin on top. Sooner or later you will get tired of picking the coin up and learn to handle the DA pull.

Not to hi-jack but don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I can't hit chit firing my P226 40 cal in double action mode, if I had to yank that pistol and fire it, the damn target best be at arms length for me to hit it.

May as well punch the sombitch and avoid the paperwork.

This is why I like to carry 1911's, capacity notwithstanding, thumb that hammer safety down and a really nice trigger pull awaits.

Internet Angst Abounds over the dreaded ‘transition’ from DA to SA, but if I can learn it so can you. Ernest Langdon, the Bruce Lee of DA/SA autos, has a clear, concise trio of videos to help you along.


http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/the-benefits-and-proficient-use-of-the-dasa-autopistol/

I've gotten to shoot a Reeves Junkin Python...that was about as slick a DA as it gets...

I really want to be able to use wood grips on my favorite Smiths, can anyone help? Probably I should mention that I have relatively small hands, so I can't use grips that cover the backstrap.

Herrett's Shooting Star is a damn good DA grip for folks with medium size hands.
http://herrettstocks.com/cshtstar.htm

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I have a couple of Smiths that the double action is real smooth, but I find myself shooting them like a single action, without thinking. It is just too damn built in to hammer it back. miles

Unless the grip is made of soft rubber like a Hogue monogrip or the old Lett grips that Ruger used to put on their GP100, I can't seem to control the squirm.

Unless the grip is made of soft rubber like a Hogue monogrip or the old Lett grips that Ruger used to put on their GP100, I can't seem to control the squirm.

Take a look here when you get a chance.

I too, think that I shouldn't need custom grips to shoot decently in double action. I keep thinking, "I must be doing something wrong."

I'm right handed. Right thumb is down against my middle finger tip. Left thumb is right on top of my right, thumb print on thumb nail. Recoil hump down low against the web of my hand, gun pretty well lined up with my forearm, trigger on the first digit.

Everything feels perfectly secure while dry firing, but under recoil the grip jumps down in my hand and rotates clockwise in my hand, both just a trifle but enough to no longer be a solid grip. This change also causes my finger to engage the trigger at a different point.

Could be that I'm not gripping hard enough, but even when I focus on that it doesn't seem to help.

What do you groups look like @ 7 yds?Dave

I have several S&W revolvers, but the ones I'm using to learn DA shooting are a 4" square butt M19 and a 4" round butt M620, which is a half lug 686+. I also have a couple of GP100s, both 4".

I have Hogue finger groove grips for the 620 that work ok for traction but are ugly and extend too far below the bottom of the frame. I love revolvers with wood grips so I've tried grips from Altamont and something similar to Jordan Troopers. I have an old set of S&W grips for the 19 that seem like a good fit for my hand, look something like Ropers. They are smaller than the huge target grips from the 80s. The GPs have the old compact Letts grips. These fit my hand wonderfully and don't squirm at all. The problem is, the Rugers ar okay but I love my Smiths and want to be able to shoot them well.

I appreciate all the good ideas about improving my trigger control and I intend to put them to use. But I believe that this squirming problem is limiting my progress since it causes the gun to shift in my hand just a bit at each recoil.

I don't cast, but I do reload.